Going back for orthodontics late 30s

Started by 011110
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
0

011110

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Hi all!

I have been a dentist for 15 years. I mainly practice orthodontics and make 300k, and I have been able to get to about 1 million in my retirement accounts. I love ortho, it’s my passion. I got accepted to a 2 year paid ortho program. I’ll have no debt and my retirement is pretty much set. Do I take the acceptance or just continue what I am doing to retire?
 
011110 said:
Hi all!

I have been a dentist for 15 years. I mainly practice orthodontics and make 300k, and I have been able to get to about 1 million in my retirement accounts. I love ortho, it’s my passion. I got accepted to a 2 year paid ortho program. I’ll have no debt and my retirement is pretty much set. Do I take the acceptance or just continue what I am doing to retire?
Click to expand...
Depends. Do you own your own private practice now? If you attend the paid ortho residency (well done. I went to a paid residency) ... are you going to buy or start your own ortho practice? In saturated areas .... there is so much competition for patients. Lots of Dental Corps offering ortho services. Or ... are you wanting to work at several practices to get a full schedule? If so .... realize that working for a Dent Corp is not for the faint of heart. I owned my private ortho practices (two) for 25-26 years. Sold out. And then decided to go the Corp route. It was not easy. Especially if you were the boss for so long.

So. It it depends on how you want to practice ortho.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
So much of this depends on what your goals are in life. If your goal is to enjoy work every day and be an orthodontist, do it!

If your goal is to cut back your days, live a more balanced life, have the freedom to do whatever you want. Maybe retire earlier or with more money, you can do that, too.

Look at this math.

Let’s say you’re 41 years old. If you made $300,000 per year for the next 3 years (the years you’d be pursuing residency). After tax that is roughly $221,000 per year of take home money. If you lived off of $65k of that and invested $156,000 per year into the S&P 500 and got the average (10%) return at the end of those 3 years you would have $543,000 extra in the S&P500. If you never invested a single penny again and just let that money grow, at 65 it would grow to $4.4 million extra dollars in addition to the growth your current savings will have. Does that mean anything to you? Is that worth giving up to you? Because you can’t get those three years back. Maybe you won’t need that money. Just something to consider.

If it were me, I’m not as passionate about ortho (or my career) as you, so I would just continue the course and head off into the sunset in a few years.

You’re set up to go whichever route you want.

Edit: *just realized you got into a two year program. I’m not doing the math again, but the principle still applies*
 
2TH MVR said:
Depends. Do you own your own private practice now? If you attend the paid ortho residency (well done. I went to a paid residency) ... are you going to buy or start your own ortho practice? In saturated areas .... there is so much competition for patients. Lots of Dental Corps offering ortho services. Or ... are you wanting to work at several practices to get a full schedule? If so .... realize that working for a Dent Corp is not for the faint of heart. I owned my private ortho practices (two) for 25-26 years. Sold out. And then decided to go the Corp route. It was not easy. Especially if you were the boss for so long.

So. It it depends on how you want to practice ortho.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I’m an associate now for a few offices where I do the ortho. I guess it’s more of a pride thing to have the certification you know? Also maybe open up my own office too
 
Pablo Sanchez said:
So much of this depends on what your goals are in life. If your goal is to enjoy work every day and be an orthodontist, do it!

If your goal is to cut back your days, live a more balanced life, have the freedom to do whatever you want. Maybe retire earlier or with more money, you can do that, too.

Look at this math.

Let’s say you’re 41 years old. If you made $300,000 per year for the next 3 years (the years you’d be pursuing residency). After tax that is roughly $221,000 per year of take home money. If you lived off of $65k of that and invested $156,000 per year into the S&P 500 and got the average (10%) return at the end of those 3 years you would have $543,000 extra in the S&P500. If you never invested a single penny again and just let that money grow, at 65 it would grow to $4.4 million extra dollars in addition to the growth your current savings will have. Does that mean anything to you? Is that worth giving up to you? Because you can’t get those three years back. Maybe you won’t need that money. Just something to consider.

If it were me, I’m not as passionate about ortho (or my career) as you, so I would just continue the course and head off into the sunset in a few years.

You’re set up to go whichever route you want.

Edit: *just realized you got into a two year program. I’m not doing the math again, but the principle still applies*
Click to expand...
Thanks! Yea it’s more of a passion thing then a financial thing at this time. I’m glad I have my retirement set, but the financial may a wash
 
011110 said:
Thanks, I’m an associate now for a few offices where I do the ortho. I guess it’s more of a pride thing to have the certification you know? Also maybe open up my own office too
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, what percentage of your work load is doing ortho?
 
If you're not trolling us then yes, take the spot. Debt free + significant retirement savings, you're ahead of the game. Life is not always about the money. I do enjoy being a specialist. It's an entirely different process of thinking when you look at a case. I particularly like seeing how we can influence the skeleton - either with orthopedic movements during growth or via orthognathic surgery as an adult. We also see a lot of the hard AF cases. Again, it's not always about the money with these cases but more the challenge of fixing them and knowing you played a part in their daily life and function.
 
011110 said:
100%, I stopped doing GP work
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity if you're already doing 100% ortho, why not just skip residency and continue doing that? I feel like you could save 2 years and continue to do what you love and make really good income.
 
Bentley242 said:
Out of curiosity if you're already doing 100% ortho, why not just skip residency and continue doing that? I feel like you could save 2 years and continue to do what you love and make really good income.
Click to expand...
Not OP, but as a specialist you can charge more and have more protection from the board/lawsuits. That alone makes the investment worthwhile. Residency would also provide skills to take on more complicated cases.

Assuming OP is an associate, it’d also be difficult to find another job that will allow them to do 100% ortho as a GP.
 
niko472 said:
Not OP, but as a specialist you can charge more and have more protection from the board/lawsuits.
Click to expand...
From what I've seen, it's the opposite. Orthodontists charge less/GDs and pediatric dentists who do orthodontics are able to charge more because it's like shooting fish in a barrel (no competition with patient pool). I know a pediatric dentist who charges $8,000 per case in a city's suburb, where orthodontists charge $6,000 per case. Also, in the area I am the person who does the most orthodontics, it isn't even an orthodontist... They are a pediatric dentist, and the orthodontists in the area see a fraction of the patients this pediatric dentist sees. I also know orthodontists who hire GDs and train them to do orthodontics, and that's all they do. Also, DSOs that hired orthodontists to train the GDs how to do orthodontics and then fire the orthodontists because the GDs could do it instead.

As far as malpractice goes, you would still be liable whether you're a GD or an orthodontist.

I don't think this OP needs to specialize given their situation.
 
Last edited:
  • Dislike
Reactions: 702
Bentley242 said:
From what I've seen, it's the opposite. Orthodontists charge less/GDs and pediatric dentists who do orthodontics are able to charge more because it's like shooting fish in a barrel (no competition with patient pool). I know a pediatric dentist who charges $8,000 per case in a city's suburb, where orthodontists charge $6,000 per case. Also, in the area I am the person who does the most orthodontics, it isn't even an orthodontist... They are a pediatric dentist, and the orthodontists in the area see a fraction of the patients this pediatric dentist sees. I also know orthodontists who hire GDs and train them to do orthodontics, and that's all they do. Also, DSOs that hired orthodontists to train the GDs how to do orthodontics and then fire the orthodontists because the GDs could do it instead.

As far as malpractice goes, you would still be liable whether you're a GD or an orthodontist.

I don't think this OP needs to specialize given their situation.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I guess it depends on what state OP is in. Sounds like you’re in Utah or California? I’d stay away too. DSOs do the same thing with endo and OS.

For any lawsuit/board complaint ‘why didn’t you refer’ will always be brought up. Complications happen, but they’re more likely to be forgiven/punishment less harsh when a doctor has a residency to back up why they took on the case. I’ve seen doctors’ ability to do xyz procedure be taken away because they didn’t have the CEs/education to back up why they’re doing treatment. A GP got reprimanded over an ortho case that resulted in minor root resorption - that same case would’ve gone nowhere had it been completed by an ortho.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 702
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

O
Georgia School of Orthodontics
Replies
28
Views
6K
charlestweed
charlestweed
P
Ortho programs known for strong training in adult orthodontics?
Replies
0
Views
1K
perioapplicant2026
P
P
Peds dental resident in US, going back to Canada
Replies
0
Views
746
Parvaz 777
P
0
The benefits of orthodontics residency
Replies
21
Views
4K
gryffindor
G
K
second guessing orthodontics
Replies
41
Views
9K
JacquesVallee
JacquesVallee