Going directly into teaching after residency?

[ibarne242]

I'm a fm resident. I always wanted to be a pcp but lately have been feeling like teaching is my true calling. But I don't want to simply render my degree worthless by going into teaching. I was wondering how plausible it is to land a teaching job at a medical school right after one finishes residency.

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[FrustratedFamDoc]

In residency, I always appreciated the guidance from those who had a previous career in private practice prior to getting in to academics. I felt like the breadth of their real world knowledge was benefitted from their time in PP.

My advice would be to hone your skills with a few years of non-academia and then you'll be better equipped to truly teach.

 

[Lurts]

But I don't want to simply render my degree worthless by going into teaching.

I guess I don’t understand.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

In residency, I always appreciated the guidance from those who had a previous career in private practice prior to getting in to academics. I felt like the breadth of their real world knowledge was benefitted from their time in PP.

My advice would be to hone your skills with a few years of non-academia and then you'll be better equipped to truly teach.

Yeah I've always been very suspicious of those who go straight from residency to a teaching attending job.

 

[Fatalis]

I'm a fm resident. I always wanted to be a pcp but lately have been feeling like teaching is my true calling. But I don't want to simply render my degree worthless by going into teaching. I was wondering how plausible it is to land a teaching job at a medical school right after one finishes residency.

As someone who was wanting to go into teaching after residency I am glad I didn’t (although I hate my current job), the amount you learn flying solo is invaluable and I feel like once I do enter academics I can bring something from the table.... really tho being fresh from residency what experience can you bring residence except a study you read from nejm or a concept you got from Uworld/AAFP

 

[SXMMD]

I am a recent grad, two of my attendings were like this.

One was 5 years out of residency when I started, went directly into academics. To summarize what it was like under them, patient is coding, they are standing outside of the room, surgeon who was there placing central line at the time asks "where is your attending? Who is running this code?". My attending? Whips out the phone and pretends to be talking to someone and backs up about 50 feet from the room.

That's how I ended up running my first code solo.

The other attending graduated the year I started. 3 years later when this attending rounded we consulted based on how scared this attending was to be a doctor instead of actual need for a consult. "Mild aki? Better get nephro, what if it's lupus and we are missing something!" "Bowel regimen in cva patient? Better ask neuro, I read a case report from 1977 once that pooping too hard caused stroke in a patient like this!"

Needless to say these attendings were not respected by anyone in the program or wider medical community all that much.

I was recruited to join the program out of residency as faculty, I declined. Love the idea of returning one day, but definitely echo the sentiments in the thread- to be credible you have to stand on your own 2 feet for a while. Safety net residency to safety net attending practice doesn't make for a skilled teacher.

Take with a grain of salt. My N=2 after all.

 

[scharnhorst]

I'm even suspicious of new attendings in academic setting
They acted so high and mighty but reality is that they knew less than many good PGY 3 residents esp when it came to complicated patients , they referred everyone as they had no real life experience

 

[Bacchus]

I went into academics right out of residency (4 years now). At our community site I precept residents. Coming from another program made it easier as did I was PGY3+1d and the oldest resident was PGY2+1dIntoPGY3

 

[Dr Tapatio]

A lot of people ragging on this guy and suggesting he'd be a subpar attending/teacher

OP, if you think teaching is for you, you can start slowly and grow from there. Maybe you can get a few medical students (osteo, carib) to rotate with you while you're in clinic. Maybe you can teach an anatomy or human biology class at a community college. You don't have to start straight in academia. It's good to develop your skills as a clinician and a teacher

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

A lot of people ragging on this guy and suggesting he'd be a subpar attending/teacher

OP, if you think teaching is for you, you can start slowly and grow from there. Maybe you can get a few medical students (osteo, carib) to rotate with you while you're in clinic. Maybe you can teach an anatomy or human biology class at a community college. You don't have to start straight in academia. It's good to develop your skills as a clinician and a teacher

No we're not. We're saying exactly what you're saying.

 

[yeasports]

A lot of people ragging on this guy and suggesting he'd be a subpar attending/teacher

OP, if you think teaching is for you, you can start slowly and grow from there. Maybe you can get a few medical students (osteo, carib) to rotate with you while you're in clinic. Maybe you can teach an anatomy or human biology class at a community college. You don't have to start straight in academia. It's good to develop your skills as a clinician and a teacher

What has been your experience teaching residents; did you start soon after residency? Do you or are you considering teaching at a community college? I am trying to understand your insight.

 

[Dr Tapatio]

What has been your experience teaching residents; did you start soon after residency? Do you or are you considering teaching at a community college? I am trying to understand your insight.

That kind of ****ty aggressive attitude must win you a lot of friends

No we're not. We're saying exactly what you're saying.

A lot is not everyone. You don't need to take it personally

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

That kind of ****ty aggressive attitude must win you a lot of friends


A lot is not everyone. You don't need to take it personally

If you think that's an aggressive attitude, I don't know what to tell you.

Your first post was #9.

OP was #1.

#2 talked about appreciating those who had done PP before teaching

#3 asked a question about a degree being worthless (quote from the OP)

#4 was me expressing concern about those who go straight from residency to teaching residents full time

#5 was someone who wanted to go into teaching but decided to practice for a few years and saying they are glad they did

#6 gave their personal experience with 2 attendings who did go straight into teaching with less than stellar results.

#7 expressed that new attendings into a new program tended to be less sure of themselves so consulted less

#8 was someone who did exactly what the OP was asking.

So tell me, who was ragging on the OP here?

 

[yeasports]

This is an anonymous forum, sorry if you feel aggression. There are a lot of attendings here with years of experience trying to help the op. While suggestions may be helpful, understanding why you are suggesting helps much more, see below:

A lot of people ragging on this guy and suggesting he'd be a subpar attending/teacher
I don't see people ragging on the op can you give an example?

OP, if you think teaching is for you, you can start slowly and grow from there. Can you clarify this? Do you mean Teach part-time only or work as a physician and also teach part time? If so separately or combined?

Maybe you can get a few medical students (osteo, carib) to rotate with you while you're in clinic. So why specifically osteo or carib? Will they help you learn how to teach? Do they have some knowledge that can help the op? What is it that can bridge teaching them into to teaching at a medical school? This insight could really help the op.

Maybe you can teach an anatomy or human biology class at a community college. Why community college why not college, or high school? I am guessing teaching at a community college one would be teaching intro into anatomy or something on that level. Does this help refine skills? Do community college students mirror medical students?

You don't have to start straight in academia. It's good to develop your skills as a clinician and a teacher When you say its "good" do you have an example you have seen indicating this? That could really help the op. Are you saying don't start in academia and get skills as a teacher and physician first? That seems to the consensus thus far.

 

[Dr Tapatio]

If you think that's an aggressive attitude, I don't know what to tell you.

So tell me, who was ragging on the OP here?

Then don't tell me anything? It wasn't directed at you, but it's the typical "I'm attending. Therefore, I know everything." It's an old fallacy being used called "appeal to authority." The same thing is done when you're pre-med by the med student. The intern to the med student. The resident to the intern, etc. Come up with a good argument instead of "I know because I know." You have no idea of how strong or weak their training in residency is or if they can or cannot teach. Your great contribution to this thread has been that you're suspicious of those that went straight to academia. Good for you? Doesn't say anything about their unique circumstances. At least I suggest a method to follow their dreams rather than "forget it. you suck. come back in many years"

In specific, post #6 is ragging on OP. Again, no insight into what OP knows. He just generalized about attendings that aren't respected. You act like we can't read in between the lines

 

[deleted87716]

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Then don't tell me anything? It wasn't directed at you, but it's the typical "I'm attending. Therefore, I know everything." It's an old fallacy being used called "appeal to authority." The same thing is done when you're pre-med by the med student. The intern to the med student. The resident to the intern, etc. Come up with a good argument instead of "I know because I know." You have no idea of how strong or weak their training in residency is or if they can or cannot teach. Your great contribution to this thread has been that you're suspicious of those that went straight to academia. Good for you? Doesn't say anything about their unique circumstances. At least I suggest a method to follow their dreams rather than "forget it. you suck. come back in many years"

In specific, post #6 is ragging on OP. Again, no insight into what OP knows. He just generalized about attendings that aren't respected. You act like we can't read in between the lines

What on Earth are you talking about?

Everyone in this thread has been very clear that these are our opinions. No one has said outright that its impossible, never a good idea, or anything in between. We've also never pulled any authority into this that I can see. If I'm wrong, feel free to point out where that happened. We don't have to prove our opinions. I don't like butterscotch. I'm not saying butterscotch is inherently bad or that no one should want to eat butterscotch and my status has nothing to do with my feelings about butterscotch. I'm just saying that I don't like butterscotch. I can't prove that its bad.

This is no different. Most of us here feel that getting real world experience makes for a better teacher. This isn't a hard fact nor am I aware of any evidence that supports this statement. Rather, we have either a) had attendings that did this and were subpar and/or b) realized how much most of us learned those first few years out of residency that would be very valuable in a teaching attending. Our personal experiences suggest to us that getting experience is a good thing, nothing more than that.

As for that 6th post, that's ragging on 2 subpar attendings that person had. He/she doesn't even mention the OP. And no one is putting anything for you to read between the lines. Just because 2 attendings straight out of residency weren't good doesn't mean the OP couldn't be. That poster even says to take that whole post with a grain of salt because it is one person's experience. Its a cautionary tale.

 

[SXMMD]

Then don't tell me anything? It wasn't directed at you, but it's the typical "I'm attending. Therefore, I know everything." It's an old fallacy being used called "appeal to authority." The same thing is done when you're pre-med by the med student. The intern to the med student. The resident to the intern, etc. Come up with a good argument instead of "I know because I know." You have no idea of how strong or weak their training in residency is or if they can or cannot teach. Your great contribution to this thread has been that you're suspicious of those that went straight to academia. Good for you? Doesn't say anything about their unique circumstances. At least I suggest a method to follow their dreams rather than "forget it. you suck. come back in many years"

In specific, post #6 is ragging on OP. Again, no insight into what OP knows. He just generalized about attendings that aren't respected. You act like we can't read in between the lines

Heyyyy that's me!

I generalized about attendings who were not respected because they were well known to do shoddy work by leaning on residents (who they were charged to teach) and consultants who they handed off liability to. The message was that they never learned to stand behind their own medical decisions as attendings which lead to them being subpar doctors and teachers... resulting in lack of respect globally in the community. I thought I was pretty clear about the objective reasons why that route didn't work for those two attendings, I don't see how that was a "I'm the attending just listen to me and stop talking" directive.

Is it 100% black and white? No, some people come out of residency and are fantastic teachers. That wasn't my experience and it echos the experience of others in this thread. Asking for the advice of people with experience in a matter isn't an appeal to authority fallacy. This info is relevant for the op who can take this info and process how they want to approach their career development.

Therefore, I left a disclaimer in my last line. You should read it. And see a counselor probably, you're super sensitive.

Also tapatio sucks, I'll take cholula thanks

 

[Bacchus]

Either zip up or go home please.

 

[Bacchus]

If you think that's an aggressive attitude, I don't know what to tell you.

Your first post was #9.

OP was #1.

#2 talked about appreciating those who had done PP before teaching

#3 asked a question about a degree being worthless (quote from the OP)

#4 was me expressing concern about those who go straight from residency to teaching residents full time

#5 was someone who wanted to go into teaching but decided to practice for a few years and saying they are glad they did

#6 gave their personal experience with 2 attendings who did go straight into teaching with less than stellar results.

#7 expressed that new attendings into a new program tended to be less sure of themselves so consulted less

#8 was someone who did exactly what the OP was asking.

So tell me, who was ragging on the OP here?

#8 FTW 😉

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

#8 FTW 😉

Brown-noser!