Going for MD after Humanities PHD

[james1988]

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In addition to wanting to go to medical school, I really want to pursue a PhD in either English or Philosophy. Are there any MD/PhD programs that combine a humanities PhD with an MD? Would med schools think I'm a crazy and confused individual if I apply with a PhD in english or philosophy? Is this a bad idea?

 

[87138]

First question I and many others along the way will ask you: What do you plan to do with these two degrees?

 

[james1988]

First question I and many others along the way will ask you: What do you plan to do with these two degrees?

MD: Practice Medicine

PhD: I would pursue this degree primarily for its inherent educational value, and am not sure if there is anything I would "do" with it, at least in the sense that you mean it. Perhaps I would teach, but the main value would lie in the knowledge and understanding that the PhD would confer.

 

[iA-MD2013]

...what's the point?

 

[dArroway]

In addition to wanting to go to medical school, I really want to pursue a PhD in either English or Philosophy. Are there any MD/PhD programs that combine a humanities PhD with an MD? Would med schools think I'm a crazy and confused individual if I apply with a PhD in english or philosophy? Is this a bad idea?

MD/PHD programs are for medical scientists training. Not to read poetry and anatomy

 

[dArroway]

MD/PHD programs are for medical scientists training. Not to read poetry and anatomy

However, it does sound like a ballin' idea

 

[Salsa45]

You don't need a Ph. D to have a hobby.

 

[DoctorDreamer]

There is a fully funded MD/PhD program at UTMB in the Medical Humanities. Look into it.

 

[russellfx]

You don't need a Ph. D to have a hobby.

qft

 

[MarathonsRcool]

if getting that phd will make you happy, then by all means..do it. but i dont think it will be very useful, occupationally wise in a clinical setting. md/phd in a science is obviously more relevant, md/mba may land you a spot as chief of staff, md/mph in health admin may land you a chief position as well, but i dont see a phd in humanities helping you in advancing your career. but do it if thats what makes you happy.

 

[BluePhoenix]

You really ought to look into the issues dealing with getting a humanities PhD. They often take a significant amount of time (7+) and unlike the science doctorate programs, they often come with little to no funding and often require students to teach a good amount of classes (which of course means the programs take even longer to finish). Doing a PhD in humanities for your own enjoyment with no real intent to actually use the degree is a waste of time and money...especially if you want to be an MD and actually practice that. Getting a PhD in humanities, an MD and finishing a residency would take like 14 years and result in a massive amount of debt. Why not just join a book club or take advanced humanity courses at the local university? Most upper level courses aren't really teaching you so much as you're just focusing on the material and doing the work yourself...you're paying for the degree.

 

[edfig99]

look at the MeSH program at Pritzker http://pritzker.uchicago.edu/jointdegrees/combined/mdphd.shtml

I know a few MDs with PhDs in the humanities -- but they weren't pursued at the same time. Most got the PhD first. One is a renowned expert in the area of narrative medicine (her PhD was in English I believe) Others have gone on to become hospital ethicists. other pursue interests in literature and medicine, creative writing, medical educators... some just do patient care and others did patient care for a little bit, and gave it up altogether to pursue other areas of interest.

 

[neulite]

Can sort of relate here. Finishing my PhD in Experimental Psychology before pursuing MD. Many would dispute the scientific aspects of psychology but I'm getting an emphasis in behavioral neuroscience. But I can relate--I can't see the animal research I do (zebrafish and rodents) being directly amenable to my life as a doctor (hopefully) later on. I can't say getting the non-science PhD first was my plan all along but I realized I wanted to pursue the MD after my clinical experience shortly before grad school and just stuck with this path for personal reasons like yourself.

And here I am getting my tuition paid for and receiving a stipend as well. The only thing is the time and investment you are willing to put in I guess. I love research but I also know I will love medicine from my earlier experiences and degree. I guess the downside is I'm now 28 but I don't see any rush and I think you should go at your own pace. Just make sure it's what you want to do.

 

[YanksFan02]

I hear ya. I majored in philosophy and religion in undergrad, and got a masters before starting school. I would have loved a PhD and to do some writing/research on the side.

I am told there is one school in California - I don't remember which but Stanford rings a bell - offering an MD along with a PhD in religion. The only catch is that it's a focused program on the connection between belief and the brain, so you have to commit to going into neurology or psychiatry.

 

[OncDoc19]

if getting that phd will make you happy, then by all means..do it. but i dont think it will be very useful, occupationally wise in a clinical setting. md/phd in a science is obviously more relevant, md/mba may land you a spot as chief of staff, md/mph in health admin may land you a chief position as well, but i dont see a phd in humanities helping you in advancing your career. but do it if thats what makes you happy.

I really must take issue with a lot of the mis-information being presented in this thread. I applied this year to get an MD/PhD in the humanities (history of medicine in specific) and have been accepted by Penn, UCLA and Wisconsin all with full MSTP funding. There definitely are programs out there that will support an MD/PhD in the humanities, however you need to have a better reason than just "because I want one". UCLA in specific currently has a student doing philosophy. You can PM me if you want more info about the application process and what it takes to be noticed among all the other science applicants. My point is that it is possible to do this, however barriers do exist.

 

[littlealex]

You don't need a Ph. D to have a hobby.

I agree. Can't you just read/write on your own time?

 

[GoldShadow]

I'm going to echo the "what's the point?"ers.

 

[TarHeel55]

Yes, there is a lot of misinformation here.

Every reputable doctoral program in the humanities provides student funding, in the form of a tuition wavier and health insurance for the duration of the program, and a living stipend for at least 2 to 3 years. True, most programs require doctoral students to teach. However, teaching is not merely a way for humanities graduate students to earn money for living expenses. It an integral part of professional development in the humanities, because nearly all academics in the humanities regularly devote time to classroom teaching, even at the highest-ranked research institutions.

MD/PhDs in the humanities frequently conduct research on the ethical, social, and legal aspects of clinical medicine and emerging technologies. Entire journals are devoted to publications in these areas. NEJM and JAMA also frequently publish on these topics.

OP, in addition to the great combined MD/PhD programs mentioned above, you might also want to consider medical schools that offer combined MD/MA programs in bioethics. Case Western Reserve, Pittsburgh, and Northwestern come to mind. Doing the MA first may help clarify for you whether you want and need to pursue the PhD.

I did a humanities PhD first. Thrilled to be heading to medical school next year. Please PM me if you'd like to talk more.

 

[OncDoc19]

I'm going to echo the "what's the point?"ers.

The point is that not all problems in medicine/clinical practice can be addressed by laboratory research.

 

[LizzyM]

When I needed surgery, I picked a surgeon with a PhD in philosophy with an emphasis on professional ethics in medicine. 😀 I'm not joking.

Thanks to OneDoc & Tarheel & edfig for the good information.

 

[UFMed]

MD: Practice Medicine

PhD: I would pursue this degree primarily for its inherent educational value, and am not sure if there is anything I would "do" with it, at least in the sense that you mean it. Perhaps I would teach, but the main value would lie in the knowledge and understanding that the PhD would confer.

I think medical schools will be confused as to why you're opting to do both at the same time. It may be safer to do them separately if you really think a PhD is going to enrich your life. Not that I think it will as far as learning/practicing medicine...
Humanities/philosophy takes a lot of time and research (thesis writing, teaching during school, etc) which may not necessarily translate into a "better" understanding or enjoyment of life or ethics. And although you may want to be that doctor with an Ethics or Humanities degree- that doesn't necessarily guarantee you are or will be more humanitarian or better skilled to handled disease treatment.
If practicing medicine is what you really want to do then focus on getting into medical school (first things first). After that beast has been tackled, and you're a few years older and wiser (with possibly a family, career, business, committment) and/or have changed your mind with gained new perspectives, you can always go forward and get the PhD in Humanities. You'll most likely find that the attraction to humanities, arts and philosophy can be easily appreciated as a hobby- as a way to decompress from the pressures of medical education and practice.
For now I think it would be better not to become the jack of trades and the master of none.

 

[Gut Shot]

PhD: I would pursue this degree primarily for its inherent educational value, and am not sure if there is anything I would "do" with it, at least in the sense that you mean it. Perhaps I would teach, but the main value would lie in the knowledge and understanding that the PhD would confer.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!

I mean, go for it.

 

[Wylde]

It WOULD be cool to get a PhD in philosophy, it's a really interesting subject.

Theres not really a market for PhDs in philosophy though, except being a professor.

 

[neulite]

It WOULD be cool to get a PhD in philosophy, it's a really interesting subject.

Theres not really a market for PhDs in philosophy though, except being a professor.

Ignoring the irony of it being a Doctor of Philosophy.

 

[xanthines]

While I think your thoughts are quite noble, you need to be sure that you know what you're getting into. A PhD in the humanities takes a long time. So does med school + residency. If you know in core of your heart and soul that a PhD in English would make you happy AND you're OK with being a bit older than most people in med school, I'd say go for it. Frankly, I think studying literature hardcore like that will probably make you a better doctor in the long run. Maybe not a better med student...

At least it will give you something interesting to talk about in interviews. Maybe. 🙂

-X

 

[Gut Shot]

In addition to wanting to go to medical school, I really want to pursue a PhD in either English or Philosophy. Are there any MD/PhD programs that combine a humanities PhD with an MD? Would med schools think I'm a crazy and confused individual if I apply with a PhD in english or philosophy? Is this a bad idea?

Now that my shock has worn off, seriously, this is one of the worst ideas ever expressed on this forum. If you had any idea what getting a PhD is like, you would run screaming into med school. You're proposing to swat a fly with a Buick, a process that will suck your will to live while you wallow in years of abject poverty. Life seems long in your early 20's, but trust me, when you're in your mid-30's and still training it takes on a slightly different hue. Living in another one bedroom shoebox apartment with six figures in debt and zero retirement savings isn't fun. Don't do it.

Gut Shot, PhD -> MD

 

[bcat85]

It seems a little... silly... but by all means go for it. my dad got a J.D. and is about 9 credits short of a phd in philosophy. Now, this is very different from medicine because M.D.'s have to do that.. you know.. 3-7 year residency/fellowship. Do what you want though, but if it were me I would not do that.

 

[LizzyM]

Living in another one bedroom shoebox apartment with six figures in debt and zero retirement savings isn't fun.

But the MSTP programs mentioned above will cover all tuition and include a stipend. Does that change the equation?

 

[87138]

But the MSTP programs mentioned above will cover all tuition and include a stipend. Does that change the equation?

The OP has expressed no interest in pursuing an MSTP program, so in this instance, no.

 

[Gut Shot]

But the MSTP programs mentioned above will cover all tuition and include a stipend. Does that change the equation?

For some folks. There is a minority of people who will thrive in the MD/PhD, and go on to great things. The key word is minority, as in small minority. Most people bail and head for the $$$ as soon as they're done. Medicine is growing ever more complex with an astonishing speed; it's practically impossible to conduct meaningful research and stay clinically competent today. Ten years from now is going to be even worse.

 

[LizzyM]

The OP has expressed no interest in pursuing an MSTP program, so in this instance, no.

Has the OP made any statement other than his original post? Do you realize that there are MSTP programs that offer a PhD in the humanities?

I disagree, too with the sentiment that one cannot conduct meaningful research and be a competent clinician. There are thousands of academic physicians whose very lives contradict that opinion.

 

[james1988]

Has the OP made any statement other than his original post? Do you realize that there are MSTP programs that offer a PhD in the humanities?

I disagree, too with the sentiment that one cannot conduct meaningful research and be a competent clinician. There are thousands of academic physicians whose very lives contradict that opinion.

I'm assuming that by MSTP you mean a program that would allow me to get both degrees at the same time. While this would be great, are there any programs that allow a medical student to pursue a PhD in English or Philosophy? I'm aware that there are medical science training programs that will allow you go get a PhD in some sort of advanced scientific field or even medical ethics, but what about English or Philosophy?

 

[LizzyM]

I'm assuming that by MSTP you mean a program that would allow me to get both degrees at the same time. While this would be great, are there any programs that allow a medical student to pursue a PhD in English or Philosophy? I'm aware that there are medical science training programs that will allow you go get a PhD in some sort of advanced scientific field or even medical ethics, but what about English or Philosophy?

See http://www.physicianscientists.org/Training_Programs/SSH/SSH_University_of_Pennsylvania.html

no doubt there are others to including the MeSH program at U Chicago.

 

[OncDoc19]

I'm assuming that by MSTP you mean a program that would allow me to get both degrees at the same time. While this would be great, are there any programs that allow a medical student to pursue a PhD in English or Philosophy? I'm aware that there are medical science training programs that will allow you go get a PhD in some sort of advanced scientific field or even medical ethics, but what about English or Philosophy?

As I said above, UCLA has a student doing philosophy in the MSTP right now. The med scholars program at UIUC will also allow any combination you want. Also definitely check out the webpage put up by LizzyM. Honestly, when I applied I just called every school with an MD/PhD program and asked if they would look at my app. These things are often not advertised on program webpages.