Going from MD/PhD to MD

[working_hard1]

I'm an incoming M1 to an MD/PhD program. I have done a lot of soul searching this summer, and I have decided that I don't want to go the MD/PhD route. I can't see myself doing the 80-20 lifestyle touted by physician-scientists. Working with patients and doing more clinically-focused research is much more exciting than laboratory bench work, and I don't see myself completing the PhD. How do I navigate telling this to the MD/PhD program directors?

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[KnightDoc]

Just tell them. Sooner better than later. What is there to navigate? You did soul searching and had a change of heart. They are going to be pissed whatever you say, and whenever you say it, because you cost them a spot, unless it's not too late to fill it now.

Just be prepared to lose your funding, but you are better off doing it now, since I think you might have to make arrangements to pay them back if you do it later before finishing the program.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I don’t think they’ll be that mad if you phrase it how you did in the initial post

 

[wholeheartedly]

The sooner you do it, the sooner they can fill that spot.

 

[working_hard1]

Thanks for the tips everyone. I'll send an email to the program directors soon telling them that I just want to pursue the MD.

 

[grist]

Just be prepared to lose your funding, but you are better off doing it now, since I think you might have to make arrangements to pay them back if you do it later before finishing the program.

If the program is an MSTP then they are legally not allowed to require students who drop out to pay back disbursed funding. For non-MSTP MD-PhD programs it's case by case

 

[VaultArmitage]

An incoming M1? As in you haven’t started the program? If that’s the case then I would be careful that you don’t lose a spot altogether… I don’t know if the program can just put you into the MD track if you haven’t actually started any classes.

 

[working_hard1]

An incoming M1? As in you haven’t started the program? If that’s the case then I would be careful that you don’t lose a spot altogether… I don’t know if the program can just put you into the MD track if you haven’t actually started any classes.

Yes, I haven't started the program yet (classes start early August). I'd like to be switched to the MD track soon so that I don't have to deal with paying the MD/PhD (it's not MSTP) program back and can figure out loans now.

I talked to financial aid and they gave me the breakdown for what I'd have to pay. Should I pay the bill/get my loans now and wait to tell the MD/PhD program directors till after classes start? Is losing the spot a concern I should have? It hadn't even crossed my mind that I might lose my spot

 

[Tenk]

Go talk to your Dean of admission or someone of similar standing in the MD college before you pull any triggers. Make sure you aren’t shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[KnightDoc]

Yes, I haven't started the program yet (classes start early August). I'd like to be switched to the MD track soon so that I don't have to deal with paying the MD/PhD (it's not MSTP) program back and can figure out loans now.

I talked to financial aid and they gave me the breakdown for what I'd have to pay. Should I pay the bill/get my loans now and wait to tell the MD/PhD program directors till after classes start? Is losing the spot a concern I should have? It hadn't even crossed my mind that I might lose my spot

No one here can answer that, but I think it would be especially punitive to cast you from the kingdom after they already accepted you, just because you don't want to pursue the PhD.

How can you get loans and pay a bill now if you have no tuition? How will you not signal what you are doing if you tell them to keep their money? Pick your poison, because, if they are going to retroactively want reimbursement, you are not going to be able to retroactively borrow that from the feds, and will have to find that money elsewhere (savings, parents or private loans).

I don't see how waiting to tell them until after classes begin is not going to be worse for all involved (i.e., making it too late for them to replace you, if that's what they want to do). If they want to throw you out, why will they not be able to in late August, versus now? I'd think they'd be more inclined to do that, out of spite, if you wait until they cannot find another PhD candidate to take your place.

JMHO, but I would not screw around with this, given the stakes.

 

[VaultArmitage]

No one here can answer that, but I think it would be especially punitive to cast you from the kingdom after they already accepted you, just because you don't want to pursue the PhD.

How can you get loans and pay a bill now if you have no tuition? How will you not signal what you are doing if you tell them to keep their money? Pick your poison, because, if they are going to retroactively want reimbursement, you are not going to be able to retroactively borrow that from the feds, and will have to find that money elsewhere (savings, parents or private loans).

I don't see how waiting to tell them until after classes begin is not going to be worse for all involved (i.e., making it too late for them to replace you, if that's what they want to do). If they want to throw you out, why will they not be able to in late August, versus now? I'd think they'd be more inclined to do that, out of spite, if you wait until they cannot find another PhD candidate to take your place.

JMHO, but I would not screw around with this, given the stakes.

I think it would be very petty to cast OP from the kingdom for this but I'm trying to think about from a PD's point of view.

It's very important you talk to someone who knows the school's policies well. NO ONE HERE CAN TELL YOU WHAT WILL HAPPEN FOR SURE. I say this because this is the first scenario that crosses my mind: OP was admitted to the MD/PhD program NOT the regular MD program. This potentially means that if the PD wants, they could easily say "I'm sorry, the regular MD class is full. Admission to the MD/PhD is not considered admission to the MD program." In fact, I distinctly remember reading on a school's website (I'll try to find it and link it in a comment later) something to the effect of "admission to the MD/PhD program does not mean you are automatically granted admission into the MD program, blah, blah, blah." I think this policy exists in place to prevent weak applicants with strong research backgrounds from applying MD/PhD to get an offer than switching into MD (note I don't think that is what OP is doing). At most schools there are separate admissions committees for MD/PhD and regular MD, this means maybe the MD admissions committee never even saw OP's application.

Basically what I'm saying is be careful. I could be totally wrong (I hope I am) and switching will be no problem. Or, worst case scenario by dropping the PhD you lose your spot and have to reapply. Talk to someone you can trust and that knows the policies of your school well.

 

[KnightDoc]

I think it would be very petty to cast OP from the kingdom for this but I'm trying to think about from a PD's point of view.

It's very important you talk to someone who knows the school's policies well. NO ONE HERE CAN TELL YOU WHAT WILL HAPPEN FOR SURE. I say this because this is the first scenario that crosses my mind: OP was admitted to the MD/PhD program NOT the regular MD program. This potentially means that if the PD wants, they could easily say "I'm sorry, the regular MD class is full. Admission to the MD/PhD is not considered admission to the MD program." In fact, I distinctly remember reading on a school's website (I'll try to find it and link it in a comment later) something to the effect of "admission to the MD/PhD program does not mean you are automatically granted admission into the MD program, blah, blah, blah." I think this policy exists in place to prevent weak applicants with strong research backgrounds from applying MD/PhD to get an offer than switching into MD (note I don't think that is what OP is doing). At most schools there are separate admissions committees for MD/PhD and regular MD, this means maybe the MD admissions committee never even saw OP's application.

Basically what I'm saying is be careful. I could be totally wrong (I hope I am) and switching will be no problem. Or, worst case scenario by dropping the PhD you lose your spot and have to reapply. Talk to someone you can trust and that knows the policies of your school well.

Agreed. But what is the alternative? Waiting a year or two, hoping not to be expelled for taking a MD-only slot the school did not otherwise want OP to have, and then being responsible for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in restitution that federal loans will not be available to cover?

If it was me, I'd want to know what's going to happen now, rather than having this hang over my head. Maybe it would lead to more soul searching and a decision to stick with the program. Maybe the school would be okay with me switching to MD-only. Maybe I'd end up being a reapplicant, but I wouldn't have caused the school to lose a MD/PhD slot, or someone on a WL to lose a shot at living the dream.

 

[candbgirl]

What are you waiting for? August is fast approaching. I’m thinking you didn’t just come up with this decision. Schools want their seats filled. You don’t want the MD/PhD seat but someone on a waitlist does. So give it up so that person can have it. Currently your best chance is to grab an open seat in the MD program before they are all filled by waitlist applicants. I’m not sure if it’s a given they will let you fill the seat but waiting isn’t going to make it better or easier. Make the call to someone today and find out. I’d think the worst that could happen is you’d be at the top of the MD waitlist if there is no spot currently available.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

I can't see myself doing the 80-20 lifestyle touted by physician-scientists. Working with patients and doing more clinically-focused research is much more exciting than laboratory bench work

Come back to this thought in like 20 years and you'll probably be singing a different tune.

Also, very few are able to get enough funding to do 80-20. I'm 50-50 and I count my blessings its even that.