Going the Ph.D route..

[YoungGregory]

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Hey guys. I didn't know where to post this so I decided on the section that gets the most traffic. Lol. But I'm interested in possibly getting into academia/research. I was talking to one of my mentors/professors and he recommended I look into getting a Ph.D.

One of my interest is genetics/heredity. The problem is I really don't know where find masters/Ph.D programs in this field. Can you guys give me an idea where to look?

 

[aSagacious]

Genetics graduate programs are pretty common.

 

[YoungGregory]

Genetics graduate programs are pretty common.

That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.

 

[notbobtrustme]

I would highly suggest not doing a PhD. It's a road to serfdom. It's simply too hard to break into academia or industry without a ton of major luck as well as insane amounts of hard work. At my old PhD program, there post-docs in their 10th year getting their realty license because research was not working out. We've had speakers come in from industry detailing what goes into hiring a new scientist and it ain't pretty.

Just don't do it. Trust me. Go for an MD/PhD if you really must; at least you'll have options after you graduate.

 

[Ebola4Breakfast]

I would highly suggest not doing a PhD. It's a road to serfdom. It's simply too hard to break into academia or industry without a ton of major luck as well as insane amounts of hard work. At my old PhD program, there post-docs in their 10th year getting their realty license because research was not working out. We've had speakers come in from industry detailing what goes into hiring a new scientist and it ain't pretty.

Just don't do it. Trust me. Go for an MD/PhD if you really must; at least you'll have options after you graduate.

🙄 I think you're being a little dramatic. No one is going to argue that the current state of research funding is ideal, but it isn't a lost cause either. I don't know of a single person who can't find a job, is struggling to publish despite turning out quality work, or has spent ten years as a postdoctoral fellow. Quality work gets noticed. Mediocrity does not get rewarded. That goes for most lines of work.

To the OP, most schools have moved to integrated (umbrella) programs where all the biomedical departments are recruited collectively. Schools that have strong medical schools will usually also have strong graduate programs that may fit your needs. A little bit of googling should do the trick: integrated biomedical sciences, graduate biomedical sciences, integrated programs in biomedical sciences, etc.

 

[kami333]

🙄 I think you're being a little dramatic. No one is going to argue that the current state of research funding is ideal, but it isn't a lost cause either. I don't know of a single person who can't find a job, is struggling to publish despite turning out quality work, or has spent ten years as a postdoctoral fellow. Quality work gets noticed. Mediocrity does not get rewarded. That goes for most lines of work.

I agree it's not all doom and gloom, but I think you're being a little too optimistic.

 

[Lil Mick]

It really isn't that bad. If you combine it with something quantitative or seek funding outside the NIH (ample funding these days) and do well in your research, you'll be able to do research somewhere. Shoot me a PM if you want to talk more. I'm in the process of deciding whether or not I'm finishing my MD/PhD because of research opportunities.

 

[luckyducky87]

I guess it depends on what kind of lab experience one has had before ;-) Me personally, I agree with notbobtrustme in that progressing in academic research lies highly on luck (unfortunately) and a true dedication to science even if you spend years and years only getting negative results that aren't publishable. Personally, I can't say I can work with that -- it's just too frustrating for me knowing that I could spend 5 years working on a project without getting close to a publication while someone next to me, with some dumb luck, gets a Nature paper out in half a year. I wouldn't say one shouldn't go to graduate school of course! But I think to make it in academia later, you really need to be sure this is what you love.

People in my lab must come to lab 60+ hours a week, seldom taking days off here and there. They talk about research projects during lunch. They read science papers during coffee breaks in the lunchroom. Then they go home and think about their projects some more. Some told me they couldn't sleep a few nights before starting their postdoc in our lab because they were SO excited about their new project. I think this is the kind of true enthusiasm it takes. (and I mean, after 4-6 years here, most post-docs end up very successful in academia)

But sorry, I realize we diverted from the original post. But if you're relying on SDN to tell you where to go look for graduate schools, you might want to look into this more! 🙂 Go work in a genetics lab in your undergraduate institution. Connect with some PI's in the field - ask them for advice. It's very different from liking genetics by taking a course on it.

 

[sibitrum]

I'm not sure by your original post, but if you really like clinical medicine, too, you could just get an MD. Even with just an MD, you could transition into a physician/scientist or pure research. Many successful researchers have done this. One great example is the late Ralph Steinman, who won a Nobel this year. You don't need a PhD to do quality research.

 

[mokhoras]

.

 

[soundnin]

People in my lab must come to lab 60+ hours a week, seldom taking days off here and there. They talk about research projects during lunch. They read science papers during coffee breaks in the lunchroom. Then they go home and think about their projects some more. Some told me they couldn't sleep a few nights before starting their postdoc in our lab because they were SO excited about their new project. I think this is the kind of true enthusiasm it takes.

sounds about right except for the relaxed 60h work week

I agree it's not all doom and gloom, but I think you're being a little too optimistic.

+1. two extreme and opposite views on research life haha. i know plenty of people who are struggling to publish, stuck in dead end postdocs, but the ones who truly want to do science don't let the failure stories of others deter them, even if they aren't swimming in fame.

 

[JESSFALLING]

If you have the competitive stats to get in and desire the career, then I think the MD/PhD programs are great because you end up with a marketable combination for academic/research careers, yet you still have the choice to pursue clinical medicine. Plus, getting an MD with no debt is pretty cool (although you're losing a few years of attending pay due to the PhD time...but this shouldn't matter because if you were 100% interested in clinical then you'd be better off just getting the MD)

 

[AWK87DOC]

Im currently in grad school and I hate myself for doing it. Not a morning goes by that I dont look in the mirror and want to smash it to smithereens before going to work aka slavery. If you wanna do medicine, apply to med school. You only become an MD by going to med school, grad schools doesn't give you an MD. It just gives you hell.

Besides you can do research with an MD. You get better funding opportunities and more prestige. Yes there is debt, but the slavery lasts 4-7 years if you include residency. It is a define timeline, unlike PhD which can take more than 6 years on average.

Long story short, think hard about this. I didn't and did this crap with med school on my mind thinking it would help me get into medicine. Yes it may when im done, but ill probably have to admit myself to a psych ward after graduating so no med school for me. yipee. F grad school. 🙂

sorry i had to...just a bad day today.

wow if you feel strongly about it, i suggest you master-out. No need to keep pushing at something your heart isn't in. I, too went for the PhD at UTSW before MD. I'll be graduating next year after 4 years and headed to medschool at the same place. I was genuinely interested in research but not competitive for MD/PhD. Long story short, don't stick with it if you know you really don't need it. A masters will probably serve you better

 

[YoungGregory]

Thanks for the replies everyone. The idea of doing research and teaching at a college was always intriguing to me, but I never thought about getting a Ph.D until my professor recommended I look into it.


At this point I just want to hear opinions on Ph.D programs/going that route, and any other information I can get.

 

[IMSingular]

Thanks for the replies everyone. The idea of doing research and teaching at a college was always intriguing to me, but I never thought about getting a Ph.D until my professor recommended I look into it.


At this point I just want to hear opinions on Ph.D programs/going that route, and any other information I can get.

Do some research on how this professor's PhD students have done after they graduated. Some professors might just churn out PhDs. If his students are well placed, in academia or otherwise, you would be OK. His past PhDs also would be a good network to get a good position after you finish your PhDs. If your PhD is not from say top 20 in the field it may not be worth doing it.

 

[AWK87DOC]

Do some research on how this professor's PhD students have done after they graduated. Some professors might just churn out PhDs. If his students are well placed, in academia or otherwise, you would be OK. His past PhDs also would be a good network to get a good position after you finish your PhDs. If your PhD is not from say top 20 in the field it may not be worth doing it.

I agree, look into going to a top20 school, UTSW has a really good genetics and cell biology program,... applications for entering class of 2012 are now available i believe. I do recruiting for the UTSW graduate school, so PM me if you have any questions

 

[Ebola4Breakfast]

Thanks for the replies everyone. The idea of doing research and teaching at a college was always intriguing to me, but I never thought about getting a Ph.D until my professor recommended I look into it.


At this point I just want to hear opinions on Ph.D programs/going that route, and any other information I can get.

Here's the thing: you are not going to get many good, unbiased opinions from this forum. You need to seek these opinions elsewhere. The MD/PhD thread might be a good alternative.

Here's the bottom line: a PhD is a doctoral degree. Treat it accordingly. It is paid, but it is still a huge commitment. It is a commitment you need to be sure you want to make. As people have indicated above, you absolutely need to get yourself involved in research. How else can you know you want to do research unless you've actually had your hands in it? No program worth attending will accept you without research experience (and a good understanding of that research experience). Talk to graduate students. Talk to post docs. Talk to your professors. They've all been where you are currently. You need to educate yourself. You need to know exactly what you're getting yourself into before you apply. This is a great first step.

There are good and bad points to going the PhD route. First, the good points. For any program worth attending, you are paid a stipend (usually between $25-30k/year), tuition is waived, and you are given free health insurance. In the biomedical sciences, most teaching requirements are nil. This means your research is the focus. You aren't necessarily being trained to be an expert in a specific area (though it happens as a result), you are being trained to think like a scientist. The bad parts of going the PhD route are the lack of continuity in training and the uncertainty in graduation. Pick a good, well funded mentor and life is good. You go to several conferences per year, get publication opportunities, the ability to network, etc. Pick a bad mentor and life sucks. You're stuck in a broom closet with minimal reagents and yelled/cursed at on the regular. Choose wisely. Some do, some don't. My undergraduate advisor gave me the wise advice to select a lab based on my relationship with my mentor/lab rather than my interest in the research project. BEST. ADVICE. EVER. But, my point is that you can see how two people could have completely different experiences in graduate school in the same school in the same program.

And then there is the uncertain timeline to graduation. Unlike undergraduate or medical school, where you complete a specific number of credits and you're done… graduate school is a different beast. Your committee (4-7 faculty members) decides your fate. If they feel you've done enough work, you get the green light to start writing your dissertation and defend. If not… well, then that really sucks for you. I never had any problems with my committee. They were tough, but they never hindered my graduation. There are some real horror stories out there though.

Finally, to round out my wall of text and counter the above posts of resentment towards grad school, I'll give you my story. I graduated with my PhD in the biomedical sciences in 2009. Going to graduate school was the BEST decision I ever made. But, make no mistake, it is my life. I live and breathe research. I love it. And I have a strong record of achievement to show from it. PM me if you have any specific questions.

 

[AWK87DOC]

here’s the thing: You are not going to get many good, unbiased opinions from this forum. You need to seek these opinions elsewhere. The md/phd thread might be a good alternative.

Here’s the bottom line: A phd is a doctoral degree. Treat it accordingly. It is paid, but it is still a huge commitment. It is a commitment you need to be sure you want to make. As people have indicated above, you absolutely need to get yourself involved in research. How else can you know you want to do research unless you’ve actually had your hands in it? No program worth attending will accept you without research experience (and a good understanding of that research experience). Talk to graduate students. Talk to post docs. Talk to your professors. They’ve all been where you are currently. You need to educate yourself. You need to know exactly what you’re getting yourself into before you apply. This is a great first step.

There are good and bad points to going the phd route. First, the good points. For any program worth attending, you are paid a stipend (usually between $25-30k/year), tuition is waived, and you are given free health insurance. In the biomedical sciences, most teaching requirements are nil. This means your research is the focus. You aren’t necessarily being trained to be an expert in a specific area (though it happens as a result), you are being trained to think like a scientist. The bad parts of going the phd route is the lack of continuity in training and the uncertainty in graduation. Pick a good, well funded mentor and life is good. You go to several conferences per year, get publication opportunities, the ability to network, etc. Pick a bad mentor and life sucks. You’re stuck in a broom closet with minimal reagents and yelled/cursed at on the regular. Choose wisely. Some do, some don’t. My undergraduate advisor gave me the wise advice to select a lab based on my relationship with my mentor/lab rather than my interest in the research project. Best. Advice. Ever. But, my point is that you can see how two people could have completely different experiences in graduate school in the same school in the same program.

And then there is the uncertain timeline to graduation. Unlike undergraduate or medical school, where you complete a specific number of credits and you’re done… graduate school is a different beast. Your committee (4-7 faculty members) decides your fate. If they feel you’ve done enough work, you get the green light to start writing your dissertation and defend. If not… well, then that really sucks for you. I never had any problems with my committee. They were tough, but they never hindered my graduation. There are some real horror stories out there though.

Finally, to round out my wall of text and counter the above posts of resentment towards grad school, i’ll give you my story. I graduated with my phd in the biomedical sciences in 2009. Going to graduate school was the best decision i ever made. But, make no mistake, it is my life. I live and breathe research. I love it. And i have a strong record of achievement to show from it. Pm me if you have any specific questions.

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