I have read before that it is better to be a big fish in a little pond rather than the opposite when it comes to choosing which college to go to. I live in a rural state which has three public universities, one big one, one medium sized one, and one random one which no one ever talks about and is much smaller (from now on known as "random college"). On a side note, everyone I know who has done in my state has gone to "big college" or a few times "medium college" I was thinking about going to "random college" because the competition is much, much less there while the academics are in theory about the same as medium college and big college. There I would be able to pursue more ECs and I will be surrounded by non-premed students who I wont have to compete with. The reputation of this college in my state is subpar and the town it is in is boring. So, my question is: is being able to pursue more ECs (including getting leadership roles in them) and most likely being in the top .5-1% of the class a good reason to go to podunk U?
Going to a "Bad" College on Purpose
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If you will get good grades for sure at the college, go for it.
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first of all theres no guarantee tha tyou'll get a 3.99 at podunk U, or that your GPA will be different enough than if u went to a better school, so it might not even statistically be an investment to go to podunk u.
a korean newspaper recently published stats about the schools that sent students to last year's JHU and stanford med school class. the schools that sent the most were significantly more prestigious (top publics and privates - harvard, yale, UCLA, Berkeley, stanford, MIT, hopkins, etc.); the schools that sent 1 every once in a while were the podunk or middle-tier u's. the sum of students from podunk/middle-tier u's probably was overall greater than the sum of ppl from top schools, but that could be a reflection of the number of applicants from top/midde/lower-tier schools). the bottom line was apparantly that school name highly correlates with med school admissions chances for any particular student from that school. i suppose a 3.9 from a great school >>> 3.9 from podunk u. thats just what i think. the bottom line is ... just kick butt wherever u go. thats the only thing u can really do if u want to get into a good school. u have to be excellent, so become that wherever u are.
a korean newspaper recently published stats about the schools that sent students to last year's JHU and stanford med school class. the schools that sent the most were significantly more prestigious (top publics and privates - harvard, yale, UCLA, Berkeley, stanford, MIT, hopkins, etc.); the schools that sent 1 every once in a while were the podunk or middle-tier u's. the sum of students from podunk/middle-tier u's probably was overall greater than the sum of ppl from top schools, but that could be a reflection of the number of applicants from top/midde/lower-tier schools). the bottom line was apparantly that school name highly correlates with med school admissions chances for any particular student from that school. i suppose a 3.9 from a great school >>> 3.9 from podunk u. thats just what i think. the bottom line is ... just kick butt wherever u go. thats the only thing u can really do if u want to get into a good school. u have to be excellent, so become that wherever u are.
Please, please, please don't pick a school based on whether or not you think you can get good grades there. College is not just a pit stop on the way to medical school. It's a chance to broaden your mind and your interests. I'd much rather go somewhere where I'm challenged than somewhere where I don't have to work and just get good grades. Besides, chances are pretty good that you might change your mind about medicine anyway so you might as well go somewhere you'll enjoy. Go to the college that you think will provide you with the best education and where you think you'll be happiest. Remember that it's as much about the path as it is about the destination. I wish you good luck in everything you do, and I hope you don't listen to people on here who tell you to pick a school based on the grades they give out.
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Yeah, if classes really are easier there, go for it. People's priorities are different, but the small school might not have the same atmosphere as the bigger one.
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Also, I find that high school students usually have a skewed perception of how easy or hard it will be to get good grades in college. So like i said, there's no real predicting "I'll get a 3.8 here but -0.4 on my GPA here, but +0.2 here... there's just NO way to tell). If you really are excellent you'll stand out. I slept through half of high school (was going thru some hard times) but managed to do BETTER in college, in a top 25 school (managed to get there cuz of my ec's, which i didnt sleep thru), even tho i thought colleg ewould be super hard... culd i have done better at a worse school? well, i dont know... but i'll never be able to tell HOW much better, the what if's, etc. it's all inside of you!! its not about your circumstances!
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I agree with the fact that you might never know how hard it is to get good grades at certain colleges.
I bet you could find tons of people here who found it extremely hard to get As at their state school where some people breezed through Ivys (this is excluding grade inflation and assuming equal level of intelligence).
That's why I would pick a college based on a multitude of factors. I picked my school because I loved the atmosphere, my friends, sports, size, and I thought I could do better here without feeling the pressure of a "tougher" school.
I bet you could find tons of people here who found it extremely hard to get As at their state school where some people breezed through Ivys (this is excluding grade inflation and assuming equal level of intelligence).
That's why I would pick a college based on a multitude of factors. I picked my school because I loved the atmosphere, my friends, sports, size, and I thought I could do better here without feeling the pressure of a "tougher" school.
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OP, just go to whichever school you like the best and makes the most sense financially. If you can do well at one, you can probably do well at them all. 👍
This almost certainly has some self-selection component; the students who are motivated and able to get into medical school will probably choose to attend the undergrad with a bigger name much of the time.
This almost certainly has some self-selection component; the students who are motivated and able to get into medical school will probably choose to attend the undergrad with a bigger name much of the time.
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Amen to this. Well said.
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I agree with college being your time to develop. Please go wherever you can see yourself thriving as a whole person, not just a 4.0 producing machine. Yes, the GPA matters a lot and is very important... but if you are thriving, you will succeed no matter where you go. If you go to the small school, for example, and hate it, are totally bored (not saying you will be, and not saying anything bad about small schools - just an example), you are at risk for losing your motivation. I would just spend some time on the campuses, find out about student orgs and opportunities, and go wherever is a best fit. My own story - I was accepted to/highly considering a small, prestigious liberal arts college (even over acceptance at a few ivys); my dad developed cancer, so I chose my State U, 15 mins from he and my mother (and yes, having an ego, my pride was a bit hurt at first. silly). Long story short, I made the best of the huge school - so much enriching diversity/student orgs... I developed leadership and soared to the top of my class. Will be graduating in May with an excellent GPA, resume, honors, department awards, presentations, research (non medical, but I was poli sci..)... but most of all, I grew from the experience - sometimes leaving your comfort zone is the best thing to do... and don't forget, you can find communities within larger universities (like my school's Honors College) that make it feel significantly smaller. Standing out as a top student in a huge graduating class never looks bad either....
basically, just go wherever you see yourself succeeding, and you will succeed!
basically, just go wherever you see yourself succeeding, and you will succeed!
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Also look where it would be cheaper - debt is a big issue
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I guess I'm in the minority here. I think you SHOULD go to "random college", provided that "random college" has smaller class sizes. You get to know your professors better and hopefully that leads to better LORs, etc. You won't have to scramble to register for classes in the first hour of registration because they probably won't fill that quickly. Huge schools rarely have good support systems for their students...smaller schools work harder to get you and keep you.
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The issue of one school being easier or harder and its effect on GPA is why there are standardized tests. IMO, it is much better for someone to have a 3.6 and a 32, that a 4.0 and a 28 (same LizzyM score). So a great GPA is only as good as the corresponding MCAT, IMO.
Just because Podunk U is Podunk U doesn't mean you will sail through. There was a kid who transferred from big state school to middle of the road school. Less than 3 weeks there, he vanished. Guess middle of the road wasn't what he expected. My ug also had a decent number of individuals who transferred in from CC after 2 years. Most had to switch majors because they didn't have a strong enough background from the CC. (Note: I'm in a huge city, where education, even at the high school level is terrible with something like 50% graduation rate. So maybe your local CC is better). So be aware the 'easier' rout which you think can get you a higher GPA may not work out as well as planned.
Side note: Does anyone remember the movie where they are doing a graduation ceremony and they are like "and your valedictorian with a a 2.8 GPA"?
Just because Podunk U is Podunk U doesn't mean you will sail through. There was a kid who transferred from big state school to middle of the road school. Less than 3 weeks there, he vanished. Guess middle of the road wasn't what he expected. My ug also had a decent number of individuals who transferred in from CC after 2 years. Most had to switch majors because they didn't have a strong enough background from the CC. (Note: I'm in a huge city, where education, even at the high school level is terrible with something like 50% graduation rate. So maybe your local CC is better). So be aware the 'easier' rout which you think can get you a higher GPA may not work out as well as planned.
Side note: Does anyone remember the movie where they are doing a graduation ceremony and they are like "and your valedictorian with a a 2.8 GPA"?
Isn't that a great letter? I wish I would have read that when I started out.
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Yes. And you could also be setting yourself up for failure later in life if you have never really had to truly push yourself. You don't want to wait until medical school to develop serious study skills.
Also, if you major in science, I would consider the laboratory facilities at the small school. A lot of times those "random colleges" are more liberal arts based and severely lack the equipment and facilities that a stronger science school would have. You just don't want to limit your experiences. Have more confidence that you'll succeed anywhere!
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I, too, would pick the small, easy school, as long as you think you'd enjoy going there. Study skills in college mean little since it's almost certain you're going to have to change things up to accommodate the huge amount of info you need to know in med school. Like someone above said, college isn't a pit stop on the way to med school, but wouldn't it be nice if the race was against toddlers instead of professionals?
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Select a college that you would love and then excel there. If you are afraid of competition, then medicine is the wrong profession for you. If you are afraid to play with the big boys, then get a CNA license and start changing bed pans.
Have some self confidence and some self respect and don't waste four years of your life in some hell hole where you will be miserable. If you have the talent and self discipline to succeed in med school, then you certainly should be able to do fine at any undergrad in the country.
Planning your entire life around med school admissions is pathetic anyway.
Have some self confidence and some self respect and don't waste four years of your life in some hell hole where you will be miserable. If you have the talent and self discipline to succeed in med school, then you certainly should be able to do fine at any undergrad in the country.
Planning your entire life around med school admissions is pathetic anyway.
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QFT.
Hard not to notice that most pre meds see as their life "goal" getting accepted to med school. No, the proper goal is to become a physician; med school is merely the means to that end.
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It'd be nice to be a physician before you're middle-aged, though. If I lived forever, I'd pursue three PhD's and a career in professional sports before I enter medical school. However...
I totally agree with MDUB and searun above.
Sorry but this is a bit silly to me. In reality it MOSTLY depends on the professor and/or professor + teacher's assistant.
In the sense that you may get more attention from the professor in a smaller school, where he or she may not be working on grant work and publication, yes it may be an advance that you might get more, solid, direct teaching from the professor. BUT that still depends on the professor. How the tests are constructed mostly reflects the professor and teacher--mostly. I mean there are committee and admin. criteria involved in that, but it's still mostly up to the professor.
The truth is this. In many ways teachers/professors/instructors are like demigods in the classroom. Like it or not, with some administrative exceptions, it's their way or the highway. I've seen professors go BONKERS when students have even dared to question certain questions on exams--this can happen in a smaller school or a bigger school. Some people just go bananas over such things. With one professor, I was scared he was going to end up in the ED, he was so upset at the student.
Also regardless of where you go to school, unless there are huge, substantiated charges, admininstration almost always sides with the professor.
Why does that matter? Well, b/c the professors, and TAs, regardless of the school, mostly call the shots in terms of presentation, tests, how lab work is evaluated, etc. It doesn't matter if you go to East Gippip School or some top tier school--with the exception of perhaps more direct teaching and interaction with the professor. That's why some community colleges actually are pretty good--they have professors that have other positions, but they choose to still teach at the CC b/c they love teaching. So it really depends on the professor. and to some degree, the TA.
At the end of the day, the classroom is the professor/teacher/instructor's turf regardless of which school you attend. Big school, small school, mid-sized, mid-tiered, whatever--what remains paramount is the individual professors/instructors, etc.--and that will vary greatly, regardless of the ranking of the school in most cases. It's not like public school, where they have to just push students along. If you don't care, they don't care.
I must be crazy, but I don't understand why people look at things in such ways.
What do you want to study undergrad? Base it on that and what it is about the school that demonstrates they have good departments in the area/s you want to study. Yes, practical considerations matter; but first find out about the schools' programs and go from there.
Leave the big fish/small fish nonsense out of the equation. Yes, in life you will have to deal with that eventually, but not now.
Go for what you will enjoy and why school X would be good for you and is most able to meet your needs in terms of learning.
Wherever you go, mostly it's up to you as the student. Yes, there are some suckier teachers (either TAs or professors or instructors). You'll find that everywhere.
Also you need to look at what the school has to offer you overall. Bigger schools often have more club offerings and other services.
Wow. I just think people are looking at things the wrong way. Just find out what you want to study undergrad, and who has the programs that you are most interested in. You could get a professor that is a total &@$$buster in a smaller college. You're not necessarily "safer" if you go to this school over that one. You'd have to know the professors/instructors/ta's that you would be dealing with, and usually don't know a lot about that until you attend the school.
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Taking the easy way out. Always a good quality for a physician.
This is stupid. When you're a Junior and either decided against medicine or it decided against you (grades) you're going to wish you had gone to the school you enjoy the most rather than which one was the best fit for medical school.
You can't swing a cat without hitting freshman who claim they want to go to medical school at most universities.
You can't swing a cat without hitting freshman who claim they want to go to medical school at most universities.
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Enjoy your lawsuits.
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Whoever said going to college is not about getting into medical school...
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+1000000000000
Seriously, all these freshmen and high schoolers on here are always like "blah blah whine whine med school" and they just can't see that college is where you grow and learn. You'll define yourself as a person while you're in college and if all you can think about is getting into med school you'll become bitter and ostracized.
👍
+1000000000000
Seriously, all these freshmen and high schoolers on here are always like "blah blah whine whine med school" and they just can't see that college is where you grow and learn. You'll define yourself as a person while you're in college and if all you can think about is getting into med school you'll become bitter and ostracized.
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I go to a small school and within ten minutes classes fill up for their respective number of credits. There is a class you can substitute but if you want to graduate on time, you better refresh it every minute. But I agree with your points.
Even bad colleges have some seriously smart and overachieving students. And those colleges can have harder grading curves - professors often try to compensate for their perceived inferiority or as a way for pushing their students harder. My community college classes were a lot harder than my undergraduate courses. And my state school was notorious for having the most difficult organic chemistry course. Several students opted for Harvard extension school or registering at Northeastern or BU. I also took courses at more selective schools and I found the classes to be easier than my college. To answer you question - it is not a given that you will be a big fish in a small pond. Furthermore, no name colleges have fewer resources and make it more difficult to be involved in significant ECs. There are also less opportunities for research, and less academic and personal support. You are pretty much on your own, thus you have to be a lot more proactive.
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Just because a school is small and not well known does not mean that all the classes will be a cakewalk. Choosing a school with this type of thought process is extremely stupid.
Do I go to a small school? Yes, but not to ensure that I can get a 4.0 GPA. I go here because I genuinely like it.
Do I go to a small school? Yes, but not to ensure that I can get a 4.0 GPA. I go here because I genuinely like it.
What school do you go to if you don't mind me asking?
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Why is everyone assuming that the easy school is going to be one the OP hates? I'd take easy grades at a school I like over busting my ass at a school I love any day. Don't forget that a high GPA is good for more than just getting into med school. Work smarter, not harder.
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A superiority complex. Always a good quality for a physician.
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Go to the school you like and will enjoy the experience. Not the school that you think will pad your resume. If you like small u then go for it. If you like big u then go for it. I went to a 40,000 plus school and NEVER had problems with finding research, knowing my profs, getting involved in ECs or anything else. I'm currently at another big state university for medical school (40,000ish as well) and don't have any problems here either. The premed group was even relatively small after the freshman year here. ( I did post-bacc)
If he likes the easy school, then by all means go there. But don't go there because it's easy. Never make an important decision in life based only on which choice you think will be easier. I would never choose an easy school I liked over a harder school that I loved. Choose the school you love and you'll do fine, and you'll get much more out of it, even if you GPA is a couple of points lower. School never was never just about getting grades, it's about learning to think in new ways. IMO, many of the best choices in life are actually the harder of two options. That said, I'm not suggesting he go to the harder school no matter what. Like I said above, if he likes the easier school better, then he should go there. However, in all reality there's probably no way he can know which school is harder (at least in the department he'll end up in) until he gets there so it's useless to even try to decide based on that.
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The OP said that the reputation of the school is subpar and the town where it is located is boring. So he should attend this school on the hope that he might get some an easy "A." Really?
He has not mentioned one reason to attend this college other than easy grades which may or may not be true. Small does not necessarily equate to easy. But his primary objective seems to avoid having to compete with bright students. That is not a criteria that should determine where a kid should spend four significant years of his life.
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You're going to end up swimming with the sharks at some point anyways, so you might as well get used to them.
My vote is to go to the school you'll be happiest at. I went to a college close to home so that I could be around family, and I had a great time. It was cheap, it had a wide array of opportunities, and it was huge (a perk for me, coming from a tiny high school). I had classes with 15-300 people, and if I wanted to get to know a professor, it was as easy as going and talking to them. I had more research opportunities available than I could have ever pursued, and because I stayed in the Honors College (which really isn't that hard to get into), I had priority course registration. I don't think there was ever a time I wished I'd gone to a smaller school.
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Small college can also mean inadequate professors or it can mean specialty in certain areas. I know small schools who have great pre-med programs as well that are super competitive. For example, in the state of Michigan, Hope college has a population of about 4,000 students. Hope is known for it's cut-throat pre-med program and has a 89% MD acceptance rate if the student's GPA is higher than 3.4.
I go to a mid-tier University with about 18,000 students and for every amazing inspirational professor there is one who doesn't care about the students and only cares about their research, or is super outdated, or chooses not to give A's because he went to Princeton and thinks we're all inadequate. The reality is you can find a hard prof at any University. Also, try imagining the social scene at a small lower-tiered school compared to a larger school.
Everyone is correct. Go somewhere that you can imagine yourself enjoying for the next four years!
P.S. crazy fact: Hope College has more undergraduate research published in peer reviewed journals in biology than Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, and Johns Hopkins.
No more talking crap about small schools not having research opportunities! Do your research on your undergrad choice.
I go to a mid-tier University with about 18,000 students and for every amazing inspirational professor there is one who doesn't care about the students and only cares about their research, or is super outdated, or chooses not to give A's because he went to Princeton and thinks we're all inadequate. The reality is you can find a hard prof at any University. Also, try imagining the social scene at a small lower-tiered school compared to a larger school.
Everyone is correct. Go somewhere that you can imagine yourself enjoying for the next four years!
P.S. crazy fact: Hope College has more undergraduate research published in peer reviewed journals in biology than Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, and Johns Hopkins.
No more talking crap about small schools not having research opportunities! Do your research on your undergrad choice.
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I've gone to more than my fair share of universities (a small state school for classes in HS, a small but well respected [expensive] college immediately after HS, a small [inexpensive] college that I graduated from, and a top 10 that I teach undergrad classes at) so I have a bit of first hand perspective.
First, the short response: go somewhere that you'll be challenged, that you'd be happy to live, and that would set you up for success in any career you may choose down the line. So, assuming the top 10 isn't going to massacre you financially, go there.
There have been huge differences between all the schools I've gone to, and they can't be compared only by "great school" vs "podunk U". For example, the private school I briefly attended had very limited course offerings, was in a secluded area, and was extremely expensive. There were very few elective courses I could take in any given major, and the research opportunities were third-rate. Had I stayed there, I would have had excellent access to professors, but I wouldn't have been able to follow my own path very well, and would only have access to research in the form of summer programs. I also would have graduated being >$150k in debt.
The school I ultimately graduated from was what you would describe as "podunk U". It wasn't tiny, but it is completely unknown to the world outside of its geographical area. However, since they had more students, there were more electives. More professors also meant that there were more real research opportunities. These professors also had to get at least some grant money, which means that they were actually trying to publish occasionally. The opportunities weren't exactly excellent, but there was also no competition for them. I could work with any professors I wanted, and I had access to every one of my professors. I could just stop by their office hours to talk about the weather if I wanted, and they wouldn't be bothered about it. Because of this, I got an extremely good education from this school. However, grading WAS NOT easier. If you went to that school for chemistry, physics, math, engineering, etc, and assumed that you could get a >3.8 GPA, you'd be in for a very sad awakening. The grading at that school was every bit as hard as it is at the school I currently teach at (which is notorious for their harsh grading standards).
The school I teach at now is at the exact opposite end of the spectrum. It's academically amazing, and the majority of the students here are very good, so competition is tough. However, every class they get is taught by some expert in the field. That doesn't mean they're good teachers, but it certainly means that they know their ****. It also means that the students have no access to them. To get into a research lab as an undergrad here, you need to be exceptional - great grades and several letters of recommendation. Undergrads here really just don't know their professors, and it is difficult for students to get good academic letters here. What they do get is access to other opportunities and the school's name to back them up. On average, students here are forced to be better than they were at my undergrad, and that often correlates to having better ECs on their application, etc. The other advantage is that should a pre-med here decide to not go into medicine, they'll have a ton of other opportunities.
So, the answer is that it depends on what you want for your undergraduate education. As was said before, DO NOT just choose a school that you think will get you into medical school. That's sad and misguided for many reasons. Go to a school that you can succeed at regardless of what you want to do in four years. Also, don't assume that just because the school doesn't have a big name that grading will be easier. If you're wrong, you just landed yourself a four year term in a **** school with a poor GPA.
I could have gotten into medical school from any of the universities I've attended. The small private school would have given me a shot to the majority of schools, though not as many as the top ten would have. It would have cost me four years of misery and >$150k though. The state school I graduated from did get me into a good medical school (though I went a different path at that point), but the lack of a name and tough grading system didn't do me any favors at the best schools. The school I'm currently at consistently places students in every one of the top schools, but there is a lot of competition within the class for those seats.
There's no way that you're going to make the admissions process easy. In all probability, you'll change your mind before you even get to the application process, so don't screw yourself by eliminating backup plans.
First, the short response: go somewhere that you'll be challenged, that you'd be happy to live, and that would set you up for success in any career you may choose down the line. So, assuming the top 10 isn't going to massacre you financially, go there.
There have been huge differences between all the schools I've gone to, and they can't be compared only by "great school" vs "podunk U". For example, the private school I briefly attended had very limited course offerings, was in a secluded area, and was extremely expensive. There were very few elective courses I could take in any given major, and the research opportunities were third-rate. Had I stayed there, I would have had excellent access to professors, but I wouldn't have been able to follow my own path very well, and would only have access to research in the form of summer programs. I also would have graduated being >$150k in debt.
The school I ultimately graduated from was what you would describe as "podunk U". It wasn't tiny, but it is completely unknown to the world outside of its geographical area. However, since they had more students, there were more electives. More professors also meant that there were more real research opportunities. These professors also had to get at least some grant money, which means that they were actually trying to publish occasionally. The opportunities weren't exactly excellent, but there was also no competition for them. I could work with any professors I wanted, and I had access to every one of my professors. I could just stop by their office hours to talk about the weather if I wanted, and they wouldn't be bothered about it. Because of this, I got an extremely good education from this school. However, grading WAS NOT easier. If you went to that school for chemistry, physics, math, engineering, etc, and assumed that you could get a >3.8 GPA, you'd be in for a very sad awakening. The grading at that school was every bit as hard as it is at the school I currently teach at (which is notorious for their harsh grading standards).
The school I teach at now is at the exact opposite end of the spectrum. It's academically amazing, and the majority of the students here are very good, so competition is tough. However, every class they get is taught by some expert in the field. That doesn't mean they're good teachers, but it certainly means that they know their ****. It also means that the students have no access to them. To get into a research lab as an undergrad here, you need to be exceptional - great grades and several letters of recommendation. Undergrads here really just don't know their professors, and it is difficult for students to get good academic letters here. What they do get is access to other opportunities and the school's name to back them up. On average, students here are forced to be better than they were at my undergrad, and that often correlates to having better ECs on their application, etc. The other advantage is that should a pre-med here decide to not go into medicine, they'll have a ton of other opportunities.
So, the answer is that it depends on what you want for your undergraduate education. As was said before, DO NOT just choose a school that you think will get you into medical school. That's sad and misguided for many reasons. Go to a school that you can succeed at regardless of what you want to do in four years. Also, don't assume that just because the school doesn't have a big name that grading will be easier. If you're wrong, you just landed yourself a four year term in a **** school with a poor GPA.
I could have gotten into medical school from any of the universities I've attended. The small private school would have given me a shot to the majority of schools, though not as many as the top ten would have. It would have cost me four years of misery and >$150k though. The state school I graduated from did get me into a good medical school (though I went a different path at that point), but the lack of a name and tough grading system didn't do me any favors at the best schools. The school I'm currently at consistently places students in every one of the top schools, but there is a lot of competition within the class for those seats.
There's no way that you're going to make the admissions process easy. In all probability, you'll change your mind before you even get to the application process, so don't screw yourself by eliminating backup plans.
Pick your college based on its academic offerings/reputation, cost/expected loan debt, student lifestyle, location, etc., but not simply because you think it'll be an easier path towards a top GPA or ultimate medical school acceptance. Viewing college as simply a pit stop along the path towards the MD is not going to benefit you in the long run. What's more, if you decide med school isn't for you, you'll find other career paths may not be nearly so prestige-blind. The composition of top PhD programs, prestigious law and business schools, and first-year analyst classes at bulge brackets or top consultancies is prestige-heavy to say the least.
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So you're going to spend four years in a boring town, at a school you already don't have much respect for (and that nobody else in your state thinks much of)? Sounds like a recipe for misery.
And I say this as someone who won't apply to my well-respected IS vet school (Moo U) when the time comes, for no other reason than I hate the location and don't want to live there for 4+ years. (Seriously, it's a boring little ag town in the middle of nowhere, and the thought of having to live there makes me die a little inside.) As good as Moo U's vet program is, I'm still okay with paying OOS tuition for the year it takes to establish residency elsewhere--not having to endure exile in East Cowflop is worth the extra expense to me.
That's because I've found that if you like where you live, take pride in being there, and have plenty of fun options for blowing off steam close at hand, it is much easier to stay motivated when things get tough. You can go out, do something fun, relax, then get back to work. But if you hate living in places like East Cowflop, and find it boring--and feel kind of embarrassed when you tell people that you attend Podunk U (which you will)--keeping that motivation can be really difficult. It can be incredibly depressing and demoralizing.
As others have said, undergrad is not just a hurdle or way station on the way to med school. So I would advise you to choose the school that's in the location you'd most prefer to live in. Go where your friends are going. Go where there are more opportunities for research, volunteering, jobs, and other ECs that will help on your application. Go where you know you can also have fun.
And yes, it may be a lot harder, but you're going to end up a small fish, swimming with the sharks in the big tank, sooner or later. Best you learn how to cope with it before entering med school.
Now, all that said, if you insist on attending Podunk U, at least do it with an eye toward transfering to either "medium college" or "big college" in your junior year. By then you will have (ideally) a high GPA, plus you will have learned college-level study skills so you won't drown in demanding upper-division coursework. Use it as a glorified community college, if you must--but recognize that you don't have to stay there all four years.
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I would agree with this if the medical education system were 6 years undergraduate-entry instead of 4+4 years graduate-entry. The whole concern here is GPA and acceptance, after all. However, this is my hindsight speaking.
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I agree.
Certainly. However, medical school will have an impact on the type of research facilities you have access to, the teachers, the resources, the fellow students, etc. There's a lot that is impacted by the medical school. Not to mention scholarships.
Someone responded that the OP said he found it boring yadda yadda. That may be true in the OP case but that can't be generalized to the whole case in general. Many people will enjoy easier universities than ultra-competitive ones.
The game is to survive as long and as well as possible. I actually find that minimizing your time with the sharks and then putting yourself in a good position to compete with the sharks once you get there is smarter than hurling yourself into the shark tank from day one.
There's nothing noble about attending some super hard school. If that's what you chose, choose it for the right reasons. However, there's nothing wrong with going to a school where you will excel. People preach "where you go to school doesn't matter." So why is everyone getting so worked up about it?
The way I see it, go will you will thrive and do best. If that is at a school with less competition, than go there and beast it. If you have to be surrounded by ultra-tough competition (and you are capable of getting accepted there) to bring out the best in you, go in there and do your thing. If you need a lot of interesting people around or a great city to stay interested and happy, then go there and flourish. Just do what you gotta do to put you in the best position to do well.
I'm personally a very competitive person by nature and because of that, I'll push myself hard regardless of who is around me. I chose a challenging school to attend but I see no problem with going to a less competitive school so that you shine more. OP, do what you gotta do to be the most awesome-looking applicant you can. If you'll outshine everyone around you at podunk u and you don't think you'll do as well somewhere else, go there and do your thing if that's what's important to you. Don't let other people put their own value judgments on your decision.
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I see what you mean. It's definitely worth thinking twice before majoring in something that's notoriously difficult to get a good GPA in, like engineering. There are some strategic moves involved along the way, like seeing which professor is teaching which class, and trying to learn as much as you can while simultaneously not taking classes that will give you a bunch of low grades.
I just think it's a good idea to be comfortable with some stiff competition. Now, there were a lot more minnows than sharks at my undergrad, and while I was usually in the top handful of students in my classes, there were usually several people who beat me most of the time or every time. I know this, because they were usually my study partners. It was really good motivation.
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Sadly I have come to the conclusion that going to a tough college is a big mistake if your goal in life is to get into medical school. Admissions committees will not go out of their way to normalize undergraduate records for the admissions standards of the college, the rigor of the major or the weight of the course load. It's too much work, smacks of elitism and would hurt the schools US News rankings which are based in part on undergraduate gpas of matriculants. They'd rather take an econ major with a 3.8 from podunk than a 3.3 physics major from Harvey Mudd.
My daughter went to a college that ranked highly on the National Science Foundation's Survey of Earned Doctorates, majored in chemistry and took 20 science classes as an undergrad including two terms of calculus and calculus based physics. Only one med school would adjust her lowly GPA of 3.5 to take those issues into consideration.
The failure of med schools to normalize GPAs is the reason that only about 12% of the med school matriculants at allopathic schools are physical science majors. It's smarter to slither your way in than to take on the toughest challenges. It stinks but it's true.🙁😡
My daughter went to a college that ranked highly on the National Science Foundation's Survey of Earned Doctorates, majored in chemistry and took 20 science classes as an undergrad including two terms of calculus and calculus based physics. Only one med school would adjust her lowly GPA of 3.5 to take those issues into consideration.
The failure of med schools to normalize GPAs is the reason that only about 12% of the med school matriculants at allopathic schools are physical science majors. It's smarter to slither your way in than to take on the toughest challenges. It stinks but it's true.🙁😡
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QFMFT
I'm so glad I wasn't really pre-med till the end of my sophomore year. I grew up a LOT in my first two years of college...I'm definitely a different person than I was in high school. That's what college is about...growing up. It's good to have goals in mind but don't let them rule your every waking second. Enjoy your time, take pride in your education and do well, and do stuff you like doing. Med school will work out if you do all that.
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I agree about the majors thing, and think that's unfortunate. I'm a physical sciences guy, and the GPA throughout the major was killer. The main question here is about choosing schools rather than majors though - and in that case, I think you should go with the best you can get, even if the competition is a little tougher. I also think that it is incredibly hard to predict how easy grading is going to be just by the rank of the school as there are some nameless schools that have incredibly hard grading policies, and some extremely good schools that are notorious for 'grade inflation'. There are, of course, certain exceptions to this rule (e.g., MIT and Berkeley both are notoriously tough on premeds).
In my mind, one of the worst aspects of physical science majors as far as premeds are concerns is that the courses get tougher, not easier, and you move into upper division coursework. You're going to have a really tough time in physical organic chemistry, biophysics, quantum mechanics, etc if you weren't able to ace the introductory versions of those courses.
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heres what you do.
choose the college campus that best fits your needs and desires. if the only desire in your life is to get into medical school to suffer for 4 years, and then suffer for however many years in residency then do what you think would get you there. But understand that there is more to life than getting into med school.
choose the college campus that best fits your needs and desires. if the only desire in your life is to get into medical school to suffer for 4 years, and then suffer for however many years in residency then do what you think would get you there. But understand that there is more to life than getting into med school.
