good hours

[the prodogy]

---

Members don't see this ad.

what r some specialties with good hours that doesnt require the doc to be on call?

 

[DocWahwee]

Be a teacher.... weekends, holidays, and summers off... there problem solved





sorry, I get sarcastic when I'm tired...but serriously, focus on finding something you love rather than easy street.

 

[ProteinTreasure]

DocWahwee is right! You may wanna go into teaching, and you will still be a doctor.

 

[thechad]

When did, "Teacher," become a specialty?

 

[nlax30]

Always going to be some trade-offs but depends on what your preference is...... 8am-5pm type hours? Certain amount of hours per week no matter the schedule? Or is no call more important? Etc....

 

[TMP-SMX]

what r some specialties with good hours that doesnt require the doc to be on call?

Derm. Good luck getting into it though. You are going to have to put in all the hours during medical school to make up for it.

 

[the prodogy]

Always going to be some trade-offs but depends on what your preference is...... 8am-5pm type hours? Certain amount of hours per week no matter the schedule? Or is no call more important? Etc....

I would like a job that has the 8-5 hours, but I wouldn't like to be on call. As a doctor, I would love to have a set schedule where I only work 40-45 hours a week

 

[BigRedBeta]

Move to Australia...their interns are only contracted for 38 hours a week, and then they get overtime pay. I'm in the first week of an international rotation here and everyone's pretty much in shock over the idea of an 80 hour work week like we have here in the US.

 

[greg1184]

I would like a job that has the 8-5 hours, but I wouldn't like to be on call. As a doctor, I would love to have a set schedule where I only work 40-45 hours a week

Tell that to your interviewer and see how many med schools you get accepted in.

 

[Dr Roboto]

I would like a job that has the 8-5 hours, but I wouldn't like to be on call. As a doctor, I would love to have a set schedule where I only work 40-45 hours a week

Outside of derm, those are part-time hours.

 

[quiltlady]

Maybe psych in private practice you could do that,or as a part-time peds in a large group practice. How about hospitalist? You would have set hours.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Outside of derm, those are part-time hours.

em?? although you couldnt work 9-5....

OP your best bet is to become a secretary.

 

[Long Dong]

Well the term doctor from latin means teacher. But yeah derm gots it good.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

em?? although you couldnt work 9-5....

OP your best bet is to become a secretary.

Insulting post. The question is perfectly legitimate. Not everyone defines themselves by their work/profession. Lots of people are interested in many things outside of it and see it solely as a source of honestly obtained income.

OP: derm is one. rad onc is another but it requires tons of reading and keeping up on the literature and the patients you see are probably sicker. radiology possibly. allergy immunology is also, but it will require a grueling IM residency. of these, derm and A/I enjoy lesser prestige than other fields. radiology and rad onc, however, are probably respected equally to most other fields because they're not as much of a niche and deal with all kinds of (often complicated) cases.

Other than those four, it has to be something part time or shift work. Shift work is IM or peds hospitalist or EM. Part time is potentially probably anything nonsurgical. However, know that for a lot of part-time you'll take a bigger than 1/2 cut because they have to cover your overhead and you'll still have to do full call.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Insulting post. The question is perfectly legitimate. Not everyone defines themselves by their work/profession. Lots of people are interested in many things outside of it and see it solely as a source of honestly obtained income.

OP: derm is one. rad onc is another but it requires tons of reading and keeping up on the literature and the patients you see are probably sicker. radiology possibly. allergy immunology is also, but it will require a grueling IM residency. of these, derm and A/I enjoy lesser prestige than other fields. radiology and rad onc, however, are probably respected equally to most other fields because they're not as much of a niche and deal with all kinds of (often complicated) cases.

Other than those four, it has to be something part time or shift work. Shift work is IM or peds hospitalist or EM. Part time is potentially probably anything nonsurgical. However, know that for a lot of part-time you'll take a bigger than 1/2 cut because they have to cover your overhead and you'll still have to do full call.

how was it insulting.........it seems far fetched to find a 40 hour/week job in almost any specialty. The average radiologist works 55 hours/week, rad onc is greater than 40....

 

[the prodogy]

What about EM? I heard they usually only work close to 40 hours a week, where some work three 12 hour shifts. Obviously, as a resident, you'd be working more

 

[WellWornLad]

I would like a job that has the 8-5 hours, but I wouldn't like to be on call. As a doctor, I would love to have a set schedule where I only work 40-45 hours a week

Please tell me you're trolling.

 

[thechad]

Please tell me you're trolling.

I don't think it's as impossible as you guys make it out to be. As far as I know, hospitalist do 12 hour shifts a few days a week (like mentioned above for EM) with little or no call. You can also join a group practice if you want to go that route.

I know a few physiatrist who don't work very many hours, probably around 40 (and they don't work very hard either 🙂)

However, the whole 9-5 thing is probably for other fields (not medicine), but you certainly don't have to work 70+ hours/week for the rest of your life.

 

[the prodogy]

I don't think it's as impossible as you guys make it out to be. As far as I know, hospitalist do 12 hour shifts a few days a week (like mentioned above for EM) with little or no call. You can also join a group practice if you want to go that route.

I know a few physiatrist who don't work very many hours, probably around 40 (and they don't work very hard either 🙂)

However, the whole 9-5 thing is probably for other fields (not medicine), but you certainly don't have to work 70+ hours/week for the rest of your life.

Yeah, I figured that 9-5 thing would most likely be impossible unless you open your own practice. I've heard of EM and PM&R's having really good schedules though. I was just thinking if there were anymore specialties that has like that with little or no call. Thanks for the responses though

 

[Tiger26]

What about EM? I heard they usually only work close to 40 hours a week, where some work three 12 hour shifts. Obviously, as a resident, you'd be working more

Yeah, true, but those shifts are at the most random times. You'll spend just as much time recovering on sleep as you spend working.

 

[justtesting]

Yeah, true, but those shifts are at the most random times. You'll spend just as much time recovering on sleep as you spend working.

this may not be a specialty, but how about family practice? That's 9-5 Mon through Friday no weekends no call or at least close to that description.

 

[nlax30]

this may not be a specialty, but how about family practice? That's 9-5 Mon through Friday no weekends no call or at least close to that description.

It is a specialty, and the only way you won't have nights, weekends or call time is if you have someone else manage your admitted patients. Just about all FP docs I've talked with stay VERY busy.


If you want absolutely no call then ER or something like derm or hospitalist type of IM would be top options in my mind. In the ED you may have some odd hours but in some groups that I've had a little exposure to the docs had a large role in making their schedule and it seemed pretty flexible in that they KNEW before hand when they would and would not be working so they can plan other life stuff around it, and if they had something coming up they needed to plan around then they could adjust their schedule accordingly. That alone is probably going to play a huge role when it comes time for me to decide.

 

[IHeartNerds]

I might suggest NP or PA. Better hours, no call. And you'll make almost as much as a peds allergist, who still works more than 40 hours a week.

Unless you work part time or in ED, your chances of working 40 hours a week in medicine are zero. Most dermatologists or radiologists that make big dollars work tons of hours.

 

[CorazonDoc]

Family Practice can have good hours. And yes, FP is a specialty. In towns with pop >40,000 you can generally find a private practice where Docs work 8 or 9 to 5 for 4 days a week. Call can vary, but many groups share call so that your responsibilities are 1 night every 15-20 with 1 weekend call every two months thrown in.

Depending on location, you can still make decent money. The group I rotated through in my 3rd year in a more rural area worked these kind of hours and were making around 200,000 annually, although this is the higher end of the FP spectrum. The more urban you get, the less you'll make.

The other end of the spectrum are Fam Docs in small towns that do OB. They can work crazy hours, but I still think FP is the kind of specialty that can have more controllable hours.

 

[kastle6797]

don't forget about pathology and ophthalmology

 

[thechad]

Unless you work part time or in ED, your chances of working 40 hours a week in medicine are zero.

So you're saying you either work 20 hours a week or 60? No middle ground?

:sigh:

 

[thechad]

don't forget about pathology and ophthalmology

And psychiatry.

I don't know why everyone thinks this is all or nothing. Either work all the time or none of the time.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

For certain specialties, your overhead costs are static, so you want to get as many hours in as possible.

Let's take a prototypical Family practitioner who starts his own practice. He has to pay for his physical office (rent) and his staff such as nurses (not only hour wages, but health care benefits/etc, and most are going to want a guarantee of hours to work around 40 hours a week). In addition, he has to pay a yearly malpractice rate which doesn't scale to how many hours he works. So with this set up, it's in his best interest to see as many patients to get the most out of all those other overhead costs.

Now, you can definitely can find part time work in some fields. In more "shift" type specialties (Emergency, Radiology, Pathology, Anesthesiology) a large enough private practice group might be willing to take on some part time people. In certain fields you can also find some locums work part time, but that's a whole other huge topic.

 

[shnuffles]

I might suggest NP or PA. Better hours, no call. And you'll make almost as much as a peds allergist, who still works more than 40 hours a week.

Unless you work part time or in ED, your chances of working 40 hours a week in medicine are zero. Most dermatologists or radiologists that make big dollars work tons of hours.

Not exactly true...if you're a surgical PA you'll take call and will have to be prepared to go in to assist on major surgeries whenever the doc is on call.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

EM is also a lifestyle specialty to an extent but that's because it is shift based. You may work 12 hours one day have the next day off and work 12 hours the next day. You may work a few 12 hour shifts in a row but then get a few days off in a row. Not exactly sure of the specifics but that's what I get out of it.

The thing with EM is that it is shift work, but those shifts are not always desirable. Especially if you are a junior attending, in some places you will be working a lot of late shifts, weekends, etc.

 

[Law2Doc]

The thing with EM is that it is shift work, but those shifts are not always desirable. Especially if you are a junior attending, in some places you will be working a lot of late shifts, weekends, etc.

Agreed. You may be working the 3pm to 3am shift enough that it screws up your schedule. Few people not into EM would consider that a "better" schedule than other specialties notwithstanding that the net number of hours may be less.

Truth of the matter is that while exceptions do exist for the lucky few or those who are willing to sacrifice much of their income and career potential in exchange for better hours, medicine in general is a very very bad career path to select if you want reasonable hours. You will not be working a 40 hour work week in medicine. 60 hours is pretty much the average. And a lot of specialties, including family practice, are seeing their hours skyrocket upwards, thanks to a decline in reimbursements -- they have to work more hours each year just to earn the same amount they earned last year. You are seeing this pattern replicated throughout medicine. Suffice it to say this is a field you are going to be expected to work hard in, or have to sacrifice a lot. There are folks in medicine working 45 hours/week and being paid as part-time employees, with no benefits. And the way expenses like professional liability insurance work, it's always cheaper for a practice to hire one person to work 60 hours than two to work 30, so the incentive to let folks work part time is often not there. So again, this is simply a bad career path to get on if a 9-5 lifestyle is important to you. Anyone who cites otherwise is citing an exception you probably won't get. It's a long houred profession, plain and simple. Deviations from this are hard fought for and becoming rarer every day as many people who are lifestyle oriented snap them up. If 9-5 is important to you get off this track quick. Far more people work 5-9...

 

[Trismegistus4]

The thing with EM is that it is shift work, but those shifts are not always desirable. Especially if you are a junior attending, in some places you will be working a lot of late shifts, weekends, etc.

The one reason what gujuDoc said may still be valid is that some people consider EM a "lifestyle" specialty solely because it's shift-based work as opposed to requiring call schedules. To some people, not carrying a pager when outside of the hospital = "lifestyle specialty" regardless of the typical hours. Not saying I agree with that--I'd much prefer a typical endocrinologist's call experience, for example, over working 12-hour night shifts three nights in a row--but a lot of people seem to think that way.

That said, we all know that if the OP is serious medicine is not his best bet.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Too much talk, not enough info.
Do any of these: psychiatry, PM&R, pathology, ophthalmology, dermatology
Be prepared to work hard in med school for the latter ones. If you want to be a doctor but don't want to do the 80+ hours a week plus call you don't have to and don't let others tell you otherwise.

 

[fahimaz7]

Most dermatologists or radiologists that make big dollars work tons of hours.

My father-in-law just brought in $693,000 (on his W-2) and he worked 165 days last year.

IR Neuroradiology ftw.

If your wondering why he told me this, it's b/c I was working on my wife's FASFA and had to put in his information.

On a side note, he paid $285,000 in federal taxes alone.

 

[paintballdoc]

OP,

1. Do what will make you happy. It will be beneficial to you that you realize you do not want to work 100+ hours. Working 9a-5p may not be realistic, though.

2. You are always on call for the patients you have a relationship with--even if you are a dermatologist. It is poor form to excise a lesion and tell them to "go to the ER" after hours. I personally know of dermatologists staying by the phone (not literally) for their patients after they have performed surgery that day.

3. Things are changing. There is a battle brewing about taking call for the hospital. I assume this is what you are talking about. Many doctors, including Ortho and many other surgical specialists, are no longer taking call. If they are, they are getting paid by the hospital to do it--handsomely. So even if you are taking call in the future, you may be paid for your time. Not too bad of a deal if you are interested in making money.

Hope this helps.

 

[SocialistMD]

It is a specialty, and the only way you won't have nights, weekends or call time is if you have someone else manage your admitted patients. Just about all FP docs I've talked with stay VERY busy.

That depends on your practice. Most of the FPs I know make social stops to see their hospitalized patients and help to manage any chronic medical problems (i.e. thyroid disorders, depression, etc...) but pretty much leave the reason for admission to the specialists in the hospital. Some even defer to the hospitalists to take point in management and truly only see their patients in a social capacity.

 

[Trismegistus4]

Too much talk, not enough info.
Do any of these: psychiatry, PM&R, pathology, ophthalmology, dermatology
Be prepared to work hard in med school for the latter ones. If you want to be a doctor but don't want to do the 80+ hours a week plus call you don't have to and don't let others tell you otherwise.

Yeah, psychiatry's easy to match into. Make $300k/year prescribing Xanax to desperate housewives. It's a route I'm considering for myself.

 

[Law2Doc]

My father-in-law just brought in $693,000 (on his W-2) and he worked 165 days last year.

IR Neuroradiology ftw....

Citing a rare exception isn't compelling. Around here, though the pay is good, the IR folks work surgeon's hours -- 80+ hours per week over the course of a whole year, minus a few weeks vacation. There will always be a rare exception out there like you found, but unless you can show he is the average (which I'm sure he's not), it should provide no solace to anyone on this thread who is more likely to be average than an exception. On SDN it is rarely helpful to find some unique individual out there and point to his hours or salary as useful evidence. Anecdotal evidence is meaningless. You need to know what MOST people are able to get, or it's simply like buying some art at a street fair and expecting it to fetch as much as a Van Gogh.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Law2Doc:

I'm going to call BS on your many "professionalism" pronouncements. First you were saying that engineers weren't professionals. Now you're saying that doctors essentially can't work less than 60 hours a week.

Maybe YOU want to work 60+ or 80+ hour workweeks. But not everyone does. And there are many paths to work easier hours - they may not be as good for prestigious career development (of course not), but if prestige doesn't matter, there is no concern for academic titles or tenure or partner or things of this nature, a doctor can work part time, locum tenens, shift work (hospitalist, EM), lighter specialties, etc.

I've heard of the pediatrician husband wife pair where each works 3 days a week and they exchange watching over kids. I know an anesthesiologist at a major academic center (top 5), who conducts some research, has good hours, takes vacation all the time, even can leave work at 4 to coach his daughter's soccer games. His wife is a psychiatrist, who after dropping off the kids to school, goes and visits elderly patients in their homes part time and then picks the kids up at the end of the day. There's people who do locum tenens 6 or 8 or 10 months a year and then take months of vacation in foreign countries.

If exorbitant cash (i.e. 300k+ or even 200k+), tenure, prestige, partner, etc. are not your aims in life, you can make a good and stable living in medicine and nurture relationships with other people and outside interests. It all depends on whether you put career first or other things in life.

 

[Law2Doc]

Law2Doc:

I'm going to call BS on your many "professionalism" pronouncements. First you were saying that engineers weren't professionals. Now you're saying that doctors essentially can't work less than 60 hours a week.
.

The two are unrelated discussions. There are multiple definitions of "professional" out there, and I was arguing that by some definitions, engineering doesn't fit. But that's irrelevant to the current discussion.

It is naive to go into a profession where the AVERAGE hours are about 60 hours a week and say "I want to work 9 to 5". That's being unrealistic. I'm not saying folks can't work less than 60 hours a week. I'm saying that most don't, because the opportunities for this that don't undermine your career or salary aren't that plentiful. I'm not saying I or anybody "wants" to work 60-80 hours per week. I'm saying that this is a profession where the norm is to work long hours, and so you are going to be looking for the exception, not the rule if you want to work less. This is so the case that I'd suggest that if working a very normal 9-5 lifestyle is that important to you, then this is a very bad path. I'm not saying some people don't manage to get that unique manageable position, or that we all can't find a few anecdotal examples of this. Just saying it isn't the norm and a lot of folks are downplaying how hard/unrealistic this is going to be to make it happen.

The person who only wants to work 9-5 is rarely the person that puts in the kind of effort it takes to land derm. ED is not for everybody, and I was just talking to an ED doc who said there is often a large exodus from the field because too many people go into ED for the cush hours and don't realize that it has a lot of undesirable overnight shifts and that if you don't enjoy something, doing it in 3-4 shifts a week doesn't really make it more palatable. Probably the same can be said for any lifestyle field.

I think there's a difference between "putting your career first" and tanking it. You have to strike a balance, and in medicine, you are going to be very hard pressed to find a combo of short hours that doesn't derail your career very significantly. I think a lot of people would work shorter hours if it didn't take them totally off track for future career development, but in most cases it doesn't work that way. You either choose a dead end lower paying path with more free time, or you keep a career progression going but have to work a bit longer than you'd like. It's true in most professional fields and definitely true in medicine. this is a career that for most is going to last 30-40 years, and it can take you many places if you don't close all the doors to career progression at the onset.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

The two are unrelated discussions. There are multiple definitions of "professional" out there, and I was arguing that by some definitions, engineering doesn't fit. But that's irrelevant to the current discussion.

It is naive to go into a profession where the AVERAGE hours are about 60 hours a week and say "I want to work 9 to 5". That's being unrealistic. I'm not saying folks can't work less than 60 hours a week. I'm saying that most don't, because the opportunities for this that don't undermine your career or salary aren't that plentiful. I'm not saying I or anybody "wants" to work 60-80 hours per week. I'm saying that this is a profession where the norm is to work long hours, and so you are going to be looking for the exception, not the rule if you want to work less. This is so the case that I'd suggest that if working a very normal 9-5 lifestyle is that important to you, then this is a very bad path. I'm not saying some people don't manage to get that unique manageable position, or that we all can't find a few anecdotal examples of this. Just saying it isn't the norm and a lot of folks are downplaying how hard/unrealistic this is going to be to make it happen.

The person who only wants to work 9-5 is rarely the person that puts in the kind of effort it takes to land derm. ED is not for everybody, and I was just talking to an ED doc who said there is often a large exodus from the field because too many people go into ED for the cush hours and don't realize that it has a lot of undesirable overnight shifts and that if you don't enjoy something, doing it in 3-4 shifts a week doesn't really make it more palatable. Probably the same can be said for any lifestyle field.

I think there's a difference between "putting your career first" and tanking it. You have to strike a balance, and in medicine, you are going to be very hard pressed to find a combo of short hours that doesn't derail your career very significantly. I think a lot of people would work shorter hours if it didn't take them totally off track for future career development, but in most cases it doesn't work that way. You either choose a dead end lower paying path with more free time, or you keep a career progression going but have to work a bit longer than you'd like. It's true in most professional fields and definitely true in medicine.

I agree that it would be naive to go in thinking that the same sort of career development is possible with a 30-40 hour week as with a 60-70 hour week. It just isn't. That's quite clear. However, what I am saying is that if career doesn't mean anything to you but a stable, honorable (by this, I don't mean prestigious - just money earned honestly through hard work), decently-paying job, then you could absolutely make the sacrifices,if you don't care whether you make 100k or 500k. It's a question of life goals. Fortunately, medicine, unlike many other jobs, does allow for that flexibility. And it's not just derm and rad onc (which one could argue does require more than 9-5 hours, at least in terms of reading the literature). You can adjust your time in FP, IM, anesthesia (to a degree), PM&R, peds, etc. I agree that anything surgical or surgical subspecialty is out of the question. But not everyone has a burning desire to do these jobs, considering the sacrifices they entail.

 

[Hallm_7]

Emergency Medicine attendings work between 32-48 hours typically. Hours-wise that's pretty good, but those hours are a mixture of mornings, afternoons, nights, overnights, holidays, weekends, etc. Also, you won't find a specialty that works harder for the hours they are at work. I was logged close to 80 hours a week on a vascular surgery service, and that was a cakewalk when compared to a month of logging 55 hours a week for EM.

Pathology, anesthesia, ophtho, derm, rads, psych, and PM&R can all have 40 hour work weeks pretty easily. You can obviously earn more working 50 or 60 hours a week, but that would be entirely your choice. You can also do it in most of the other specialties if you search really hard for positions and are willing to work in places other than a large community hospital. I worked with a general surgeon at a rural hospital that worked no more than 40 hours a week (and those hours were pretty light in terms of patient and operating load). I'm sure his pay was significantly less than his colleagues' pay at the larger hospitals, but he was happy.

Most people work long hours because they choose to work long hours. For the pay, the desire to help people, or whatever. But you do not have to work those same hours if you choose not to.

 

[SocialistMD]

I was logged close to 80 hours a week on a vascular surgery service, and that was a cakewalk when compared to a month of logging 55 hours a week for EM.

That is because you are a medical student rotating on those services.

 

[Law2Doc]

Pathology, anesthesia, ophtho, derm, rads, psych, and PM&R can all have 40 hour work weeks pretty easily. ...

Not true for all of these. The average hours for both rads and gas are 60 hours per week. The others all average closer to 50. And a lot of these averages are bolstered by older, semi-retired physicians who are parts of a pared down business plan model that no longer exists for the current generation. There are definitely a handful of places that are well below average, as well as some part time options (particularly in psych, peds), but you are kidding yourself if you say you can come by these slots "pretty easily". They are progressively becoming hard fought (due to increased lifesyle focus of the current generation), or they come with a significant hit to career progression/salary.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Not true for all of these. The average hours for both rads and gas are 60 hours per week. The others all average closer to 50. And a lot of these averages are bolstered by older, semi-retired physicians who are parts of a pared down business plan model that no longer exists for the current generation. There are definitely a handful of places that are well below average, as well as some part time options (particularly in psych, peds), but you are kidding yourself if you say you can come by these slots "pretty easily". They are progressively becoming hard fought (due to increased lifesyle focus of the current generation), or they come with a significant hit to career progression/salary.

Agree with rads and gas being longer hours. They are known for their controllable schedules than a short work week. Do have to say that matching into psych should be easy for most US seniors. Path, gas, and PM&R are also well within the range of the majority of US grads.

 

[Dral]

I'm currently working with an internal med physician who just started up a practice a few months ago.

Our schedule:
Monday 8:30 to 7.
Tues, Wed, Thurs 8:30 to 5.

The physician has no call and no hospital responsibilities.

It can be done. Keep in mind that a physician will not rake in a ton of money with a schedule like I mentioned. As long as the person is happy though (as is the case with the physician I work with) that's what matters.

 

[TopsyKrett]

Insulting post. The question is perfectly legitimate. Not everyone defines themselves by their work/profession. Lots of people are interested in many things outside of it and see it solely as a source of honestly obtained income.

I'm glad somebody said it. What's wrong with wanting a life outside of medicine?

 

[Blesbok]

Insulting post. The question is perfectly legitimate. Not everyone defines themselves by their work/profession. Lots of people are interested in many things outside of it and see it solely as a source of honestly obtained income.

OP: derm is one. rad onc is another but it requires tons of reading and keeping up on the literature and the patients you see are probably sicker. radiology possibly. allergy immunology is also, but it will require a grueling IM residency. of these, derm and A/I enjoy lesser prestige than other fields. radiology and rad onc, however, are probably respected equally to most other fields because they're not as much of a niche and deal with all kinds of (often complicated) cases.

Other than those four, it has to be something part time or shift work. Shift work is IM or peds hospitalist or EM. Part time is potentially probably anything nonsurgical. However, know that for a lot of part-time you'll take a bigger than 1/2 cut because they have to cover your overhead and you'll still have to do full call.

Why is that an insulting post? I don't know too many secretaries that are on call at night or on the weekends. Fact of the matter is that they work 8-5 jobs.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

The one reason what gujuDoc said may still be valid is that some people consider EM a "lifestyle" specialty solely because it's shift-based work as opposed to requiring call schedules. To some people, not carrying a pager when outside of the hospital = "lifestyle specialty" regardless of the typical hours. Not saying I agree with that--I'd much prefer a typical endocrinologist's call experience, for example, over working 12-hour night shifts three nights in a row--but a lot of people seem to think that way.

That said, we all know that if the OP is serious medicine is not his best bet.

the ED docs I got to know had a call schedule, I recall that there was always 1 doc on call; I was shown their schedule by one of the docs that I got to know well. This schedule covered 3-4 local hospitals that were served by the docs that participated in this group; it may have been one doc on call for ALL of the hospitals rather than one on-call doc per hospital.

I was surprised by how large the premium was for an ED doc to do a night shift - quite a few hundred dollars' to do that shift versus the preferred day shifts. Their shifts were 8 or 10 hrs, definitely not 12 hours although often they worked a couple hours later than expected. Was also surprised how many people were in the ED against their will - psych patients, people brought in by the police, etc. There are some lifestyle issues related to holding down a violent HIV+ drug abuser who wants OUT, also.

note to OP : my relative who is an ED doc averages 40 hrs per week over a normal month.

 

[atomi]

Good hour specialties or lifestyle specialties include Rads, Derm, to an extent Rad Onco. These 3 being some of the most competitive because they are both high paying and lower hours.

That is not why they are competitive.