Good med students: Don't let this forum scare you away from Pathology!

[Whetherby]

To the good med students out there who are considering a career in pathology: Don't let the numerous threads on this forum regarding the bad job market in pathology scare you away!

I say this not because I disagree with these threads, but because I think there are two different pathology job markets out there: one for good residents, and one for marginal/bad residents.

In my experience, there are two completely different groups of people who go into pathology:

1-Excellent med students/MD's who choose pathology because they love histologic diagnostics, laboratory medicine, or the research opportunities that tend to be connected with pathology

2-Marginal med students/MD's who choose pathology to avoid direct patient interaction because of poor language skills, generally poor medical training, etc.

Those from the first category usually get excellent jobs, whether in private practice, clinically-based academics, or research-based academics. Those from the second category have trouble. Other factors such as geographic limitations obviously play into it as well, but the quality of the resident is by far the most important factor.

Pathology needs good physicians as much as any other field (if not more, considering how many ridiculous diagnoses I see in the consults coming through my institution), and based on this forum I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of good med students who are considering this field are scared away. I have no doubt that the job market for marginal residents will continue to be crappy due to the overabundance of training positions, but there are excellent jobs out there for good residents with good diagnostic abilities and good communication skills.

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[Granular]

I say this not because I disagree with these threads, but because I think there are two different pathology job markets out there: one for good residents, and one for marginal/bad residents.
....

I have no doubt that the job market for marginal residents will continue to be crappy due to the overabundance of training positions, but there are excellent jobs out there for good residents with good diagnostic abilities and good communication skills.

Just like Santa Claus brings toys to the kids on the nice list, and lumps of coal for kids on the naughty list. Santa Claus is real.....you just have to believe.

 

[2121115]

To the good med students out there who are considering a career in pathology: Don't let the numerous threads on this forum regarding the bad job market in pathology scare you away!

I say this not because I disagree with these threads, but because I think there are two different pathology job markets out there: one for good residents, and one for marginal/bad residents.

In my experience, there are two completely different groups of people who go into pathology:

1-Excellent med students/MD's who choose pathology because they love histologic diagnostics, laboratory medicine, or the research opportunities that tend to be connected with pathology

2-Marginal med students/MD's who choose pathology to avoid direct patient interaction because of poor language skills, generally poor medical training, etc.

Those from the first category usually get excellent jobs, whether in private practice, clinically-based academics, or research-based academics. Those from the second category have trouble. Other factors such as geographic limitations obviously play into it as well, but the quality of the resident is by far the most important factor.

Pathology needs good physicians as much as any other field (if not more, considering how many ridiculous diagnoses I see in the consults coming through my institution), and based on this forum I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of good med students who are considering this field are scared away. I have no doubt that the job market for marginal residents will continue to be crappy due to the overabundance of training positions, but there are excellent jobs out there for good residents with good diagnostic abilities and good communication skills.

I think this may be the only way to understand the wildly different perspectives seen on this issue. However, the overabundance of poor/marginal trainees hurts the rest of the field and the "good" trainees out there see their prospects less than they would be if not for this oversupply of "marginal" trainees. Here is the underlying issue for medical students though- all trainees assume that they are in the "good" group. Ask anyone and they will tell you it is everyone else who are the marginal trainees. As a current trainee, while I don't want to be overly presumptuous and assume that I am in the "good" group, I certainly think that I have excellent training and have demonstrated broad interests and skills. However, I'm sure everyone thinks that. How do you know if you are in the "marginal" group? You don't know until you can't find a job.

 

[Granular]

I say this not because I disagree with these threads, but because I think there are two different pathology job markets out there: one for good residents, and one for marginal/bad residents.

Those from the first category usually get excellent jobs, whether in private practice, clinically-based academics, or research-based academics. Those from the second category have trouble. Other factors such as geographic limitations obviously play into it as well, but the quality of the resident is by far the most important factor.

So UNC has an unfunded opening for a hemepath fellow:

http://www.pathologyoutlines.com/fellowships.html#unchemat

Hemepath is competitive and is good on one's CV in the job hunt. However, this is a volunteer position. Who will fill it? In theory, a good pathology resident would be able to find a presumably more desirable funded fellowship. A bad pathology resident would not be competitive for this position, but is more likely to apply since they would have trouble in the lower tier of the job market.

I have not encountered previous advertisements for unfunded fellowships; do these exist in other fields of medicine? The academics who advertised this must know how bad the job market is and realize they can continue to exploit pathology trainees at no additional cost. I guess after four years they lose the govt subsidy, but free labor by BC/BE pathologists is probably not a bad deal for them. Maybe next year they can offer more volunteer positions, even some that are not ACGME approved. Is this what the good medical students that go into pathology should look forward to?

 

[Thrombus]

In my experience, there are two completely different groups of people who go into pathology:

1-Excellent med students/MD's who choose pathology because they love histologic diagnostics, laboratory medicine, or the research opportunities that tend to be connected with pathology

2-Marginal med students/MD's who choose pathology to avoid direct patient interaction because of poor language skills, generally poor medical training, etc.

This is a ridiculous assumption.

Again, even if you DO get a good job, the whole field is in trouble because of the oversupply....the following not only occurs but is to be expected if you choose a career in the field of pathology
Unethical, illegal practices will take away your business.

You will have huge conflict of interest issues -- to serve the clinician's best interest rather than the patient's.

You will have very little punch at the negotiation table when dealing with hospitals, insurance companies, the gov't and other regulatory agencies, fellow colleagues in other fields, and yes even your employees

You will see your compensation DECREASE more significantly than other medical professions due to the above.

Get your head out of the sand, OP. You may have good intentions, but you have little perspective on what is going on out there in the real world, outside of your apparent ivory tower.

As someone else said in another thread, many of us were improperly warned and instead chose to listen to the more pleasant sounding sages, and we hope to sound the alarm for several reasons -- #1. To give accurate information to future colleagues in medicine and #2. Potentially reduce the number of pathologists by shining the light on what the field is like.

If the future of pathology was rosy with too much work and not enough workers, we would all be in unison asking for more help.

 

[raider]

I agree 101% with thrombus on those statements.

Go into pathology (as a fun hobby but do not depend on it for your livelihood) if:

1. You are independently wealthy.

2. Have no geographic preference.

 

[raider]

And Oh yes!

BE PREPARED TO BE OVERWORKED AND UNDERPAID!!!!

 

[docbiohazard]

Try to post something positive and it devolves into another thread about how terrible the job market is... this is why the SDN pathology forum is essentially useless except for gaining information about various programs when you're applying for residency and not much else.

I can remember people used to post interesting cases, diagnostic challenges, threads about the value of different texts, different scopes, etc. Even the video game thread was an entertaining diversion. Can't the job market threads be amalgamated into a single thread for people to hash it out on... do we really need a new job market thread every other day? Maybe stick everything on a job market sub forum to declutter the main forum?

DBH

 

[Gene_]

Try to post something positive and it devolves into another thread about how terrible the job market is... this is why the SDN pathology forum is essentially useless except for gaining information about various programs when you're applying for residency and not much else.

I can remember people used to post interesting cases, diagnostic challenges, threads about the value of different texts, different scopes, etc. Even the video game thread was an entertaining diversion. Can't the job market threads be amalgamated into a single thread for people to hash it out on... do we really need a new job market thread every other day? Maybe stick everything on a job market sub forum to declutter the main forum?

DBH

I like the idea of jobs information (or misinformation) being inappropriate for the general forum. BTW, I'm a 4th year resident who has never seen a resident/fellow not find a job in the geographic area in which they were looking. So, apparently my head is stuck in the sand and I need to wise up to the real situation that's out there.

 

[docbiohazard]

I like the idea of jobs information (or misinformation) being inappropriate for the general forum. BTW, I'm a 4th year resident who has never seen a resident/fellow not find a job in the geographic area in which they were looking. So, apparently my head is stuck in the sand and I need to wise up to the real situation that's out there.

And it's not even that it's not appropriate to have the discussion, just that it really could all be threaded into a single discussion or organized in a single place. If I was posting a new thread every couple of days on diagnosing anaplastic large cell lymphomas, I think people would get tired of that and want me to combine them into a single thread as well.

Thanks for being brave enough to post something positive here at SDN. Steel yourself against the impending flames we will likely endure.

 

[Thrombus]

I like the idea of jobs information (or misinformation) being inappropriate for the general forum. BTW, I'm a 4th year resident who has never seen a resident/fellow not find a job in the geographic area in which they were looking. So, apparently my head is stuck in the sand and I need to wise up to the real situation that's out there.

I agree, jobs can be had for MOST people. But there are still many that I know who have a hard time securing a good job.

Most is not good enough. Call a recruiter and see where the job seekers outnumber the jobs!

Even those of us with jobs, the following applies.

If I need to be a broken record, I will -- until the following do not exist anymore.

The following not only occurs but is to be expected if you choose a career in the field of pathology:

You will have huge conflict of interest issues -- to serve the clinician's best interest rather than the patient's.

Unethical, illegal practices will take away your business.

You will have very little punch at the negotiation table when dealing with hospitals, insurance companies, the gov't and other regulatory agencies, fellow colleagues in other fields, and yes even your employees

You will see your compensation DECREASE more significantly than other medical professions due to the above.

Several years ago, many people bought up real estate in Vegas, Phoenix, Florida, and many other places with MUCH LESS OF A WARNING and without as many RED FLAGS. Look at the outcome. Do not heed the advice of the soothsayer who has ulterior motives to bask in his academia-type job while he tirelessly works and abuses in many cases a hopeless resident workforce.

 

[Thrombus]

I like the idea of jobs information (or misinformation) being inappropriate for the general forum. BTW, I'm a 4th year resident who has never seen a resident/fellow not find a job in the geographic area in which they were looking. So, apparently my head is stuck in the sand and I need to wise up to the real situation that's out there.

Why censor information? What good would this do? Shield more people from reality?

Don't get me wrong. I love the practice of pathology in an ideal world. If given the chance to do it over though, there is no way I would do it. As a 3rd/4th year med student, I had 1 guy tell me to run as far away as I could, however the overwhelming number of people told me there are no problems.

Pathology sucks right now. It sucks. If you don't believe it, wait til you start your job (if somehow you have been shielded from the current market forces).

 

[JPR22]

Maybe it's not a bad choice for everyone... To the IMG with no debt and no geogrphical restricitions, at the very least it provides 4+ years of a moderately well paying job with benefits. That said, it's way too risky for someone with 200k of loans to go into.

 

[yaah]

I can remember people used to post interesting cases, diagnostic challenges, threads about the value of different texts, different scopes, etc. Even the video game thread was an entertaining diversion. Can't the job market threads be amalgamated into a single thread for people to hash it out on... do we really need a new job market thread every other day? Maybe stick everything on a job market sub forum to declutter the main forum?

Eh, it isn't that much clutter. I agree the "THEY TOOK ERRR JOBS" threads are annoying but you can always ignore them. It is possible to merge them into a mega thread, but that would cause far more trouble than it's worth. Unfortunately, the current cycle of people using this forum includes a lot of people who like to kick and scream and lecture, but aren't really interested in having a lot of real discussion (unless it's about how right they are, of course).

This forum goes in cycles - a lot of it depends on who sticks around and posts after they go through application cycles, what motivates them, etc. A lot of people bail after they match - this is true of every forum. I don't have as much time as I used to (some of it is work related, a lot of it is baby related) to post cases and things like that. It would be nice to have other discussions from time to time other than THEY TOOK ERR JOBS though. This forum will always have the requisite posts on "does anyone know about program X?" and questions from people who know very little about the field, those questions are fairly constant. It's what makes up the rest that matters more.

 

[Sulfinator]

- a lot of it depends on who sticks around and posts after they go through application cycles, what motivates them, etc. A lot of people bail after they match - this is true of every forum.

I promise, yaah, that I won't be one of those that disappears after I match. I'm in it for the long haul! If I haven't posted in a long time after mid-March, you can assume I have been kidnapped/killed. In the event that that happens, please file a missing persons report and organize a search party.

 

[2121115]

I am a 4th year resident and I have been on the forum under one screen name or another since I was a 4th year medical student. I can tell you that there used to me much less talk about the job market and it was mainly LADoc going on and on about how bad the job market was in LA and how much better it was in his new non-LA location. The general consensus then was that outside of the coasts (in "fly over country", mainly the midwest, the south, and the rural west coast) the job market was decent and the standard well trained trainee could land a good job. If I recall correctly, Great Pumpkin had no fellowship and trained at a "non-top 10 list" program and was able to land a 3-years-to-partnership track position (mid west I think).

Now there is much more negative posting and the general consensus seems to be that the standard trainee is, in fact, not well trained and that the only good jobs anymore are in cities of less than 500k people regardless of the region of the country. Even posters from larger cities in the mid-west (St. Louis, Chicago, etc) are saying things are bad.

I don't know if it is just a different batch of posters or if things really are worse than they were when I started residency. I still want to be a pathologist and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that things work out.

 

[path24]

I wish this forum would have scared me. Worrying about employment sucks.

 

[Whetherby]

Unethical, illegal practices will take away your business.

You will have huge conflict of interest issues -- to serve the clinician's best interest rather than the patient's.

You will have very little punch at the negotiation table when dealing with hospitals, insurance companies, the gov't and other regulatory agencies, fellow colleagues in other fields, and yes even your employees

You will see your compensation DECREASE more significantly than other medical professions due to the above.

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CRYANFO%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]-->.In general, I would have to agree with these points, and with the fact that the current job market is in large part responsible. No doubt, the job market overall is not great. If it were, even mediocre residents would easily land good jobs, as they do in fields like derm, ortho, etc. Nevertheless, good residents still find excellent jobs, and these jobs are as good as anything else in all of medicine in terms of lifestyle, hours, salary, job satisfaction, etc., despite the negative influence of the undesirable situations described above.

A quick perusal of the topics on this forum would suggest that the entire field of pathology absolutely sucks. It does not. When I was choosing a residency, I was almost scared away from pathology because of this forum. I'm just glad that I didn't let that happen, because I love what I'm doing now. Granted, if I had trouble finding a job I might feel differently...but I didn't, and neither did most of the people I trained with. In fact, most of us have found really great jobs. The few who I've known who were bad diagnosticians or had bad communication skills certainly did have more trouble finding jobs, but even most of them eventually found something.

It seems to me that the goal of most of the negative posters on this forum is to scare people away from the field in an effort to reduce the oversupply. All it will really do is scare away the top people, who will choose another more marketable field, and leave positions open for the worse med students or foreign grads with poor language skills. Sorry if that's offfensive, but it's true. The only thing that will really reduce the oversupply is cutting back on the number of residency slots, which I agree should be done. Scaring the top med students away from the field will just create a less competent pathology work force.
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[Whetherby]

I think this may be the only way to understand the wildly different perspectives seen on this issue. However, the overabundance of poor/marginal trainees hurts the rest of the field and the "good" trainees out there see their prospects less than they would be if not for this oversupply of "marginal" trainees. Here is the underlying issue for medical students though- all trainees assume that they are in the "good" group. Ask anyone and they will tell you it is everyone else who are the marginal trainees. As a current trainee, while I don't want to be overly presumptuous and assume that I am in the "good" group, I certainly think that I have excellent training and have demonstrated broad interests and skills. However, I'm sure everyone thinks that. How do you know if you are in the "marginal" group? You don't know until you can't find a job.

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CRYANFO%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]-->.How do you know whether you are in the marginal group before you start the job search? Well, if you chose pathology because you weren't really very good at anything else...and probably weren't really all that good at pathology either...then you are probably a mediocre resident and will have trouble finding a job. If you chose pathology because you loved it despite the fact that you could have gotten into one of the more trendy fields, you are probably in the "good" group and will have no trouble when it comes time to look for jobs..

 

[pathgeek42]

Pathology groups receive numerous applications for a single advertised job, often the same day of posting. There seems to be an argument on this forum that only "marginal" residents have trouble job hunting. How does an employer know that one applicant is "good" and the other applicant is "marginal" in respects to diagnostic aptitude or communication skills before an interview. There are many "good" residents who never get a chance to show employers that they are indeed "good" because the volume of respondents is so high for each job. So, what makes somebody "good"? High RISE exam scores, high board scores, publications, college/medical school awards? How does one convey on a CV that they are "good" and not "marginal" when a job hunt really boils down to a CV volume war. I guess, if you send out your CV to 50 jobs you might have a better chance at interviewing than if you only send out 10. The argument posted about the job market revolves around this concept. A good job market would mean 10 or fewer applications. A poor job market is where you are sending your CV out to every available job posting and considering living in places that once would have made you laugh out loud at the very thought while you were in medical school.

It seems that some "good" residents get jobs because of their residency and the faculty/attendings willing to help out these people. It is really shameful for these so called "good" residents to claim that they are "good" over another resident who doesn't have this old boy network of jobs. By all accounts on paper, there are "marginal" residents who have CVs that could kick the crap out of "good" residents, but suffer from the fact that they attended residency in a place that didn't provide the same job searching perks as these prestigious names of the "good" residents. When you as a pathologist have to find a job completely on your own then you might find a little more difficulty in the job hunt. Not everybody is spoon fed. Some places with prestige get employers sending job advertisements to that residency only, so the job listing is unknown to the rest of the country. Not all "marginal" residents suffer from poor communication skills or a foreign sounding last name. Diagnostic skills don't get evaluated until you are granted an interview in most cases, so an employer doesn't know if you can identify a tubular adenoma under the scope, but they assume that all their job hunters can since they most likely all passed the boards.

Pathology is being eaten alive by business profits via pod labs, reference labs and greedy partners/administrators. The small pathology groups are having a harder time competing with these reference labs and soon, it may go the way of the small town corner pharmacy that was destroyed by wallgreens and rite aid. Pathology jobs are not as plentiful as other specialties and the available ones get taken fast. If you apply a week after it was posted online, chances are they won't even look at your resume from the vast volume of other responders. If you get lucky with a job offer, then consider yourself lucky and not "good."

 

[Whetherby]

Pathology groups receive numerous applications for a single advertised job, often the same day of posting. There seems to be an argument on this forum that only "marginal" residents have trouble job hunting. How does an employer know that one applicant is "good" and the other applicant is "marginal" in respects to diagnostic aptitude or communication skills before an interview. There are many "good" residents who never get a chance to show employers that they are indeed "good" because the volume of respondents is so high for each job. So, what makes somebody "good"? High RISE exam scores, high board scores, publications, college/medical school awards? How does one convey on a CV that they are "good" and not "marginal" when a job hunt really boils down to a CV volume war. I guess, if you send out your CV to 50 jobs you might have a better chance at interviewing than if you only send out 10. The argument posted about the job market revolves around this concept. A good job market would mean 10 or fewer applications. A poor job market is where you are sending your CV out to every available job posting and considering living in places that once would have made you laugh out loud at the very thought while you were in medical school.

It seems that some "good" residents get jobs because of their residency and the faculty/attendings willing to help out these people. It is really shameful for these so called "good" residents to claim that they are "good" over another resident who doesn't have this old boy network of jobs. By all accounts on paper, there are "marginal" residents who have CVs that could kick the crap out of "good" residents, but suffer from the fact that they attended residency in a place that didn't provide the same job searching perks as these prestigious names of the "good" residents. When you as a pathologist have to find a job completely on your own then you might find a little more difficulty in the job hunt. Not everybody is spoon fed. Some places with prestige get employers sending job advertisements to that residency only, so the job listing is unknown to the rest of the country. Not all "marginal" residents suffer from poor communication skills or a foreign sounding last name. Diagnostic skills don't get evaluated until you are granted an interview in most cases, so an employer doesn't know if you can identify a tubular adenoma under the scope, but they assume that all their job hunters can since they most likely all passed the boards.

Pathology is being eaten alive by business profits via pod labs, reference labs and greedy partners/administrators. The small pathology groups are having a harder time competing with these reference labs and soon, it may go the way of the small town corner pharmacy that was destroyed by wallgreens and rite aid. Pathology jobs are not as plentiful as other specialties and the available ones get taken fast. If you apply a week after it was posted online, chances are they won't even look at your resume from the vast volume of other responders. If you get lucky with a job offer, then consider yourself lucky and not "good."

Excellent residents will shine in their job applications in one way or another. Here's a clue: be actively involved in your program, work hard, read a lot, publish some papers, get along with other residents and attendings. If you do these things, you will have good things to put on your CV, attendings will like you, and you'll have good references. This will at least get you interviews, then you can let your diagnostic and other skills shine there. If you don't do these things, then you have only yourself to blame. Luck may play into it sometimes, but I have not known anyone who was a great resident who had trouble finding a desirable job. Were they all just lucky?

I found my job completely on my own. The only help I had from my residency and fellowship programs was to use them as references. In fact, I don't think I made a single job-relevant connection through my residency program. Almost everyone I trained with would tell you the same story, and we have all found good jobs.

I agree that not all marginal residents suffer from poor communications skills. Many just suffer from poor diagnostic skills. But poor communication skills plays into it as well, and this is especially common in our field because many people choose pathology specifically because they are weird people who have trouble interacting with others either because of communication skills or other social problems...then later they find out that employers actually want you to be able to talk to people. By the way, I'm certainly not suggesting that every FMG has poor communication skills or is a marginal resident in any other way. I trained with some FMG's who were among the smartest and most employable people I've known. Poor communication skill's doesn't only refer to English language skills.

If you don't think you can get into one of the top residency programs or you don't think you will be a very good pathology resident, then I agree you should go into something else. You would probably have an easier time getting a good job coming out of another field. But if you are an excellent med student, love pathology, and will likely match at a top program, you will get a job, and likely a very good one. That was my point in starting this thread.

 

[yaah]

Work ethic also plays into it. I knew residents who constantly come in late, leave early, have to have others cover for them, never volunteer to help anyone else out, are always rushed during signout or conferences because they aren't prepared, etc. And then they wonder why people don't go out of their way to help them in their job search (which they probably started too late and were disorganized about).

 

[spongioform]

For the 260+ AOA medical student who matches at a high caliber academic residency program, are the chances as bleak as discussed on this forum? I'm wondering if the job market is uniformly bad for all candidates or if the superstars are still getting great academic/private jobs. Thanks.

 

[KeratinPearls]

For the 260+ AOA medical student who matches at a high caliber academic residency program, are the chances as bleak as discussed on this forum? I'm wondering if the job market is uniformly bad for all candidates or if the superstars are still getting great academic/private jobs. Thanks.

Seems as if you go to a strong path program, you should defiinitely be able to find a good job. Stronger path programs also have numerous fellowships which you could land as an internal candidate. This, in turn, can equate to being highly marketable when it comes to jobs.

Go to the strongest path program you can get into in the area you want to practice is key (my opinion).

 

[Whetherby]

For the 260+ AOA medical student who matches at a high caliber academic residency program, are the chances as bleak as discussed on this forum? I'm wondering if the job market is uniformly bad for all candidates or if the superstars are still getting great academic/private jobs. Thanks.

Thank you for asking this - this is exactly my point! If you are that kind of med student, then go into whatever field you like most - I promise you, you will do just fine in the job hunt (assuming you work as hard in your residency as you presumably did in med school) nomatter what field you choose...including pathology. The superstars are still getting great jobs, especially those who start thinking about what kind of job they want early in the game.

In reference to Yaah's point about work ethic, I totally agree - work ethic probably makes a bigger difference than anything else. I knew a couple people in my residency who expected to do very little work and then were shocked that it's not a total cakewalk. These are the types of people who make a terrible impression on their attendings and then have trouble getting good recommendations and decent jobs. If you go into path, do it for the right reason (i.e. because you love it). Expect to do as much work in pathology as you would have done in any other residency, including medicine or surgery. In truth, a path residency is easier than than those, in my opinion, because you never have Q3 or Q4 call...but you have just as much knowledge to learn, if not more.