Good programs for private practice?

[Flighty]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Title says it all.

Thanks!
Flighty

 

[2121115]

Title says it all.

Thanks!
Flighty

In my opinion there are no particular programs that are good for one or the other. There are just good programs and not so good programs. Being on "clinical track" in academics and being in private practice aren't all that different, except for the "joy of working with residents and medical students" as someone put it in another thread. Most clinical track positions in academics these days are just signing out cases at a lower reimbursement than private practice. There are exceptions like people who are 70% research and sign out one organ system but these types of deals are becoming more uncommon and if you want to do these you need to get in a "name brand" program with a mentor who does what you want to do.

Just go to a good program and get good training and you'll be prepared for clinical track academics or PP.

 

[Entgegen]

In my opinion there are no particular programs that are good for one or the other. There are just good programs and not so good programs. Being on "clinical track" in academics and being in private practice aren't all that different, except for the "joy of working with residents and medical students" as someone put it in another thread. Most clinical track positions in academics these days are just signing out cases at a lower reimbursement than private practice. There are exceptions like people who are 70% research and sign out one organ system but these types of deals are becoming more uncommon and if you want to do these you need to get in a "name brand" program with a mentor who does what you want to do.

Just go to a good program and get good training and you'll be prepared for clinical track academics or PP.

Pardon my ignorance, but does "clinical track" academics still involve research, or is it simply working as a pathologist at an academic institution and teaching? Are there clinical track academic pathologists who don't do research?

 

[pathstudent]

Most clinical track positions in academics these days are just signing out cases at a lower reimbursement than private practice.

FYI, in a given city medicare reimburses academic pathologists the same as community ones. And insurance will reimburse them at least as much and likely more as the university is a bigger entity and able to negotiate higher reimbursements than some 4 person group.

 

[2121115]

FYI, in a given city medicare reimburses academic pathologists the same as community ones. And insurance will reimburse them at least as much and likely more as the university is a bigger entity and able to negotiate higher reimbursements than some 4 person group.

Hahahahahahahah! Good one!

 

[pathstudent]

Hahahahahahahah! Good one!

No it is true. Medicare doesn't have a reimbursement schedule for academics that is lower than private practice. THey pay everyone in a given metro the same.

Insurance companies pay a multiplier of medicare 1.2 or 1.5 or such. Reimbursements are definitely not less for academic pathology depts compared to private practice ones.

 

[2121115]

No it is true. Medicare doesn't have a reimbursement schedule for academics that is lower than private practice. THey pay everyone in a given metro the same.

Insurance companies pay a multiplier of medicare 1.2 or 1.5 or such. Reimbursements are definitely not less for academic pathology depts compared to private practice ones.

Nice bait, but I'm not biting. Thanks for playing though.

 

[pathstudent]

Nice bait, but I'm not biting. Thanks for playing though.

No you are so wrong.

You said Academic Pathologists get reimbursed less than private practice. That is not true. Medicare reimburses an 88305 the same amount to a pathologist working at an academic medical center as one working at a private hospital (in a given metro). I don't know why you can't admit you are wrong.

 

[exPCM]

I think the best program for private practice would be the St. John's program. You get to live in Detroit, all the residents have their pictures on the website, and "the residents will receive instruction in the working mechanisms of laboratory instruments, including "trouble shooting," and will have the opportunity to perform most of the tests." They even have a free noon buffet luncheon. It is a wonderful program and you don't have to worry about pesky fellows getting in your way since they don't have fellowships. The best part to me is per the website it looks like they have only eight residents and they have both a primary and secondary resident on call each day so you get to be on Q4 for your entire residency - get your application in ASAP.
Here is the website:
http://www.stjohn.org/StJohnHospital/CME-Residency/GME/Pathology/

I would probably rate the Lennox Hill program 2nd. This program does not participate in the match so you might even be able to get a position there very quickly. Again it also looks like you get to be on call Q4 for your entire residency per AMA Freida.
http://www.lenoxhillhospital.org/residency_training.aspx?id=368
https://freida.ama-assn.org/Freida/user/pgmWork.do

 

[Entgegen]

I think the best program for private practice would be the St. John's program. You get to live in Detroit, all the residents have their pictures on the website, and "the residents will receive instruction in the working mechanisms of laboratory instruments, including “trouble shooting,” and will have the opportunity to perform most of the tests." They even have a free noon buffet luncheon. It is a wonderful program and you don't have to worry about pesky fellows getting in your way since they don't have fellowships. The best part to me is per the website it looks like they have only eight residents and they have both a primary and secondary resident on call each day so you get to be on Q4 for your entire residency - get your application in ASAP.
Here is the website:
http://www.stjohn.org/StJohnHospital/CME-Residency/GME/Pathology/

I would probably rate the Lennox Hill program 2nd. This program does not participate in the match so you might even be able to get a position there very quickly. Again it also looks like you get to be on call Q4 for your entire residency per AMA Freida.
http://www.lenoxhillhospital.org/residency_training.aspx?id=368
https://freida.ama-assn.org/Freida/user/pgmWork.do

Sweet Jesus...

 

[2121115]

I think the best program for private practice would be the St. John's program. You get to live in Detroit, all the residents have their pictures on the website, and "the residents will receive instruction in the working mechanisms of laboratory instruments, including “trouble shooting,” and will have the opportunity to perform most of the tests." They even have a free noon buffet luncheon. It is a wonderful program and you don't have to worry about pesky fellows getting in your way since they don't have fellowships. The best part to me is per the website it looks like they have only eight residents and they have both a primary and secondary resident on call each day so you get to be on Q4 for your entire residency - get your application in ASAP.
Here is the website:
http://www.stjohn.org/StJohnHospital/CME-Residency/GME/Pathology/

I would probably rate the Lennox Hill program 2nd. This program does not participate in the match so you might even be able to get a position there very quickly. Again it also looks like you get to be on call Q4 for your entire residency per AMA Freida.
http://www.lenoxhillhospital.org/residency_training.aspx?id=368
https://freida.ama-assn.org/Freida/user/pgmWork.do

Wow. I don't even know what to say.

 

[2121115]

Pardon my ignorance, but does "clinical track" academics still involve research, or is it simply working as a pathologist at an academic institution and teaching? Are there clinical track academic pathologists who don't do research?

"Clinical track", as opposed to "tenure track", just means that academic work is not factored into the criteria for promotion to associate prof, prof, etc. It doesn't mean you can't do research, but you'll be on service more so there won't be as much time. The primary responsibilities are service work and teaching. These are the faculty you see with titles like "clinical assistant professor" and the like.

 

[exPCM]

Title says it all.

Thanks!
Flighty

Good programs for private practice are the programs that will help you get a job in private practice.
Here are a few programs that will be helpful in landing a private practice job (in no particular order):
Stanford, MGH, Mayo, Yale, Cleveland Clinic, Emory, Michigan, UAB, Johns Hopkins, Wash U-St. Louis, Utah, University of Washington, UVA, Cornell, BWH.
I think those 15 programs are a good starting point.
Other places top notch for fellowships- MMSK, MDAnderson

 

[pathstudent]

I think the best program for private practice would be the St. John's program. You get to live in Detroit, all the residents have their pictures on the website, and "the residents will receive instruction in the working mechanisms of laboratory instruments, including “trouble shooting,” and will have the opportunity to perform most of the tests." They even have a free noon buffet luncheon. It is a wonderful program and you don't have to worry about pesky fellows getting in your way since they don't have fellowships. The best part to me is per the website it looks like they have only eight residents and they have both a primary and secondary resident on call each day so you get to be on Q4 for your entire residency - get your application in ASAP.
Here is the website:
http://www.stjohn.org/StJohnHospital/CME-Residency/GME/Pathology/

I would probably rate the Lennox Hill program 2nd. This program does not participate in the match so you might even be able to get a position there very quickly. Again it also looks like you get to be on call Q4 for your entire residency per AMA Freida.
http://www.lenoxhillhospital.org/residency_training.aspx?id=368
https://freida.ama-assn.org/Freida/user/pgmWork.do

The ironic thing about all of this is that all of these pathologists will get reimbursed the same as ODZE or PAGE or WEISS or FLETCHER or JAFFE by medicare for an 88305 if they live in the same metro, just like all physicians get reimbursed the same in a given metro by medicare and insurance cos. whether they be academic or private practice unlike what 2121115 claims.

This has been a hot topic in the AOA community. In my recent issues of Pharos there has been a lot of topic about the relevance of AOA with the note that there really is no point in achieving excellence as the #1 student from Harvard gets reimbursed the same from medicare as the last student from University of Baghdad for a given CPT code.

 

[exPCM]

The ironic thing about all of this is that all of these pathologists will get reimbursed the same as ODZE or PAGE or WEISS or FLETCHER or JAFFE by medicare for an 88305 if they live in the same metro, just like all physicians get reimbursed the same in a given metro by medicare and insurance cos. whether they be academic or private practice unlike what 2121115 claims.

This has been a hot topic in the AOA community. In my recent issues of Pharos there has been a lot of topic about the relevance of AOA with the note that there really is no point in achieving excellence as the #1 student from Harvard gets reimbursed the same from medicare as the last student from University of Baghdad for a given CPT code.

Pathstudent,
Excellent Points!
P.S. You are also correct on the reimbursement. The other poster is clueless.

 

[Thrombus]

The ironic thing about all of this is that all of these pathologists will get reimbursed the same as ODZE or PAGE or WEISS or FLETCHER or JAFFE by medicare for an 88305 if they live in the same metro, just like all physicians get reimbursed the same in a given metro by medicare and insurance cos. whether they be academic or private practice unlike what 2121115 claims.

This has been a hot topic in the AOA community. In my recent issues of Pharos there has been a lot of topic about the relevance of AOA with the note that there really is no point in achieving excellence as the #1 student from Harvard gets reimbursed the same from medicare as the last student from University of Baghdad for a given CPT code.

Whats amazing is that those patients are valued the same as well!

And the diagnoses are the same!

The "AOA" Community.....LMAO!!!!!

 

[pathstudent]

Whats amazing is that those patients are valued the same as well!

And the diagnoses are the same!

The "AOA" Community.....LMAO!!!!!

In most fields excellence is rewarded more generously. THe best wide QB in the NFL makes much much much more than the worst. If you want to eat at French Laundry or NOBU, you pay much more than eating at Jack in the Box.

But if you have your GI BX read by those guys in that program above, they will get reimbursed the same as Odze. Does that make sense?

In the AOA community there has been a lot of questioning about its relevance, and about how most med students that get it just use it to put on their resume to get a derm or rads residency, and they never participate in the organization after that.

Well I paid the lifetime dues, when I entered, and I submit to Pharos and attend AOA functions. So yes there is an AOA community.

 

[malchik]

The ironic thing about all of this is that all of these pathologists will get reimbursed the same as ODZE or PAGE or WEISS or FLETCHER or JAFFE by medicare for an 88305 if they live in the same metro, just like all physicians get reimbursed the same in a given metro by medicare and insurance cos. whether they be academic or private practice unlike what 2121115 claims.

This has been a hot topic in the AOA community. In my recent issues of Pharos there has been a lot of topic about the relevance of AOA with the note that there really is no point in achieving excellence as the #1 student from Harvard gets reimbursed the same from medicare as the last student from University of Baghdad for a given CPT code.

I'll let 21215345987344..etc. speak for himself, but I think the point you are ignoring is that in an academic department reimbursement is almost irrelevant to salary. If reimbursement had anything to do with salary, then assistant profs who sign out more cases would make more than full profs who often make 2x-3x more. Similarly, famous pathologists probably command higher salaries, again not based on reimbursement, but because their institution wants them there.

 

[2121115]

I'll let 21215345987344..etc. speak for himself, but I think the point you are ignoring is that in an academic department reimbursement is almost irrelevant to salary. If reimbursement had anything to do with salary, then assistant profs who sign out more cases would make more than full profs who often make 2x-3x more. Similarly, famous pathologists probably command higher salaries, again not based on reimbursement, but because their institution wants them there.

Obviously, they get "reimbursed" the same rate from medicare. I do not deny this and I used the wrong terminology in my original post. That is not what I meant. However, there is a vast difference between the revenue generated by an academic surgical pathologist and the amount they personally receive as payment. The difference goes to the department and they distribute it where they see fit, which is most often not to the people who did the work.

 

[yaah]

In most fields excellence is rewarded more generously. THe best wide QB in the NFL makes much much much more than the worst. If you want to eat at French Laundry or NOBU, you pay much more than eating at Jack in the Box.

But if you have your GI BX read by those guys in that program above, they will get reimbursed the same as Odze. Does that make sense?

In the AOA community there has been a lot of questioning about its relevance, and about how most med students that get it just use it to put on their resume to get a derm or rads residency, and they never participate in the organization after that.

Well I paid the lifetime dues, when I entered, and I submit to Pharos and attend AOA functions. So yes there is an AOA community.

That isn't that true though. Eli Manning is a mediocrity and he is one of the highest paid QBs.

It makes excellent sense to me to have the same reimbursement rate for biopsy reading. If these individuals want to charge more for consult reading (non insurance reimbursed) then they are more than welcome to - the market can then decide their value. I am sure there is a quite a market out there for patients willing to pay out of pocket for an expert read in certain circumstances. In addition, national experts often have better deals, partnership arrangements, research time, book and speaking deals, etc, which reward them quite well. But to equate basic reimbursement levels with "prestige," an artificial term which is open to interpretation and opinion, is an abominable notion.

I am laughing at the whole "AOA community" stuff. Is it like the Phi Beta Kappa community where you get a newsletter? Honor societies are such crap. My school awarded AOA status based primarily on community service activities, which I thought was admirable, and to a lesser extent on political connections, which I thought was hideous. Grades were much less important.

 

[pathstudent]

I am laughing at the whole "AOA community" stuff. Is it like the Phi Beta Kappa community where you get a newsletter? Honor societies are such crap..

You get a quarterly journal called the pharos. If focuses on the humanities in medicine and publishes scholarly articles on medical history, literature, art, ethics, economics, health policy, and profiles of prominent persons. There is also a lot of poetry, photography and personal essays. Things that the majority of the boorish types in medicine find "stupid" and "pointless" and "such crap".

At most schools to get "junior AOA" is the highest honor requiring you to be in the top two percent academically in addition to having extraordinary character and invovlement (i.e. it isn't given to someone who just aces all their exams because they studied 16 hours a day). Senior AOA is less stringent but still requires being in the top 1/6 of the class.

But to keep the conversation on-topic, whether you want a career in academics or not, go to the best biggest name program in the city you would most like to live in for residency. That will be the best preparation

 

[deleted57552]

Obviously, they get "reimbursed" the same rate from medicare. I do not deny this and I used the wrong terminology in my original post. That is not what I meant. However, there is a vast difference between the revenue generated by an academic surgical pathologist and the amount they personally receive as payment. The difference goes to the department and they distribute it where they see fit, which is most often not to the people who did the work.

I understood what you meant. Yes, the same case, whether in private practice or academia, generates the same pay. However, the academic pathologist and private practice pathologist will see different proportions of that reflected in his/her paycheck. This is simply due to differences in salary & pay setup in these two contexts.

 

[schrute]

You get a quarterly journal called the pharos. If focuses on the humanities in medicine and publishes scholarly articles on medical history, literature, art, ethics, economics, health policy, and profiles of prominent persons. There is also a lot of poetry, photography and personal essays. Things that the majority of the boorish types in medicine find "stupid" and "pointless" and "such crap".

At most schools to get "junior AOA" is the highest honor requiring you to be in the top two percent academically in addition to having extraordinary character and invovlement (i.e. it isn't given to someone who just aces all their exams because they studied 16 hours a day). Senior AOA is less stringent but still requires being in the top 1/6 of the class.

But to keep the conversation on-topic, whether you want a career in academics or not, go to the best biggest name program in the city you would most like to live in for residency. That will be the best preparation

I love your perpetuation that AOA means something more than pure scholastic achievement...like anyone not in AOA is some bumbling twit who spends his/her time playing X-box & reading Rolling Stone...

Not everyone places a high value on public recognition of scholastic achievements & claiming membership to an exclusive club. Pride is something more than a shiny lapel pin, and intelligence is something more than a wall-mounted certificate or subscription to "pharos."

 

[Thrombus]

I love your perpetuation that AOA means something more than pure scholastic achievement...like anyone not in AOA is some bumbling twit who spends his/her time playing X-box & reading Rolling Stone...

Not everyone places a high value on public recognition of scholastic achievements & claiming membership to an exclusive club. Pride is something more than a shiny lapel pin, and intelligence is something more than a wall-mounted certificate or subscription to "pharos."

Exactly -- to me --

Pride is getting home in two on a 520 yard par 5 into the wind.

Intelligence is realizing that at the end of the day, pathology is just a job from the perspective of those who matter most to me.

 

[yaah]

You get a quarterly journal called the pharos. If focuses on the humanities in medicine and publishes scholarly articles on medical history, literature, art, ethics, economics, health policy, and profiles of prominent persons. There is also a lot of poetry, photography and personal essays. Things that the majority of the boorish types in medicine find "stupid" and "pointless" and "such crap".

At most schools to get "junior AOA" is the highest honor requiring you to be in the top two percent academically in addition to having extraordinary character and invovlement (i.e. it isn't given to someone who just aces all their exams because they studied 16 hours a day). Senior AOA is less stringent but still requires being in the top 1/6 of the class.

I'm glad you think I'm boorish. I didn't know the qualifications for not being boorish were limited to AOA status. In point of fact, I know a great many members of AOA who would perfectly fit the definition of "boorish." In fact, having a journal come regularly to you that contains poetry and essays (which most AOA members probably do not actually read, and instead leave it out so that others can witness it and see how special they are) has nothing to do with whether someone is boorish or not.

In case it matters to you, my grades would have qualified me for AOA status at most med schools. My school did not have junior AOA. Senior AOA was decided differently, as said above. I have not lost one minute of sleep as a result, nor have I felt unworthy or has anyone made me feel unworthy.

However, I am glad that not being in AOA has allowed me the side benefit of not paying attention to anything of true cultural significance. In actuality, I haven't picked up a real work of literature since I was seen carrying around Dostoyevsky books during M1 and M2 in a vain attempt to look cultured. Now I can focus on my real interests: reality TV, pornography and Fox News.

I am quite sure that these articles are educational and interesting. However, the fact that you have to belong to an elitist honor society in order to have the privilege of reading them makes them by definition very UNinteresting and likely of little consequence to real life. But I'm sure AOA appreciates the money that people send to them.

 

[pathologic]

Now I can focus on my real interests: reality TV, pornography and Fox News.

This is why I read these threads.....awesome! I couldn't agree more.

 

[Nilf]

However, I am glad that not being in AOA has allowed me the side benefit of not paying attention to anything of true cultural significance. In actuality, I haven't picked up a real work of literature since I was seen carrying around Dostoyevsky books during M1 and M2 in a vain attempt to look cultured. Now I can focus on my real interests: reality TV, pornography and Fox News.

I am quite sure that these articles are educational and interesting. However, the fact that you have to belong to an elitist honor society in order to have the privilege of reading them makes them by definition very UNinteresting and likely of little consequence to real life. But I'm sure AOA appreciates the money that people send to them.

Now you're talking like a true American male. 👍

Somebody mentioned pride... pride from your golfing prowess.... I see your point and I applaud it. For me pride means getting digits from the hawtestest chicaz in da haus. Much longer lasting sense of fullfillment than anything you can achieve at the scope. In the end, pathology is just a job.

 

[lipomas]

at AOA prestige. AOA is kind of a joke. I can't imagine paying money to be a part of it. I suppose it makes some people feel better about themselves though. And I have heard it helps you get derm residencies. But if it didn't exist residencies would just use your transcript and CV which contains all the same information and is more illuminating.

 

[pathstudent]

In fact, having a journal come regularly to you that contains poetry and essays (which most AOA members probably do not actually read, and instead leave it out so that others can witness it and see how special they are) has nothing to do with whether someone is boorish or not.

In case it matters to you, my grades would have qualified me for AOA status at most med schools. My school did not have junior AOA. Senior AOA was decided differently, as said above. I have not lost one minute of sleep as a result, nor have I felt unworthy or has anyone made me feel unworthy.

However, I am glad that not being in AOA has allowed me the side benefit of not paying attention to anything of true cultural significance. In actuality, I haven't picked up a real work of literature since I was seen carrying around Dostoyevsky books during M1 and M2 in a vain attempt to look cultured. Now I can focus on my real interests: reality TV, pornography and Fox News.

I am quite sure that these articles are educational and interesting. However, the fact that you have to belong to an elitist honor society in order to have the privilege of reading them makes them by definition very UNinteresting and likely of little consequence to real life. But I'm sure AOA appreciates the money that people send to them.

So cynical. I guess everything worked out fine for you since you have so much hatered for AOA.

And I don't leave my Pharos out so other be can read it. I leave it by the toilet.

 

[yaah]

So cynical. I guess everything worked out fine for you since you have so much hatered for AOA.

And I don't leave my Pharos out so other be can read it. I leave it by the toilet.

Nah. It's not hatred. It's just fatigue of the hyper prestige syndrome that pervades so much of medicine.

 

[Parts Unknown]

In the end, pathology is just a job.

Please do me a huge favor and refrain from telling me what my profession means to me.

 

[Nilf]

Please do me a huge favor and refrain from telling me what my profession means to me.

Return me a favor, learn to use scroll down button and ignore my posts.

I've been doing this with yours. It works.

 

[Parts Unknown]

Return me a favor, learn to use scroll down button and ignore my posts.

Sorry, can't. I have balls.

 

[Nilf]

Sorry, can't. I have balls.

Not anymore

Now your name is 'private parts unknown'

 

[gbwillner]

Return me a favor, learn to use scroll down button and ignore my posts.

I've been doing this with yours. It works.

I'm a little confused at how you managed to respond to a comment that you ignored... more like fail than pwnage... just sayin'...

/ but thanks for invoking the Hoff.

 

[LADoc00]

Im confused what are "Pharos, AOA and the AOA-communities?"

Are we talking about the AOA medical student award?!

 

[2121115]

Im confused what are "Pharos, AOA and the AOA-communities?"

Are we talking about the AOA medical student award?!

American Osteopathic Association. It is the certifying organization of D.O.'s or doctors of osteopathic medicine.

 

[lipomas]

American Osteopathic Association. It is the certifying organization of D.O.'s or doctors of osteopathic medicine.

No I think he means alpha omega alpha - the honor society. Only honor societies with greek names would provide something as tacky as a newsletter with the name "Pharos." Lighting the way for all of us peons, no doubt.

The DO AOA is most decidedly not prestigious enough. 😉

 

[Cloaca]

Thank you for this thread. It has been such an enjoyable diversion from screening paps. You guys are the best...

 

[Parts Unknown]

Not anymore

Pwnage has to be conferred by a third party, otherwise it just comes off as noob. Come on, man, you've even become a joke in pre-allo. You're like a whiny version of Panda Bear, sans wit.

 

[2121115]

Pwnage has to be conferred by a third party, otherwise it just comes off as noob. Come on, man, you've even become a joke in pre-allo. You're like a whiny version of Panda Bear, sans wit.

Why would anyone on this forum also hang around in pre-allo?

 

[KluverB]

Im confused what are "Pharos, AOA and the AOA-communities?"...

Agents of Armageddon

 

[mcfaddens]

Not anymore

Now your name is 'private parts unknown'

OH man that was hilarious!! I also like the fact that private parts can't figure out a good come back! awesome