Goro's guide for YOUR interview questions at a DO school

[StudyLater]

Whoa....

I'm trying to figure out if you have a personal vendetta or are being sarcastic.

I'll let you think on that.

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[Gandyy]

I'll let you think on that.

Ive lost interest.

 

[Goro]

Seth, you have a gift for stating the obvious.

NYU is a solid medical school, you cannot go wrong with an MD from NYU. Its one of the top 25 ranked Allopathic schools in the nation. Only Columbia and Cornell are ranked higher in New York. The opportunities you will find after graduation will be far better than from any DO school.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Well since this isnt a one up contest, how about you tell me what you think is wrong about my post instead of making me play Sherlock Holmes with my own "crimes"?

Sigh, I mention matriculate average because it is defacto the real average person attending the average MD school. I use this to say that a person in that area is not only very likely to be accepted, but most likely has a real chance higher than 50%. I consider this person to be the mid tier and numbers around him to be also mid tier for allopathic and high mid to high tier for DO schools.

Your follow up of then mentioning that "mid tier MD schools" were then thus higher than that only made the conversation convoluted for lack of a better word. You following? It had nothing to do with making you play Sherlock as much as asking to see that there is somewhat of a direct inconsistency with your logic and then having you fix it yourself. But not a big issue.

Nah. It's more fun to make you work to find out how inferior you are.

I'm not really sure what this is about, but I would recommend you modulate your disposition.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Not big on this at all -- I get far too much of it currently, as it is. I have no problem going to TouroNY above the 99 cent store or being told to bow my head and pray before an exam if it means ditching the 2000-person lecture halls scrunched between people in the middle of the aisle like we're at the f*cking superbowl.

No medical school DO or MD in the USA will present you a scenario like this. It's more of a, do you want a school with a singular building or do you want to have multiple buildings, i.e a campus. Size of class and the such don't particularly play a role because you'll be hard pressed to find a DO school or MD school with over 600 students in it at once.

 

[Gandyy]

Sigh, I mention matriculate average because it is defacto the real average person attending the average MD school. I use this to say that a person in that area is not only very likely to be accepted, but most likely has a real chance higher than 50%. I consider this person to be the mid tier and numbers around him to be also mid tier for allopathic and high mid to high tier for DO schools.

Your follow up of then mentioning that "mid tier MD schools" were then thus higher than that only made the conversation convoluted for lack of a better word. You following? It had nothing to do with making you play Sherlock as much as asking to see that there is somewhat of a direct inconsistency with your logic and then having you fix it yourself. But not a big issue.



I'm not really sure what this is about, but I would recommend you modulate your disposition.

I follow, but my point is still that I think having a 31/3.7 still puts you as a mid tier applicant overall, but that a 31/3.7 is solid only for low tier MD schools.

Anyways, yea I'm not sure what this studylater guy is trying to do here either.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I follow, but my point is still that I think having a 31/3.7 still puts you as a mid tier applicant overall, but that a 31/3.7 is solid only for low tier MD schools.

Anyways, yea I'm not sure what this studylater guy is trying to do here either.

I'm going to go ahead and say that a 3.7/31 is a population average and not a synthetic mean that is the resultant of a lot of low and high applicants. You're going to find tons of 3.7/31s through out the schools, in which the mid tier MD schools will have essentially most of its class and high tier possessing maybe closer to 30-40% of its class. It's why I continued to mention the matriculate average. High tier schools fill their classes with 3.7/31s too and in many cases a person with that is solid to apply to most of them and have a good shot. It's why I again mentioned that someone with a 3.5/28 is likely to end up in a MD school of varied range as well. ( if the average accepted student has a 3.7/31 then the midtier will be dominated by them, and in many cases that score dominates most MD schools)

But anyways, I don't blame you for thinking that way though. The whole LizzyM score really perpetuated a competitiveness check mark belief system.

 

[Gandyy]

I'm going to go ahead and say that a 3.7/31 is a population average and not a synthetic mean that is the resultant of a lot of low and high applicants. You're going to find tons of 3.7/31s through out the schools, in which the mid tier MD schools will have essentially most of its class and high tier possessing maybe closer to 30-40% of its class. It's why I continued to mention the matriculate average. High tier schools fill their classes with 3.7/31s too and in many cases a person with that is solid to apply to most of them and have a good shot. It's why I again mentioned that someone with a 3.5/28 is likely to end up in a MD school of varied range as well. ( if the average accepted student has a 3.7/31 then the midtier will be dominated by them, and in many cases that score dominates most MD schools)

But anyways, I don't blame you for thinking that way though. The whole LizzyM score really perpetuated a competitiveness check mark belief system.

See, I really dont think so. The MSAR screams that statement is incorrect. a 3.5/28 is too far from the median of your typical MD school.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

See, I really dont think so. The MSAR screams that statement is incorrect. a 3.5/28 is too far from the median of your typical MD school.

Well, even then surprisingly enough of the people applying 40-50% will be accepted to MD. The other to DO.

 

[67552931811]

Its more the DO schools are opening up campuses like fast food outlets, the MD school aren't. MD schools are titans that build hospitals and research centers. DO schools are more about catering to the mid and lower tier pre med applicants, so I guess they really do not care if they provide first class facilities to their students.

Cause Scranton is just the epicenter of ground breaking research

 

[BornSinner]

Cause Scranton is just the epicenter of ground breaking research

Nah bro... Kalamazoo and Mt. Pleasant totally scream state of the art research

 

[ChrisMack390]

Touro-NY is a great education, but I would like to be at least somewhat proud to show people where I go to school. Maybe that is superficial, I dunno.

You would think the Touro system could at least afford to buy the first floor of the building and make it a half decent lobby or student center or whatever.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

MSU and TCOM have teaching hospitals (PCOM I think has one).

Rowan

 

[ChrisMack390]

Rowan

Do you mean Cooper? I wonder how much that's been eaten up by MD students, now having its own MD school and all.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Rowan has both an MD and a DO school, and Cooper is just the university hospital for the MD school.......

 

[ChrisMack390]

Rowan has both an MD and a DO school, and Cooper is just the university hospital for the MD school.......

What university hospital does the DO school have?

 

[dozitgetchahi]

They have 3 hospitals in the Kennedy system and Our Lady of Lourdes hospital, which is also in Camden.

 

[ChrisMack390]

If you are going to count affiliated hospitals, almost all DO schools have those. Not quite the same as 1 primary academic teaching hospital.

 

[StudyLater]

No medical school DO or MD in the USA will present you a scenario like this. It's more of a, do you want a school with a singular building or do you want to have multiple buildings, i.e a campus. Size of class and the such don't particularly play a role because you'll be hard pressed to find a DO school or MD school with over 600 students in it at once.

Exactly. Which is why I'm saying I'd be happy to go anywhere.

 

[StudyLater]

I'm not really sure what this is about, but I would recommend you modulate your disposition.

Disposition modulated. No sarcasm during super serious time.

 

[Seth Joo]

I follow, but my point is still that I think having a 31/3.7 still puts you as a mid tier applicant overall, but that a 31/3.7 is solid only for low tier MD schools.

Anyways, yea I'm not sure what this studylater guy is trying to do here either.

A 28 MCAT is average for most DO schools, some schools have around a 30, mostly the DO schools in the Northeast and California.

The numbers you mention seem to be about the average for a mid tier MD program, and believe it or not that still won't get you into one.

 

[deleted158872]

Ya don't want to be traveling too often, too time consuming to find a place on top of the hours spent in your rotations (depends on the rotation though). Plus your bottom of the totem pole if you do your rotation outside the system (worst case scenario is having a rotation where it is equivalent to shadowing in a doctors office). Always better to have rotations with strong OPTIs, meaning your schools students are on the top of the list for rotations at certain hospitals.

What are "rotations outside the system?" And how do you know if a rotation is bad quality?

 

[IslandStyle808]

What are "rotations outside the system?" And how do you know if a rotation is bad quality?

Usually schools have affiliation with hospitals in the near by area, this is their system to assign students to rotations. This system usually includes OPTI (i.e. rotations with residents), but some schools can be weak in that regard. Schools can allow you to do rotations outside their affiliates if you do all the leg work yourself (i.e. schools in a different region). However, one can be dropped from these rotations because of preference given to students from that region (ex. you are attending LMU, but want to do rotations in your home state Alabama, but ACOM students took priority).

The quality of rotations thing is not something I can truly comment on (it would be better heard from a 3rd year or above). From what I know, if one does rotations with graduate medical education (GME) less bad things can happen in terms of learning (there are some posts in the osteopathic forums). The main thing is that you are able to take a pro-active role in care of the patient (e.x. doing an H&P and making notes etc.). The attendings/residents are taking an active part of this process of helping you learn (that is if your rotation is ward based, if it is preceptor based then it is just the attending). You will hopefully see a lot of pathology as well (more possible in a rotation with GME, especially during rounds). These aspects are part of what makes a rotation good.

 

[deleted158872]

Usually schools have affiliation with hospitals in the near by area, this is their system to assign students to rotations. This system usually includes OPTI (i.e. rotations with residents), but some schools can be weak in that regard. Schools can allow you to do rotations outside their affiliates if you do all the leg work yourself (i.e. schools in a different region). However, one can be dropped from these rotations because of preference given to students from that region (ex. you are attending LMU, but want to do rotations in your home state Alabama, but ACOM students took priority).

The quality of rotations thing is not something I can truly comment on (it would be better heard from a 3rd year or above). From what I know, if one does rotations with graduate medical education (GME) less bad things can happen in terms of learning (there are some posts in the osteopathic forms). The main thing is that you are able to take a pro-active role in care of the patient (e.x. doing an H&P and making notes etc.). The attendings/residents are taking an active part of this process of helping you learn (that is if your rotation is ward based, if it is preceptor based then it is just the attending). You will hopefully see a lot of pathology as well (more possible in a rotation with GME, especially during rounds). These aspects are part of what makes a rotation good.

thanks. further question: how can I tell whether a rotation has GME?

 

[IslandStyle808]

thanks. further question: how can I tell whether a rotation has GME?

Usually it is a rotation done in a hospital with residents (i.e. your internal medicine rotation is done in the same hospital that the intern medicine residents are doing their training).

 

[BlueSlurpee]

Usually schools have affiliation with hospitals in the near by area, this is their system to assign students to rotations. This system usually includes OPTI (i.e. rotations with residents), but some schools can be weak in that regard. Schools can allow you to do rotations outside their affiliates if you do all the leg work yourself (i.e. schools in a different region). However, one can be dropped from these rotations because of preference given to students from that region (ex. you are attending LMU, but want to do rotations in your home state Alabama, but ACOM students took priority).

The quality of rotations thing is not something I can truly comment on (it would be better heard from a 3rd year or above). From what I know, if one does rotations with graduate medical education (GME) less bad things can happen in terms of learning (there are some posts in the osteopathic forums). The main thing is that you are able to take a pro-active role in care of the patient (e.x. doing an H&P and making notes etc.). The attendings/residents are taking an active part of this process of helping you learn (that is if your rotation is ward based, if it is preceptor based then it is just the attending). You will hopefully see a lot of pathology as well (more possible in a rotation with GME, especially during rounds). These aspects are part of what makes a rotation good.

So newer osteopathic programs can have OPTI? Or do they have to first be accredited in order to have OPTI?

 

[IslandStyle808]

So newer osteopathic programs can have OPTI? Or do they have to first be accredited in order to have OPTI?

Not sure about that one, I think students who are attending some the newer stand alone schools will know.

 

[Dohnut]

Its located on the island of Manhattan, home of the most expensive real estate in America, and apparently the school received over 6000 applications for admission. I said in a previous post that location can overshadow a school's facilities and other aspects, if they built the same type of school in Boston another highly desirable locale, they would also get flooded with applications. All they need to is find an abandoned K-Mart or JC Penney within 20 minutes of downtown Boston and it will become one of the most competitive DO schools in the nation.

That being said I do not think any school in Boston would present itself like that.

Why so serious? ****'s funny

 

[Dohnut]

Wat. Why does it matter what the matriculation average is when we are talking about applicants that are accepted out of the large pool that is DO and MD applicants?

Even a 31/3.7 applicant is defintely not top tier. Those are solid numbers for low tier MD schools. Mid tier MD schools have averages closer to the 33/3.8 range. And there are so many many schools on MSAR with >32/3.7 average that arent the top 20 schools in the nation.

I think what causes this differential is the top tier applicants getting multiple acceptances so their stats get used by all schools but can only matriculate with one. So accepted averages are artificially inflated.

 

[Dohnut]

Whoa....

I'm trying to figure out if you have a personal vendetta or are being sarcastic.

I like StudyLater's sense of humor, lol

 

[Dohnut]

Seth, you have a gift for stating the obvious.

And a knack for missing something funny like that picture of a med school on top of a 99c store as people were obviously joking about it....


Why so serious Seth? Anytime is a good time to lighten up.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

I figured that it might be a good idea to revive this thread now that some of us are getting DO interviews for this coming cycle.

So, @Goro would it be a good idea to ask about the GME merger at a DO interview, since it could potentially go into effect before I graduate from medical school?


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[Goro]

Don't expect current AOA residency directors to start taking in MDs. And likewise, don't expect ACGME PDs to start taking in DOs. The process will be diffusional, like a concentration gradient. The biggest losers will be IMGs.

I figured that it might be a good idea to revive this thread now that some of us are getting DO interviews for this coming cycle.

So, @Goro would it be a good idea to ask about the GME merger at a DO interview, since it could potentially go into effect before I graduate from medical school?


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[ATPsynthase123]

Don't expect current AOA residency directors to start taking in MDs. And likewise, don't expect ACGME PDs to start taking in DOs. The process will be diffusional, like a concentration gradient. The biggest losers will be IMGs.

You mean don't expect exclusive AOA programs to start accepting MDs and don't expect the "no DO" residencies to suddenly be pro DO?

Do you think it would be smart to use this as a talking point at the end of the interview to show I'm decently aware of what's going on in the profession and concerned with the outcome? I do think it would be interesting to hear the interviewers opinion on the matter


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[Goro]

Not right away. One thing I've noticed, at least with my grads, is that they're getting into ACGME programs as the very first DO students ever, or among the few that have been previously admitted. And yes, they're good programs.

But keep in mind that we're talking about events that were still five years away. I'll probably be Professor Emeritus when we see how things really shake out. Medical education is an evolutionary, not revolutionary process.

You mean don't expect exclusive AOA programs to start accepting MDs and don't expect the "no DO" residencies to suddenly be pro DO?

Do you think it would be smart to use this as a talking point at the end of the interview to show I'm decently aware of what's going on in the profession and concerned with the outcome? I do think it would be interesting to hear the interviewers opinion on the matter


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[ATPsynthase123]

Not right away. One thing I've noticed, at least with my grads, is that they're getting into ACGME programs as the very first DO students ever, or among the few that have been previously admitted. And yes, they're good programs.

But keep in mind that we're talking about events that were still five years away. I'll probably be Professor Emeritus when we see how things really shake out. Medical education is an evolutionary, not revolutionary process.

So do you think it would even be worth brining up at the end of the interview?


On a side note, is it true that the average MD/DO student usually gets accepted of one of their top choices of a residency?


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[235009]

Don't expect current AOA residency directors to start taking in MDs. And likewise, don't expect ACGME PDs to start taking in DOs. The process will be diffusional, like a concentration gradient. The biggest losers will be IMGs.

This is the kind of answer you're going to get. "Everything will be great, the merger will be awesome, we're going to win so hard you're going to get tired of winning, the IMGs are going to get hit so hard they'll be crying". Completely useless and baseless.

In reality some AOA programs are already jumping ship (not applying for osteopathic recognition, soliciting US MDs and IMGs, etc) and I expect many more to unshackle themselves from the AOA and focus on getting the best residents they can to run their hospitals and treat their patients. On the other hand this merger isn't even on the radar of many ACGME programs. It'll make absolutely no difference to them... they'll keep filling their classes with US MDs (and highly qualified FMGs) and trash all DO and IMG applications that come to them sight unseen. IMGs will now have thousands more residency programs to apply to, many of them community IM and FM programs that have a tough time recruiting. Logic dictates that PDs of these programs would much rather fill in the match than maintain their allegiance to DOs who let their programs go unfilled for years.

Not right away. One thing I've noticed, at least with my grads, is that they're getting into ACGME programs as the very first DO students ever, or among the few that have been previously admitted. And yes, they're good programs.

I'm starting to read your posts in a Donald trump voice and it's fittingly hilarious.

As a physician I wouldn't even try to claim that I can evaluate "good programs" outside my own specialty yet you as a non-physician administrator are able to say it with such confidence and gusto. Suspicious.

So do you think it would even be worth brining up at the end of the interview?


On a side note, is it true that the average MD/DO student usually gets accepted of one of their top choices of a residency?

Don't bring it up. What are you hoping to learn? What exactly is there to ask anyway? If you ask how it will affect the school they'll inevitably say "I don't know" or "it's going to be awesome". You're better off asking about clinical rotation sites and clinical education.

The "top choices in residency" is a silly non-statistic. First of all this is about people who already strategically applied to a specialty they chose based on their chance of matching into it. Second, you won't be ranking programs you didn't interview at so when someone tells you they matched at their #1 rank or a school says that 95% matched at one of their top 3 places you don't know whether they had their heart set on a list of other programs where they weren't offered interviews.

 

[Goro]

Only if you're asked.

Most of my students seem to get her top choices. But as our wise resident colleagues can tell us, this is actually very nuanced.

So do you think it would even be worth brining up at the end of the interview?


On a side note, is it true that the average MD/DO student usually gets accepted of one of their top choices of a residency?


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[Shotapp]

@Goro

Although I'm a long way from applying, I wanted to know if you could provide an example of a good question and an example of a not so good/ annoying question for the interviewer?

 

[ATPsynthase123]

This is the kind of answer you're going to get. "Everything will be great, the merger will be awesome, we're going to win so hard you're going to get tired of winning, the IMGs are going to get hit so hard they'll be crying". Completely useless and baseless.

In reality some AOA programs are already jumping ship (not applying for osteopathic recognition, soliciting US MDs and IMGs, etc) and I expect many more to unshackle themselves from the AOA and focus on getting the best residents they can to run their hospitals and treat their patients. On the other hand this merger isn't even on the radar of many ACGME programs. It'll make absolutely no difference to them... they'll keep filling their classes with US MDs (and highly qualified FMGs) and trash all DO and IMG applications that come to them sight unseen. IMGs will now have thousands more residency programs to apply to, many of them community IM and FM programs that have a tough time recruiting. Logic dictates that PDs of these programs would much rather fill in the match than maintain their allegiance to DOs who let their programs go unfilled for years.



I'm starting to read your posts in a Donald trump voice and it's fittingly hilarious.

As a physician I wouldn't even try to claim that I can evaluate "good programs" outside my own specialty yet you as a non-physician administrator are able to say it with such confidence and gusto. Suspicious.



Don't bring it up. What are you hoping to learn? What exactly is there to ask anyway? If you ask how it will affect the school they'll inevitably say "I don't know" or "it's going to be awesome". You're better off asking about clinical rotation sites and clinical education.

The "top choices in residency" is a silly non-statistic. First of all this is about people who already strategically applied to a specialty they chose based on their chance of matching into it. Second, you won't be ranking programs you didn't interview at so when someone tells you they matched at their #1 rank or a school says that 95% matched at one of their top 3 places you don't know whether they had their heart set on a list of other programs where they weren't offered interviews.

This Is precisely why I want to ask. Any time I ask I get two different answers along the lines:

A) the GME merger is going to f*ck DOs over so hard that IMGs will have better chances than them. Those filthy DOs shouldn't even be considered for dirt tier residencies.

Or

B) it won't change much at all and theoretically it will remove DO bias.

But seriously, why would the AOA even agree to the merger if it mean their own students would have useless degrees and be screwed out of residencies? It doesn't even make sense from a business stand point let along logic. If they did this knowing that most DOs will get screwed out of a residency they would effectively put themselves out of a job. Why even have the AOA at all if it means that the DO degree is going to end up being a worthless sheet of paper?

It's ludicrous to assume that the merger will happen and magically over night all US residencies will suddenly only accept MDs and IMGs without even considering DOs.



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[235009]

This Is precisely why I want to ask. Any time I ask I get two different answers along the lines:

A) the GME merger is going to f*ck DOs over so hard that IMGs will have better chances than them. Those filthy DOs shouldn't even be considered for dirt tier residencies.

Or

B) it won't change much at all and theoretically it will remove DO bias.

But seriously, why would the AOA even agree to the merger if it mean their own students would have useless degrees and be screwed out of residencies? It doesn't even make sense from a business stand point let along logic. If they did this knowing that most DOs will get screwed out of a residency they would effectively put themselves out of a job. Why even have the AOA at all if it means that the DO degree is going to end up being a worthless sheet of paper?

It's ludicrous to assume that the merger will happen and magically over night all US residencies will suddenly only accept MDs and IMGs without even considering DOs.

Either you're purposefully being inflammatory and hyperbolic or you have a severe reading comprehension deficit.

The AOA was forced to accept the merger because the ACGME threatened to lock all AOA residency graduates out of ACGME fellowships. This would not only serve as a huge slam on the ability to market DOs but in essence is a public repudiation of AOA training as inadequate.

No one is saying that IMGs are going to come out like bandits here or match better than DOs but this is definitely an advantage for them and anyone who says that this is a huge negative for IMGs is being extremely disingenuous and has an ulterior motive.

There is one positive for DOs coming from the merger: that qualified DOs won't have to skip the ACGME match to play it safe in the DO match. They'll be able to rank all programs together and may end up matching better than they would have in the current system where the AOA is holding them hostage by having their match first. Other than that though the DOs got a raw deal ...which should come as no surprise since their hands were tied.

 

[Goro]

Bad question to ask? Anything that could have been easily answered by looking at the school's website?

Good question: ask students why they came there.

@Goro

Although I'm a long way from applying, I wanted to know if you could provide an example of a good question and an example of a not so good/ annoying question for the interviewer?

 

[Goro]

Remember that most people who speak about the merger have zero knowledge of what they're talking about, and are merely reflecting their wishful thinking and/or igorance.

This Is precisely why I want to ask. Any time I ask I get two different answers along the lines:

A) the GME merger is going to f*ck DOs over so hard that IMGs will have better chances than them. Those filthy DOs shouldn't even be considered for dirt tier residencies.

Or

B) it won't change much at all and theoretically it will remove DO bias.

But seriously, why would the AOA even agree to the merger if it mean their own students would have useless degrees and be screwed out of residencies? It doesn't even make sense from a business stand point let along logic. If they did this knowing that most DOs will get screwed out of a residency they would effectively put themselves out of a job. Why even have the AOA at all if it means that the DO degree is going to end up being a worthless sheet of paper?

It's ludicrous to assume that the merger will happen and magically over night all US residencies will suddenly only accept MDs and IMGs without even considering DOs.



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[ATPsynthase123]

Either you're purposefully being inflammatory and hyperbolic or you have a severe reading comprehension deficit.

The AOA was forced to accept the merger because the ACGME threatened to lock all AOA residency graduates out of ACGME fellowships. This would not only serve as a huge slam on the ability to market DOs but in essence is a public repudiation of AOA training as inadequate.

No one is saying that IMGs are going to come out like bandits here or match better than DOs but this is definitely an advantage for them and anyone who says that this is a huge negative for IMGs is being extremely disingenuous and has an ulterior motive.

There is one positive for DOs coming from the merger: that qualified DOs won't have to skip the ACGME match to play it safe in the DO match. They'll be able to rank all programs together and may end up matching better than they would have in the current system where the AOA is holding them hostage by having their match first. Other than that though the DOs got a raw deal ...which should come as no surprise since their hands were tied.

Maybe I misread what you were saying, sorry if I came off a little fired up over this.

I actually just read about them being forced into it.

But realistically, If there truly are more residency spots in the U.S. than there are USMGs, then why are people getting bent out of shape over it?

Worst case scenario everything stays the same and the qualified US MD/DO students get residency spots and the IMGs get what's left. Maybe the only people who end up not matching are the under-qualified or weak graduates with year repeats or multiple USMLE/COMLEX failures.

So does this mean if a DO student does well, they are virtually fine?

What worries me is busting my ass in class and doing well on COMLEX, then not being able to get a residency because I went to the wrong type of school.


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[Shotapp]

OK. Thanks Goro. When the time comes, I will definitely review/study your updated interview tips during my application cycle.

 

[235009]

Maybe I misread what you were saying, sorry if I came off a little fired up over this.

I actually just read about them being forced into it.

But realistically, If there truly are more residency spots in the U.S. than there are USMGs, then why are people getting bent out of shape over it?

Worst case scenario everything stays the same and the qualified US MD/DO students get residency spots and the IMGs get what's left. Maybe the only people who end up not matching are the under-qualified or weak graduates with year repeats or multiple USMLE/COMLEX failures.

So does this mean if a DO student does well, they are virtually fine?

What worries me is busting my ass in class and doing well on COMLEX, then not being able to get a residency because I went to the wrong type of school.

The notion that "IMGs get what's left" is a ridiculous fantasy perpetuated in the osteo and pre-osteo forums on SDN. I know a lot of DOs would like to think that they're automatically preferred over all IMGs but that's not the case. To many residency programs SGU grads (for instance) are a known commodity that offer them a steady stream of reliable residents. What makes you think that these programs will all of a sudden dump them for DOs? It's completely illogical. While it's true that IMGs will now have more competition from DOs that may have settled for the AOA match in the past they will still have thousands of additional programs to apply to so it'll probably end up being a wash for them (or you'll see them matching in a larger geographic distribution as a result).

Define "fine"? Will you get a residency spot if you work hard and pass everything....yes. Will your effort be rewarded similarly to a US MDs....absolutely not.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

The notion that "IMGs get what's left" is a ridiculous fantasy perpetuated in the osteo and pre-osteo forums on SDN. I know a lot of DOs would like to think that they're automatically preferred over all IMGs but that's not the case. To many residency programs SGU grads (for instance) are a known commodity that offer them a steady stream of reliable residents. What makes you think that these programs will all of a sudden dump them for DOs? It's completely illogical. While it's true that IMGs will now have more competition from DOs that may have settled for the AOA match in the past they will still have thousands of additional programs to apply to so it'll probably end up being a wash for them (or you'll see them matching in a larger geographic distribution as a result).

Define "fine"? Will you get a residency spot if you work hard and pass everything....yes. Will your effort be rewarded similarly to a US MDs....absolutely not.

Fine as in doing well in class and on the STEP/COMLEX. I'm not concerned with academic medicine, residencies at Johns Hopkins or ridiculously competitive specialties like neurosurgery or Derm. I just want a good residency in some kind of primary care when I get out.


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[235009]

Fine as in doing well in class and on the STEP/COMLEX. I'm not concerned with academic medicine, residencies at Johns Hopkins or ridiculously competitive specialties like neurosurgery or Derm. I just want a good residency in some kind of primary care when I get out.

You'll get one.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

What worries me is busting my ass in class and doing well on COMLEX, then not being able to get a residency because I went to the wrong type of school.

Dude you'll be fine. Chill. The merger will likely actually help the students aiming for PC because they can rank all the programs they interview at together and not have to give up on a better ACGME program because they were worried about passing up AOA. The people who will probably get hit the worst will be the bottom of the class and red flag DOs who snuck into unfilled AOA spots and also the good but not great students who were able to sneak into a competative specialty through the AOA match. An applicant competative for whatever field they are aiming for will probably still match fine if they apply smartly. But the days are most likely over where someone could get an ortho residency because they auditioned well with a below average board score. If you want ortho then you had better have the app for it. (Ortho is just an example)