gotta love matching in psych.....

[OldPsychDoc]

BRB, going to create alternative IDs for each of my diagnosis - maybe my anxiety disorder can start an argument with my depression whilst my ADD goes off on tangents somewhere and the remains of my cluster B issues stomps its foot and pouts in a corner. Too entertaining or not enough?

As long as one of you doesn't open up a private dance therapy practice and start posting about it...
;-)

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[Ceke2002]

As long as one of you doesn't open up a private dance therapy practice and start posting about it...
;-)

How about a Gentleman's Club therapy practice instead? People can pour out their woes whilst pondering the magnificence of mammary glands.

 

[jakeislove]

As long as one of you doesn't open up a private dance therapy practice and start posting about it...
;-)

Alas, poor Novo! I knew him OldPsychDoc....

 

[vistaril]

It's a simple practicality.

Edited to add: By the way I am well aware of the dichotomy of life experiences (no awareness of happiness without the experience of sadness, no light without darkness, no growth without necessary destruction, etc etc) it happens to be a core part of my spiritual practice. However clinical depression is not simple sadness, a diagnosed anxiety disorder is not a simple case of having the occasional attack of bad nerves, and ADD is not merely being a tad forgetful or scatterbrained from time to time. I personally choose to tackle my issues with a strictly limited use of medication unless it becomes absolutely necessary, preferring to rely on meditative practices, exercise, spirituality and guidance received in talk therapy instead. You've questioned my diagnosis before, to the point that you were edging dangerously close to contravening the forum's TOS - I'd prefer it if you refrained from heading down that path again.

I think it's more me questioning the relevance of dx based on current dx criteria and practice.

 

[jakeislove]

Then why refer to it as a disorder at all?

Why do people love labels so much?

 

[Shikima]

Why do people love labels so much?

The box is easier to manage at times.

 

[vistaril]

Why do people love labels so much?

The vast majority(I'd bet over 85 percent but I don't have any data on me) of people who regularly see a psychiatrist in any capacity are on psych drugs. And by psych drugs I don't mean just a prn sleep aid or prn benzo. So if the prescriber is giving them psych drugs, there has to be a dx right? Because drugs and dx/disorder go together....at least in the minds if most.

So in many cases both parties involved in the transaction believe they are involved in the transaction for drugs, either to prescribe or receive them. When both parties enter the encounter with those expectations, of course the dx us going to follow.

 

[jakeislove]

The vast majority(I'd bet over 85 percent but I don't have any data on me) of people who regularly see a psychiatrist in any capacity are on psych drugs. And by psych drugs I don't mean just a prn sleep aid or prn benzo. So if the prescriber is giving them psych drugs, there has to be a dx right? Because drugs and dx/disorder go together....at least in the minds if most.

So in many cases both parties involved in the transaction believe they are involved in the transaction for drugs, either to prescribe or receive them. When both parties enter the encounter with those expectations, of course the dx us going to follow.

I'm guessing labels give people a frame of reference and some feeling of control over things.

 

[Ceke2002]

I think it's more me questioning the relevance of dx based on current dx criteria and practice.

My diagnosis are actually neither here nor there for me, not anymore. However for the sake of discussion I will tend to refer to what I am diagnosed with because it makes it easier for people to conceptualise, plus it also helps to somewhat weed out the 'OMG why do you need to see a Psychiatrist, I felt a bit down last month but I managed to get on with life, just pull yourself up by the bootstraps' brigade (like I said, simple practicality). But yes, at one point knowing what my diagnosis were was more important to me, not because of some idea that Psychiatry means I must be prescribed psych meds therefore I must be diagnosed with something, but because knowledge is power in my mind. That importance/emphasis on diagnosis has since changed over the years as I've worked more with my current Psychiatrist.

And trust me, my Psychiatrist is well and truly up on current dx criteria and practice.

 

[Ceke2002]

Why do people love labels so much?

Just personally, as much as I prefer not to rubber stamp myself the use of labels is far easier at times and can cut through a lot of unnecessary narrative exposition. To give a non Psychiatric example, if someone asked about my sexuality I could launch into a duck's ar%e explanation detailing what percentages of attraction I feel towards which gender (binary or otherwise) at any one time depending on whether the attraction is attributed to physical, emotional or romantic desires ~ or I could just say 'I'm bisexual' and be done with it. Accepting the use of labels for the purpose of practicality, simplification, personal knowledge or education does not automatically follow that one must then be beholden to them as Vistaril seems to be somewhat implying in his prior example. Just my opinion of course.

 

[notdeadyet]

Salpingo- hats off, props, or whatever the kids are saying today...

Ceke2002- the more you feed it, the hungrier it gets. Arguing with V is a little like subtraction stew, if you're a Phantom Tollbooth fan (sorry, have been on a mission to get my God kid on a reader's path).

 

[Ceke2002]

Ceke2002- the more you feed it, the hungrier it gets. Arguing with V is a little like subtraction stew, if you're a Phantom Tollbooth fan (sorry, have been on a mission to get my God kid on a reader's path).

Yes, true, although it does provide some much needed distraction on the odd occasion. Good luck instilling a love of the written word in your God kid as well, it's definitely a mission worth undertaking ~ 'tis a pity I can't just gift wrap some of my life long fondness of literature for you.

 

[vistaril]

Salpingo- hats off, props, or whatever the kids are saying today...

Ceke2002- the more you feed it, the hungrier it gets. Arguing with V is a little like subtraction stew, if you're a Phantom Tollbooth fan (sorry, have been on a mission to get my God kid on a reader's path).

It's more like those relationships where the guy cuts a girl lose and the girl sends him text messages day after day- "I hate you"...."you are a horrible person"...."we are never getting back together"..."I'm glad we aren't dating anymore"....and the guy is like "umm ok"

This forum is a neat diversion for those interested in psychiatry(whether med students, clinicians, residents, etc) Treating it as anything more than that is silly.

 

[Salpingo]

BRB, going to create alternative IDs for each of my diagnosis - maybe my anxiety disorder can start an argument with my depression whilst my ADD goes off on tangents somewhere and the remains of my cluster B issues stomps its foot and pouts in a corner. Too entertaining or not enough?

I'd like to see some of your material before I can judge. But the important thing isn't the manifest content of the fantasy, but what you do with it. You have to impose it on others in a way that they can experience it as an act of aggression. Any true borderline patient can employ projective identification, but a troll is able to project onto dozens if not hundreds without even looking them directly in the eye. For example in this thread, Vistaril Jr. forced others into a world in which you could almost fail out of medical school and still be actively recruited by Emory/UNC. You now have to live with him in his reaction formation towards psychiatry, a place that is both welcoming and humiliating. Then, and this is important as well, once the viewer is engaged in the enactment, dismiss them with something along the lines of "why do you care about me so much?" further frustrating their libidinal energy.

One exercise is constructing a medical student in your mind, one so thoughtful and intelligent you would love to have them as a colleague, but impressionable enough that they believe the words of a self-professed dance therapist who posts about dancing away from their client after a fall.

But that is all initiate level work. A true master is able to voice just enough misogyny/racism/homophobia that their audience inwardly cringes, but not enough to fully violate TOS. To help develop this skill, I would watch Fox News at least 16-20 hours/day. The clinical term for it is "Diet Racism":

 

[jakeislove]

I'd like to see some of your material before I can judge. But the important thing isn't the manifest content of the fantasy, but what you do with it. You have to impose it on others in a way that they can experience it as an act of aggression. Any true borderline patient can employ projective identification, but a troll is able to project onto dozens if not hundreds without even looking them directly in the eye. For example in this thread, Vistaril Jr. forced others into a world in which you could almost fail out of medical school and still be actively recruited by Emory/UNC. You now have to live with him in his reaction formation towards psychiatry, a place that is both welcoming and humiliating. Then, and this is important as well, once the viewer is engaged in the enactment, dismiss them with something along the lines of "why do you care about me so much?" further frustrating their libidinal energy.

One exercise is constructing a medical student in your mind, one so thoughtful and intelligent you would love to have them as a colleague, but impressionable enough that they believe the words of a self-professed dance therapist who posts about dancing away from their client after a fall.

But that is all initiate level work. A true master is able to voice just enough misogyny/racism/homophobia that their audience inwardly cringes, but not enough to fully violate TOS. To help develop this skill, I would watch Fox News at least 16-20 hours/day. The clinical term for it is "Diet Racism":

True art causes a visceral reaction in its audience.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I have to say that I am glad that Vistaril posts on this board. It makes it a bit more interesting than the psychology board where we almost always end up mired in the professional schools putting out too many less qualified psychologists for too much money. It's probably a good thing that he didn't match into anesthesiology, experiencing some failure helps keep our arrogance in check and makes for a better practitioner.

 

[slappy]

Sigh. If only everyone would just ignore posters like vistaril, this forum would be so much easier to follow, and that much nicer to visit.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Sigh. If only everyone would just ignore posters like vistaril, this forum would be so much easier to follow, and that much nicer to visit.

Vistaril has made this forum very unpleasant to visit for the past... I'm guessing 4 years or so. He's so anti-psychiatry that for 3 of those years I was convinced he was impersonating a psych resident just to appear authoritative. It's just pathetic now. There's used car salesmen, and then there's Vistaril.

 

[Nasrudin]

I have to say that I am glad that Vistaril posts on this board. It makes it a bit more interesting than the psychology board where we almost always end up mired in the professional schools putting out too many less qualified psychologists for too much money. It's probably a good thing that he didn't match into anesthesiology, experiencing some failure helps keep our arrogance in check and makes for a better practitioner.

The benefits of failure is personality structure dependent. It's not the failure that produces humility and perspective. Rather, the proper reckoning of it with the will and drive to do better.

I've ignored that vile worm. And my experience here has been better. And that doesn't mean I prefer an insular self cheering amway revival either. That seems to be the singular point of the vistaril approval bleecher section.

 

[smalltownpsych]

The benefits of failure is personality structure dependent. It's not the failure that produces humility and perspective. Rather, the proper reckoning of it with the will and drive to do better.

I've ignored that vile worm. And my experience here has been better. And that doesn't mean I prefer an insular self cheering amway revival either. That seems to be the singular point of the vistaril approval bleecher section.

Very true about the failure being personality dependent some will just double down on their narcissistic defense.

I am a bit surprised by the vitriolic reaction that you have to Vistaril. Of course, I may have missed some of his worst postings, but much of what I have seen, although often inaccurate or overstated, doesn't seem too bad. On the other hand, I assume he is not a practicing physician so tend to read in that light.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I never thought to assume that Vistaril wasn’t a practicing physician. If he isn’t, he sure has researched a lot about the psychiatry job market. I think he just likes to argue. If someone says the sky is blue, he would post back that it is a little grey depending upon what direction you are looking and where you are standing.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I never thought to assume that Vistaril wasn’t a practicing physician. If he isn’t, he sure has researched a lot about the psychiatry job market. I think he just likes to argue. If someone says the sky is blue, he would post back that it is a little grey depending upon what direction you are looking and where you are standing.

I guess I question it because I always thought that Novopsych, the dancing psychiatrist, seemed the more credible of the two.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

So it appears that credibility is inversely proportional to the number of posting accounts one has.

 

[Ceke2002]

On the other hand, I assume he is not a practicing physician so tend to read in that light.

I never thought to assume that Vistaril wasn’t a practicing physician. If he isn’t, he sure has researched a lot about the psychiatry job market. I think he just likes to argue. If someone says the sky is blue, he would post back that it is a little grey depending upon what direction you are looking and where you are standing.

I thought it had been established a while ago, when doubts were continuing to circulate, that Vistaril was in fact a practicing Physician. There's a thread somewhere, I'm sure - something about someone vouching/providing proof based on some evidence that I can't exactly remember off the top of my head at 4 in the morning.

 

[Shikima]

I really had hoped Novo and Vistaril would have connected romantically. It would have made for such interesting dynamics. Alas, Novo is but a crafty figment.

Would have turned out better than 'Days of our Lives'.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I never thought to assume that Vistaril wasn’t a practicing physician. If he isn’t, he sure has researched a lot about the psychiatry job market. I think he just likes to argue. If someone says the sky is blue, he would post back that it is a little grey depending upon what direction you are looking and where you are standing.

It typically bothers me more when he extrapolates statements on worldwide climate based on his own local weather report.

 

[Salpingo]

I've ignored that vile worm. And my experience here has been better. And that doesn't mean I prefer an insular self cheering amway revival either. That seems to be the singular point of the vistaril approval bleecher section.

As a member of the bleecher section (although I prefer to think of it as the luxury box): If you're repulsed by personality pathology, you might be in the wrong line of business.

 

[Nasrudin]

As a member of the bleecher section (although I prefer to think of it as the luxury box): If you're repulsed by personality pathology, you might be in the wrong line of business.

This has occurred to me but has been only certain personality pathology of the devious, manipulative sort. I'll have to guard against it. But this is also not a clinical context. Some people like it as theater I suppose. Call me a cornball but I've always thought that at its best, it has been a place to interact with mentors and colleagues to learn specifics of the field. The sort that might not be freely obtainable everywhere.

As such deception is corrosive. As theater anything creating dramatic tension is desirable. In which case V is interesting. Which is why I liked your description of the interactions.

 

[NotTheBestUSMLE]

As a member of the bleecher section (although I prefer to think of it as the luxury box): If you're repulsed by personality pathology, you might be in the wrong line of business.

Diverting a little from the V commentary. I try to tell myself that sometimes, but it's just so much more difficult when the person with the personality disorder/strong personality cluster traits isn't a patient. I think it's the power dynamics. Worst when it's a supervisor.

 

[notdeadyet]

As a member of the bleecher section (although I prefer to think of it as the luxury box): If you're repulsed by personality pathology, you might be in the wrong line of business.

I have never understood the logic that we should hold the same set of standards for our colleagues as our patients.