GPA Rumor

[zach1201]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Is it true medical schools add on "extra" points to your GPA if you come from a top tier (e.g. Ivy League) school.

For example: If you have a 3.5 GPA but graduated from a top tier school, a medical school will add on .1 to your overall.

I've heard this is true and was wondering if anybody else has heard this.

 

[bbas]

No.

 

[Wildstang]

Ive heard that too...doubt it though.

 

[Robizzle]

i've heard rumors that harvard grade inflates their undergrads so everyone graduates with 3.7's-4.0's. So with that rumor on top of my rumor everyone gets 3.8+!!! 😀

 

[MSTP?]

x

 

[8744]

Is it true medical schools add on "extra" points to your GPA if you come from a top tier (e.g. Ivy League) school.

For example: If you have a 3.5 GPA but graduated from a top tier school, a medical school will add on .1 to your overall.

I've heard this is true and was wondering if anybody else has heard this.

Hi.

You have it backwards. They subtract points for going to a "top tier" school secondary to the rampant grade inflation. They will add up to 0.3 points to a GPA for applicants who did their pre-requisites at a community college.

Glad I could help.

P. Bear, MD
PGY-1 Emergency Medicine
Somewhere in the Midwest

 

[sendwich]

no, i dont think they add points to the GPA but if you're from a more competitive school (whatever that means), your overall "points" (GPA+MCAT+ETCETC) goes up a few points. (I talked to an adcomm at BU about this)

 

[nekrogg]

Hi.

You have it backwards. They subtract points for going to a "top tier" school secondary to the rampant grade inflation. They will add up to 0.3 points to a GPA for applicants who did their pre-requisites at a community college.

Glad I could help.

P. Bear, MD
PGY-1 Emergency Medicine
Somewhere in the Midwest

lol

 

[Darkshooter326]

Med schools may not add a specific number to GPAs, but most of them do adjust GPA's based on rigor of coursework. That may mean adding to tougher schools, or subtracting from lower tiered schools. 😛

 

[ADeadLois]

I think it depends on the specific adcom, and very likely the specific person reading your app. I've talked with a few adcom members who said they know the relative difficulty of most undergraduate schools, sometimes down to individual classes (Ex: Princeton and Northwestern are known for having killer Orgo sequences).

 

[Gabujabu]

The reality at harvard is that hardly anyone graduates with a 4.0 (only a handful of people in the past decades) and getting a solid 3.8 would put you in the top 10%. The real problem with harvard up until a few years ago was that an excessive number of people were graduating w/ honors because the bar for honors was way too low. That changed a few years ago. In fact, if you go to gradeinflation.com, the average GPA at Harvard is not altogether that different from similar colleges, and many of the high grades were being given in humanities subjects. This is not quite the case in the sciences. In fact, one of the deans at Harvard told me that, at least in biology, the data indicate that there has been some deflation.

According to this article <http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=349042>, the average MCAT for Harvard students who were accepted to medical school was 34.7, which is close to the average MCAT at some of the top medical schools in the country, yet the average GPA of these students was 3.57. All I'm saying is that grades at Harvard are not quite the joke that people make them out to be.

 

[Wannabemed]

I was told "off the record" from a UCSF AdCom that UC Berkeley students get 0.3 GPA points added to their GPA...I guess that explains why UCSF is swarming with UC Berkeley graduates.

 

[SeaAngel45]

How many times will I see a thread asking this same question?

 

[bbas]

I was told "off the record" from a UCSF AdCom that UC Berkeley students get 0.3 GPA points added to their GPA...I guess that explains why UCSF is swarming with UC Berkeley graduates.

0.3?!?! 😱 That's just ridiculous.

 

[relentless11]

I was told "off the record" from a UCSF AdCom that UC Berkeley students get 0.3 GPA points added to their GPA...I guess that explains why UCSF is swarming with UC Berkeley graduates.

A 2nd year UCSF med student who was serving as an adcom came to my school(UCD) to talk about the application process, and mentioned, that to a VERY SMALL extent, give some advantage to those at schools such as UCB. However, it was nowhere the 0.3 GPA points that you suggest. Ultimately, when MCAT (and other factors) is also considered the school effect is greatly minimized.

Therefore it comes down to the same conclusion that has been stated on several other threads about if the school name matters. You are responsible to do well in whereever you go, and whatever you major in. If everything were equal, some schools may favor the school with the bigger name. The example used by the mentioned adcom was two engineering students who both had a 4.0. One came from some random school, while the other came from UCB. The 4.0 from UCB may get a "slight" boost as he put it. But again, thats assuming everything were equal, and as we all know, they usually aren't.

 

[runion]

Yes, a neighbor of mine on the UCSD faculty who was on the adcom a while ago said that certain schools are positively weighted based on the average MCAT from the school. I was also told that some schools, particularly the California State schools, were negatively weighted. I remember a thread a while ago that had a link to the Boalt Law school (UCB) system that detailed the weightings. I can't find it anymore. Also, I don't know if this is still done.

 

[Law2Doc]

Is it true medical schools add on "extra" points to your GPA if you come from a top tier (e.g. Ivy League) school.

For example: If you have a 3.5 GPA but graduated from a top tier school, a medical school will add on .1 to your overall.

I've heard this is true and was wondering if anybody else has heard this.

I heard that the Ivy premeds are really genetically enhanced cyborgs who can study 24/7 and never need to eat. They don't need any grade help due to their perceived superior intellect, med schools just accept a few at random each year to keep their class averages up. I also heard that top tier college students have tails... 😱

 

[zach1201]

Hi.

You have it backwards. They subtract points for going to a "top tier" school secondary to the rampant grade inflation. They will add up to 0.3 points to a GPA for applicants who did their pre-requisites at a community college.

Glad I could help.

P. Bear, MD
PGY-1 Emergency Medicine
Somewhere in the Midwest

I heard that the Ivy premeds are really genetically enhanced cyborgs who can study 24/7 and never need to eat. They don't need any grade help due to their perceived superior intellect, med schools just accept a few at random each year to keep their class averages up. I also heard that top tier college students have tails... 😱

I also heard excessive sarcasm makes your genitalia fall off.

 

[Law2Doc]

I also heard excessive sarcasm makes your genitalia fall off.

Not off, just makes it grow quite a bit.

 

[notdeadyet]

I was told "off the record" from a UCSF AdCom that UC Berkeley students get 0.3 GPA points added to their GPA...I guess that explains why UCSF is swarming with UC Berkeley graduates.

UCSF takes a huge number of UC grads because the most of the best schools in California are the UCs (with the grudging exception of Stanford). The best of the UCs is arguably Cal. This is why UCSF is crawling with Cal grads. Wanting to stay in the Bay Area probably skews the numbers of where Cal grads end up going too.

 

[Veshy]

Talk about a modern day Pinocchio.....

 

[etf]

A 2nd year UCSF med student who was serving as an adcom came to my school(UCD) to talk about the application process, and mentioned, that to a VERY SMALL extent, give some advantage to those at schools such as UCB. However, it was nowhere the 0.3 GPA points that you suggest. Ultimately, when MCAT (and other factors) is also considered the school effect is greatly minimized.

Therefore it comes down to the same conclusion that has been stated on several other threads about if the school name matters. You are responsible to do well in whereever you go, and whatever you major in. If everything were equal, some schools may favor the school with the bigger name. The example used by the mentioned adcom was two engineering students who both had a 4.0. One came from some random school, while the other came from UCB. The 4.0 from UCB may get a "slight" boost as he put it. But again, thats assuming everything were equal, and as we all know, they usually aren't.

any "boost" you'd get from going to cal would be counterbalanced by the grade deflation (at least for me ) at the school.

 

[Mr. Itchy]

Harvard is a great school and all but who do they have teaching first year biology?? Yeah, the TA as usual 🙂

 

[MSTP?]

x

 

[crazy_cavalier]

For a second I thought this thread was titled "GPA Humor", and I decided to come in for a nice smile. But I see it's the same ol' obnoxious pre-allo content. 🙄

 

[notdeadyet]

For a second I thought this thread was titled "GPA Humor", and I decided to come in for a nice smile. But I see it's the same ol' obnoxious pre-allo content. 🙄

So why post?

 

[maestro1625]

I heard they deduct points for lacking the common sense to not spend 40k/year on your undergrad...

 

[mynamewastaken]

I heard they deduct points for lacking the common sense to not spend 40k/year on your undergrad...

yes it can help despite what the state schoolers say...the reason is not some magic formula though...IN GENERAL students at top undergrad schools have SAT scores significantly above average and there is a correlation between SAT and MCAT scores. This issue has been debated ad nauseum on this board and the bottom line is this...there have been a handful of people that say they work in admissions offices or know someone or what have you that clearly say going to a top school will work to your advantage....but it's very relative...what that really means is having a borderline GPA from an ivy (or even a slightly below average GPA) + a good or above average MCAT score, can get you into med school. The reason it doesn't matter much is because if those kids went to a less competitive school their GPA's would probably be higher and adcoms know that....and as mentioned before kids from ivy's are typically great standardized test takers that's just fact....you can flip through md applicants.com and see many students from top 5 ugrads with 3.0-3.3 GPA's having MCAT scores of 35+ and having little trouble getting into a school. The undergrad rep won't make you a lock but if you do "well" it can help.

 

[ahumdinger]

The best way to compare grade inflation at schools is to look at what the honors cut-off is. This is an indication of what is considered outstanding work at the school. For example, places like Harvard has the honors cut off set at something like 3.7 (they actually had to increase it to this!) and a school like University of Chicago, the honors cut off is 3.25. if it's considered an honor to get 3.25+, then you gotta treat that GPA a little differently than the equivalent or even higher from Harvard.

Ah but I am bitter and biased!

 

[mynamewastaken]

The best way to compare grade inflation at schools is to look at what the honors cut-off is. This is an indication of what is considered outstanding work at the school. For example, places like Harvard has the honors cut off set at something like 3.7 (they actually had to increase it to this!) and a school like University of Chicago, the honors cut off is 3.25. if it's considered an honor to get 3.25+, then you gotta treat that GPA a little differently than the equivalent or even higher from Harvard.

Ah but I am bitter and biased!

Not to start a war here, but "grade inflation" is completely irrelevant for many reasons. The first reason is people from these "easy ivy league schools" constantly attest to the competition and difficulty at said schools while the people making the claims are people who have never spent anytime (more than a summer class) at these schools.....secondly, you have to realize the irony behind all these claims....let's take general chemistry at Princeton for example....a good friend of mine shed some light on this issue for me by explaining to me that the majority of his gchem class at princeton finds the class a joke....sure the exams are difficult, but it's undergraduate level general chemistry...it can only be so hard....and when you have a class full of Princeton students 90% + learn and do well. It's not that classes at Ivy's are easy it's that these classes are somewhat generic and a student body at princeton is gonna be way way different than a student body at State....Harvard's grade inflated sciences are still difficult, but in order for the profs to make the class look like a state school bell curve, they would need to teach and test the class at a graduate level. I can only speak for one Ivy (and one tier 2 private liberal arts school because i transferred) but you were definitely not "taken care of" at the Ivy....it was hard and for ever kid that couldn't hack it there was 10 that thought the class was a joke....

 

[mynamewastaken]

and to reply specifically to the last post....i agree 3.25 for honors seems absurd, but the Univ. of Chicago is one of the best schools in the country and that number won't really matter in the long run....3.25 might get you honors, but not into grad school. That fact, however, doesn't take anything away from the school or the student body....

 

[Law2Doc]

The best way to compare grade inflation at schools is to look at what the honors cut-off is. This is an indication of what is considered outstanding work at the school. For example, places like Harvard has the honors cut off set at something like 3.7 (they actually had to increase it to this!) and a school like University of Chicago, the honors cut off is 3.25. if it's considered an honor to get 3.25+, then you gotta treat that GPA a little differently than the equivalent or even higher from Harvard.

Ah but I am bitter and biased!

Harvard had a bit of a grade inflation fiasco a few decades back (80s) when it was reported in the national media that greater than 90% of each graduating class was graduating "with honors". It made honors at Harvard meaningless and they have reportedly taken steps to remedy this. The problem though was not the cumulative cut off grade used, but the fact that some profs used to not generally give anyone a grade below a B+, because students were assumed to be at least at that minimum by virtue of having been accepted at Harvard. I suspect this issue has been remedied after a lot of bad press.

 

[zach1201]

Believe you me, if I went to my state school, I could easily pull a 3.9+. I'm currently taking biochemistry there and it is a joke. On the flipside, if I took biochem at my normal university, I would have to struggle to get the same grade. For science courses, when you have 800 students enrolled and the median grade ~ B-/C+ and all science classes are curved to this standard, there isn't any grade inflation.

Stating this, ADCOMS know about these trends and take it into account. They may or may not add a certain amount of "points" but they will notice the undergraduate institute you went too.

P.S. Like the picture of the drinking squirrel? It's real and I happened to have my camera and catch the squirrel in the act.

 

[yobynaes]

Is it true medical schools add on "extra" points to your GPA if you come from a top tier (e.g. Ivy League) school.

For example: If you have a 3.5 GPA but graduated from a top tier school, a medical school will add on .1 to your overall.

I've heard this is true and was wondering if anybody else has heard this.

i highly doubt that

 

[EBI831]

i sense a lot of harvard bashing. it might be synonymous with jealousy. also, the consensus on sdn forums from what i've read has been that no one knows what is added or subtracted or if everyone is equal weight some say yes, some say no, and there are those--that i call academic democrats-- who will argue til they're old and wrinkly that it doesnt matter where u went undergrad and everyone is equal. so i don't know if you'll ever get the answer u r looking for from this thread

 

[R.P. McMurphy]

I also heard excessive sarcasm makes your genitalia fall off.

that's an awkward joke if i ever heard one

 

[Wahoos]

3.7 GPA from Harvard is looked upon as the same as 3.7 from East Carolina University...... that is why everyone takes the MCAT.... to level the playing field. How ever, the prestige of the undergrad is taken into account when the interview offers are sent out. Given 2 people with the same App/Stats/GPA, the Harvard guy would probably get the interview over the ECU guy. A 3.9 GPA/33 MCAT guy from ECU looks better than a 3.3 GPA/33 MCAT guy from Harvard..... given if they both have similar Apps.

 

[maestro1625]

3.7 GPA from Harvard is looked upon as the same as 3.7 from East Carolina University...... that is why everyone takes the MCAT.... to level the playing field. How ever, the prestige of the undergrad is taken into account when the interview offers are sent out. Given 2 people with the same App/Stats/GPA, the Harvard guy would probably get the interview over the ECU guy. A 3.9 GPA/33 MCAT guy from ECU looks better than a 3.3 GPA/33 MCAT guy from Harvard..... given if they both have similar Apps.

Although if you pulled a 30+ MCAT at a low tier school like ECU or a Western Michigan, or whatever, you probably have a damn good sob story to go with your app.

 

[Kuba]

Top-tier undergrad schools rarely hand out poor grades. This means that for the same work and understanding, a Harvard premed might have a higher gpa than a State U premed. Althought this might not sound fair, I can see that the Harvard premed is competing with a much tougher crowd than the State U premed. I bet it all works out in the end. However, adcoms should not add points to any gpas, because they have no way of knowing how much the student really learned. That is what the MCAT is for.

 

[zach1201]

that's an awkward joke if i ever heard one

Wasn't a joke.


The GPA field isn't level. I do know for a fact that in the upcoming years, medical schools will put more weight on MCAT scores rather than GPAs. This comes directly from the Dean of Admissions for University of Colorado.

 

[Anastasis]

Although if you pulled a 30+ MCAT at a low tier school like ECU or a Western Michigan, or whatever, you probably have a damn good sob story to go with your app.

Nope, no sob story here. 🙄

 

[maestro1625]

Wasn't a joke.


The GPA field isn't level. I do know for a fact that in the upcoming years, medical schools will put more weight on MCAT scores rather than GPAs. This comes directly from the Dean of Admissions for University of Colorado.

I'd belive that that's currently the case at most places.

 

[iceman77_7]

Top-tier undergrad schools rarely hand out poor grades. This means that for the same work and understanding, a Harvard premed might have a higher gpa than a State U premed. Althought this might not sound fair, I can see that the Harvard premed is competing with a much tougher crowd than the State U premed. I bet it all works out in the end. However, adcoms should not add points to any gpas, because they have no way of knowing how much the student really learned. That is what the MCAT is for.

I disagree. I got a 36 this past April and barely have a 3.4 at a top tier private university, with a lower BCPM. The median in our pre-med classes is never above a B, sometimes it's even a C. I would know.

 

[relentless11]

Wasn't a joke.


The GPA field isn't level. I do know for a fact that in the upcoming years, medical schools will put more weight on MCAT scores rather than GPAs. This comes directly from the Dean of Admissions for University of Colorado.

Don't generalize your statement. This is not the case at the University of California. Plenty of discussion about the pros and cons of GPA vs. MCAT. This is why UC has stayed with treating both GPA and MCAT EQUALLY.

 

[maestro1625]

Don't generalize your statement. This is not the case at the University of California. Plenty of discussion about the pros and cons of GPA vs. MCAT. This is why UC has stayed with treating both GPA and MCAT EQUALLY.

to be quite honest I'd think that most schools would consider variations in GPA less important than variations in MCAT... makes more sense at least.

 

[Andre04]

I don't think that they could really do this (add points for top schools). Reason being that even among the most competitive schools there's a lot of variation in grading philosophy, making a GPA "handicapping" system nearly impossible. Your Berkeley, U Chicago or Johns Hopkins are right on par with the Ivies in rigor, but are tougher grade-wise -- would you add .2 for them, and .1 for Ivy schools? That'd ruffle some feathers I think. And what about no-name schools that give the same kind of grades? How do you even judge if grade inflation is going on? High average GPAs could just as easily mean a smart, motivated student body as inflated grades.

Certainly adcoms could make extra allowances for graduates of very tough schools, but that would only happen after they've gone through automatic screens. I don't know any way to quantify and adjust for grade inflation (or deinflation as it may be) in terms of concrete numbers. Students who choose tough schools should know that they're playing with the big boys and their GPA may suffer.

 

[ahumdinger]

I disagree. I got a 36 this past April and barely have a 3.4 at a top tier private university, with a lower BCPM. The median in our pre-med classes is never above a B, sometimes it's even a C. I would know.

Good luck iceman! i'm pulling for you!

 

[relentless11]

to be quite honest I'd think that most schools would consider variations in GPA less important than variations in MCAT... makes more sense at least.

It really depends though. UC also screens GPA. Usually those with <3.2 GPA and <24 on the MCAT will not get a secondary. The key point though is GPA shows performance under rigorous conditions, while MCAT standardizes the subjects that are covered on the test to attempt to equalize any variations among schools.

Ultimately the MCAT is just a single test that can be prepared for, while your GPA over the course of quarters/semeters or years depends on many factors. Clearly a 4.0 as a full time student is more impressive than a 4.0 as a part-time student (given not working or other factors). Thus, these are few of the reasons why the director of admissions at UC Davis stated that MCAT and GPA are treated EQUALLY.

Additionally variations in GPA is a vague term. You can have ups and downs, or an upward/downward trend. Some schools weight this factor by a lot. For instance, University of Washington will recalculate your undergrad GPA into a "weighted GPA", where the GPA you earned in the first year is multiplied by 1, the GPA you earned in the 2nd year is multiplied by 2, and the GPA you earned in the 3rd year is multiplied by 3. The sum of these products are then divided by 6 to yield the weighted GPA. The purpose of such a system is to give more weight to those with an upward trend. See UW FAQ for further details.

I must emphasize, NOT all schools weigh one thing over another. There are something like 125 schools that use AMCAS, and at least 5 under the UC system do not follow the trends you mention. If i recall Stanford, USC, and Tulane also have their system which does not reflect MCAT > GPA. I do not dispute your claims, but not every school does what you said, and I find it unlikely that a majority of the 125 AAMC schools do the same as well.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

Although if you pulled a 30+ MCAT at a low tier school like ECU or a Western Michigan, or whatever, you probably have a damn good sob story to go with your app.

they'll be drowning in their tears.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

here's what an adcom lady from Stanford said at the old pre-meds conference last year. they take the competitiveness of a program and assign it a number from 1-5 and then use that in a formula with your GPA. she used Oberlin as an example of a 5, meaning one of the hardest in terms of GPA. if you went to two schools, they use the number for the one you spent more time at or graduated from or something (i remember because i thought "oh crap" because I took my science classes at Oberlin but graduated from my local state school) so, they know about grade inflation at each school apparently and deal with it on an individual basis. but that's separate from other factors: brand name appeal for harvard etc., alum preference for alma mater, etc. coming from a rich people school is always going to help you out in life. that's why the rich people set it up that way. they're not as dumb as you think...