GPAs at different schools

[IMSingular]

Truth: I went to a state school where I majored in a program that was pretty high rigor. Still, I probably wouldn't have done as well gpa-wise if I had gone to an Ivy or top private. However, I graduated with $0 debt and have gotten interviews at many top medical schools, so I'm fairly content.

You did very smart and wise. I actually don't believe that concentrating talent at few schools is good. Very good student at the bottom of barrel will have lot of negative feedback. My advice is always go to the school that gives you scholarship; that means you are at the top of the barrel, and will have lot of positive feedback. If you have personal motivation the school is not a major player. Unfortunately system is screwed up and schools try to show off their prestige through what is their average SAT score etc. Rather diversified level of talent at all schools will have more benefit to the society. If I were to win a lotto I would rathe support a state school rather than prestgious school even though that might be my alma mater.

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[dartmed]

You did very smart and wise. I actually don't believe that concentrating talent at few schools is good. Very good student at the bottom of barrel will have lot of negative feedback. My advice is always go to the school that gives you scholarship; that means you are at the top of the barrel, and will have lot of positive feedback. If you have personal motivation the school is not a major player. Unfortunately system is screwed up and schools try to show off their prestige through what is their average SAT score etc. Rather diversified level of talent at all schools will have more benefit to the society. If I were to win a lotto I would rathe support a state school rather than prestgious school even though that might be my alma mater.

Agreed. I choose my school that way. Sometimes I wish I had gone to Columbia or Upenn, but at the same time, I am glad that I have 0 dollars in debt.

 

[fudGez14]

the financial aspect is always an important factor when you're deciding whether to attend a high cost private school or your instate school. but at least for me, HYP was much cheaper than attending any of my state schools (even with regents). you have to keep in mind that the top schools have much better financial aid programs and for students who are at the lower end of the bracket, going to one of these top private universities will end up being much more beneficial both academically and financially as opposed to the state school.

as for the one previous poster that was talking about having ivies having higher MCAT's than normal, take Brown for instance (an ivy), which posted an average MCAT of 33, well above the national mean. Assuming that the other ivies (like HYP) are better/on the same level, 33/34, this is saying that AVERAGE applicant gets this score. so there is merit to our scores. it also has been stated in other threads that the average applicant at yale has a 34.

http://www.brown.edu/Administration/Dean_of_the_College/hco/data/

 

[cuculici1]

Columbia's average MD applicant has a MCAT score of 34 but a GPA of only 3.6c, 3.5s. Applicants with these stats from Columbia historically have had a 90% chance of getting in.

This pretty much confirms that med schools take into account the rigor of the academic program, and it shows on the MCAT (average score in the 90th percentile or higher).

 

[pre med 2014]

Is a GPA at an Ivy school considered better than the same GPA at a ****tier university, say like Princeton vs some SUNY school?

Do Ivy's have grade inflation?

 

[Classof2013PreM]

Do Ivy's have grade inflation?

While some do have inflated average GPAs (i.e. Yale and Harvard), others such as Cornell and Princeton are known for their rigor. In fact, google "Princeton grade deflation" and a bunch of articles should come up about grade inflation and Princeton's efforts to combat this effect with it's new "grade deflation" policy (which makes life much tougher for me...haha)

 

[MelMelisqueen]

Hmm this thread makes me worry that i'll be looked down upon for going to state school wherever I end up

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

well.
There is lot of truth in what dbate says.
Top students at mit, caltech, harvard, princeton, berkeley generally don't go to medical schools. They tend to go to science, engineering and math. Their dream is nobel prize or field medal or solve some unsolved problem which will etch their name in history of science and technolgy. Look at putnam competition in mathematics, not mcat, to really measure the level. Well i atteneded one of the top schools, and taught some courses at state level schools. If exams were set at the level of the school i went to anyone would have hardly scored more than 70. At these schools there may be one question only one person in the whole class may be able to do, and some times not even that. So just the average score is not meaningful.

agreed.

 

[Stumpyman]

Hmm this thread makes me worry that i'll be looked down upon for going to state school wherever I end up

Pfffft.... You have a 38 Mcat and a 3.97 GPA, I bet most ivy-leaguers envy you

 

[indonacious]

IMO...and based on my anecdotal experience on the interview trail. The upper echelon schools that I have interviewed at have shown a *definite* propensity to interview applicants from Ivies and near-Ivies.

I know that there are confounding variables at play here but it seems pretty clear that while you still need to do well at these schools, if you do so it DOES seem to help.

 

[dartmed]

agreed.

I have a question for all you Ivy leaguers. Are you guys glad that you chose an Ivy or a top-notch research institution? I chose to go to mid-tier research giant because I was afraid of the competition/finances at Ivies, and I have accomplished so much and grown in a number of ways that I never imagined possible. I feel like if I had gone to Swarthmore or Columbia or Penn, I would not have been able to pursue the same range of activities.

For instance, I have 4-5 first-author publications coming-out in some pretty acclaimed journals by the time I apply. If I had gone to an Ivy league, I don't know if I would have had so much time outside of studying. I had so much more time to pursue leadership activities, and learn a lot more about myself at the mid-tier school that I chose.

In terms of the quality of education, I don't think there is so much of a difference. I think a lot of it just depends on how much you put forth in your studies, and how much you want to learn. If you push yourself to learn as much as you can, I don't think it makes a difference where you go to school for undergrad. There are Nobel laureates that went to state schools.

I have been thinking about medical school as well. Does it really matter if I go to Dartmouth or Yale or Harvard for medical school? Would I be just as good of a doctor if I went to Nebraska or Iowa (not saying these are bad schools, they are amazing in fact, but they don't have the same "prestige")? I think so. I think a lot of it just depends on how much of a difference you want to make in our world. If you are truly ambitious, you won't let the fact that Harvard students might have a little more resources than the mid-tier research giants. You will pull on these resources. In the end, you won't be taking your degrees to your grave. But, you will be taking how much impact you made in this world. For that, you don't need to be at an Ivy. All you need is intelligence, drive, and compassion.

 

[Dbate]

I have a question for all you Ivy leaguers. Are you guys glad that you chose an Ivy or a top-notch research institution? I chose to go to mid-tier research giant because I was afraid of the competition/finances at Ivies, and I have accomplished so much and grown in a number of ways that I never imagined possible. I feel like if I had gone to Swarthmore or Columbia or Penn, I would not have been able to pursue the same range of activities.

I wonder about this. My grades are pretty bad (cGPA: 3.54, sGPA: 3.39) and while my other friends at state schools are going to be going to medical school, I am taking a year off to strengthen my app. I do not doubt that my grades would have been better if I had gone to another school.

The only benefit is the people I have meet and the overall experience. I love my residential college and I will have memories that will last forever. But this can be earned at any school.

Ivy League schools are hard. In terms of the competition, I was one of the lucky ones (or worked harder) because alot of people who started out on the medical path quit because it was too hard.

For instance, I have 4-5 first-author publications coming-out in some pretty acclaimed journals by the time I apply. If I had gone to an Ivy league, I don't know if I would have had so much time outside of studying. I had so much more time to pursue leadership activities, and learn a lot more about myself at the mid-tier school that I chose.

I probably won't have any publications, so you are ahead of me.

In terms of the quality of education, I don't think there is so much of a difference. I think a lot of it just depends on how much you put forth in your studies, and how much you want to learn. If you push yourself to learn as much as you can, I don't think it makes a difference where you go to school for undergrad. There are Nobel laureates that went to state schools.

The science education at Yale is terrible. Really, really, really terrible. I have LITERALLY taught myself almost all the science I have learned because the professors have been awful. It is a myth and a lie that you will receive a high quality science education. Outside of the sciences, however, the professor are awesome.

I have been thinking about medical school as well. Does it really matter if I go to Dartmouth or Yale or Harvard for medical school? Would I be just as good of a doctor if I went to Nebraska or Iowa (not saying these are bad schools, they are amazing in fact, but they don't have the same "prestige")? I think so. I think a lot of it just depends on how much of a difference you want to make in our world. If you are truly ambitious, you won't let the fact that Harvard students might have a little more resources than the mid-tier research giants. You will pull on these resources. In the end, you won't be taking your degrees to your grave. But, you will be taking how much impact you made in this world. For that, you don't need to be at an Ivy. All you need is intelligence, drive, and compassion.

It doesn't matter where you go to medical school. Much like college, the primary reason to go is to tell people that you go there. And on the medical school level, this benefit is even less.

 

[SSLiebstandarte]

I went to Southeast Missouri State (SEMO) for 3 years with a 3.9 GPA - I then transferred to University of Chicago for the final 2 years but I could only muster a GPA of 3.5.

U of Chicago was definitely more challenging than SEMO - it wasn't even comparable, I was at a rude awakening.

In fact, the professor at SEMO hardly ever change exam questions from old ones and the marking was so lenient.

 

[MelMelisqueen]

Pfffft.... You have a 38 Mcat and a 3.97 GPA, I bet most ivy-leaguers envy you

yeah but that was at a state school so we got like 70 points just for spelling our names right (Melissa or Mellisa? so confusing)

 

[nadaba]

yeah but that was at a state school so we got like 70 points just for spelling our names right (Melissa or Mellisa? so confusing)

This comment+your avatar=

 

[EarthtoneJon]

1) Don't care

2) The class was curved to a B+/A- because it was a new professor and it was his first time teaching the course. Orgo 1 was curved to a B-.


Whenever people argue that grades are inflated, they are tacitly saying that people either didn't work to earn their grade or did not deserve that grade. The point of the averages was to demonstrate the difficulty of the material.

The chasm in intelligence of students at state schools versus Ivy schools is great. Averages mean nothing when the top 10% of students at an average state school would likely be in the bottom 10% of students at an Ivy.

To put it into perspective, at Yale about 70% of the students were valedictorian or salutatorian of their class. I was ranked 10 out of 495 in high school, which places me in the bottom 5% of the class in terms of class rank.

Can the same be said for state schools?

I attend Southern Connecticut State University (Southern who? Connecticut what? Exactly), which, if you stand far enough away from the map, seems to be situated on top of Yale University. This summer, I took a class at Yale, and felt very well situated in terms of intelligence. The only difference was, I wore boots and faded jeans to class, and the Yale students wore loafers and argyle OK, I'm joking...sort of.

As much as I respect the hard work of Ivy League students, I respect the hard work of people everywhere, and believe that the same mentality and ability that allows Ivy Leaguers to succeed drives the state schoolers to the top. I seriously doubt that, given the opportunity to study a few blocks down Whalley Avenue, I would fall to the bottom 10% of the class. Also, can't forget that intelligence is subjective, hence the constant struggle to measure the "intelligence quotient" as a separate entity from the various embodiments of intelligence in academia. When someone gets situated in his or her life's work and starts pouring in hours, brilliance and innovation defy what school he or she has attended. Not to downplay the importance of networking and post-graduate opportunities, of course.

Do you really believe that a top freshman chemistry student at a state school has an understanding of stoichiometry that is barely comparable to that of a typical Ivy League student?

 

[dartmed]

I wonder about this. My grades are pretty bad (cGPA: 3.54, sGPA: 3.39) and while my other friends at state schools are going to be going to medical school, I am taking a year off to strengthen my app. I do not doubt that my grades would have been better if I had gone to another school.

The only benefit is the people I have meet and the overall experience. I love my residential college and I will have memories that will last forever. But this can be earned at any school.

Ivy League schools are hard. In terms of the competition, I was one of the lucky ones (or worked harder) because alot of people who started out on the medical path quit because it was too hard.



I probably won't have any publications, so you are ahead of me.



The science education at Yale is terrible. Really, really, really terrible. I have LITERALLY taught myself almost all the science I have learned because the professors have been awful. It is a myth and a lie that you will receive a high quality science education. Outside of the sciences, however, the professor are awesome.



It doesn't matter where you go to medical school. Much like college, the primary reason to go is to tell people that you go there. And on the medical school level, this benefit is even less.

Dbate, I am sure they will factor in the fact that you went to Yale. I am sorry about the professors.

I have heard about Yale's sucky science department from a couple other people as well.

The professors that I have had at my mid-tier research giant were absolutely phenomenal. I had a Physiology professor a year ago, and I remember every detail that she taught me. She WAS AMAZING. I feel like I am getting a really great education with the price that I am paying (zero dollars). I am currently taking graduate courses in the sciences (Endocrinology, Human genetics, Histology, Medical Biochemistry, etc.), and the professors made it absolutely clear that I was there to learn. They would give out As to whomever earned it. If I read the book, did all the problems, went to lecture, and took notes, essentially know my material and can apply it, I am guaranteed an A. The tests are extremely fair, so nothing ridiculous either. I am grateful that I am learning instead of worrying about grades all the time. For what it's worth, I am glad I go to research giant state school.

Maybe you should consider taking some upper division classes at a state school to boost your GPA? If it makes you feel any better, I will only have a 3.75 from a state school. I am sure a 3.54-3.6 from Yale might mean a lot more to the admission committees.

When I was making my decision, this is how my thoughts were: if I go to a mid-tier research giant like Wisconsin, Washington, Iowa, UCLA, UCSD or Minnesota, I might have a higher GPA than if I had gone to Swarthmore/Columbia. I would have more time on my hands, so I can accomplish more in terms of leadership, research, etc. I still go to a decent undergrad institution (the name will be recognized where ever I apply), and I don't have to constantly worry about competition and grades. And no debt. That's always nice.
Furthermore, if I publish more, I would have a better chance at getting into the residency that I wanted.

How did you guys make your decision?

 

[ranson]

I have a question for all you Ivy leaguers. Are you guys glad that you chose an Ivy or a top-notch research institution? I chose to go to mid-tier research giant because I was afraid of the competition/finances at Ivies, and I have accomplished so much and grown in a number of ways that I never imagined possible. I feel like if I had gone to Swarthmore or Columbia or Penn, I would not have been able to pursue the same range of activities.

For instance, I have 4-5 first-author publications coming-out in some pretty acclaimed journals by the time I apply. If I had gone to an Ivy league, I don't know if I would have had so much time outside of studying. I had so much more time to pursue leadership activities, and learn a lot more about myself at the mid-tier school that I chose.

In terms of the quality of education, I don't think there is so much of a difference. I think a lot of it just depends on how much you put forth in your studies, and how much you want to learn. If you push yourself to learn as much as you can, I don't think it makes a difference where you go to school for undergrad. There are Nobel laureates that went to state schools.

I have been thinking about medical school as well. Does it really matter if I go to Dartmouth or Yale or Harvard for medical school? Would I be just as good of a doctor if I went to Nebraska or Iowa (not saying these are bad schools, they are amazing in fact, but they don't have the same "prestige")? I think so. I think a lot of it just depends on how much of a difference you want to make in our world. If you are truly ambitious, you won't let the fact that Harvard students might have a little more resources than the mid-tier research giants. You will pull on these resources. In the end, you won't be taking your degrees to your grave. But, you will be taking how much impact you made in this world. For that, you don't need to be at an Ivy. All you need is intelligence, drive, and compassion.

I agree with nearly all of this. The curriculum at an Ivy league school and a top state school does not vary much. However, what makes the two different is the student body. You are surrounded by harder workers and possibly brighter students at the the Ivy league school. This environment pushes you to master the material and as a result you end up studying more. This is what, I believe, results in a different educational experience. But like you said, if you have the passion and drive, you can master the material (beyond what is taught in class) at any university.

 

[xBODOMx]

.

 

[EnergyDrink]

I thought I remember reading that MCAT scores were comparable between state schools and ivys, which would suggest grade inflation.

 

[iggs99988]

Does anyone here attend Columbia? I am very curious about the science department there and how hard the sciences courses are. I've read on other boards that the science majors are notorious for basically eating, breathing, and sleeping studying. I'm a transfer student who will begin class in 2 weeks..

 

[cuculici1]

Does anyone here attend Columbia? I am very curious about the science department there and how hard the sciences courses are. I've read on other boards that the science majors are notorious for basically eating, breathing, and sleeping studying. I'm a transfer student who will begin class in 2 weeks..

Hey iggs. I'm currently a science major/pre-med in Columbia College. The classes are hard, but not impossible if you put in a lot of time. I don't know what major you're specifically interested in, but since you're on this forum I'm assuming you're taking the premed prerequisites anyway.

The Intro Bio class here is notoriously hard, if you have to take it here you will see what I mean. In addition, there are a lot of post-baccs here which can drive up the competition in the premed classes. I personally wouldn't worry about any sort of "cutthroat" environment. As long as you focus on learning and understanding the material, and ask your professors, tutors, TA's, or classmates questions to fill gaps in your understanding you should do fine.

I couldn't tell you how the science courses here compare to other schools, because I've never taken college classes elsewhere. Check www.culpa.info for more information.

 

[iggs99988]

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I'm going to be taking most of my prerequisites at Columbia starting with Gen Chem I this semester. Incidentally, I have completed and transferred Intro to Bio from my old school but I guess I should consider retaking it or doing some heavy preparatory studying before Bio II (Bio at old school very basic & unchallenging). If you don't mind, amongst yourself and your friends, what do you perceive a viable GPA to be if one works really hard? I'm a 4.0 student but I'd be thrilled to manage a 3.7+ here.

 

[lobo.solo]

I go to a State school and I am of worry about this. I have a good gpa but it will suck if I am looked down upon just because I went to a state school. I wanted save money and also stay local to be able to keep my job that is the reason i am at a state school.

 

[cuculici1]

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I'm going to be taking most of my prerequisites at Columbia starting with Gen Chem I this semester. Incidentally, I have completed and transferred Intro to Bio from my old school but I guess I should consider retaking it or doing some heavy preparatory studying before Bio II (Bio at old school very basic & unchallenging). If you don't mind, amongst yourself and your friends, what do you perceive a viable GPA to be if one works really hard? I'm a 4.0 student but I'd be thrilled to manage a 3.7+ here.

I'd say that if you can get a 3.7 or higher you are doing very well. The average gpa in the college is probably a 3.3 and change, and I already put up the stats for the average MD matriculant from Columbia. Getting a 3.7 or higher would put you in the top group of students at Columbia, and will open a lot of doors if you can pull it off.

I'd say at Columbia if you are working very hard a 3.6 (Dean's List cutoff) is a viable GPA.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

1) Don't care

2) The class was curved to a B+/A- because it was a new professor and it was his first time teaching the course. Orgo 1 was curved to a B-.


Whenever people argue that grades are inflated, they are tacitly saying that people either didn't work to earn their grade or did not deserve that grade. The point of the averages was to demonstrate the difficulty of the material.

The chasm in intelligence of students at state schools versus Ivy schools is great. Averages mean nothing when the top 10% of students at an average state school would likely be in the bottom 10% of students at an Ivy.

To put it into perspective, at Yale about 70% of the students were valedictorian or salutatorian of their class. I was ranked 10 out of 495 in high school, which places me in the bottom 5% of the class in terms of class rank.

Can the same be said for state schools?

If the median grade given is a B+/A- then basically half the class walked out with at least an A-...which is essentially the definition of grade inflation lol.

An A/A- is supposed to be exceptional, and there's nothing exceptional about a grade given to 40-50% of the class.

 

[varsityblue]

I would think private schools would inflate their grades more than state schools. Wouldn't they want to keep students from dropping/failing out? They are businesses after all and want people to stay and pay tuition, unlike state schools which are funded mostly by the state and they could care less if you stayed or not.

I respectfully disagree with the notion that private schools inflate the grades of their students. In my view, the vast majority of students who make it into a place like Yale are whip smart, driven individuals who would excel in any school environment. College is challenging wherever you go and is probably moreso at top schools where your classmates were all at the top of their respective high school classes. That said, I attend a state school and can attest to the amount of personalized attention and opportunities I've received from professors in courses where there are more than 1000 students enrolled. Pick your poison.

 

[ranson]

If the median grade given is a B+/A- then basically half the class walked out with at least an A-...which is essentially the definition of grade inflation lol.

An A/A- is supposed to be exceptional, and there's nothing exceptional about a grade given to 40-50% of the class.

Yea, that's a very generous curve, especially considering that Orgo is a weed out class. But at Penn, both semesters of Orgo and all of the pre-req courses are curved to a B-/C+. Only about 20%-25% receive an A/A-, and that's pretty difficult to achieve considering you are competing with students who are hard workers and the top of their high school class.

 

[Whatyousay]

yeah but that was at a state school so we got like 70 points just for spelling our names right (Melissa or Mellisa? so confusing)

We also dun no maths.

Honestly, unless you're a high school / transfer student looking at school options, there's really no point in worrying about GPA differences between schools, because that's outside of your control. Take care of things that you can control (GPA, MCAT, ECs, PS, etc.). Unless you completed your pre-reqs at Everest College, I doubt your choice in undergrad will keep you out of medical school.

 

[varsityblue]

Honestly, unless you're a high school / transfer student looking at school options, there's really no point in worrying about GPA differences between schools, because that's outside of your control. Take care of things that you can control (GPA, MCAT, ECs, PS, etc.). Unless you completed your pre-reqs at Everest College, I doubt your choice in undergrad will keep you out of medical school.

Spoken like a prophet.

 

[liveoak]

if your undergrad is so much more "rigorous" it will show up in your MCAT score. Period.

 

[dbeast]

On this point, I vehemently have to disagree. Your top students may be on par to the average student at an Ivy, but the very top students here are absolute geniuses.

They recently announced the first election to Phi Beta Kappa (the top 13 students in our class) and my roommate from freshman year was included. He is a mathematics and biology double major with a 3.97 or so.

He is an absolute genius and I find it very, very, very difficult to believe that any state student would be on that level. Yes, this is me being pretentious or whatever, but I just don't believe that any student at an average state school is on that level.

 

[Narmerguy]

Well, as far as brains go, let's look at the smartest of the smartest. Let's look at the latest Nobel Prize winners in the two of the sciences.

Past 25 American Nobel Prize winners in Medicine attended these undergraduate colleges:

Antioch College
Brown University
UC Berkeley
University of Washington
Columbia University
Case Institute of Technology
MIT
Caltech
Harvard University
Hamilton College
Columbia University
University of North Carolina
DePauw University
University of Pennsylvania
University of Minnesota
University of Notre Dame
John Hopkins University
Yale University
Union College, Kentucky
University of Illinois
University of Texas
Holy Cross
Amherst College
Gettysburg College
Hunter College



Past 25 American Nobel Prize winners in Chemistry attended these undergraduate colleges:

City College of NY
City College of NY
Stanford University
University of Dayton, Ohio
Rollins College, Florida
MIT
Grinnell College
MIT
McGill University
Georgia Institute of Technology
Ohio Wesleyan University
Rice University
Hope College
Brigham Young University
University of Toronto
University of Nebraska
Dartmouth College
Harvard University
Berea College
Augsburg College
University of Massachusetts
Washington State University
University of Florida
University of California, Riverside
Harvard University


Seriously, Depauw? Hunter College? What are these guys doing slumming it up with the smartest of the smartest from Harvard and Caltech? To argue that the smartest from other schools couldn't beat the smartest from the Ivies' is a little silly. Harvard accepts 7% of their applicants. You think their admissions process is that flawless? How many perfect score valedictorians do they end up rejecting? These kids are going somewhere, and I don't consider Harvard's undergraduate admissions' department to be the final say in the intelligence of students.

Students aren't accepted to these schools just because they're smart. Sometimes they're accepted because they're unique, or inspiring, or a great leader, or resilient. There's tons of smart people all over the country, and the majority of them probably do not go to the Ivies.

 

[Lazybum2014]

Now I'm frightened.

My fairly unknown college is in the top #30 in Regionals Universities in the North and has come up twice in the news in the last year for fraud. Once for stolen money, and once for wrong data sent to US News.

Currently, I have a 3.7 cGPA and sGPA. My extra-curriculars are pretty strong, but obviously still working on them. But the fact that my college is not at all known and has such a terrible history affect me? Will my mediocre GPA at this unknown college hurt me?

 

[IMSingular]

....Seriously, Depauw? Hunter College?.

Hunter is know as "Jewish" Radcliff. In fact it produced to Women with Nobel. Harvard didn't allow women to the libarary at late hours at night up to about 1965. Caltech didn't have women until 1970s. Both, Hunter and DePaw, are listed in top 50. Among Liberal arts Hunter is quite high, and probably was top women's college. There was quite a bit of discremination against women before hippy culture arrived.

 

[hahahigh]

yeah but that was at a state school so we got like 70 points just for spelling our names right (Melissa or Mellisa? so confusing)

This is easily the best comment I've ever seen on this site.

 

[johnisles2011]

My buddy (blog writer) interviewed at a school where they very bluntly told students that they adjusted their GPAs based on where the went to undergrad according to some "grading difficulty" ranking they had. I"m sure this ranking heavily favors towards certain top private/ivy schools.
I also think it's kind of silly to say that going to a top school doesn't get you certain advantages. Go look at the list of colleges represented at these med schools, and notice that schools like Harvard or Princeton are almost always among the most heavily represented colleges (outside of state schools that feed in to other state schools).
Last, look at some top schools general med school acceptance rates at certain GPAs relative to the national averages. They're usually higher.
It's just how the world works, whether or not it's fair.

 

[synthmonsterjax]

(i go to a state school)

there's really no comparison i think. the top students at HYPSM and Caltech are frighteningly smart. i would bet that 99% of people who win medals in international math, chemistry, physics, biology, computing olympiads, place really high in siemens/intel/etc. or do really high level-stuff of that nature in high school are almost completely recruited by one of the schools i listed above (but sometimes places like duke give out full scholarships to such people). i'd guess a huge majority of these people are not pre-med.

if there was an upper-crust of students at state schools just as good as the upper-crust of HYPSMC, we'd see pretty consistent state school representation in things like the putnam competition. once in a while there are putnam fellows from outside these schools, but otherwise there's pretty much 0 competition from state schools. putnam is dominated by HYPSMC, with some lesser representation from schools like columbia, duke, chicago, harvey mudd, etc.

it might be the case that in softer subjects like political science, etc., some of the top students at state schools vs. top-tier schools could be thought of as similar caliber. i know of no way to corroborate that.

 

[MDPhDJourney]

I'm a student at HYP.

Grade inflation or not, medical schools do in fact take the rigor of one's undergraduate institution into consideration. The applicants at my school get about a 0.2 GPA bump. For instance, the average gpa for applicants who were admitted to Johns Hopkins Med was a 3.7; Emory was a 3.5.

I think it's deserved; afterall, the orgo course at my school is accelerated and covers all the material most schools spread out between orgo I and II. The second half of the course is more biochem stuff.

 

[Itsame]

Seems to me that as of day one of medical school, the name of the undergraduate university that you attended becomes little more than a fun fact you use when you introduce yourself to other students.

 

[fudGez14]

I'm a student at HYP. I have friends at Cal and UCLA that are just as smart as I am, so I agree that top state schools do have students of similar caliber.

The difference lies in the number of these students, though: I consider myself an average student at HYP, but since I got the Regents' Scholarship at Cal and UCLA, which only interviews the top 1% of applicants to each school (and I imagine other HYP students from California would too), I'd probably be much closer to the top of the class at those schools. One of my friends that attends UCLA says he studies less than he did in high school and still has near a 4.0 GPA, and even complains sometimes about not having enough competition. I bust my ass at HYP and have much less than that.

Most science classes at my school are curved to B or B+. That might seem high to most, but the fact of the matter is that competition at HYP is tougher. If an average student at HYP is a top student at Cal or UCLA, you can imagine the difficulty. I don't think anyone debates that state schools do have students of similar caliber, but there are not as many of them and that's the reason our grading is more forgiving.

exactly mirrors my situation and how i feel about the entire predicament as well.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I'm a student at HYP. I have friends at Cal and UCLA that are just as smart as I am, so I agree that top state schools do have students of similar caliber.

The difference lies in the number of these students, though: I consider myself an average student at HYP, but since I got the Regents' Scholarship at Cal and UCLA, which only interviews the top 1% of applicants to each school (and I imagine other HYP students from California would too), I'd probably be much closer to the top of the class at those schools. One of my friends that attends UCLA says he studies less than he did in high school and still has near a 4.0 GPA, and even complains sometimes about not having enough competition. I bust my ass at HYP and have much less than that.

Most science classes at my school are curved to B or B+. That might seem high to most, but the fact of the matter is that competition at HYP is tougher. If an average student at HYP is a top student at Cal or UCLA, you can imagine the difficulty. I don't think anyone debates that state schools do have students of similar caliber, but there are not as many of them and that's the reason our grading is more forgiving.

I think this view is pretty accurate.

 

[synthmonsterjax]

I am not sure why you would post this without fact checking it on wikipedia. University of Waterloo has more top 5 finishes than all but four of the elite universities,

The first time I took a community college math course, the instructor had been on a first place Putnam team when UC Davis won first place in the Putnam.

oh sorry, i was thinking mostly about u.s. state schools. top canadian schools are different. the last time a u.s. state school was top 5 was berkeley in 2002. waterloo is very consistently top 10, toronto also does well

 

[ialwayslose]

One thing that puzzles me is the fact that after looking through many MDapps profiles, ivy league students with not very impressive (like 35) MCAT scores tend to receive many more interviews than students from other schools with higher (39+/99 percentile) MCAT. Why is the 3.7 / 35 from Harvard usually more successful in applying than a 3.9/41 from a state school?

Do adcoms just want to admit thE people from ivies so they can list their entering class by institution and impress somebody who isn't looking at GPA? Tbh the amount of kids from HYP at ALL of my interviews gets kind of old- and I (very anecdotally) tend to find these kids more difficult to talk to. (generalization)

 

[fudGez14]

One thing that puzzles me is the fact that after looking through many MDapps profiles, ivy league students with not very impressive (like 35) MCAT scores tend to receive many more interviews than students from other schools with higher (39+/99 percentile) MCAT. Why is the 3.7 / 35 from Harvard usually more successful in applying than a 3.9/41 from a state school?

Do adcoms just want to admit thE people from ivies so they can list their entering class by institution and impress somebody who isn't looking at GPA? Tbh the amount of kids from HYP at ALL of my interviews gets kind of old- and I (very anecdotally) tend to find these kids more difficult to talk to. (generalization)

please refer to the previous 100 posts for answer.

edit: sorry for the douche post, but it had to be done.

 

[ialwayslose]

please refer to the previous 100 posts for answer.

edit: sorry for the douche post, but it had to be done.

Not really, as I had read through it and since I was asking about students who do not do well on the MCAT, such that the lower GPA gaining acceptance due to "rigor" cannot be explained. Im just curious as to whether admissions committees simply want to list matriculants from top schools to look better.

 

[Hotshy]

Not really, as I had read through it and since I was asking about students who do not do well on the MCAT, such that the lower GPA gaining acceptance due to "rigor" cannot be explained. Im just curious as to whether admissions committees simply want to list matriculants from top schools to look better.

They do want to list matriculates from top schools, no doubt about that. I interviewed at my state med's school, where I also go for undergrad. I was the only one there from the state school's undergrad. Most of the other interviewees were also IS, but they went to schools like Vanderbilt and Duke to name a few. But in general admissions committees want to diversify their class.

 

[QuiteAConundrum]

High school is a stepping school to college, college is a stepping stone to med school, etc.

Just because you went to an Ivy doesn't necessarily mean you're smarter, it could mean you just played the game right. A few kids from my high school went to Penn, Cornell, and Yale and had stellar stats and good EC's, community involvement, etc. They also shied away from taking as many APs and Honors as other students. Our valedictorian took 2 AP courses his entire h.s. career while our school offered 14.

Getting into college and getting into med school are games. Instead of focusing on who played the game right 4+ years ago, focus on making yourself the most attractive to med schools as you can now. Will it be easier for kids from Ivies with good stats to get into top med schools? Undoubtedly. Do top med schools accept students from state and small LACs every year? Of course.