GPR after working?

[DC_DMD]

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I wanted to get some insight on my current situation. I just graduated from dental school and was accepted into an AEGD program several months ago. The director spoke very highly of the program and unfortunately I didn't vet it as thoroughly as other places I applied to. Recently, I spoke with a few of the residents that will be finishing up and they were very disappointed. There was a lack of patients and they didn't feel like they gained much if anything from the program.

To me, it doesn't seem like a smart idea to be in a place where I'm not gaining anything while simultaneously not being paid as much as I could in private practice. However, part of the reason for me doing a post-grad program in the first place is because I don't feel confident enough to work in the real world just yet.

I just applied for my license which I'm assuming will take about 2-3 months to process. My thinking now is to try to get a part or full time job doing just basic procedures while reapplying to other GPRs for next year. My loans are not too bad and it isn't imperative for me to start making a significant income right away. On top of that I'm fairly young for a dental school graduate. Given the situation, what would some of you think is the best course of action? Any opinions would be very much appreciated.

 

[uhcoog92]

corporate+CE combo is the way to go

Could you give some more insight on this? I am a rising DS4 debating whether to apply for an AEGD program or go straight into corporate dentistry. Right now, I'm leaning towards the latter. My biggest concern is not having enough experience with molar endo, placing implants, and possibly IV sedation. How much of that can you really learn via CE or corporate?

 

[Screwtape]

corporate+CE combo is the way to go

Where are you in your training ?

 

[Screwtape]

predent here. u?

Well at least your honest. DDS here. For everyone reading the above I would take everything being said by @studentdent00 with a large grain of salt. I'm not saying s/he is right or wrong, s/he is just speaking of CE and clinical experience having never held a handpiece. And I don't mean this as a chastisement or anything. Just adding context to your comments. Best of luck getting into dental school!

 

[Screwtape]

just curious would you go to a cancer doc only if he had cancer himself? oh and thanks, only applying to DMD schools tho. so prob not gonna be a DDS like u. Not saying DDS is inferior or anything...

Quoted for posterity. Probably best to disregard mostly everything this user says.

 

[Advance]

Quoted for posterity. Probably best to disregard mostly everything this user says.

Are you planning on doing a GPR? If not what are your reasons behind not doing one?

 

[BellaNella]

@studentdent00 I don't think that @Screwtape was trying to insult you and your advice, just that people should take into account that you still have not gone through dental training when deciding to take your advice on their dental careers.

@DC_DMD and @uhcoog92, I think it really depends on what you want to get out of your AEGD program. My best friend chose to do an AEGD because she wanted experience in IV sedation, implant placement, and complex restorative cases. She spoke with upperclassmen who had gone to AEGD programs to get some feedback on their experiences which helped her ultimately make her decision on which program to attend. If what you want to ultimately do is outside of your scope of care (and you should be honest with yourself about what procedures you should and should not be performing straight out of dental school), I would consider an AEGD. Of course, not all AEGD programs are created equal which is why you have to do some research.

 

[DC_DMD]

@BellaNella My plan ultimately is to enter a relative's practice. He does a lot of implants and complex restorative. The issue is he does not want me to be learning from scratch on the job, he doesn't feel this looks good in a higher end practice. I realize that not many programs offer comprehensive training in implants however, at the very least I'd like to have a good grasp of molar endo and some moderately advanced prosth cases. From what I was told, this AEGD will not sufficiently provide either. This is why my thinking is learn the basics on the job elsewhere while getting paid around double what the residency would pay and then apply again to programs that I know for sure are providing what I'm looking for. Since I can't really find any cases where someone did this I'm concerned that programs would be reluctant to accept me.

 

[BellaNella]

@studentdent00 Yes, that is my logic. People should definitely take into account that I just graduated. 👍

@DC_DMD That is a dream job! I completely understand your relative's concern about not wanting you to learn from scratch on the job. Your plan is exactly what I would do in your shoes. I would not go to an AEGD program that could not provide sufficient training in the care I wanted to provide; I feel like that would only lead to regrets. Before actually dropping your program, why don't you call or e-mail some programs that you would be interested in applying to this cycle and getting their opinion on accepting someone a year out? During the application cycle, I would be completely honest about why you decided to drop a program and what you are looking for in an AEGD program.

 

[DC_DMD]

@BellaNella Thanks again for your response. I think that's what I will do. I already have a list of programs I would like to attend and maybe I can even see if they have some last minute openings. In the meantime, hopefully I can find something with a corporate practice.

 

[BellaNella]

Good luck with all of your future endeavors! It sounds like you have a really sweet gig with your relative. 🙂

 

[setdoc7]

Following your logic, people should take into account that you haven't done either GPR or AEGD since you JUST graduated and that your advice was dispensed without an actual post-grad experience.

I graduated 34 years ago, did two residencies, and am a PD. I also have a successful private practice for 31 years. I echo that predent advice is at best suspect. Walk the walk before you talk the talk.

 

[setdoc7]

So doc, do you have any concrete advice for the OP? It seems like your decades of experience in the field along with two, not one, residency experience and not to mention your lucrative private practice experience could definitely be useful in terms of dispensing some insights. It has got to be substantially more credible and of substance than a humble predent's advice of carefully choosing cases and knowing when to refer out while taking CE courses as a handsomely paid corporate employee instead of doing a GPR/AEGD taking calls/getting meagerly paid if private practice is the end goal.

Snarky will get you no where both in D school and residency. GPR's are not all meagerly paid, as you continue to expound on items you have little or no intel on other than what you are regurgitating from reading SDN. 62,000 plus a full benefit package including reimbursed CE is nothing to sneeze at, and loans do not have to be paid during training ( ok, interest still running). Corporate may or may not pay better, and the notion of taking CE during that year is predicated on taking meaningful courses that may be quite expensive and not fully reimbursed or at a distant location. The AEGD/GPR certificate will always be there, and may come in handy down the line when hospital/dschool/ appointment is required. Stop thinking you know more than a college student. You should be studying anyway.

 

[setdoc7]

Once again you have demonstrated how little you really know. I train new grads to enter private practice, and if they choose to go on to a corporate setting, that is fine. I accept a national class, representing many different D schools, so my opinion is not based on any one example. What you do not understand is that 4 years of D school has not empowered the majority of grads with the skills necessary to perform 21st century dentistry. A GPR provides an entire year to learn the skills necessary to do molar endo, implant restoration, treat sick patients, perform complex outpatient surgery, and have people around to help them when they are stuck (attendings). If you had any real knowledge of dentistry, you would understand that diagnosis and treatment planning are not always straightforward, and new grads with little experience get frustrated easily. The few procedures a student completes in dental school is not nearly enough training. Learn by doing in a private office? Be mentored by the "old guys"? This is not generally the "business model" of corporate, who rely on high production of reasonable quality work. Once the new grad has enough failures, termination is inevitable. Job hunting is not so easy. Residents are not expected to be perfect, and work under a union contract in many cases, so the job is usually solid for a year...barring major infractions.
1-3 day CE courses cannot provide the real patient experience that a residency does. They are meant for practicing dentists with chairside skills who wish to add procedures or modify treatment modalities. The corporate job will not pay for unlimited CE, nor allow the employee to be away from work for unlimited amounts of time. GPR's have a mandated didactic program which by CODA definition must provide education above and beyond that taught in dental school.
The same way there are not enough residency positions for every grad, there are not enough corporate jobs. Landing as an an associate is a small office some where may not provide any mentoring or business acumen.
Look at the bright side, you could switch gears now and go into law or something.

 

[Saddleshoes]

Another "GPR Old Guy" here.
I want to second everything setdoc7 said!

I also want to caution you about the corporate world. Those corporate guys eat young dentists for breakfast and make money OFF them doing it!

 

[bigstix808]

And other owner dentists don't?

not all. more are doing so more often, but good associate positions still exist.

 

[bigstix808]

sounds like you just regurgitated a weekend "pep talk" "go get em tiger" CE course. I'm not sure what your real life experience is in managing a dental business, but "if you build it they will come"?? give me a break! location absolutely matters! you don't need a corp job, AEGD, or GPR to learn speed and business skills. you don't need up-teen ppo's or medicaid either to make money. there is no magic bullet or secret sauce to this game. if there is ANYTHING i would agree with you on, its simply owning your own gig is the key to financial freedom.

wanna get ahead ... learn the soft skills. learn to talk to people. treat your patients, not their teeth, or your bank account. treat your staff/team/whatever with respect.

 

[DC_DMD]

Once again you have demonstrated how little you really know. I train new grads to enter private practice, and if they choose to go on to a corporate setting, that is fine. I accept a national class, representing many different D schools, so my opinion is not based on any one example. What you do not understand is that 4 years of D school has not empowered the majority of grads with the skills necessary to perform 21st century dentistry. A GPR provides an entire year to learn the skills necessary to do molar endo, implant restoration, treat sick patients, perform complex outpatient surgery, and have people around to help them when they are stuck (attendings). If you had any real knowledge of dentistry, you would understand that diagnosis and treatment planning are not always straightforward, and new grads with little experience get frustrated easily. The few procedures a student completes in dental school is not nearly enough training. Learn by doing in a private office? Be mentored by the "old guys"? This is not generally the "business model" of corporate, who rely on high production of reasonable quality work. Once the new grad has enough failures, termination is inevitable. Job hunting is not so easy. Residents are not expected to be perfect, and work under a union contract in many cases, so the job is usually solid for a year...barring major infractions.
1-3 day CE courses cannot provide the real patient experience that a residency does. They are meant for practicing dentists with chairside skills who wish to add procedures or modify treatment modalities. The corporate job will not pay for unlimited CE, nor allow the employee to be away from work for unlimited amounts of time. GPR's have a mandated didactic program which by CODA definition must provide education above and beyond that taught in dental school.
The same way there are not enough residency positions for every grad, there are not enough corporate jobs. Landing as an an associate is a small office some where may not provide any mentoring or business acumen.
Look at the bright side, you could switch gears now and go into law or something.

So setdoc, what would your response be to my original post? It sounds like you are in someway affiliated with a post-grad program. How would you feel accepting someone who either worked at corporate for a year or worst case scenario, ended up taking a good part of the year off? I ask because it is not guaranteed that I find a job quickly and could end up spending time doing nothing if I choose to leave my current program. I definitely agree that a good program is worth several years in private practice.

 

[setdoc7]

Acceptance into the GPR program I direct is on a case by case basis. A lot would depend on your PASS application and personal interview. Anything at this time would be conjecture.