Grad Program Info please.....

[G0dFather]

Hello everyone,

My fiance is a psychology major currently in her 3rd year of college. Her gpa is a 3.9ish and wants to take the GRE by mid-june. She is interested in getting into a clinical PhD. program. Honestly from my medical background, i don't know much about this admissions process or how competitive it is. Can someone please clarify the following:

1. How competitive is PhD vs PsyD program/ difference ?

2. Are extracurricular activities/research/internships a must for admissions? shadowing? How important are they in factoring applicants?

3. What is a respectable score on the GRE? and how difficult is/what must be done for that score to be attained?

4. Is there a directory that displays the states/schools where these graduate programs are offered?

5. Are specific classes looked upon during the admissions process i.e. certain psychology classes?

6. If she wants to hopefully start grad school fall of 2013, should she send out her application mid/end august (so her app will be looked upon early)? what is the earliest she can send it out ?

7. How viable is the profession? Will it provide a comfortable living/able to payback loans?

Thank you very much for your time and any feedback/ links to these points will be of profound help. Please excuse me if this stuff is always asked on here, again i am not familiar with your forum.

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[LHDMMD]

I suggest your fiance become a member and search these boards. A lot of your questions have been addressed on this forum many times so she will find the answers to your questions. Also, just doing a google search will give her a starting point for many of these topics as well as the APA website. I'm confused as to why your fiance is not asking these questions herself.

 

[shortgirl]

Also this book: the Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology is really good for compiling all of the information on each program.. but also just looking up the stats/info on each school's websites will also answer your questions.

 

[G0dFather]

Thank you for your help, she wants to do a masters at first but im really trying to push her to pursue a doctorate from the start as to not waste time.

 

[psyunknown]

Thank you for your help, she wants to do a masters at first but im really trying to push her to pursue a doctorate from the start as to not waste time.

Clinical psychology is pretty competitive and it is often very difficult to get into a good doctoral program right out of undergrad. She needs to have significant clinical and research experience in order to be consider, as well as high grades and high GRE. Depending on what she wants to do with the degree she may only need a Masters, esp if she just wants to work in a clinical population.

 

[psychanator]

Also this book: the Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology is really good for compiling all of the information on each program.. but also just looking up the stats/info on each school's websites will also answer your questions.

Second this. Great book, will give her a good first impression/perspective on the field, degree and available programs.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Thank you for your help, she wants to do a masters at first but im really trying to push her to pursue a doctorate from the start as to not waste time.

Definitely understandable, although as another poster mentioned, given the competitiveness of most clinical PhD programs, many people end up going the master's route first. At the very least, students coming in from undergrad will generally have 2+ years of relevant research experience and a few presentations to go along with that. This, of course, being in addition to decent GPAs (I think the average is usually around a 3.5) and GREs (~1200+ on the old scale, no clue what that converts to with the new scoring system).

Also, another component that plays a HUGE part in the applications process for this field that might not be as relevant in medical school is "fit." It's crucial that her research and clinical interests mesh well with her chosen mentor (in general, in PhD programs you'll work predominantly with one professor, and often times it will be this professor who accepts you into the program rather than the overall department itself).

 

[deleted176373]

Hello everyone,

My fiance is a psychology major currently in her 3rd year of college. Her gpa is a 3.9ish and wants to take the GRE by mid-june. She is interested in getting into a clinical PhD. program. Honestly from my medical background, i don't know much about this admissions process or how competitive it is. Can someone please clarify the following:

1. How competitive is PhD vs PsyD program/ difference ? LARGE DIFFERENCE, GENERALLY. PHD is more competitive by a stretch, it's also generally funded too.

2. Are extracurricular activities/research/internships a must for admissions? shadowing? How important are they in factoring applicants? RESEARCH IS A MUST FOR PHD PROGRAMS. VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE A GOOD CV, but extracurricular activities outside of psychology matter little.

3. What is a respectable score on the GRE? 1200 (old GRE), roughly 80th percentile. and how difficult is/what must be done for that score to be attained? That differs greatly, I studied for 6 months to get a 1300, my spouse walked in off the street and got a 1440.

4. Is there a directory that displays the states/schools where these graduate programs are offered? See above posts, get the insiders guide.

5. Are specific classes looked upon during the admissions process i.e. certain psychology classes? Writing and Research classes perhaps. Overall Psychology GPA as well.

6. If she wants to hopefully start grad school fall of 2013, should she send out her application mid/end august (so her app will be looked upon early)? what is the earliest she can send it out ? Mid Sept is a good target date, but don't expect that to matter all that much... Any time before mid November is good. You want to make sure everything gets there, not that any one will look at it early.

7. How viable is the profession? Will it provide a comfortable living/able to payback loans? That depends on a lot of factors. I make a comfortable living ($100k) and I don't have any loans. I am the exception to the rule. Typically expect beginning psychologists to make far less and owe far more. It becomes less viable then.

Thank you very much for your time and any feedback/ links to these points will be of profound help. Please excuse me if this stuff is always asked on here, again i am not familiar with your forum.

Hope that helps

 

[LHDMMD]

So jealous of people who can take any standardized test and get a great score especially when they don't study at all for it. I don't get it. I study for months and months and I'm always average.

Sorry I know that's off topic.

 

[wigflip]

Thank you for your help, she wants to do a masters at first but im really trying to push her to pursue a doctorate from the start as to not waste time.

I guess I'd suggest if she wants to do a masters first, you can help her best by supporting her in that decision. Doctoral study in any field is a long, hard slog, and as someone else suggested, a masters may be sufficient for her goals. It's not a waste of time to take the time to see if you are a good fit for a field and want to pursue it further. And I suspect that if she's genuinely serious about grad school in psych, she'll be on sdn seeking answers for herself soon enough...

 

[Pragma]

I guess I'd suggest if she wants to do a masters first, you can help her best by supporting her in that decision. Doctoral study in any field is a long, hard slog, and as someone else suggested, a masters may be sufficient for her goals. It's not a waste of time to take the time to see if you are a good fit for a field and want to pursue it further. And I suspect that if she's genuinely serious about grad school in psych, she'll be on sdn seeking answers for herself soon enough...

Yes if a Master's does fit with her goals, that is great. However, if it makes sense to go for a PhD program, she should. I know several people who went the Master's route en route to applying for a PhD program, and they ended up having to retake classes, do another thesis, etc...so while it is an excellent terminal route for many folks or a good way to explore if you are uncertain, it can also be a waste of time and money in the long run if it is clear that you want to go the PhD route.

 

[wigflip]

Yes if a Master's does fit with her goals, that is great. However, if it makes sense to go for a PhD program, she should. I know several people who went the Master's route en route to applying for a PhD program, and they ended up having to retake classes, do another thesis, etc...so while it is an excellent terminal route for many folks or a good way to explore if you are uncertain, it can also be a waste of time and money in the long run if it is clear that you want to go the PhD route.

Not at all trying to pick a fight here, Pragma, but I disagree. Maybe it makes sense in the abstract to do the doctorate right off the bat, but does it make sense to and for the fiance as an individual? The OP didn't say "my fiance is conflicted about two options and I'm trying to gather information to help her decide what's the best fit for her." The OP indicated that s/he (OP--sounds like a man, but may not be) is trying to push her, i.e. OP is here gathering info to back up a logical argument to use to persuade the fiance to do something--something that OP hasn't indicated she wants to do. According to OP, fiance "really wants to do a masters first." Why encourage the OP to attempt to persuade her to do something other than what she wants?

 

[Pragma]

Not at all trying to pick a fight here, Pragma, but I disagree. Maybe it makes sense in the abstract to do the doctorate right off the bat, but does it make sense to and for the fiance as an individual? The OP didn't say "my fiance is conflicted about two options and I'm trying to gather information to help her decide what's the best fit for her." The OP indicated that s/he (OP--sounds like a man, but may not be) is trying to push her, i.e. OP is here gathering info to back up a logical argument to use to persuade the fiance to do something--something that OP hasn't indicated she wants to do. According to OP, fiance "really wants to do a masters first." Why encourage the OP to attempt to persuade her to do something other than what she wants?

I guess I give people the benefit of the doubt and try not to make assumptions about their intentions. If the fiancee is researching programs, they can figure it out and make their own decision.

Doing a master's works for a lot of people, particularly if you are interested in just doing therapy or basic clinical work, hate research, or see other job prospects that would not require a doctorate. It isn't worth the time or stress to go any further if that is the case. It also makes sense if you want to attend school just part time and not commit to a graduate assistantship.

However, as someone who has graduated from a clinical Ph.D. program, who has many peers who did a master's first that regretted it as many things did not transfer, and who has observed the ridiculous amount of debt accumulated by folks committing to additional years of education (non-funded or funded-but-living-on-peanuts), I have an opinion. I believe that if you can be competitive to get into a PhD program and MIGHT want to go that route, you should at least apply. It makes a lot more financial sense and I have heard of people leaving after completing the Master's en route to the PhD because they decided they didn't want to continue.

Obviously people make their own decisions. I am not about to get into an argument where we make assumptions about the original poster's intent, the gender of said poster and their significant other, or really any other irrelevant or labored extrapolation that was made from what I said. Had nothing to do with intent and I just advise people to go for their PhD if they think they'll want a doctorate in the long run. No sense accumulating more debt or living in poverty longer than necessary.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Not at all trying to pick a fight here, Pragma, but I disagree. Maybe it makes sense in the abstract to do the doctorate right off the bat, but does it make sense to and for the fiance as an individual? The OP didn't say "my fiance is conflicted about two options and I'm trying to gather information to help her decide what's the best fit for her." The OP indicated that s/he (OP--sounds like a man, but may not be) is trying to push her, i.e. OP is here gathering info to back up a logical argument to use to persuade the fiance to do something--something that OP hasn't indicated she wants to do. According to OP, fiance "really wants to do a masters first." Why encourage the OP to attempt to persuade her to do something other than what she wants?

Just to add a bit more to this based only on my own personal experiences--no one I know of who entered my program regretted obtaining a masters first, despite all of them having to retake most/all of the classes they might have attempted to transfer over (although none, to my knowledge, were unable to transfer a thesis if they'd completed one). Many have said that the therapy training and experience they obtained, in particular, helped them in the doctoral program.

I can definitely see how someone could view it as a waste of time/money if the masters program provides shoddy training, though, or if the individual went in with the expectation that most of the credits would transfer.

Edit: Also, I agree that if the individual has an inkling of wanting to go the PhD route in the long run, and feels they're competitive "as is," they should definitely considering applying. If nothing else, throw in a few PhD apps with your MA/MS apps and see what happens. If you end up accepted into both, then sit down and decide what makes the most sense for you.

 

[wigflip]

I guess I give people the benefit of the doubt and try not to make assumptions about their intentions...Obviously people make their own decisions. I am not about to get into an argument where we make assumptions about the original poster's intent, the gender of said poster and their significant other, or really any other irrelevant or labored extrapolation that was made from what I said. Had nothing to do with intent and I just advise people to go for their PhD if they think they'll want a doctorate in the long run. No sense accumulating more debt or living in poverty longer than necessary.

Whoa, Pragma. I'm not making any assumptions about anyone's intentions, just reading the OP's posts for exactly what it says. The OP said fiance wants to do X, I'm trying to "push" her to do Y; I'm questioning the wisdom of folks here getting on board with abetting that project, not picking on you in particular or "extrapolating." If you'll note the very first person to respond also questioned why the fiance isn't posing these questions for herself.

Edit: Ah, okay, I looked back at the first post, and it DOES in fact look as though Fiance wants a clin psych PhD...eventually. Okay. Both posts rubbed me the wrong way, though. Amongst other things, I'm not sure why a seasoned sdn member (OP is member since 2008) wouldn't simply...research the existing threads him/herself. Given the original post, I'm kind of surprised that OP didn't get the "These topics have been discussed extensively--please use the search function" reply that so many others receive for similar posts. It's nice for people to be helpful and provide responses rather than shut someone's query down, but it's still kind of anomalous. I guess the truth is that I don't believe that "push" and "grad school" belong in the same sentence. It's a big step, and Fiance is probably pretty young if she's only a third year...(but how old is "The Godfather" if s/he's a "podiatry student"? And does the "Godfather" user name and avatar really do anything to mitigate an interpretation of "push" as synonymous with "coerce" rather than "encourage"?)

 

[Pragma]

Whoa, Pragma. I'm not making any assumptions about anyone's intentions, just reading the OP's posts for exactly what it says. The OP said fiance wants to do X, I'm trying to "push" her to do Y; I'm questioning the wisdom of folks here getting on board with abetting that project, not picking on you in particular or "extrapolating." If you'll note the very first person to respond also questioned why the fiance isn't posing these questions for herself.

Edit: Ah, okay, I looked back at the first post, and it DOES in fact look as though Fiance wants a clin psych PhD...eventually. Okay. Both posts rubbed me the wrong way, though. Amongst other things, I'm not sure why a seasoned sdn member (OP is member since 2008) wouldn't simply...research the existing threads him/herself. Given the original post, I'm kind of surprised that OP didn't get the "These topics have been discussed extensively--please use the search function" reply that so many others receive for similar posts. It's nice for people to be helpful and provide responses rather than shut someone's query down, but it's still kind of anomalous. I guess the truth is that I don't believe that "push" and "grad school" belong in the same sentence. It's a big step, and Fiance is probably pretty young if she's only a third year...(but how old is "The Godfather" if s/he's a "podiatry student"? And does the "Godfather" user name and avatar really do anything to mitigate an interpretation of "push" as synonymous with "coerce" rather than "encourage"?)

Who cares?

They asked a series of good and relevant questions for anyone who might want to have an intelligent discussion with their potential spouse about how graduate school relates to their financial future, their amount of time available to spend together, and decisions about other lifestyle issues in their future. Attending medical school or graduate school is increasingly expensive these days, and it is worth knowing what you are getting into as salaries go down and lifetimes of debt are becoming the norm.

So I don't see how trying to read into someone's avatar over the internet (or assuming that they are a coercive misogynist) is a fair thing to do given the purpose of a forum such as this one. Also, aside from the fact that this woman can do whatever she wants to do and get whatever information she wants from this forum, I don't think someone should be punished with these types of assumptions for seeking information. These are big decisions and this individual has the right to hear the opinions of people on this forum who want to offer them up. If I were about to marry someone who was considering embarking on several years of post-bachelor's training, I'd be an idiot if I wasn't at least curious about the cost, the job market, or their financial outlook.

 

[wigflip]

I am not about to get into an argument

 

[Pragma]

When people start practicing dimestore psychology on an internet forum, I guess I become more argumentative.