Grad School--- MA first, or straight to Ph.D/Psy.D

[Stellarbabe316]

I'm graduating in December with my BA in Psychology. My GPA in my major is just below a 4.0 (probably about a 3.9) My overall GPA is about a 3.2 (I'm not as strong in ALL my classes.) I don't feel my GPA is strong enough to get me into a good Ph.D program. I have been looking into getting my MA first, giving myself a chance to not only build up my GPA, but also better prepare myself for the Subject GRE. (Most of the MA programs around me only require the General GRE.)

My question is whether or not this is a good route to take. Also, I'm looking to get either my Ph.D or my Psy.D in clinical psych. (still contemplating which I really want.) If I do decide to get my MA first, what would be the best area to get my MA in if I cannot get into a clinical program? The one I actually see myself getting into is a counseling program. Will this help me at all? I'm so confused by all of this, and my advisor at school is of no help at all.

Thanks much.

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[irish80122]

I would say apply to MA programs which are funded (they are out there) but if that doesn't work I probably would do research for a few years instead of getting a masters. I agree with you that applying to PhD or Psy.D programs may not be the best thing right now just because it doesn't seem like you know where you want to go yet, which is alright, but you will want to know that before making such a huge commitment!

Anyway, that is just my $.02. Good luck!

 

[JockNerd]

I'm graduating in December with my BA in Psychology. My GPA in my major is just below a 4.0 (probably about a 3.9) My overall GPA is about a 3.2 (I'm not as strong in ALL my classes.) I don't feel my GPA is strong enough to get me into a good Ph.D program. I have been looking into getting my MA first, giving myself a chance to not only build up my GPA, but also better prepare myself for the Subject GRE. (Most of the MA programs around me only require the General GRE.)

My question is whether or not this is a good route to take. Also, I'm looking to get either my Ph.D or my Psy.D in clinical psych. (still contemplating which I really want.) If I do decide to get my MA first, what would be the best area to get my MA in if I cannot get into a clinical program? The one I actually see myself getting into is a counseling program. Will this help me at all? I'm so confused by all of this, and my advisor at school is of no help at all.

Thanks much.

There are a lot of factors to consider in terms of competitiveness other than GPA. Is that 3.9 and 3.2 on a 4.0 or 4.5 scale? How many of the lower marks are in psych classes? How many are in the last two academic years?
Are you entering your 4th year now?
Have you been doing some research at your school?
Do you have an area of psych that you're interested in pursuing?
What kind of career do you want to come out of your degree?
What kinds of things do you want to do in grad school--are you crazy about research or do you love the clinical side?

I know that's a litany of questions, but I think that info would help you to get some solid pointers!

 

[spyspy]

There are a lot of factors to consider in terms of competitiveness other than GPA. Is that 3.9 and 3.2 on a 4.0 or 4.5 scale? How many of the lower marks are in psych classes? How many are in the last two academic years?
Are you entering your 4th year now?
Have you been doing some research at your school?
Do you have an area of psych that you're interested in pursuing?
What kind of career do you want to come out of your degree?
What kinds of things do you want to do in grad school--are you crazy about research or do you love the clinical side?

I know that's a litany of questions, but I think that info would help you to get some solid pointers!

Agreed, there is a lot to consider here...especially since you don't know which degree you want. It's possible you could be competitive for some programs and not others, and without you knowing what you want, it's hard to weigh in.

If you do apply for doctoral programs, you might want to apply to strong masters programs, as well.

 

[Spector]

If you end up applying to master's programs take a look at U of Richmond, Wake Forest, and William and Mary. They all have excellent reputations and are well funded I believe.

 

[blindblonde]

If you end up applying to master's programs take a look at U of Richmond, Wake Forest, and William and Mary. They all have excellent reputations and are well funded I believe.

I just graduated with my BA and applied for clinical Ph.D programs straight away. Even though I had 3 interviews, I was rejected from all of my schools. Luckily, I did apply to the Master's program at Wake Forest, which I was able to get in off the wait list. Wake is well-funded (full tuition remission and a stipend for the academic year). Things worked out for now, even though I willhave to reapply. I felt that I did have decent credentials, but there are just so many good applicants out there that even the best among us may get shutdown from all schools. It happens. I would suggest to be careful how you apply and make sure you have back-up plans.

 

[Stellarbabe316]

There are a lot of factors to consider in terms of competitiveness other than GPA. Is that 3.9 and 3.2 on a 4.0 or 4.5 scale? How many of the lower marks are in psych classes? How many are in the last two academic years?
Are you entering your 4th year now?
Have you been doing some research at your school?
Do you have an area of psych that you're interested in pursuing?
What kind of career do you want to come out of your degree?
What kinds of things do you want to do in grad school--are you crazy about research or do you love the clinical side?

I know that's a litany of questions, but I think that info would help you to get some solid pointers!

Ok, I'm going to try to answer all of these:

The GPAs were both on a 4.0 scale. Thus far, my lowest mark in a psych class is an A-. My lowest mark in the last two years is a C+ in a general studies course. Everything other than that has been a B or above.

I'm actually in my fourth year. I'm graduating in December.

I'm actually going to be interning as a research assistant this summer through the school.

I'm interested in Clinical Psychology.

I want to 1. have my own practice. 2. work in a psychiatric hospital. 3. possibly teach at a college.

I'm all about the clinical side.

After giving it some careful thought, I've decided on the Psy.D.

Now, what I'm thinking of doing, is applying to Psy.D programs and MA programs. At least then, if I am lucky enough to get into a Psy.D program, that'll be great. If not, hopefully, I'll at least get into a MA program.

 

[JockNerd]

Hi Stellar,

Thanks for the reply to my questions. It really clears some things up.

I'm a bit confused about why you think your GPA isn't good enough to get into a PhD program. Your Psych marks sound spectacular. Your cumulative is not the highest gpa in the world, but it's certainly not low. Cumulative GPAs matter far less than the last 2 years of marks and your psych marks do, anyway (no prospective school will care if you got a C- in a first year mythology elective!).

So, you're considering a Psy.D, because of the interest in the clinical side of things. Are you totally averse to research? Many PhD programs will still take on students who plan to go into practice and not into academic positions. Most PhD programs have their grads going into independent practice anyway, so that's not really unusual. You would have to complete an MA dissertation and a PhD dissertation for research, but it is possible for that to be the extent of your research work, in some programs. The funding opportunities available to PhD students are also typically better than for PsyD students, if money is an issue.

You mentioned that you're RAing this summer. Do you have any research experience other than that? If not, I'd say that would be the primary hurdle in applying to a well-funded PhD of PsyD program.

If you do apply for a PsyD, I'd suggest you try for ones with strong funding (Baylor or Indiana U at Penn, for example). If you can pull off GRE marks similar to your GPA, you're in great shape, I think.

Good luck!

 

[amy203]

I'm going to post this with caveat that I'm not sure about how having a masters impacts admission into PsyD programs - I doubt it's that different than PhD programs.

Several studies have shown that a masters degree itself will not help you get into PhD programs. However, masters programs can offer opportunities that may make you a better applicant, such as more research experience, potential publications, more clinical experience, and better letters of recommendation. I suppose they also give you the opportunity to show you can do well in graduate level courses, but grades in masters programs are notoriously inflated.

On the other hand, you can get all of these same experiences as an RA, and you'll be paid for it. Plus, you don't have to make the 2-year commitment. Finally, you may be able to get a lot more personal attention from your advisor as an RA. Make sure you look into the student-faculty ratio at the masters programs you apply to, and remember that you may be competing with other masters students AND PhD students for attention.

I would say the main thing to watch out for is starting a masters program just because you feel weird about being out of school. If you are accepted by a program with decent funding and the experiences the program offers are better than what you think you could get as an RA, then go for it. But I would start by looking at the cheaper, short-term option. If you enjoy your RA position over the summer, see if you can turn it into a paid position.

 

[psychanon]

I'm going to post this with caveat that I'm not sure about how having a masters impacts admission into PsyD programs - I doubt it's that different than PhD programs.

Several studies have shown that a masters degree itself will not help you get into PhD programs. However, masters programs can offer opportunities that may make you a better applicant, such as more research experience, potential publications, more clinical experience, and better letters of recommendation. I suppose they also give you the opportunity to show you can do well in graduate level courses, but grades in masters programs are notoriously inflated.

On the other hand, you can get all of these same experiences as an RA, and you'll be paid for it. Plus, you don't have to make the 2-year commitment. Finally, you may be able to get a lot more personal attention from your advisor as an RA. Make sure you look into the student-faculty ratio at the masters programs you apply to, and remember that you may be competing with other masters students AND PhD students for attention.

I would say the main thing to watch out for is starting a masters program just because you feel weird about being out of school. If you are accepted by a program with decent funding and the experiences the program offers are better than what you think you could get as an RA, then go for it. But I would start by looking at the cheaper, short-term option. If you enjoy your RA position over the summer, see if you can turn it into a paid position.

Amy's advice is good. I did the RA thing and agree it's the best route. However, some of the issues with MA programs may not be a problem if you stick to certain types of programs. If you apply to programs that don't have Ph.D. programs, you will not be competing for faculty attention AND you will be more likely to be offered funding. The programs that people keep recommending (Wake, Richmond, Villanova, & William & Mary) all meet these criteria.

That said, if you want to go to a Psy.D. program, you may be better off getting different kinds of experience. I would check out the best PsyD programs like Rutgers (which you really should shoot for) and see what kinds of experience they look for.

 

[Stellarbabe316]

Here is where I currently stand:

My Overall GPA is a 3.21
My Psych GPA is a 3.70

I'm currently enrolled in a Drug and Alcohol Abuse counseling course that is only offered at my school during the summer. It consists of two parts, the first is given over Summer I and the second over Summer II. I'm taking both. In addition to this, I'm interning as a Research Assistant through my school in collaboration with one of the big hospitals in my area. My name is on the top of the list for the fall to intern as an Advanced Research Assistant for basically the same program. So, if all goes well, I will be interning as an RA for the next seven months with the same program.

I take my general GREs in July. I'm going to register and try to take my Psych GREs in November.

Can anyone tell me if this is enough to get into a Psy.D. program? (Or Ph.D. program that is geared more towards practice than research.)

As for extracurricular activities, I work full time. I honestly don't have the time for extracurricular activities. I am not in a sorority, my grades are too low for PsiChi, I tried for the Psychology club, but without success...outside of that, I really do not have a lot of time to stick around campus doing things outside of going to class and/or working on school work.