grade inflation

[econdr]

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so, I have noticed a pattern of people getting honors in 90% of their clerkships (self reported on SDN).

Do your schools have quotas for Honors/ High Pass / Pass? At my institution its 25%/25%/50% for core clerkships, so they arent giving Honors out like candy like some other schools. At the other medical school in town about 70% of their students get honors in core clerkships.

Which one is the norm?

 

[dozitgetchahi]

My institution does not have quotas, but rest assured that the 'honors' is still pretty difficult to achieve on most rotations. Certainly no more than 25% of people get honors on any given rotation, and in many cases it's probably more like 10%.

If a school is handing out honors to 70% of all people on core clerkships, that's crazy.

 

[Pinworm]

I posted this in another thread but my school limits Honors to top 5% and High pass to the next 10%. Anyone not in the top 15% cannot get above a pass. And to get honors you need at least an 85 on a shelf exam, in addition to doing well clinically.

 

[username456789]

so, I have noticed a pattern of people getting honors in 90% of their clerkships (self reported on SDN).

Do your schools have quotas for Honors/ High Pass / Pass? At my institution its 25%/25%/50% for core clerkships, so they arent giving Honors out like candy like some other schools.

Apparently they are. 25% gets Honors???

We have 5-10%, tops.

Although I agree, 70% (if even true) is beyond absurd. But even 25% is pretty damn generous.

 

[werd]

particular schools and particular rotations can have very different grade distributions. most dean's letters include the grades breakdown for each rotation at your school, so people looking at your residency app know exactly how "honorific" an honors grade is.

 

[FSU2013]

My school have no quotas - we basically have 4 criteria to get honors.

1 - Score >75% on the shelf
2 - Get clinical honors from faculty eval
3 - Get high marks from patient evals (yes, my school randomly polls your patients)
4 - Complete all required assignments for the rotation.

Theoretically, 100% of students could get honors or none could get it. I suspect ~ 10-20% get honors on any given rotation. We don't have HP.

Also, I think this is a reasonably fair way to do it - you shouldn't be able to get honors without performing reasonably well on the shelf (75 might be a little low), but you also have to impress your clinical faculty.

 

[KnuxNole]

Yeah thankfully no quotas. Having quotas is pretty bad, it involves lame competition and all that crap. That's what's good about P/F is that it takes out competition and focuses on learning and a laid back environment. Same with "if you are good to get along with and work hard, you get an honors". You don't have to be super smart or even close to a gunner to get Honors, just be likable and work hard and do well on the shelf.

Doesn't that suck though if 10% get honors? I hope people don't act like those people that "come in early and leave late", steal patients, and acts kiss-ass, cause normally there is no need for that, haha. Basically the "non-laid back" students....

 

[KnuxNole]

My institution does not have quotas, but rest assured that the 'honors' is still pretty difficult to achieve on most rotations. Certainly no more than 25% of people get honors on any given rotation, and in many cases it's probably more like 10%.

If a school is handing out honors to 70% of all people on core clerkships, that's crazy.

On two of my clerkships, everyone got honors in my group :O

 

[Guillemot]

Among other things at my school required to honor are limiting the time one spends not working. Eg. Eat a protein bar kept in white coat and dont go to lunch. Eg. dont use the bathroom more than once every 6 hours.

 

[mmmcdowe]

The average number of honors at my school is 2-3 out of the total 7 major clinical rotations. There is no particular quotas, I believe it has been closer to 3 than 2 in some classes. It is all "standardized" by submitting a summary of the performance of each class in a given rotation (% of each grade). However, 2-3/7 means about 30-40% of students get honors.

 

[mmmcdowe]

On two of my clerkships, everyone got honors in my group :O

It wasn't my group, but I was very shocked to find out that the group full of 5 ortho gunners, 2 neurosurg gunners, a derm gunner, a plastics gunner, and 6 gen surg gunners did the worst on their surgery rotation (only 1 out of all of them honored supposedly).

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

so, I have noticed a pattern of people getting honors in 90% of their clerkships (self reported on SDN).

Do your schools have quotas for Honors/ High Pass / Pass? At my institution its 25%/25%/50% for core clerkships, so they arent giving Honors out like candy like some other schools. At the other medical school in town about 70% of their students get honors in core clerkships.

Which one is the norm?

I think I found the problem.

 

[SLUser11]

On two of my clerkships, everyone got honors in my group :O

I think I found the problem.

SDN is notorious for its sample bias. There is an abundance of the top self-reported students in the country here.

That being said, there is definitely a big disparity of honors/high pass between different institutions. Some places award honors to the top 15% or something similar, and others have the "everybody gets a participation trophy/ribbon" approach. Some institutions that are considered "top 20" routinely hand out honors to more than half of their students...because, you know, they're all honor students otherwise they wouldn't have gotten in to such a prestigious med school.

Program directors are given a graph that breaks down the numbers a little, letting them know what percent of students got honors on each rotation for a given school. Hypothetically, they are looking at those graphs, but I'm unsure how much they really do.....those graphs can be a little scary, though, if the interviewee got a generic pass, and 80% of the class honored....

 

[MossPoh]

My school has a list of criteria for all rotations. Lots of generic stuff such as professionalism, turning in all assignments on time, etc. You are not eligible for honors if you score below 75th percentile, unless there are special circumstances with stellar evaluations. The bulk of the grade comes from attending evaluations. We must receive 10 out of 17 "excellent" ratings (which is supposed to be top 10% of all students they have ever been with) and no poor with only 1 or 2 satisfactory. These make grades pretty subjective, as everyone else experiences. That being said, I'd say 10-15% get honors on each particular rotation on average (we don't have high pass).

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Among other things at my school required to honor are limiting the time one spends not working. Eg. Eat a protein bar kept in white coat and dont go to lunch. Eg. dont use the bathroom more than once every 6 hours.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

so, I have noticed a pattern of people getting honors in 90% of their clerkships (self reported on SDN).

I've noticed a pattern of people getting 250 on their USMLE (self reported on SDN).

 

[st2205]

I've noticed a pattern of people getting 250 on their USMLE (self reported on SDN).

80% of people graduate in the top quartile of their class.

 

[2012mdc]

so, I have noticed a pattern of people getting honors in 90% of their clerkships (self reported on SDN).

Do your schools have quotas for Honors/ High Pass / Pass? At my institution its 25%/25%/50% for core clerkships, so they arent giving Honors out like candy like some other schools. At the other medical school in town about 70% of their students get honors in core clerkships.

Which one is the norm?

70%?! And I thought 25% was generous.

My school doesn't have quotas and the percentage depends on the rotation. I would estimate that 10-15% get honors on the harder rotations and 20-25% on the easier ones. Honoring out definitely happens but it isn't common at all. I was close and may have done it if I didn't look like 😎🙄 90% of my OB rotation

 

[MossPoh]

60% of the time, it works every time.

 

[Lolscan]

My institution gives honors out like candy to blonde, blue eyed white chicks. Then screws all the asians.

 

[winkleweizen]

so, I have noticed a pattern of people getting honors in 90% of their clerkships (self reported on SDN).

Do your schools have quotas for Honors/ High Pass / Pass? At my institution its 25%/25%/50% for core clerkships, so they arent giving Honors out like candy like some other schools. At the other medical school in town about 70% of their students get honors in core clerkships.

Which one is the norm?

30/50/20 ish...i think its reasonable? idk

 

[Pinworm]

when residencies get our dean's letter with all the clerkship grades...do they also get the criteria by which we were graded or at least how many students got each grade?

As I said before, my school limits honors to the top 5% in any given clerkship and 10% more get High pass. It would suck to have a full year of Pass scores when someone else gets all Honors at another school with the same grades.

 

[Skinceutical]

when residencies get our dean's letter with all the clerkship grades...do they also get the criteria by which we were graded or at least how many students got each grade?

As I said before, my school limits honors to the top 5% in any given clerkship and 10% more get High pass. It would suck to have a full year of Pass scores when someone else gets all Honors at another school with the same grades.

My dean's letter included a breakdown of the grading scale and what percentage of the class typically receives each grade.

 

[winkleweizen]

when residencies get our dean's letter with all the clerkship grades...do they also get the criteria by which we were graded or at least how many students got each grade?

As I said before, my school limits honors to the top 5% in any given clerkship and 10% more get High pass. It would suck to have a full year of Pass scores when someone else gets all Honors at another school with the same grades.[/QU

ours as well

 

[SLUser11]

when residencies get our dean's letter with all the clerkship grades...do they also get the criteria by which we were graded or at least how many students got each grade?

Please see my quote below from an earlier point in the thread. They get the breakdown, but they don't always pay close attention to it....

Program directors are given a graph that breaks down the numbers a little, letting them know what percent of students got honors on each rotation for a given school. Hypothetically, they are looking at those graphs, but I'm unsure how much they really do.....those graphs can be a little scary, though, if the interviewee got a generic pass, and 80% of the class honored....

 

[bonsaipalmtree]

At my school, one must receive exactly 100% in the clerkship to get honors. 99%= high pass. It's absurd.

 

[mmmcdowe]

At my school, one must receive exactly 100% in the clerkship to get honors. 99%= high pass. It's absurd.

WTF that is nuts.

 

[justdoit31]

Our grades are based solely on NBME- you can honor the clinical evals and OSCE part of a course but unless you honor (I believe top 10%) the NBME it doesn't matter- it's something we as students are fighting to get changed because people honor clerkships with a good score on NBME even when they are incompetant on the ward.

 

[2012mdc]

Our grades are based solely on NBME- you can honor the clinical evals and OSCE part of a course but unless you honor (I believe top 10%) the NBME it doesn't matter- it's something we as students are fighting to get changed because people honor clerkships with a good score on NBME even when they are incompetant on the ward.

We have some rotations like this and I like the system. It felt good to have some measure of control over our grades

 

[VenusinFurs]

Our school does numerical/ letter grades.

It's really awkward.