Grades after Graduation

[wasp973]

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Hello all,

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this post and a super thank you for replying. To give a little background I am a recent grad with a BS in Bio and, while that may seem more traditional, I wasn't actually a Bio major until my 3rd year of college. I was previously in poly sci and, after finding out the subject matter was boring to me, I made the switch from the lowest credit major on my campus to the highest. After making the switch, my interest became my major, my major became my minor and my life became hectic. I started by taking max credits, attempting to get involved in research (long wait lists with little demand for juniors/seniors new to the department), and struggling to have some EC's on the side. It seemed like I was doing everything possible to get into the sciences. I was able to do some literary research on novel leukemia treatments and presented 3 different projects at different conferences. This combined with my coursework opened me to not only medicine, but research in the industry as well. The biggest issue I ended up having upon graduation was my grades. I graduated with a cGPA of 3.2 and sGPA of 2.9.

What I'm trying to wrap my head around is the various ways that I can better those numbers as a graduate. Regardless of if I decide to go into MD/DO or into research with a MS or PhD, I feel my biggest speed bump will be my GPA.

My major did not require me to take microbio, anatomy, psych and socio so my current Plan A is to take at least microbio and anatomy (if not all 4) and knock them out of the park. Plan B would be to take some of the classes I didn't do so hot in the first time around. These would be Gen chem and O chem (C+'s all around) but I'm not too sure of the implications of this. I know the general consensus is to take upper div classes before retaking classes and that the AAMC averages the retaken class while the DO equivalent straight replaces the grade; I'm trying to determine the best route.

To summarize quickly, with a cGPA of 3.2 and sGPA of 2.9, I am trying to determine my path; research or medicine. My plan while I figure out which one is for me is to:

A) Take classes that I have not yet taken, preferably upper division classes. This will include microbio and anatomy, possibly psych and socio.
B) Retake classes that had previously kept me down. This would include Gen chem and O chem.​

My questions are:

- Does my plan appear sound?
- Any other suggestions regarding useful classes to take (I can reply with classes I've already taken if necessary)
- Can anyone offer modifications or bring to light something I overlooked?
​

Thanks again for reading. I hope it doesn't sound like I was complaining. I know I have a long path ahead, regardless of route. I just want to make sure that my time outside of school is being used wisely. Let me know if I can clarify anything!

 

[wholeheartedly]

Hello all,

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this post and a super thank you for replying. To give a little background I am a recent grad with a BS in Bio and, while that may seem more traditional, I wasn't actually a Bio major until my 3rd year of college. I was previously in poly sci and, after finding out the subject matter was boring to me, I made the switch from the lowest credit major on my campus to the highest. After making the switch, my interest became my major, my major became my minor and my life became hectic. I started by taking max credits, attempting to get involved in research (long wait lists with little demand for juniors/seniors new to the department), and struggling to have some EC's on the side. It seemed like I was doing everything possible to get into the sciences. I was able to do some literary research on novel leukemia treatments and presented 3 different projects at different conferences. This combined with my coursework opened me to not only medicine, but research in the industry as well. The biggest issue I ended up having upon graduation was my grades. I graduated with a cGPA of 3.2 and sGPA of 2.9.

What I'm trying to wrap my head around is the various ways that I can better those numbers as a graduate. Regardless of if I decide to go into MD/DO or into research with a MS or PhD, I feel my biggest speed bump will be my GPA.

My major did not require me to take microbio, anatomy, psych and socio so my current Plan A is to take at least microbio and anatomy (if not all 4) and knock them out of the park. Plan B would be to take some of the classes I didn't do so hot in the first time around. These would be Gen chem and O chem (C+'s all around) but I'm not too sure of the implications of this. I know the general consensus is to take upper div classes before retaking classes and that the AAMC averages the retaken class while the DO equivalent straight replaces the grade; I'm trying to determine the best route.

To summarize quickly, with a cGPA of 3.2 and sGPA of 2.9, I am trying to determine my path; research or medicine. My plan while I figure out which one is for me is to:

A) Take classes that I have not yet taken, preferably upper division classes. This will include microbio and anatomy, possibly psych and socio.
B) Retake classes that had previously kept me down. This would include Gen chem and O chem.​

My questions are:

- Does my plan appear sound?
- Any other suggestions regarding useful classes to take (I can reply with classes I've already taken if necessary)
- Can anyone offer modifications or bring to light something I overlooked?
​

Thanks again for reading. I hope it doesn't sound like I was complaining. I know I have a long path ahead, regardless of route. I just want to make sure that my time outside of school is being used wisely. Let me know if I can clarify anything!

How many credits do you have towards your cGPA and how many towards your sGPA?

 

[wasp973]

125 and 60 respectively

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

I assume you've taken Biochem? Super useful for MCAT prep, if you do end up applying MD/DO. Micro and A&P seem like reasonable options. And Psych and Socio, while not necessarily required for the MCAT (personally, I did fine just self-studying), will be of some help with the new exam. And hopefully, they'll be relatively easy GPA boosters. What about math classes? Intro Stats and/or Biostats are useful. I wouldn't necessarily recommend Calc unless you're great at it but there are a small number of MD programs that require it. Other random things that come to mind: genetics, immunology, any random interdisciplinary classes you can find like brain & behavior or something like that.

I think your plan sounds pretty solid. My only thought is that since you didn't do so hot the first time around, it's a good idea to be introspective and really identify why your grades suffered. It does sound like you had a lot on your plate with switching majors and taking max credits. But perhaps your study skills could use some improvement, too? It's definitely possible to make a comeback!

 

[tnedoots]

You should verify this (as with everything on here) but as far as the MD app goes (or went a few years ago when I applied) once you graduate with your first bachelor's whatever your GPA is upon graduation is set in stone. You can't "boost your GPA." I had about 250 semester units over about 12 years when I finally finished my bachelor's degree. All of those units counted toward my GPA. I had friends applying who graduated and were doing post baccs and their GPAs did not change regardless of their performance in the post bacc program. To be clear, I'm referring to the reported GPA in the fancy boxes on the AMCAS app. Obviously if you manually calculate a weighted GPA with all your units it will be different. But when they filter by GPA, the numbers in those fancy boxes are what count.

However, it is critical to perform well in any classes post grad, especially pre-reqs, because they want to know that you can handle the courses. It's also important to take as close to a full load (or greater if you can get A's) of science classes because they want to see that you can handle the volume of study/learning/memorization it takes.
The whole point of the pre-reqs is to see if you have the scholastic aptitude to pass med school. Make judicious use of secondary applications to point this out: you say: my GPA sucks, but I was really really awesome in my post bacc. So I can totally handle this med school **** (you may want to reword that a bit).

Basically, when it comes to the academic considerations of an application the main, if not only, thing they want to know is: Can you perform well in med school?
It's all the extracurricular stuff that is fuzzy and subjective to the reviewer.

Retaking classes, unless you got less than a flat C (this is a fuzzy cutoff and others will disagree) is probably pointless for MD. However, for DO I understand it can help. If I were in your shoes (which I was kind of close to when I was applying) instead of wasting time and money on retaking pre-reqs, I would take upper division science classes (I'd do advanced genetics or cell phys before I'd do pchem or other crazy physical science stuff. Basically take classes that will make med school easier). Again the point of looking at your academic performance is to see if you can hang in med school, if you can do well in UD classes that's a good sign as to your academic ability.

Anyhow, bottom line is that if you're weak spot is grades, then go show them you can take a couple of 18+ unit semesters of UD science and crush out straight A's. That's the only thing that will let them know you can hang. No responsible admissions committee will let you into med school if they think you can't handle the course work.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

You should verify this (as with everything on here) but as far as the MD app goes (or went a few years ago when I applied) once you graduate with your first bachelor's whatever your GPA is upon graduation is set in stone. You can't "boost your GPA." I had about 250 semester units over about 12 years when I finally finished my bachelor's degree. All of those units counted toward my GPA. I had friends applying who graduated and were doing post baccs and their GPAs did not change regardless of their performance in the post bacc program. To be clear, I'm referring to the reported GPA in the fancy boxes on the AMCAS app. Obviously if you manually calculate a weighted GPA with all your units it will be different. But when they filter by GPA, the numbers in those fancy boxes are what count.

You actually can boost your GPA by doing a postbacc whether it's a formal program or simply taking more classes after graduation. AMCAS reports your GPA for each year of college and your GPA from a postbacc but all of these GPAs together comprise your cumulative undergraduate GPA. So doing well in postbacc courses can increase your cumulative undergrad GPA. Graduate level coursework is reported separately, though.

 

[tnedoots]

You actually can boost your GPA by doing a postbacc whether it's a formal program or simply taking more classes after graduation. AMCAS reports your GPA for each year of college and your GPA from a postbacc but all of these GPAs together comprise your cumulative undergraduate GPA. So doing well in postbacc courses can increase your cumulative undergrad GPA. Graduate level coursework is reported separately, though.

Good call:
"Estimate your Cumulative GPA, using the formula in Step 5. Include undergraduate postbaccalaureate courses in your cumulative undergraduate GPA. Do not include graduate courses in your cumulative GPA—calculate these separately."
https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...140d8acb35af/amcas_grade_conversion_guide.pdf

either this changed or they lied to me.

 

[wasp973]

Hello again. Thanks for all the input. It's all been super helpful!

I've been working on applying to my local community colleges/state colleges and figuring out how I would take classes there being a student with a bachelor's degree who wouldn't be seeking a degree to certificate. As far as classes to take, it's clear that I should be taking UD classes I haven't taken before. I have taken the following electives already: one semester of stats, one semester of biochem, one semester of neurophys, a year of physio, a year of molecular genetics, and a year of calc in addition to the pre-req classes. I'm planning on taking microbio, immuno, anatomy, the second semester of biochem and possibly pharmacology. Any other suggestions that I'm overlooking and would count for BCPM/sGPA would be appreciated.

Good call:
"Estimate your Cumulative GPA, using the formula in Step 5. Include undergraduate postbaccalaureate courses in your cumulative undergraduate GPA. Do not include graduate courses in your cumulative GPA—calculate these separately."
https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...140d8acb35af/amcas_grade_conversion_guide.pdf

Thanks for bringing this to my attention! It was super helpful to review and it's nice to be able to run some predictive numbers. This actually brought up a secondary question I'd like to pose. Based on my charts, it looks like if I took 20 credit hours, it would bump my sGPA up to 3.1-3.2 and my cGPA up to 3.4. That's better than where I'm at currently but it begs the question if I might be better off doing an SMP. I have a few reasons for this thought. The first reason is from a time perspective. In order for me to see a decent jump in grades, I would have to take at least one year of class, probably more. This time line is fairly similar to the timeline of most SMP's and it seems like it might be a better use of that time considering that the SMP will award a degree and be more intense then just a post-bacc. The other reason I am considering this is because of the MCAT. I was studying for the MCAT summer of 2014 (long story as to why I opted not to take it) and I was consistently nailing down 30's and I'm confident that with some more time I could get that higher. It seems like I could use the MCAT scores to get into a SMP and go that route for academic improvement.

My question is if there is a benefit doing post-bacc at a state school or doing a SMP. On one hand, the post-bacc would be cheaper but the SMP would kind of circumnavigate the difficulty issue of doing classes outside my alma mater and, from a time perspective, I'd be spending around the same time school, just getting a master's out of the SMP.

Thanks again for all the ideas and resources!

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Hello all,

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this post and a super thank you for replying. To give a little background I am a recent grad with a BS in Bio and, while that may seem more traditional, I wasn't actually a Bio major until my 3rd year of college. I was previously in poly sci and, after finding out the subject matter was boring to me, I made the switch from the lowest credit major on my campus to the highest. After making the switch, my interest became my major, my major became my minor and my life became hectic. I started by taking max credits, attempting to get involved in research (long wait lists with little demand for juniors/seniors new to the department), and struggling to have some EC's on the side. It seemed like I was doing everything possible to get into the sciences. I was able to do some literary research on novel leukemia treatments and presented 3 different projects at different conferences. This combined with my coursework opened me to not only medicine, but research in the industry as well. The biggest issue I ended up having upon graduation was my grades. I graduated with a cGPA of 3.2 and sGPA of 2.9.

What I'm trying to wrap my head around is the various ways that I can better those numbers as a graduate. Regardless of if I decide to go into MD/DO or into research with a MS or PhD, I feel my biggest speed bump will be my GPA.

My major did not require me to take microbio, anatomy, psych and socio so my current Plan A is to take at least microbio and anatomy (if not all 4) and knock them out of the park. Plan B would be to take some of the classes I didn't do so hot in the first time around. These would be Gen chem and O chem (C+'s all around) but I'm not too sure of the implications of this. I know the general consensus is to take upper div classes before retaking classes and that the AAMC averages the retaken class while the DO equivalent straight replaces the grade; I'm trying to determine the best route.

To summarize quickly, with a cGPA of 3.2 and sGPA of 2.9, I am trying to determine my path; research or medicine. My plan while I figure out which one is for me is to:

A) Take classes that I have not yet taken, preferably upper division classes. This will include microbio and anatomy, possibly psych and socio.
B) Retake classes that had previously kept me down. This would include Gen chem and O chem.​

My questions are:

- Does my plan appear sound?
- Any other suggestions regarding useful classes to take (I can reply with classes I've already taken if necessary)
- Can anyone offer modifications or bring to light something I overlooked?
​

Thanks again for reading. I hope it doesn't sound like I was complaining. I know I have a long path ahead, regardless of route. I just want to make sure that my time outside of school is being used wisely. Let me know if I can clarify anything!

I would retake all classes you got anything a C or lower in. This can be done on your own without a formal program. I would not take Micro or Anatomy at this point. With DO schools, they do grade replacement, so that can get your GPA up pretty quick.