Grades vs. P/F

[peetie]

As a guy trying to decide between a few schools where the major difference in education is two are graded (H, HP, P, F or A, B, C, F) and two schools that are strictly P/F the first two years, what has been your experience with this? Does it really make a difference? Any insight you could share about the two grading schemes would be appreciated.

I am sure this question has been beat to death, but I couldn't find anything via the search tool.

Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[gregMD]

As a guy trying to decide between a few schools where the major difference in education is two are graded (H, HP, P, F or A, B, C, F) and two schools that are strictly P/F the first two years, what has been your experience with this? Does it really make a difference? Any insight you could share about the two grading schemes would be appreciated.

I am sure this question has been beat to death, but I couldn't find anything via the search tool.

Thanks!

makes no difference - you get a class rank either way, and thats all anybody (ie: residency programs) really cares about.

 

[skypilot]

I like P/F because it takes the heat off any individual exam. It seems to make students more cooperative as well.

 

[Prospero]

I've been told, several times, to go with P/F systems. One doctor I talked to said it was the biggest regret he had, because he chose a school with grades that was closer to home, but he could have gone to a school that had P/F.
Plus, I've been told anyway, that not all P/F schools actually have a class rank, per se.

 

[el_chavo]

Please do yourself a favor and go to the pass/fail. It makes a huge difference. If they do rank, don't worry about the first two years. Rankings only really matter in years 3/4. We have pass/fail with good cooperativity and all the exam averages are still very high meaning we don't slack off just because it's pass/fail and we don't have to worry about the difference between a 79 and 80 (or whatever)

 

[cdql]

Love the pass/fail system

At the end they count up all the passes and do the rankings that way. (Or at least my school does)

Makes for a much friendlier med class and a lot less competition.

 

[SoCuteMD]

Love the pass/fail system

At the end they count up all the passes and do the rankings that way. (Or at least my school does)

Makes for a much friendlier med class and a lot less competition.

Don't bother with H/HP/P/F - it might as well be ABCD, except even worse because for us it's curved very strictly and only a very small number get H/HP. So the rest of us are left to fight it out in the bottom quintiles for Dean's letter rankings.

 

[Ypo.]

I've been told, several times, to go with P/F systems. One doctor I talked to said it was the biggest regret he had, because he chose a school with grades that was closer to home, but he could have gone to a school that had P/F.
Plus, I've been told anyway, that not all P/F schools actually have a class rank, per se.

I don't think that my P/F school has ranking. We have several classes in years 1 and 2 that you can honor (path and pharm), but the rest are pass fail.

Personally, I like it because I can compete with myself and not worry about anything else.

 

[eralza]

Go with P/F!
I was competitive before getting here, but that first 70% (or lower) really puts things into perspective. Besides the P/F system makes classmates cooperative vs. cut throat.

 

[Brainsucker]

We're P/F the first year and H/P/F after that. I really think that it's vital to have in the first year, at least. I may be able to honor a couple classes next year, but there's no way I would have been able to honor anything in the beginning of this year. I needed to learn how to study (I thought I knew coming out of undergrad, but no). P/F will let you do that without a gun to your head. Still, I wouldn't have learned to study as well as I did without the threat of H/P/F looming over my head next year. I think that added pressure will help me do better on the boards, which are more significant for matching.

P/F --> H/P/F is a good compromise for me, but other systems will work better for others. I'm not sure I would perform well at Yale, for example (no grades). The amount of pressure you want on yourself might also vary by what you're interested in. I'm interested in academic neurosurgery, so I need to do as well as possible. If I were interested in family practice I might have a different perspective.

 

[Babs0309]

Don't bother with H/HP/P/F - it might as well be ABCD, except even worse because for us it's curved very strictly and only a very small number get H/HP. So the rest of us are left to fight it out in the bottom quintiles for Dean's letter rankings.

Which school do you go to? (If you don't mind me asking)

 

[George_Clooney]

P/F does sound much nicer, but I was wondering when it comes time to apply for residencies is the academic evaluation based solely on your board scores? And if the class is ranked, do they let you know where you stand in the mix?

 

[PhillyGuy]

If you are happy/content being an average (or even below average) med student and are planning on going to a noncompetitive field, then it's to your advantage to go to a school with P/F. This way the residency directors can't tell where you stand in relation to everybody else in your class. However, if you are going to work hard and want one of those super competitve residency programs, then it can definitely hurt you to be lumped with all the "average" med students who all pass.

 

[el_chavo]

If you are happy/content being an average (or even below average) med student and are planning on going to a noncompetitive field, then it's to your advantage to go to a school with P/F. This way the residency directors can't tell where you stand in relation to everybody else in your class. However, if you are going to work hard and want one of those super competitve residency programs, then it can definitely hurt you to be lumped with all the "average" med students who all pass.

If you're at a top 30 school with good board scores pass/fail makes no difference. Many schools are changing to pass/fail. It does not make you an average student and having pass/fail the first two years will not change your ability to land a residency.

 

[BKN]

If you're at a top 30 school with good board scores pass/fail makes no difference. Many schools are changing to pass/fail. It does not make you an average student and having pass/fail the first two years will not change your ability to land a residency.

Well it's good to hear it's not important. I wonder how many of you have actually tried to get in a residency or know how a program director decides who to interview and who to match when he has many times more apps than slots?

I actually don't care where you went to school. I do care how you did. If I don't have grades or class standing to look at, it's all up to your MLEs or COMLEXes.

For a moderately competitive specialty like mine it might make a difference between your first choice and your fifth.

If you're trying for a selective specialty it might make the difference between matching and not.

Now mind you, the places that really get on my nerves are the pure P/F schools. Most use a modified scale that might as well be A/B/C/F and provide probability distributions that allow me to guess where a student stands.

BKN
EM PD

 

[infiniti]

Well it's good to hear it's not important. I wonder how many of you have actually tried to get in a residency or know how a program director decides who to interview and who to match when he has many times more apps than slots?

I actually don't care where you went to school. I do care how you did. If I don't have grades or class standing to look at, it's all up to your MLEs or COMLEXes.

For a moderately competitive specialty like mine it might make a difference between your first choice and your fifth.

If you're trying for a selective specialty it might make the difference between matching and not.

Now mind you, the places that really get on my nerves are the pure P/F schools. Most use a modified scale that might as well be A/B/C/F and provide probability distributions that allow me to guess where a student stands.

BKN
EM PD

I just talked to a residency director in Chicago (after this post was created)and he told me exactly what you said. I was about to post it when I saw yours.

 

[el_chavo]

I was certainly talking way out of my expertise but I was reflecting what our ed pd just told us based on this last match and how they selected people for interviews. He said not to worry unless we tanked the boards.

 

[neutropenic]

If you know you will do well in medical school go to a more graded school. If you're not sure go to P/F. I go to a P/F school and someone who did really awful during basic sciences but decently in clinical years matched at Hopkins IM. If he went to a graded school he would have had an ugly record for years 1 and 2 instead of a solid pure "P" and may not have matched at Hopkins.

Anyway, most of the top schools are at P/F or moving there.

Being lumped in the vast gray milieu is better than being bottom of the barrel, especially if your school has the rep to back up your nebulousness.

Mind you, even the "bottom" students at schools like Stanford (which is a pure P/F, perhaps the purest of the P/F) and Yale can get great matches (ophtho, derm, etc. as well as competitive matches in uncompetitive specialties: i.e. IM at BWH, MGH, etc.) so I think where you go to school matters still and will have to respectfully disagree with BKN. A mediocre student from UPenn will have a better chance of landing IM at Man's Greatest Hospital than a top student from a Carib school (but perhaps the stellar Carib student will have a better chance at EM in El Paso than the mediocre Penn student).

Also ask what the school's avg step 1 is. Columbia's e.g. is around 230. Obviously a school with higher averages and a great reputation (like P&S) will have an easier time placing even its "bottom of the barrel" students than one with a lower average/lesser reputation (no names mentioned). But schools like UW which has a pretty national avg step 1 avg still has a great match list based on its reputation alone.

Also the P/F system improves cooperation, morale and atmosphere. This is the reason University of Virginia is the latest convert. Only time will tell when Emory finally gets there.

Current State of Pass/Fail

Pass/fail continues to be a prominent part of the educational landscape. In the most recent survey of medical school curricula, the Association of American Medical College (AAMC) reported that 38 of 125 (30%) medical schools utilize a pass/fail system in both preclinical years. It can only be assumed that an greater number of institutions use pass/fail in the first year only. More importantly, from 1996-2000 the number of schools using pass/fail in the first 2 years increased from 11 to 38. Of the US News & World Report's top 50 ranked medical schools, 26 use the pass/fail evaluation system in the first year, with 18 out of the 26 using pass/fail for both preclinical years.

http://www.amsa.org/meded/passfail.cfm

And from Vanderbilt's decision to go P/F:

“When we looked into our grading system, Vanderbilt was one of the only private top-tier schools still using letter grades,” Miller said. “This served as an incentive to reconsider our grading policies. We find a lot of our first-year students, in particular, struggle as they adjust to medical school, a new city, a new school and new friends. In courses like biochemistry and anatomy, many of our students have to learn a whole new language and vocabulary. We have students with diverse backgrounds, with undergraduate majors in areas ranging from Japanese to molecular biology, so the first year is not exactly a level playing field. This is a way of leveling the playing field.”

http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/reporter/index.html?ID=2734

And from the Uni of Saskatchewan:

The literature addressing the dissatisfaction of teachers and students with traditional grading systems goes back decades. It was recognized as early as the 70’s that a medical student’s performance in traditional evaluation systems was unrelated to that student’s subsequent performance in internship, what we now call PGY-1, or the first postgraduate year of training. Thus, traditional grades have been given more weight than they should carry in making promotion and recruitment decisions. By the 90’s, many North American medical schools had switched to some version of Pass/Fail, either in the pre-clinical years alone, or throughout the MD curriculum, and this has become the norm in Canadian medical schools.

There are many hypothetical advantages in a Pass/Fail approach to the evaluation of medical students. To quote the literature, this approach seeks “to establish a partnership of trust between educators and students in a joint educational effort to foster excellence through the creation of mature and sophisticated physician learners.” It shifts students from competition to collegial cooperation. It provides flexibility for self-directed learning and the use of different learning styles. It emphasizes the attainment of durable learning directed toward good patient care, rather than the attainment of short-term learning directed toward good grades through the unhealthy practice of “academic bulemia”. It eases student’s anxiety.

http://blogs.usask.ca/medical_education/archive/2006/03/passfail_gradin.html

UVa FAQ on P/F

Do many medical schools use pass/fail grading in the first two years?


Yes. In the latest data from the AAMC, 23 of the top 25 ranked medical schools reported on their grading system in the first year. Of these 23 highly rated medical schools, 11 use P/F (48%), 6 H/P/F (26%), 2 use H/HP/P/F (9%) and 4 use A/B/C/D/F (17%). The vast majority of these schools used the same grading system for both the 1st and 2nd years.

http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/med-curriculum/grades_frequently_asked_question_.cfm

Top 50 USN&WR medical schools grading systems:

Evaluation Systems Utilized by top 50 Medical Schools
as Ranked by US News & World Report

1 Harvard University Pass/Fail
2 Johns Hopkins University Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail
3 Washington University in St. Louis Pass/Fail
4 University of Pennsylvania Pass/Fail (first year only)
5 Duke University Honors/Pass/Fail
6 University of California, San Francisco Pass/Fail
7 Columbia University, College of Physicians and Surgeons Pass/Fail (first year only)
8 University of Michigan, Ann Arbor Pass/Fail
9 Yale University Pass/Fail
10 University of Washington Pass/Fail
11 Cornell University Pass/Fail
Stanford University Pass/Fail
13 Baylor College of Medicine Pass/Fail (first year only)
University of California, Los Angeles Pass/Fail
15 Mayo Medical School Pass/Fail (first year only)
16 Vanderbilt University Grades
17 University of Pittsburgh Honors/Pass/Fail
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center-Dallas Grades
19 University of Chicago Pass/Fail
20 Emory University Grades
University of California, San Diego Pass/Fail
22 Case Western Reserve University Pass/Fail
Mount Sinai School of Medicine Pass/Fail
Northwestern University Pass/Fail
University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Pass/Fail
26 New York University Pass/Fail
27 University of Virginia Grades
28 University of Alabama, Birmingham Grades
University of Rochester Pass/Fail
30 University of Iowa Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail
31 University of Colorado Health Sciences Center Pass/Fail
University of Wisconsin, Madison Grades
Yeshiva University Pass/Fail (first year only)
34 Dartmouth Medical School Honors/Pass/Fail
35 Oregon Health and Science University Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail
36 University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Pass/Fail
University of Southern California Narrative
38 University of Utah Honors/Pass/Fail
39 Boston University Honors/Pass/Fail
Brown University Honors/Pass/Fail
University of Maryland, Baltimore Honors/Pass/Fail
Wake Forest University Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail
43 Tufts University Honors/Pass/Fail
44 Ohio State University Pass/Fail
University of Cincinnati Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail
University of Florida Grades
47 Indiana University, Indianapolis Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail
48 Jefferson Medical College Grades
University of Massachusetts, Worcester Honors/Pass/Fail
50 University of Miami Pass/Fail

Please Note: 27 of the top 50 medical schools use pass/fail in at least the first year. Of the schools ranked 19-39, a total of 24 schools, 12 have pass/fail in the at least the first year.

http://www.amsa.org/meded/grading_system.doc

 

[Law2Doc]

If you know you will do well in medical school go to a more graded school. If you're not sure go to P/F. .

Actually, it probably doesn't really matter. Once they have your board scores and/or class rank, residency directors are going to decide from that whether your P meant a B or a C. (Not that basic sci grades matter much anyhow though).
The real negative with grades is it fosters more competition, and it probably makes you feel worse and more insecure when you get that C than you would when the same grade nets you a P -- ie the same grade some of the better students are getting. The positive is it might make some work harder since they see a more immediate difference in course grades as a result. Its a whole risk reward thing.
All this is somewhat illusory where the schools rank students, and so the P/F is somewhat irrelevant.

 

[thackl]

My class is on a grading system and the one behind me is on H/P/F. One of the problems the class behind me runs into is the P=MD thing and shooting for a 70% once honors is out of the question. You might think this would be an issue come board time, but then agian, the crap we're tested on that makes the difference between A-B-C is completely board irrellavent. They seem more laid back and happier.... If I could choose, I would be P/F only.

 

[USCTex]

If you are happy/content being an average (or even below average) med student and are planning on going to a noncompetitive field, then it's to your advantage to go to a school with P/F. This way the residency directors can't tell where you stand in relation to everybody else in your class. However, if you are going to work hard and want one of those super competitve residency programs, then it can definitely hurt you to be lumped with all the "average" med students who all pass.

The trouble with getting advice about this is, what residenicies programs may favor in an applicant actually varies somewhat. That being said I don't think anyone in good faith can say that, in any competitive specialty you may aspire to, your first and second year basic science grades are more important than your Step 1 or your clinical year grades.

Grade inflation, grade variation, differences amongst curriculum make these first and second year grades a poor tool to compare candidates from different schools. Considering Step 1 shows the same mastery of the knowledge, provides a level playing field for comparison of applicants, and shows you can handle a standardized test (always a good thing) you have to figure its weight over your grades.

Not to say the grades your first two years are not imiportant.

However, given a hypothetical choice between being perched atop my class at the end of the second year and scoring a 200 on the Step 1 or being middlin' of my class after the first two years and scoring a 245, I'd take the second. That above situation I'm sure is debatable and there are people who might diagree but it is only to illustate how small in the big picture of things your first and second year grades actually are. Therefor, not having them is nothing to worry about.

Basically what I'm saying is a PD or a faculty interviewer seeing all Ps on your transcript for your basic science years I can't see hurting you. I would defintley go to the Pass/Fail school if I was you. Removing that stress from your life will do wonders...at least it would for me.

 

[azzarah]

From what I've heard, it's better to go to a school with grades if you are thinking of going into a competitive residency at a competitive program. Otherwise, P/F is probably much less stressful. My school has H/HP/P/F & although I've been getting mostly passes, I don't think getting actual grades is all that bad.

 

[DRDARIA]

My school is P/F the first two years, H/P/F for third year required clerkships, and then P/F for 4th year, including away rotations (i.e. if you honor or high pass an away elective it becomes a P).

We don't rank. I'm graduating and don't have a class rank. My Dean's letter has no rank. It does have an adjective modifier based on number of 3rd year courses honored, but the number of people that can get each modifier is not pre-determined, but how many received each is reported.

I know BKN hates this-- but apparently most PDs either don't care or have no problem getting over it. I got interviews at every place I applied and matched into a top IM program. In my rather small class we have people going into all the most competitive specialities (including optho and derm), and to the most competitive programs in the other specialities. In fact, we have higher than average numbers going into the more competitive specialites (surgery and surgerical subspecialites, anaesthesia, etc. And a slew going into EM). And guess what-- my school is a mid to upper tier midwest state school, not Harvard or Hopkins!

The grading system doesn't effect what kind of student you are. You still have to work hard, and study hard to make sure you learn the material and do well on boards (my school does better than average on boards, which may be related to the success in matching).

Do you really want to be competing for four years with your classmates, going nuts for that one extra point, or working with your classmates and enjoying (as much as possible) the processs? Which way will help you learn?

Good luck whichever way you go. Personally, having now successfully matched I am SO GLAD my school is set up the way it is. I worked hard during medical school and did well, and didn't have to worry about how someone else was doing or how it would effect me. BTW, if that listing of how the top 50 schools grade is accurate (i.e. if some schools aren't saying P/F and then really using honors or those scores to somehow rank) then it is quite different from when I applied, and more schools are coming around to this more sane way of doing things.

 

[OddNath]

My advice is, if the school is A/B/C/D or H/HP/P, make sure it's not graded on a curve. I feel like that will make a pretty big difference in your quality of life. Like at UT-H, the grade cut-offs are set at the beginning of the semester, so we're not competing against each other. Also, I think that UT-H doesn't actually rank us #1-210 or whatever, just by quartile/percentile. Also something to consider.

But if only like 10% of the class can get an H, it's inherently alot more competitive.

 

[George_Clooney]

The trouble with getting advice about this is, what residenicies programs may favor in an applicant actually varies somewhat. That being said I don't think anyone in good faith can say that, in any competitive specialty you may aspire to, your first and second year basic science grades are more important than your Step 1 or your clinical year grades.

Grade inflation, grade variation, differences amongst curriculum make these first and second year grades a poor tool to compare candidates from different schools. Considering Step 1 shows the same mastery of the knowledge, provides a level playing field for comparison of applicants, and shows you can handle a standardized test (always a good thing) you have to figure its weight over your grades.

Not to say the grades your first two years are not imiportant.

However, given a hypothetical choice between being perched atop my class at the end of the second year and scoring a 200 on the Step 1 or being middlin' of my class after the first two years and scoring a 245, I'd take the second. That above situation I'm sure is debatable and there are people who might diagree but it is only to illustate how small in the big picture of things your first and second year grades actually are. Therefor, not having them is nothing to worry about.

Basically what I'm saying is a PD or a faculty interviewer seeing all Ps on your transcript for your basic science years I can't see hurting you. I would defintley go to the Pass/Fail school if I was you. Removing that stress from your life will do wonders...at least it would for me.

I agree with you, it would remove a lot of stress from the first two years, but puts a ton of stress on you for the boards, since that one day test is the only real indicator of your academic performance for two years of material. Plus, if you have been coasting the first two years since that is all that is required to pass, it seems like it would just add that much more work to your boards prep. I guess it just boils down to self-discipline if you are at a P/F school.

 

[Brainsucker]

Don't worry. If you're truly neurotic, you'll still want to do well, even though it doesn't matter. Why do you think people are so interested in getting into the highest ranked med schools, the best residencies? Hint: It's not just about becoming the best doctors they can be.

 

[werd]

pass/fail is the best, noone's competitive and our class is very united and easy-going. it minimizes stress too. they technically rank us for purposes of aoa but residencies/anyone else/even us don't know where exactly we are other than passing. i recommend pass/fail... med students are so uptight, you can't give us anything to quantify ourselves by or it just gets kind of ugly 🙂

 

[PhillyGuy]

pass/fail is the best, noone's competitive and our class is very united and easy-going. it minimizes stress too. they technically rank us for purposes of aoa but residencies/anyone else/even us don't know where exactly we are other than passing. i recommend pass/fail... med students are so uptight, you can't give us anything to quantify ourselves by or it just gets kind of ugly 🙂

I agree that it can be very stressful at a place with a traditional grading system, whether it's A/B/C/D/F or H/HP/P/F. It creates an unecessarily competitive environment. Therefore, I feel that P/F is a much better system for the marjority of people. However, if you truly are a superstar, it will take away any advantage that you may have.

 

[Clemson Doc]

I would do P/F if I had it to do all over again. My school's grading system is the most archaic I can think of. Instead of letter grades, we have quality points that get recorded on the transcript. You have to have a 95 or above to get a 4.0. Then your quality points drop 1/10 for every point, so 94 is a 3.9, 93 a 3.8, etc., all the way down to 75 (which is a 2.0). After that, quality points drop by 2/10, so 70 is passing (1.0).

I think this is ridiculuous. Sure, it is a true measure of how people perform, but I think it creates unnecessary competitiveness. And what's worse is that we are T-scored for the second year. I guess it works okay, because our Step 1 average is 225 and the match list is really good, but I still have concerns that I can't get the competitive IM specialty I want if I stay in the bottom half of my class for the first two years.

 

[Shades McCool]

My school (UASOM "UAB") probably uses the clearest grading system out of everyone's in the eyes of a residency director. A normative quartile system based on raw score.

P1: Top 25%
P2/3: Middle 50%
P4: Bottom 25%
F: Below 70

We get P grades for individual classes and we also have an overall P grade.

It doesn't get any clearer than that. It eliminates the need for a residency director to have to figure out how many A's or B's there were. He knows exactly where you stand.

Our dean told us that they the RDs really think that they should know who stays in the top 25% because they are pretty special while they also want to know who is in the bottom 25% because they might need board help during residency. He also said that you cant tell the difference between people in the middle 50%.

 

[PhillyGuy]

My school (UASOM "UAB") probably uses the clearest grading system out of everyone's in the eyes of a residency director. A normative quartile system based on raw score.

P1: Top 25%
P2/3: Middle 50%
P4: Bottom 25%
F: Below 70

We get P grades for individual classes and we also have an overall P grade.

It doesn't get any clearer than that. It eliminates the need for a residency director to have to figure out how many A's or B's there were. He knows exactly where you stand.

Our dean told us that they the RDs really think that they should know who stays in the top 25% because they are pretty special while they also want to know who is in the bottom 25% because they might need board help during residency. He also said that you cant tell the difference between people in the middle 50%.

How is this simple? Does P1,2,3,4 show up on your transcript? If it does, then it's really not that different from a traditional letter grade system.

 

[Shades McCool]

It is very different from a traditional letter grade system. You could have a class where 90% gets an A. In this system even if you got an "A" you could still be P4 which means your raw score fell into the bottom 25% of people who passed. That is not even close to being the same thing.

 

[PhillyGuy]

It is very different from a traditional letter grade system. You could have a class where 90% gets an A. In this system even if you got an "A" you could still be P4 which means your raw score fell into the bottom 25% of people who passed. That is not even close to being the same thing.

This system is even less friendly/more cut throat for the majority of the students. Let's say 90% of students get A, if you didn't get an A, then at least you are truly at the bottom of the class. But by putting people into quartiles, you are making the bulk of the class simply "average". Unless you are at a top tier school, this will hurt the middle 50% of the class. This is exactly the reason why some schools are switching to P/F.

 

[Shades McCool]

Residency directors say that there is no real difference between the people in the middle of the class. They want to know who the truly excellent people are - P1. They also want to know who the people that would be board risks would be P4. Everyone else is solid P2/P3. That is what this system accomplishes. The RD is going to figure out how you did in relation to the rest of your class whether you want him to or not. This just saves them the time of figuring it out.

The exceptions are the Harvards of the world that don't even keep grades at all. They feel like their name says enough. The rest of the schools may be P/F but they will still pass information to the RD on where you were in the class.

Added: What most students don't like seeing is the fact that they are "average". If you fell into the P2/P3 range you ARE average. You are average amongst a very intelligent group of students but you are still AVERAGE. It is an adjustment that a lot of students have a hard time making.

 

[jjmack]

I'd say go with P/F. It's very class dependent though. Here it's p/f first year and H/HP/P/F after that. The current M2 class is very competitive and was so even first year when it was all p/f. My class on the other hand is very laid back and likes to help each other. We have even had a lecture where they sorta told us to study more haha. I love P/F. In the end you still study to learn as much as you can. Hoever, it is impossible to learn it all.

 

[Sansfrontier]

Thank you all for sharing this info. Keep it coming as I am also trying to decide between grading systems.

 

[Aseptic Pimp]

I wish i went to a P/F school, my school has a ABCDF grading system and it sucks, everyone is competitive. It also sucks in that the difference between an A and a B is memorizing the minute details that won't be on the boards. Its very frustrating. 😡