Grading scales at different schools

[cosentik]

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Hi,

I am currently a first year student and plan on specializing (internal medicine, surgery, something), and I was wondering how GPA's work at different schools when it comes to being competitive for internships/residencies. Our school does not do +/-, so if I had an 89 average in all classes I get a 3.0, whereas someone at another school that does the +/- system but had a lower grades than me might get a 3.5 or above. How does this play into being competitive GPA-wise for specialties?

 

[KCgophervet]

Hi,

I am currently a first year student and plan on specializing (internal medicine, surgery, something), and I was wondering how GPA's work at different schools when it comes to being competitive for internships/residencies. Our school does not do +/-, so if I had an 89 average in all classes I get a 3.0, whereas someone at another school that does the +/- system but had a lower grades than me might get a 3.5 or above. How does this play into being competitive GPA-wise for specialties?

I know for some specialties they look more at class rank than GPA, possibly for this very reason.

Also, if another student did have lower grades than you at best they'd manage a 3.33 (the GPA for a B+) so it wouldn't be that different. The lack of +/- can just as easily work in your favor as you'd only need to raise your grade by 1% to pump your 3.0 to a 4.0. The student with +/-'s has to raise their grade from an 89 to a 94 to make that kind of GPA jump.

 

[cosentik]

I know for some specialties they look more at class rank than GPA, possibly for this very reason.

Also, if another student did have lower grades than you at best they'd manage a 3.33 (the GPA for a B+) so it wouldn't be that different. The lack of +/- can just as easily work in your favor as you'd only need to raise your grade by 1% to pump your 3.0 to a 4.0. The student with +/-'s has to raise their grade from an 89 to a 94 to make that kind of GPA jump.

That's a good point, I didn't think of it that way. Thanks!

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

GPA matters little in terms of residency applications.

Class rank is much, MUCH more important.

Sometimes they go hand in hand but not always.

That's generally how they evaluate people in order to take into account different grading schemes at different schools.

 

[LetItSnow]

Don't underestimate the schmooz factor.

 

[pp9]

Hi,

I am currently a first year student and plan on specializing (internal medicine, surgery, something), and I was wondering how GPA's work at different schools when it comes to being competitive for internships/residencies. Our school does not do +/-, so if I had an 89 average in all classes I get a 3.0, whereas someone at another school that does the +/- system but had a lower grades than me might get a 3.5 or above. How does this play into being competitive GPA-wise for specialties?

Illinois is like this, and combined with the fact that we only get 9 final grades for our entire vet school career, it would screw most of us out of consideration if we got more than 2-3 C's. Faculty recognize this and have already advised us to specifically discuss our (hopefully) competitive class rank in our match apps and talk about why that's more representative of our abilities.

Not having the +/- system does suck...a lot of my classmates and I are just starting to realize this. Luckily class rank really is a big factor.

 

[battie]

Not having the +/- system does suck...a lot of my classmates and I are just starting to realize this. Luckily class rank really is a big factor.

Not a fan of the +/- system. Prefer the straight system, honestly.

 

[pp9]

Not a fan of the +/- system. Prefer the straight system, honestly.

I don't like getting the same grade as someone who has scored a significantly lower amount of points than me during a quarter. But it really depends on where you're at on the scale. +/- can benefit or hurt you, just as the straight scale can. If I have an 89 and Bob has an 80, we both get a 3.0 and Bob benefits with the straight scale. With +/-, I'd get a 3.5 and Bob might get a 2.5/3.0 depending on the school. I benefit, Bob either doesn't or takes a hit.

Class rank resolves this issue for the most part, but now we're ranking people that might be just a few percentage points or less away from each other. In that regard, class rank doesn't always seem so significant.

 

[battie]

With +/-, I'd get a 3.5 and Bob might get a 2.5/3.0 depending on the school.

That's my main problem with it. A B should be worth the 3.0, even with an 81%. So instead of a B- being worth a 2.66 (which is what it was at the only school I have experience with), I feel the B- should be a 3.0 at the lowest.

 

[pp9]

That's my main problem with it. A B should be worth the 3.0, even with an 81%. So instead of a B- being worth a 2.66 (which is what it was at the only school I have experience with), I feel the B- should be a 3.0 at the lowest.

Then we're definitely talking different grading scales altogether. An 81 at my undergrad got you a C/2.5.

Depending on how the school arranges it though, that 81 could still get a 3.0 while my 89 gets a 3.5. Right now, we're at 70's = 2.0, 80's=3.0, 90's=4.0. So if they just added in 75-80 = 2.5 and so on, you'd get that extra separation of grades. But then you get into GPA inflation and people also have issues with that. No one wants to implement a national grading scale, so I suppose that's why we use class rank. It's less subjective.

 

[flameshock]

Virginia-Maryland is overhauling their curriculum for the 2020 class and one of the things being discussed is moving entirely to a Pass/Fail grading system with class rank included. I believe they're hoping it will reduce some of the grades-based stress.

 

[battie]

Then we're definitely talking different grading scales altogether. An 81 at my undergrad got you a C/2.5.

Depending on how the school arranges it though, that 81 could still get a 3.0 while my 89 gets a 3.5. Right now, we're at 70's = 2.0, 80's=3.0, 90's=4.0. So if they just added in 75-80 = 2.5 and so on, you'd get that extra separation of grades. But then you get into GPA inflation and people also have issues with that. No one wants to implement a national grading scale, so I suppose that's why we use class rank. It's less subjective.

Oh that's weird. Our grades are 59.9% and less is F (0.0), 60-69.9% is D (1.0), 70-79.9% is C (2.0), 80%-89.9% is B (3.0), and 90-100% is A (4.0). Where I took my gap year, they had the +/- scale that I did not like.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Virginia-Maryland is overhauling their curriculum for the 2020 class and one of the things being discussed is moving entirely to a Pass/Fail grading system with class rank included. I believe they're hoping it will reduce some of the grades-based stress.

Also including a more intensive and measurable version of clinical competency scoring, with better benchmarks. I think it will be a great improvement.

The school is going through some big changes compared to what it was when I graduated in 2010, and I really like where things are going.

 

[pp9]

I know for some specialties they look more at class rank than GPA, possibly for this very reason.

Also, if another student did have lower grades than you at best they'd manage a 3.33 (the GPA for a B+) so it wouldn't be that different. The lack of +/- can just as easily work in your favor as you'd only need to raise your grade by 1% to pump your 3.0 to a 4.0. The student with +/-'s has to raise their grade from an 89 to a 94 to make that kind of GPA jump.

Just quoting this as an example: In my undergrad, depending on the department, a 90/92 was a 4.0. I don't think I ever had a class where a 94 got you a 4.0. A 90 at UIUC is a 4.0 as well, at least for the vet school. It's actually like an 89.45 and above or something like that.

Also including a more intensive and measurable version of clinical competency scoring, with better benchmarks. I think it will be a great improvement.

The school is going through some big changes compared to what it was when I graduated in 2010, and I really like where things are going.

Yeah a lot of schools are making big changes! That sounds like some good improvement on their part. Illinois is changing every year it seems. We've already been taking 'surveys' that indicate there is discussion regarding big changes for 2020 already.

 

[flameshock]

Also including a more intensive and measurable version of clinical competency scoring, with better benchmarks. I think it will be a great improvement.

The school is going through some big changes compared to what it was when I graduated in 2010, and I really like where things are going.

I was done there for the accepted students day and while there isn't a lot of concrete information available, what I heard sounded very encouraging. Lowering the amount of 'needless' memorization, cutting material unimportant for clinical practice, decreasing the frequency of assessments, placing more emphasis on student wellbeing through decreased classroom hours...it all sounds like a step in the right direction.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I was done there for the accepted students day and while there isn't a lot of concrete information available, what I heard sounded very encouraging. Lowering the amount of 'needless' memorization, cutting material unimportant for clinical practice, decreasing the frequency of assessments, placing more emphasis on student wellbeing through decreased classroom hours...it all sounds like a step in the right direction.

Did you come to necropsy rounds? The rowdy ones in the corner were myself and the residents. 😛

 

[flameshock]

Oh! Yes, I did. I was kind of wedged behind a pillar, being pushed forward by the pre-vets. 😛

 

[Coquette22]

I actually have never really understood the whole letter based thing. We had it at one of my undergrad schools and I never saw the point. Like, okay, you gave me a number score based out of 100 and then converted it into an arbitrary letter for.... what purpose? Even within departments the scale changed. AVC just gave percentages for the first 3 years and then basically pass/fail for rotations.

 

[pp9]

I actually have never really understood the whole letter based thing. We had it at one of my undergrad schools and I never saw the point. Like, okay, you gave me a number score based out of 100 and then converted it into an arbitrary letter for.... what purpose? Even within departments the scale changed. AVC just gave percentages for the first 3 years and then basically pass/fail for rotations.

My orgo lab TA was from the Caribbean, and he didn't get the letter system either. The scale also changed based on department as well. Really and truly, a % as a final grade is giving someone the most transparent look at your performance without having to meddle with class rank.

 

[K9Mechanic]

I was done there for the accepted students day and while there isn't a lot of concrete information available, what I heard sounded very encouraging. Lowering the amount of 'needless' memorization, cutting material unimportant for clinical practice, decreasing the frequency of assessments, placing more emphasis on student wellbeing through decreased classroom hours...it all sounds like a step in the right direction.

LOL oh man, I done goofed.