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Is there a thread regarding the grading systems used at the different schools? Thanks.
Grading systems
- Thread starter Jacobim
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honestly....what's the difference between honors/pass/fail and A-F?
~10-20% will get the good grade...most will get a middle grade...a few will fail. I think that's the story everywhere. Don't let schools woo you with a pass/fail system...they all rank you in some way, and they're all full of people who study hard.
~10-20% will get the good grade...most will get a middle grade...a few will fail. I think that's the story everywhere. Don't let schools woo you with a pass/fail system...they all rank you in some way, and they're all full of people who study hard.
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We are on a "Graded System"
Honors
High Pass
Pass
Fail
but it doesn't really matter because everyone studies as hard as they can. At least for me it isn't about "I want honors in x class, and only pass this class". I basically study as much as humanly possible, and if I get honors so be it, but my primary goal is just trying to pass. The grading system really is secondary.
Nothing really changes with a grading system, everyone is motivated and wants to do well, so we all study hard. Not to get a P or H or HP, but because we enjoy what we are doing.
Again, this is just at my school (Cincinnati) and my opinion.
BTW, Cincinnati is about as non-competitve as you can get. Notes, books, graphs, and charts that all the classmates make are there for the asking, and a lot are emailed out when something helpful is found. The grading system is based on the Top 10% of the class for H, Next 5% for HP, (OR 90% of the points, 85% for HP, etc) so you can have the entire class get honors (although passing is still hard to get). There really is no reason to compete other than you if are a bizatch.
Honors
High Pass
Pass
Fail
but it doesn't really matter because everyone studies as hard as they can. At least for me it isn't about "I want honors in x class, and only pass this class". I basically study as much as humanly possible, and if I get honors so be it, but my primary goal is just trying to pass. The grading system really is secondary.
Nothing really changes with a grading system, everyone is motivated and wants to do well, so we all study hard. Not to get a P or H or HP, but because we enjoy what we are doing.
Again, this is just at my school (Cincinnati) and my opinion.
BTW, Cincinnati is about as non-competitve as you can get. Notes, books, graphs, and charts that all the classmates make are there for the asking, and a lot are emailed out when something helpful is found. The grading system is based on the Top 10% of the class for H, Next 5% for HP, (OR 90% of the points, 85% for HP, etc) so you can have the entire class get honors (although passing is still hard to get). There really is no reason to compete other than you if are a bizatch.
There are at least two true pass/fail schools that I know of...Stanford (just pass/fail, no rankings, and no AOA) and Yale (don't know the exact details). As far as the rest, I'd agree that honors/high pass/pass/low pass/fail is exactly the same as A-F. But I would argue that honors/pass/fail is different enough from A-F to warrant further consideration. In the system I'm most familar with, honors means your score was 2 standard deviations above the mean so something like 2% (epidemiology whizzes help me out here) get honors, the vast majority "pass", and everyone who falls outside of one standard deviation below the mean fails (unless the mean is ridiculously high and the SD is small). Studying to pass is alot less stressful than studying for a grade. Psychologically, while the pass may fall in the same region of the curve as a D it sounds better when your friends ask. If youre the type of person that can't stand getting the same grade as someone that stumbles into the exam with a hangover pass/fail is probably not for you. I would also agree that most places do use some means to rank you in relation to your peers when it comes time to write Dean's Letters in 4th year. So aside from being less stressful on the surface, DlueDevil is probably right.
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We're on the grade system as well. I suppose you can relate the ABCF as H/HP/P/F. Although ppl at our school generally look at it as A=honors, B+=high pass, B=pass, B-=kinda pass, C=low pass. And our As are straight up 90-100, Bs are 80-90, etc. So...in MANY classes half the class have gotten As (damn them 🙂 ) So in schools were they give honors to the top 10 percent...basically I would never have a shot of honoring in anything. I guess in this system..you can squeek by with As with some luck.
But I think the big deal for ppl is that we've been graded all our lives...and most ppl have gotten many As in undergrad (some never seeing a B...good lord! what is this strange letter?) So I guess they ahve to get outta the mindset that a B is A-ok. I suppose with the other system ppl can feel a lot better that most of their fellow classmates are getting Passes. I dunno...I think grade system does make me work a ton more (or is it the school? or is it just me? who knows.) Personally, I would love to be in a system with no AOA since that's what drives the competitive behavior in most ppl. But then again..without AOA how would ppl verify that they're smarter than us peons? hehe
But I think the big deal for ppl is that we've been graded all our lives...and most ppl have gotten many As in undergrad (some never seeing a B...good lord! what is this strange letter?) So I guess they ahve to get outta the mindset that a B is A-ok. I suppose with the other system ppl can feel a lot better that most of their fellow classmates are getting Passes. I dunno...I think grade system does make me work a ton more (or is it the school? or is it just me? who knows.) Personally, I would love to be in a system with no AOA since that's what drives the competitive behavior in most ppl. But then again..without AOA how would ppl verify that they're smarter than us peons? hehe
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UCSF
Years 1 and 2: Strictly Pass/Fail. No rankings on your transcript, no rankings contributed to your Dean's letter when residency comes around. Schools with lots of small groups and problem based learning are most often P/F b/c these curricula require cooperation amongst students and even create a level of co-dependence. I really like that.
USMLE Step 1: A good way to distinguish everyone on a national level.
Year 3 and 4: Honors/Pass/Fail: You are on the wards trying to learn medicine as best you can. If your people skills are well-developed and your understanding of clinical medicine is keen..you will most likely be rewarded with Honors. On the wards you are competing against yourself (Yes, I know you are doing this as well the first two years but in a classroom a strictly p/f system does wonders for group effort). This is what helps to determine AOA.
It is well known that grades during your first two years have little impact on residency. Third year grades and USMLE step 1 scores are the two main determinants regarding how competitive your residency application will be.
The fact is that you should be studying hard to learn the tools that it takes to practice good clinical medicine. The premedical mindset tends to approach everything for a grade. This is a behavior that should be extinguished or transformed once in medical school. To decrease the probability of approaching courses to get good grades, P/F helps to take the edge off...but it doesn't translate into students who are lethargic and half-hearted. My classmates work hard, but also work together. I love it. Yes we have a few gunners, but they are passionate, dedicated, and most importantly..generous with their findings.
Yes, there are some students who are very determined to do their best and hopefully make AOA, but there are even more students who dont' really concern themselves with that, while at the same time they feel very confident that they will come out of UCSF landing a great residency.
Years 1 and 2: Strictly Pass/Fail. No rankings on your transcript, no rankings contributed to your Dean's letter when residency comes around. Schools with lots of small groups and problem based learning are most often P/F b/c these curricula require cooperation amongst students and even create a level of co-dependence. I really like that.
USMLE Step 1: A good way to distinguish everyone on a national level.
Year 3 and 4: Honors/Pass/Fail: You are on the wards trying to learn medicine as best you can. If your people skills are well-developed and your understanding of clinical medicine is keen..you will most likely be rewarded with Honors. On the wards you are competing against yourself (Yes, I know you are doing this as well the first two years but in a classroom a strictly p/f system does wonders for group effort). This is what helps to determine AOA.
It is well known that grades during your first two years have little impact on residency. Third year grades and USMLE step 1 scores are the two main determinants regarding how competitive your residency application will be.
The fact is that you should be studying hard to learn the tools that it takes to practice good clinical medicine. The premedical mindset tends to approach everything for a grade. This is a behavior that should be extinguished or transformed once in medical school. To decrease the probability of approaching courses to get good grades, P/F helps to take the edge off...but it doesn't translate into students who are lethargic and half-hearted. My classmates work hard, but also work together. I love it. Yes we have a few gunners, but they are passionate, dedicated, and most importantly..generous with their findings.
Yes, there are some students who are very determined to do their best and hopefully make AOA, but there are even more students who dont' really concern themselves with that, while at the same time they feel very confident that they will come out of UCSF landing a great residency.
