Great places for derm away rotations

[myluvlyldybumps]

Congrats to those of you who matched!
For people who have done aways either this year or in any year previously would you mind answering a couple of Qs?

1. Institution
2. Observational/some responsibility/pimpathons
3. Opportunity to get to know some faculty
4. Glad you went/maybe somewhere else if you could do it over again

I realize there is a concern about anonymity. This requires a bit of trust on your part but you can PM me and I will compile everything I get and post it. I am not going to bother to look into who you are 😎. I only went on SDN for the first time this year (3rd year MS!) so this is not my bag but there is a paucity of information on opinions regarding away rotations in derm. Your input is hugely appreciated. Thank you 😍
Wow, these icons are excellent.

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[Dermguy]

Congrats to those of you who matched!
For people who have done aways either this year or in any year previously would you mind answering a couple of Qs?

1. Institution
2. Observational/some responsibility/pimpathons
3. Opportunity to get to know some faculty
4. Glad you went/maybe somewhere else if you could do it over again

I realize there is a concern about anonymity. This requires a bit of trust on your part but you can PM me and I will compile everything I get and post it. I am not going to bother to look into who you are 😎. I only went on SDN for the first time this year (3rd year MS!) so this is not my bag but there is a paucity of information on opinions regarding away rotations in derm. Your input is hugely appreciated. Thank you 😍
Wow, these icons are excellent.

1. I did an away at Mayo. I wanted to do some others, but I applied too late and most other places were full.
2. It was mainly observational. Some of the faculty gave me around 5 minutes to see the patient first. I got to do some biopsies, but the faculty mentioned that I wasn't really "supposed" to be doing them. Kind of weird.
3. I think there are good opportunities to get to know faculty there, but they have a lot of rotators, so I think I wasn't really memorable at the end of the day.
4. I liked my rotation there, and I'm glad I did it, but I would have done another one at another large program--maybe Henry Ford, UC Davis, or Miami.

Good luck everyone. Get out and start arranging your aways now if you really want to get one!

 

[N-Surge]

Indiana!

You will get a ton of "first hand" experience with a great group of physicians. The VA there is supposedly one of the top two in the nation (I believe after having rotated through there), Riley (Peds) is right next to the University Hospital, and the County hospital is like a block down the other way. All hospitals on ONE campus providing a broad patient population to work with.

 

[mohderm]

bump

 

[mkdoc]

bump

 

[Dermguy]

This is a really useful topic--something I wish I would have had more help with last year at this time.

Texas Tech, UT Houston, and Emory will all count your away rotation as your interview. This is a pretty sweet deal, and it makes me wish I would have done an away at one of these rotations because it's another guaranteed interview. On the flip side not everyone who does an away gets an interview everywhere. For example I know people who rotated at NYU and UT Southwestern who were 250+, AOA studs (and don't have personality disorders) who did not get interviews.

In my opinion, if you're not from the west and there's a place in the west where you REALLY want to go, an away rotation is a great way to increase your chances at an interview. I only got one interview out west and it was at a place where I did not rotate. I just got lucky I guess.

Isn't anybody else willing to share their away rotation story? C'mon! 😛

 

[asmallchild]

I think the OP's concern about anonymity makes this difficult. Especially at the smaller programs which can often have just 1 or 2 rotators a month.

 

[mohderm]

come on guys, help us future applicants out. I know all the folks who matched didn't just suddenly disappear from the forum. tell us about the programs you rotated at.

 

[Icecold]

This is a really useful topic--something I wish I would have had more help with last year at this time.

Texas Tech, UT Houston, and Emory will all count your away rotation as your interview. This is a pretty sweet deal, and it makes me wish I would have done an away at one of these rotations because it's another guaranteed interview. On the flip side not everyone who does an away gets an interview everywhere. For example I know people who rotated at NYU and UT Southwestern who were 250+, AOA studs (and don't have personality disorders) who did not get interviews.

In my opinion, if you're not from the west and there's a place in the west where you REALLY want to go, an away rotation is a great way to increase your chances at an interview. I only got one interview out west and it was at a place where I did not rotate. I just got lucky I guess.

Isn't anybody else willing to share their away rotation story? C'mon! 😛

Could doing an away at a place that counts it as your interview maybe hurt you in the sense that your weaknesses you could hide and minimize in a one-day interview are more susceptible to be exposed over a 4-week away rotation?

Of course, there is no guarantee that you'd even be given an interview to begin with, but an away rotation sure puts you under a microscope for a long time. Do they formally interview you before you leave an away rotation? Or do they just base their opinion of you off what they saw clinically over 4 weeks? Personally, I'd prefer a formal interview.

 

[asmallchild]

Could doing an away at a place that counts it as your interview maybe hurt you in the sense that your weaknesses you could hide and minimize in a one-day interview are more susceptible to be exposed over a 4-week away rotation?

Of course, there is no guarantee that you'd even be given an interview to begin with, but an away rotation sure puts you under a microscope for a long time. Do they formally interview you before you leave an away rotation? Or do they just base their opinion of you off what they saw clinically over 4 weeks? Personally, I'd prefer a formal interview.

I prefer formal interviews as well. I think it's nicer to be considered with all the other applicants on the interview day.

Icecold brings up a good point though: I thought away rotations in dermatology would be a breeze. I survived 100 hr work weeks in OBGYN right? How hard could derm be? But being 100% all the time is really draining.

I've heard of some programs offering an interview day at the end of the rotation. Others use the actual rotation as the "interview".

 

[mohderm]

I prefer formal interviews as well. I think it's nicer to be considered with all the other applicants on the interview day.

Icecold brings up a good point though: I thought away rotations in dermatology would be a breeze. I survived 100 hr work weeks in OBGYN right? How hard could derm be? But being 100% all the time is really draining.

I've heard of some programs offering an interview day at the end of the rotation. Others use the actual rotation as the "interview".

Do you know of other where the away is your interview specifically? Also do you know of any where you get an automatic invite if you rotate there?

 

[asmallchild]

Do you know of other where the away is your interview specifically? Also do you know of any where you get an automatic invite if you rotate there?

I believe MCG's away rotation actually serves in place of an interview. (Hearsay, not actual experience. I'm also unclear if the actual rotation itself is the interview or if they offered an interview day on the last day of the rotation)

Regarding automatic invites, I think the official answer is nowhere because it really depends on the rotator's personality. Someone who does a truly atrocious job will definitely not be extended that courtesy. That being said, I do agree it would be a smart idea to do the legwork and speak with past rotators to see if courtesy interviews are given. It would be a shame to waste an opportunity like that. (For instance, I was initially intending to complete an away rotation at a very prestigious program. However, I was warned by my mentors that that particular program hadn't interviewed anyone from our school over the last 4-5 years. I decided it wasn't worth gambling my 1 away rotation on this program despite how much I thought I liked it. In the end, a smart decision)

My limited experience thus far is that normal people who do a good job will usually have an interview extended to them. This does, however, not ring true for some of the prestigious top notch programs out there. Miami is a name that popped up this year on the interview circuit (again, hearsay, not from personal experience)

 

[OntheRoof55]

I did 2 aways at programs that are good ( not top notch)...didn't get interviews from either...i am "normal"...i've heard this happening to a lot of people

 

[Dermguy]

I think the OP's concern about anonymity makes this difficult. Especially at the smaller programs which can often have just 1 or 2 rotators a month.

I agree people have concerns about anonymity, but we should all try to give as many details as we can and remember that NOBODY is scoping out this forum trying to put real names with the screen names.

RE: formal interview vs. away rotation substituting for interview. There is no guarantee that you will get interviews at those institutions that will grant you an interview as a rotator. Even if it's not a great interview, it's still another place to put on your list, and I know several people who have matched through such interviews.

 

[Icecold]

I agree people have concerns about anonymity, but we should all try to give as many details as we can and remember that NOBODY is scoping out this forum trying to put real names with the screen names.

RE: formal interview vs. away rotation substituting for interview. There is no guarantee that you will get interviews at those institutions that will grant you an interview as a rotator. Even if it's not a great interview, it's still another place to put on your list, and I know several people who have matched through such interviews.

So does that mean for a program that counts your rotation as your "interview" you're able to rank that program on your ROL for the match?

 

[Dermguy]

Yes, and they will let you know as much too.

 

[OntheRoof55]

i think one risk of doing an away somewhere is that even though you may not have a personality disorder, you may not end up getting along well with particular resident or faculty...this could hurt you...but overall i think away somewhere u want to go prob won't hurt u

 

[DermMatch]

"1. Institution - U Penn

"2. Observational/some responsibility/pimpathons: Mix of seeing the patient first, observational, some hands-on - depends on who you are working with, and you rotate through many different clinics and settings. There were great didactic learning sessions for med students weekly, plus resident didactics, grand rounds - overall a wonderful learning experience. I didn't experience any pimping, though didactics were interactive - I thought it was a great learning style and non-hostile environment!

"3. Opportunity to get to know some faculty:
You will work with the consult attending for 1 week and will likely know them the best. Another student rotating at the same time made arrangements to work with one particular faculty more frequently, but I took the schedule given and was delighted by the opportunity to work with a variety of faculty members.

"4. Glad you went/maybe somewhere else if you could do it over again: YES! It was an amazing experience and really opened my eyes to an outstanding program, and things to look for in a residency program."

 

[kralwok]

1. USC -- not everyone's cup of tea b/c it's county, but I really enjoyed my time there and enjoy working with the underserved.

2. Very hands on. Got to do biopsies, suturing, saw all patients on my own then with the attending. Often would also present to a resident in between presenting to an attending which gives a great opportunity for them to teach you important things before you present to the attending.

3. Not too much opportunity to get to know faculty but some. The majority of the time was spent in county clinics where you would present to volunteer attendings that I doubt have any say. However, there were some days where you would be assigned to work with e.g. the chair, the PD, other faculty. We probably had a few of these half-days/week, but when you did work with these attendings they were very approachable and you could theoretically try to get to know them somewhat.

4. I am glad I went, mainly because my home derm program was fairly hands off and faculty were more intimidating (at least to me) at my home derm program. USC was very laid back and fun, plus I learned a ton. Residents and faculty were great to work with as were the other USC student rotators.

A word of caution: they hardly give any interviews to rotators. If that is what you are after, then USC may not be your best bet. I did end up getting an interview but did not get in. I was mainly after the learning experience, working at a county facility (have a strong interest in medical dermatology and you get to see really cool things at LA County), and getting a letter of recommendation so it worked out ok for me (though obviously an interview is always great).

Forgot to mention: If you don't speak at least some Spanish, you might have a really difficult time. The majority of patients speak Spanish, and while nearly all staff speak Spanish, it could be hard to get them to help you because the clinics are VERY busy.

 

[dermguy123]

Bump

this is a great thread..

Anyone do rotations in any of the New York/ PA/ NJ or Chicago institutions? That's where I am focusing but also very strongly considering doing one at Indiana (but no one has emailed me back yet?)

Thanks in advance, you are all lifesavers