Halfway done with M1, what to do?

[Divide]

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I worked hard 1st semester, but was not overwhelmed and was able to be in the top 25%. I am thinking about some of the surgical specialties and was wondering what I should focus my time on in the next calendar year (2013). Once 2014 hits, I will go hard for Step 1 so I would like to take care of other matters before then.

I did have a good amount of free time so I am thinking I should either start research or try to put more time in class. Many people in my class are volunteering, running for club positions, community service but that stuff does not really interest me. Can someone give me some direction on how to maximize the next few semesters and the summer in between?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I can almost guarantee you that no residency program cares about class officer positions or community work.

If you are thinking about a competitive surgical subspecialty, doing research in that area and MAKING CONNECTIONS, are most important (outside of your Step 1 score, LORs, etc.). Step 1 score will be most important.

Do not waste your time thinking that being your Class Treasurer or Student AMA Rep makes a hill of beans difference to a surgical residency program.

 

[Divide]

So really the only things that matter are: Step 1, LOR, Clinical Grades, Connections, and Research. If I neglected leadership/community service, that wouldn't matter for matching.

How are each of these factors used by residency directors? If Step 1 is used as a cutoff (ie above 230/240) to grant an interview, what comes next in the pecking order?

 

[Winged Scapula]

So really the only things that matter are: Step 1, LOR, Clinical Grades, Connections, and Research. If I neglected leadership/community service, that wouldn't matter for matching.

Those things are way way down on the list, if they are even included at all. I can't guarantee that it won't matter at all, but IMHO its not worth spending a lot of time on in almost all cases, for almost all programs (surely someone will come along and note that Random Residency Program X requires each applicant to have rescued a pit bill or fed the homeless on Thanksgiving Day or some other thang).

How are each of these factors used by residency directors? If Step 1 is used as a cutoff (ie above 230/240) to grant an interview, what comes next in the pecking order?

See this. You'll notice under the heading "Extracurricular Activities" they are essentially talking about research and not community service, class officers, etc.

I would also venture that at some programs, after interview, there is nothing "next" in the pecking order other than your interview performance.

 

[J ROD]

Most programs list clinical grades or LORs after the Step(s).

 

[ArcGurren]

Eh, if you want to relax or do some traveling or whatever between M1 and M2 I think that would be fine, to be honest. That's what I did. Most folks I know who are going into subspecialty surg didn't decide to do it until their 3rd year (other than the few gunners who dreamed about ortho or neurosurgery every night of their lives) and they got in plenty of research, publications, connections, etc during their 3rd and 4th year.

(NB: I'm applying for IM, and have some research under my belt, so I'm not saying you should do *nothing* research-wise... just not necessarily an absolute need to do so between M1/M2).

 

[dextor2003]

I can almost guarantee you that no residency program cares about class officer positions or community work.

If you are thinking about a competitive surgical subspecialty, doing research in that area and MAKING CONNECTIONS, are most important (outside of your Step 1 score, LORs, etc.). Step 1 score will be most important.

Do not waste your time thinking that being your Class Treasurer or Student AMA Rep makes a hill of beans difference to a surgical residency program.

I'm looking at the 2010 NRMP PD Survey right now, and for peds, "volunteer/extracurricular experiences" is given an importance factor of 3.2, whereas "demonstrated involvement and interest in research" is a 2.9. For IM, volunteering 2.8, research 2.8. FM, 3.4 and 2.2, respectively. So I'm guessing the SDN notion of "research >>>> volunteering/extracurricular" doesn't really apply to these noncompetitive specialties..?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'm looking at the 2010 NRMP PD Survey right now, and for peds, "volunteer/extracurricular experiences" is given an importance factor of 3.2, whereas "demonstrated involvement and interest in research" is a 2.9. For IM, volunteering 2.8, research 2.8. FM, 3.4 and 2.2, respectively. So I'm guessing the SDN notion of "research >>>> volunteering/extracurricular" doesn't really apply to these noncompetitive specialties..?

Yes, that would be true.

But you're missing the point (which was well documented by the other posters above):

1) you asked what you needed to do to match into a surgical specialty; you did not ask about Peds, FM or IM

2) surgical specialties don't care about volunteering as much as they do research

3) no specialities really care much about volunteering or research as they do your USMLE/COMLEX scores, LORs, clinical evaluations. So who cares if it has an "importance factor" of 2.2 or or 3.2? Its relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

4) there is really nothing that needs to be done between MS1 and 2. Honestly, it will be the last summer off you will have for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. Enjoy it.


When it comes down to "all else being equal" ECs still don't matter significantly. What kind of guy you seemed like at interview will. Seriously that's what it often comes down to - everyone has good scores, LORs, etc. but if you're a DB on interview day or I can't fathom talking to you for the next 3-7 years, then I don't really care what you've done in medical school.

Stop obsessing about this.Your classmates that are running for office and volunteering at a shelter on Thanksgiving Day are not doing anything significant for their residency applications, regardless of what they are applying for. Do it if you want to. But don't fool yourself that residency programs are gonna overlook an average Step 1 score and Passes in your clinical rotations because you volunteer at the PitBull Rescue.

 

[dextor2003]

Yes, that would be true.

But you're missing the point (which was well documented by the other posters above):

1) you asked what you needed to do to match into a surgical specialty; you did not ask about Peds, FM or IM

2) surgical specialties don't care about volunteering as much as they do research

3) no specialities really care much about volunteering or research as they do your USMLE/COMLEX scores, LORs, clinical evaluations. So who cares if it has an "importance factor" of 2.2 or or 3.2? Its relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

4) there is really nothing that needs to be done between MS1 and 2. Honestly, it will be the last summer off you will have for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. Enjoy it.


When it comes down to "all else being equal" ECs still don't matter significantly. What kind of guy you seemed like at interview will. Seriously that's what it often comes down to - everyone has good scores, LORs, etc. but if you're a DB on interview day or I can't fathom talking to you for the next 3-7 years, then I don't really care what you've done in medical school.

Stop obsessing about this.Your classmates that are running for office and volunteering at a shelter on Thanksgiving Day are not doing anything significant for their residency applications, regardless of what they are applying for. Do it if you want to. But don't fool yourself that residency programs are gonna overlook an average Step 1 score and Passes in your clinical rotations because you volunteer at the PitBull Rescue.

Haha, I'm not the OP. Just a lowly pre-med who'll be starting med school next year..Sorry to get you all stirred up 😳

 

[Winged Scapula]

Haha, I'm not the OP. Just a lowly pre-med who'll be starting med school next year..Sorry to get you all stirred up 😳

No apologies necessary. It was my mistake.

I'm not stirred up but sometimes med students (like pre-meds) get a little neurotic and I feel the need to talk them off the roof. 😛

 

[dextor2003]

No apologies necessary. It was my mistake.

I'm not stirred up but sometimes med students (like pre-meds) get a little neurotic and I feel the need to talk them off the roof. 😛

Haha, understandable. And don't mean to take over this thread, but do you think the "volunteer/extracurriculars > research" notion also applies for the competitive programs within noncompetitive specialities? I have a very strong interest in peds and was wondering specifically about places like Baylor and Emory. I'd guess having research wouldn't hurt, but I don't know how much more emphasis I'd have to place on it than on volunteering and extracurriculars..

How are each of these factors used by residency directors? If Step 1 is used as a cutoff (ie above 230/240) to grant an interview, what comes next in the pecking order?

In case you haven't seen it yet, here's the 2012 NRMP PD survey. It should have the answer to your question 🙂

http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty2012.pdf

 

[FIREitUP]

i would say while the importance of extracurriculars is low, if you find something you're passionate about and would enjoy, do it. It gives you a well rounded appeal and also something to talk about at interviews. Of course, this isn't an application to med school, so it's not really required, or even necessary. Research would be obviously the most advantageous thing to invest your extra time into.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Haha, understandable. And don't mean to take over this thread, but do you think the "volunteer/extracurriculars > research" notion also applies for the competitive programs within noncompetitive specialities? I have a very strong interest in peds and was wondering specifically about places like Baylor and Emory. I'd guess having research wouldn't hurt, but I don't know how much more emphasis I'd have to place on it than on volunteering and extracurriculars..

Good question.

I'll defer to those in Peds or at Baylor in regards to that. I'd venture that some apparent commitment to the health of children would be a nice thing to show.

i would say while the importance of extracurriculars is low, if you find something you're passionate about and would enjoy, do it. It gives you a well rounded appeal and also something to talk about at interviews. Of course, this isn't an application to med school, so it's not really required, or even necessary. Research would be obviously the most advantageous thing to invest your extra time into.

👍

 

[Tomodachi123]

I wish I knew in MS1 how little time I would have in MS3 to socialize. Looking back, I wish I had taken more interest in socializing with the guys in my class and possibly meeting someone nice.

 

[Divide]

What is the secret behind how medical students get so many publications? Also, is there a point of diminishing returns when it comes to research?

 

[Frazier]

What is the secret behind how medical students get so many publications? Also, is there a point of diminishing returns when it comes to research?

Trick is finding the golden mentor/s.

Get in good with a rockstar PI that publishes 20 papers a year and watch your numbers climb. 😎

Pick a mentor that hasn't published anything in the past 5 years and well... good luck.

 

[GadRads]

Blais is correct. I think the key is to avoid purely basic science work--it's usually more rigorous, requires more work, more trouble-shooting, peer review is harsher, more reviewer experiments, more pain, more time before you can publish a first-author paper, etc.

So look for short-term clinical projects and write. Some clinical projects involve looking at pre-existing databases, doing analysis and writing. I know an undergrad who wrote a paper in one summer from looking at an outcomes database and doing simple analysis.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Haha, understandable. And don't mean to take over this thread, but do you think the "volunteer/extracurriculars > research" notion also applies for the competitive programs within noncompetitive specialities? I have a very strong interest in peds and was wondering specifically about places like Baylor and Emory. I'd guess having research wouldn't hurt, but I don't know how much more emphasis I'd have to place on it than on volunteering and extracurriculars..

Applying to peds now... I get the feeling that while research may get you further at major academic centers, it's still not seen as a requirement. Not everyone is going to subspecialize in a research-heavy field, so for some people research would be totally useless. I think the important thing is still to have a few things that you are passionate in, and then be able to demonstrate how you acted on that. Exactly what those things are can be whatever you want, but if it's volunteering, I would be some sort of leader and improve whatever organization you volunteer in; anybody can volunteer at the PitBull Rescue, as that just takes showing up, You can do research, or volunteering, or legislative action, or teaching, or really just about anything you like, just make sure you have something meaningful to show for it and can articulate that in an interview.

And just to reiterate, as always, Step 1 score and clinical grades will always be very important, as will the interview.

 

[rafman]

I was wondering how much class rank based on preclinical grades affect residency applications? Will being near the middle of the class exclude someone from competitive specialties?

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I can almost guarantee you that no residency program cares about class officer positions or community work.

If you are thinking about a competitive surgical subspecialty, doing research in that area and MAKING CONNECTIONS, are most important (outside of your Step 1 score, LORs, etc.). Step 1 score will be most important.

Do not waste your time thinking that being your Class Treasurer or Student AMA Rep makes a hill of beans difference to a surgical residency program.

do you know if this applies to everything. i know you said you are talking about surgical things but in general. if i volunteer and am a class officer, PLUS i get some research or would it be more beneficial to spend every free second (realistic free second i mean) on research. i enjoy being a class officer and volunteering but am i wasting my time?

i don't have the slightest idea what I want to do as I am just an M1, but I want to set myself up the best way i can.

 

[rafman]

I was wondering how much class rank based on preclinical grades affect residency applications? Will being near the middle of the class exclude someone from competitive specialties?

 

[ArcGurren]

I was wondering how much class rank based on preclinical grades affect residency applications? Will being near the middle of the class exclude someone from competitive specialties?

Depending on your school class rank may be used to determine your eligibility for AOA selection. It will not put you out of the running although of course your other parts of your application also need to be strong (step 1, clinical grades, letters of recommendation, and research). I know at least two people who matched into dermatology who were not AOA and one had less than stellar board scores (they did a year of research to make up for it) and I think only 50% of matched applicants have it anyway.

 

[ArcGurren]

I also wanted to add that I think volunteering and leadership absolutely helps your application in many fields if you have done something substantial (sat on a school admissions board, leader of your specialty interest group, etc); far from what the cynics might claim, more than my research, it was my more unique leadership stuff that came up during interviews. So if you're interested there is absolutely some strong value to it.

 

[CuttingCorneas]

I was wondering how much class rank based on preclinical grades affect residency applications? Will being near the middle of the class exclude someone from competitive specialties?

Depends on the program and specialty, but in most cases, no.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty2012.pdf

 

[Winged Scapula]

do you know if this applies to everything. i know you said you are talking about surgical things but in general. if i volunteer and am a class officer, PLUS i get some research or would it be more beneficial to spend every free second (realistic free second i mean) on research. i enjoy being a class officer and volunteering but am i wasting my time?

i don't have the slightest idea what I want to do as I am just an M1, but I want to set myself up the best way i can.

If you enjoy being a class officer and volunteering, then you should continue doing that. It would be unfortunate if you gave up something you enjoyed and were good at under the false assumption that you needed to devote all your free time to something else.

My point was that medical students act like all those ECs they did to get into medical school are somehow magical and are the key to residency matching. They will often fill up their schedule with these and neglecting other things. Are they a complete waste? No. But they won't make up for a substandard USMLE/COMLEX score, run of the mill LORs, grades, etc. Leadership is important in any specialty, not just surgical ones, but it shouldn't replace the most important things I've listed above and things you enjoy doing.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

I also wanted to add that I think volunteering and leadership absolutely helps your application in many fields if you have done something substantial (sat on a school admissions board, leader of your specialty interest group, etc); far from what the cynics might claim, more than my research, it was my more unique leadership stuff that came up during interviews. So if you're interested there is absolutely some strong value to it.

I can assure you that this is not what got you the interview in the first place. It was just something that your interviewer found interesting in your file to talk about to see if this was something fluff or were you really involved.

There is no filter on NRMP for me to screen you for "unique" leadership. I not downplaying the importance that this activity had for you just saying these things won't make or break your application. For them to see you have a unique skill, you have to pass the "filter test" first

As mentioned earlier, USMLEs, AOA, LORs esp good ones from big names, research etc will be looked at first and rest is just gravy - you can't have a nourshing meal just with gravy

 

[CanIMakeIt]

I was wondering how much class rank based on preclinical grades affect residency applications? Will being near the middle of the class exclude someone from competitive specialties?

If you have a class rank, that will show up on the Dean's letter and may affect if they say you are Outstanding, excellent, very good, good etc candidate at the end of the letter. This can be overcome for really competitive fields with better USMLEs, LORs, research etc - you could still make AOA based on clinical years