Harvard Clinical

[cougar fool]

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I would like to know what Harvard's clinacal exposure and requirements are like. I know that they are grade to prep students for specialty programs but how are they at training general dentists?

 

[Steven11224]

I heard that they start waxing up teeth at the end of their second year. I go to temple and at the end of our second year we already have patients.

 

[mirk3]

I interviewed there. They do medical school for the first two years with the med students, but it's harder because they also take head and neck anatomy. They go into third year with essentially zero dental experience, they it's all thrown at them and they have to learn how to wax and do preps and they start in clinic 3rd year. Apparently their graduates are very good clinically, so the rumor that they aren't good clinically is a myth.

 

[JDelicious]

As a Harvard student, I can tell you from first hand experience that I do not feel the least bit less trained than dentists from other schools. Previously stated, our first 2 years are a balance between med school and dental school training. We do great on the boards. Entering clinic is undoubtedly a huge shift in gears. We fare well though. I feel confident in making treatment decisions and get a great opportunity to plan and work up cases with faculty and residents. We share the clinic floor with residents, which is a plus for the students. We also have requirements in Perio surgery, which I know most students in dental school do not get exposure to. For my class we had to do 8 surgeries to graduate. The program is balanced: academics, research, clinic, exposure to lots of other facets in dentistry, 3 month community site rotation (where you practice dentistry alongside students from Tufts & Boston Univ.), Oral Surgery & Oral Path rotations... it was a great experience! Plus our faculty are really approachable and committed. I think the big draw for Harvard is what you want to do after dental school. Our last graduating class had several students that went on to GPR or private practice, but for the most part if you want to specialize after school that door is open to you.

 

[Cold Front]

A classmate of mine did his externship with Harvard students at a community health clinic. He didn't think the Harvard kids were ready for the real world without doing a residency in general dentistry. Plus their graduation requirements were not as extensive as Tufts or BU's. While my friend was busy doing dentistry, the Harvard students were busy applying to post-doc programs.

 

[Truedat]

Perio surgical procedures can range from laying basic flaps to allow deep S/RP😴 to more intricate surgeries such as sinus lifts. Specifically, what kind of Perio surgeries are you doing at Harvard as undergrads?

 

[JDelicious]

We have requirements: 12 root canals, 17 crowns, 1 implant crown, 5 units removable, to name a few. It's a smaller class so there is more to go around.
I would not worry about clinic, it is what you make it to be. If you want to do 30 crowns before graduating we have enough patients for that. If you want to do 17 that's fine, too.

In comparing students I would honestly be a little careful, because some Harvard students would say the same thing about those schools, too. For example, did your friend at BU also tell you about their classmate that took a dental impression (in the patient's mouth) with plaster?? Talk about a mishap. I have friends that graduated from BU & Tufts, and I respect them as clinicians. That's not true of every single student at any school.

And as for applying to residency... is there something wrong with that?? Not everyone can into residency, you know. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Of my class only 2 people didn't get into residency, and 1 went straight into private practice. Everyone else is in some residency program now by choice.

As for Perio, what school would allow a Pre-doc to do a sinus lift? Are you kidding? Can you say lawsuit? Sc/Rp is not surgery. Surgery= free gingival graft, implant placement (yes, you can actually place the implant if you work with certain instructors), flap osseous, distal wedge, crown lengthening. We were not allowed to do more complicated procedure like CT graft or other grafting, but we definitely get exposed to it. We are not in dental lab first year carving or waxing anything, but studies show that within a year out we are at the same level clinically as any other student.

Harvard is not perfect... no school is. Your school has to do what you want it to do, get you to the next level. If someone is applying on this thread (which I think is who this thread is supposed to be about) I would consider what you want out of your dental school program. It is what you make it to be, like at any other school. Harvard is BIG on leadership in the dental field, being a clinician and then some.

 

[xhamburgersamx]

We have requirements: 12 root canals, 17 crowns, 1 implant crown, 5 units removable, to name a few. It's a smaller class so there is more to go around.
I.

12 rct's is pretty standard, 17 is slightly lower. Most schools require 20+. 5 units removable which includes full and rpds? That is really lower than average for sure

 

[jay47]

12 rct's is pretty standard, 17 is slightly lower. Most schools require 20+. 5 units removable which includes full and rpds? That is really lower than average for sure

Those are the requirements, but if I know students at Harvard, they probably do quite a bit more than that because most of them are overachievers (no offense, it's a good thing!).

 

[Truedat]

JDelicious...Whoa buddy, I am not on the attack, just curious.

Did I infer that a Pre-doc should do a sinus lift? No. Do I know what procedures a Periodontist performs? Yes. I was simply identifying the wide range of periodontal procedures that your previous post could have implied, from laying a basic envelope or vertical releasing flap to expose the roots and allow direct visualization for S/RP, to a difficult Sinus Augmentation.

All I wanted to know, out of curiosity, was what type of perio surgeries Undergrads are performing. A simple list would have sufficed.

 

[sajjy]

We have requirements: 12 root canals, 17 crowns, 1 implant crown, 5 units removable, to name a few. It's a smaller class so there is more to go around.
I would not worry about clinic, it is what you make it to be. If you want to do 30 crowns before graduating we have enough patients for that. If you want to do 17 that's fine, too.

In comparing students I would honestly be a little careful, because some Harvard students would say the same thing about those schools, too. For example, did your friend at BU also tell you about their classmate that took a dental impression (in the patient's mouth) with plaster?? Talk about a mishap. I have friends that graduated from BU & Tufts, and I respect them as clinicians. That's not true of every single student at any school.

And as for applying to residency... is there something wrong with that?? Not everyone can into residency, you know. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Of my class only 2 people didn't get into residency, and 1 went straight into private practice. Everyone else is in some residency program now by choice.

As for Perio, what school would allow a Pre-doc to do a sinus lift? Are you kidding? Can you say lawsuit? Sc/Rp is not surgery. Surgery= free gingival graft, implant placement (yes, you can actually place the implant if you work with certain instructors), flap osseous, distal wedge, crown lengthening. We were not allowed to do more complicated procedure like CT graft or other grafting, but we definitely get exposed to it. We are not in dental lab first year carving or waxing anything, but studies show that within a year out we are at the same level clinically as any other student.

Harvard is not perfect... no school is. Your school has to do what you want it to do, get you to the next level. If someone is applying on this thread (which I think is who this thread is supposed to be about) I would consider what you want out of your dental school program. It is what you make it to be, like at any other school. Harvard is BIG on leadership in the dental field, being a clinician and then some.

12 rct's is pretty standard, 17 is slightly lower. Most schools require 20+. 5 units removable which includes full and rpds? That is really lower than average for sure

Try to read the whole sentence!!
Also, the procedures completed at the community centers during the 4th year are not counted towards graduation. So, those procedures are completed by the students on top of their graduation requirements.
And I feel ( it is strictly my feeling and SHOULD NOT BE GENERALIZED) that Harvard's goal is to prepare their students for further education- Residency, research, MPH/MPP or PhD.
I wonder why SDNers have hard time understanding the fact that all schools are good. The best school is the one that helps in achieving your goals and fulfilling your expectations. Also, another important thing is what do you want out of your dental education- preparation for general practice, residency, research/academics?

 

[JDelicious]

Try to read the whole sentence!!
Also, the procedures completed at the community centers during the 4th year are not counted towards graduation. So, those procedures are completed by the students on top of their graduation requirements.
And I feel ( it is strictly my feeling and SHOULD NOT BE GENERALIZED) that Harvard's goal is to prepare their students for further education- Residency, research, MPH/MPP or PhD.
I wonder why SDNers have hard time understanding the fact that all schools are good. The best school is the one that helps in achieving your goals and fulfilling your expectations. Also, another important thing is what do you want out of your dental education- preparation for general practice, residency, research/academics?

Thanks Sajjy, that is so true! Your dental school decision is personal; it's about what you want, what your goals are. Any accredited school will give you a great education.

Truedat, my bad. Thought you were trying to be cute. 😛 Anyways, you got your list. Everything after "surgery=" is fair game for a pre-doc to do.

 

[Svart Aske]

Chiming in here, I have a question for the Harvard students: What do you think the admissions committee look for when admitting students? When you look at your classmates, what common traits or strengths can you discern among them that might have been recognized by the admissions people? In another thread I attempted to make sense of HSDM's admissions process (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8788792&postcount=40), and I'm wondering how far off I am on this.

 

[S Files]

pretty sweet perio surgery requirements. i've been really impressed with the harvard grads i've come across (both clinically, and in leadership roles). the small class size is definitely a plus. don't mean to hijack here, but if i was an applicant, i'd be concerned about going to one of those schools with huge class sizes (what's NYU's now?? a couple hundred at least)..that's a place you could really fall through the cracks...