Harvard, Hopkins, WashU, Yale... help

[QuantumFlame]

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Hey everyone!

First of all, thank you so much for the feedback - you're all REALLY helpful and thinking of things I hadn't even thought of yet!!!!! 🙂

I really did want to kick Harvard off my list, I just feel like the general sentiment of "NO ONE turns down Harvard blah blah" was too strong, so thank you for proving me wrong 🙂

A final point, based on my desire to be a surgeon (I'll add as an aside here that I was a surgical tech for a long time, so I hope I do actually know what I'm getting into!) is the the quality of the Hospital. Wash U/ Barnes Jewish is a good hospital but definitely not a nationally acclaimed center, where as Hopkins is like a super super duper hospital. Does that matter at all?

Just want to echo the fact that lots of people turn down HMS for many different reasons. I was in your shoes last year, and was choosing between similar programs (Hopkins, Yale, HMS etc.), and ultimately chose Penn for the full tuition scholarship, and haven't regretted it since. Take the money, and the peace of mind that it brings and run. You won't be held back at all. I say this not to pat myself on the back, but because I remember people in my life saying I was foolish for turning down HMS. Truth is, I knew I would be happier at Penn, and the financial situation was icing on the cake. Sounds like WashU is the best option for you, so don't let anyone make you feel bad for choosing WashU, or any equivalent school that is the best fit for you

 

[Goro]

Lets concentrate on what's really important:

Seafood (Harvard and Yale) vs crabcakes (JHU) vs barbeque (Wash U)!!

Serious, go for Wash U.

Hi all,
Please don't kill me for asking this question, as I promise it is serious. I'm trying to decide between these 4 schools, and I am very, very, very, torn. I have literally ZERO family members in the medical/academic field, so I have no clue what the heck I'm doing or what I should be prioritizing here. I faced a similar situation choosing undergrad (top ranked schools, no family or community experience with ivy leagues), and I DIDN'T solicit advice from people with relevant experience - a decision I really came to regret! I would appreciate everyone's advice, from student to attending.

I'm a non-trad (age 24) from the midwest. I don't come from money, but I also don't qualify for AMCAS disadvantaged status. I did my undergrad at Harvard, an experience that gave me a fancy piece of paper and PTSD.

My goals are: kick butt on Step 1, do tons of basic sciences research likely including masters/PhD, be a surgeon, get a good residency at a top-10 hospital (Mayo, Hopkins, Cleveland, etc.)

Harvard:
Pros: it's Harvard
Cons: new curriculum looks terrible, I hate Boston, I hate Harvard, Boston's expensive, I really should have applied to HST instead of Pathways, I hate airplanes, did I mention I hate Boston/Harvard?

Yale:
Pros: Love the Yale system, curriculum looks ok
Cons: Hard to get to (no major airport plus I hate flying), not as highly ranked as other schools

Hopkins:
Pros: it's Hopkins, curriculum looks decent but don't like that I can't stream lectures, my favorite favorite sister might be in DC for my M2-M4 years
Cons: Baltimore == The Wire???, hate flying, expensive: about $10k more per year than Harvard or Yale, about $20k more per year than WashU

WashU:
Pros: FREE TUITION and I have a fellowship that has a special name so it looks good on my resume, it's in the midwest and I'm a very midwestern person, curriculum is good, research and flexibility with MD/PhD hugely emphasized, St.Louis is only a 6-8 hour drive to my husband and my entire extended family, cost of living in St.Louis is low
Cons: very few non-trad students matriculate here so I would be "out of place", no name recognition nationally/internationally, always having to explain to everyone that I don't live in Seattle, who the hell goes to WashU when they can go to Harvard

Thanks!

 

[KillaKitteh]

The people who won't know that WashU is a great program will be the same people who think you're going to medical school to be a nurse.

Go to WashU.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Okay. Let's set aside the fact that you were insecure about applying with a 3.90/3.93 from Harvard and a 42 MCAT. What's more important is that your MCAT wouldn't even be close to expired by next cycle!

I didn't think the OP was a troll until I saw this...

 

[breakintheroof]

I didn't think the OP was a troll until I saw this...

Ha ha, I don't fault you for being suspicious. But if she's a troll, she'd have to be a master of the long con. Here's her MCAT post from last year. It's consistent with her story, both the facts and the attitude--she says she paid for a retake before getting the score back despite a >40 AAMC average.

Anyway, I feel like I have met people like OP in real life who are very talented but a little unrealistic, and what she's written rings true to me.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

But if she's a troll, she'd have to be a master of the long con.

The best trolls are...

 

[Shams al Deen]

Ha ha, I don't fault you for being suspicious. But if she's a troll, she'd have to be a master of the long con. Here's her MCAT post from last year. It's consistent with her story, both the facts and the attitude--she says she paid for a retake before getting the score back despite a >40 AAMC average.

lol 14 on PS was 'screwing up'.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Ha ha, I don't fault you for being suspicious. But if she's a troll, she'd have to be a master of the long con. Here's her MCAT post from last year. It's consistent with her story, both the facts and the attitude--she says she paid for a retake before getting the score back despite a >40 AAMC average.

Anyway, I feel like I have met people like OP in real life who are very talented but a little unrealistic, and what she's written rings true to me.

I don't actually think she's a troll either, just pointing out the extreme absurdity of her thinking.

I've known people like her my whole life actually, a combination of anxiety and a lack of self-awareness. I'm sure that's why she had such a hard time at Harvard as an undergrad.

 

[NickNaylor]

I don't actually think she's a troll either, just pointing out the extreme absurdity of her thinking.

I've known people like her my whole life actually, a combination of anxiety and a lack of self-awareness. I'm sure that's why she had such a hard time at Harvard as an undergrad.

And I've found that unless these people do extremely well academically (which I'm guessing she is likely to given her record), they're probably going to find trouble once they get to the residency process and will actually have to work closely with a relatively small number of people over years...

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

And I've found that unless these people do extremely well academically (which I'm guessing she is likely to given her record), they're probably going to find trouble once they get to the residency process and will actually have to work closely with a relatively small number of people over years...

I didn't want to extrapolate too much, but yes.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Legit question, TV gets it right sometimes, I mean I went into surgery because of Grey's Anatomy and it is exactly the same!

Tots the same

 

[MathGirl25]

Hi,

Since this thread is now just people insulting each other, I've removed my posts. Please continue to insult me elsewhere 🙂

Thanks

 

[gettheleadout]

Haha. Well I'm glad you've all decided I'm going to choke in residency.... 😛

But seriously, my application circumstances were somewhat unusual, and my application was quite non-standard. I received some singularly bad advice from several pre-med advisers about my chances of getting in unless I had a "perfect" MCAT score.

I actually have a quite long rant about the emphasis that we give to pre-meds about completing all of the "standard" and "necessary" experiences before med school - i.e., 200 hours of shadowing, 200 hours of clinical volunteering, leader of X number of extracurricular activities in X different areas, etc, etc, etc. Although I had the advantage of having both a lot of clinical experience and a lot of medical research experience before applying, I had almost none of those cute little check boxes filled. Someday I'll write out my rant about what pre-meds should really focus on (doing what they love and seeing if it leads them to medicine) - and hopefully spare some people like me from going through the years of anxiety attacks about "Oh my gosh I will NEVER get into med school because I have only shadowed 7 doctors!"

TL;DR: I had no friking clue how adcoms would respond to my app. Pre-med advising is stressful BS.

Spending time reading SDN would dispel ridiculous stuff like this...

 

[breakintheroof]

Someday I'll write out my rant about what pre-meds should really focus on (doing what they love and seeing if it leads them to medicine) - and hopefully spare some people like me from going through the years of anxiety attacks about "Oh my gosh I will NEVER get into med school because I have only shadowed 7 doctors!"

TL;DR: I had no friking clue how adcoms would respond to my app. Pre-med advising is stressful BS.

I am 100% with you here, MathGirl25.

I personally don't doubt that you'll be fine in residency. Though as I wrote above I think you went overboard in taking the advice you got to heart.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

hopefully spare some people like me from going through the years of anxiety attacks about "Oh my gosh I will NEVER get into med school because I have only shadowed 7 doctors!"
.

I'm sorry but if you have a 3.9 and a 42 and a Harvard degree you should have a basic ability to use google. Your credentials are better than approximately 99.9% of med school applicants. Getting anxiety attacks and extreme thinking like trying to register for the 2015 MCAT when you have a 42 just makes no sense. You shouldn't need to have your hand held through this process when the information is easily available.

 

[gettheleadout]

I am 100% with you here, MathGirl25.

Honestly I don't feel like that's realistic if you want to ensure you get the highest quality education and opportunities you can (i.e. attending selective med schools), unless you just happen to love things like work-intensive, productive pursuits that result in recognition amongst your peers.

 

[Vain Brother]

I...just find it very difficult to believe that any pre-med advisor would say that you needed a "perfect" MCAT score to get into med school. especially one at Harvard, where like 20% of the class are pre-med...

you should be very proud of your accomplishments. i'm also glad that it seems like you're going to washU and staying in your comfort zone, because it seems like you might benefit from that sort of stable support system

 

[gettheleadout]

edit: whatever

 

[MathGirl25]

Hi,

Since this thread is now just people insulting each other, I've removed my posts. Please continue to insult me elsewhere 🙂

Thanks

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Actually, a basic ability to use google tells me that only (haha) 93.6% of students with 3.8+ and 39+ were accepted last year. It's on the AAMC website. Besides, who should I trust, an adviser sitting in front of me at my school, or anonymous internet posters? In this case, the anonymous posters. But I don't think that's true in general.

Not anonymous posters on the internet.

Reliable sources. The AAMC is a start.

But you use only the simplest of a metric, and fail to recognize that a 39 does not necessarily equal a 42 (in fact are far different), and that a 3.8 is not a 3.9+, and that most of those people didn't have the added benefit of going to arguably the best college in the US, and you also have according to your own posts substantial medical research on top of these things.

Not to mention that most people would consider 94% pretty damn good odds to start with.

It's hard to argue that if you got acceptances and merit scholarships to almost all the top schools in the country, and you were worried about not getting in at all, that there aren't some serious problems with your self-perception.

 

[gettheleadout]

Actually, a basic ability to use google tells me that only (haha) 93.6% of students with 3.8+ and 39+ were accepted last year. It's on the AAMC website. Besides, who should I trust, an adviser sitting in front of me at my school, or anonymous internet posters? In this case, the anonymous posters. But I don't think that's true in general.

SDN has numerous verified admissions faculty.

 

[Mr Interesting]

edit: whatever

I know you deleted this but I saw it. It was a little harsh but I laughed.

Actually, a basic ability to use google tells me that only (haha) 93.6% of students with 3.8+ and 39+ were accepted last year. It's on the AAMC website. Besides, who should I trust, an adviser sitting in front of me at my school, or anonymous internet posters? In this case, the anonymous posters. But I don't think that's true in general.

Hmm... The anonymous posters who dispense the best advice are verified (adcoms and physicians). I would rather take their word then the advisers at a school I hate.

Edit: Gettheleadout beat me to it.

 

[584376]

Actually, a basic ability to use google tells me that only (haha) 93.6% of students with 3.8+ and 39+ were accepted last year. It's on the AAMC website. Besides, who should I trust, an adviser sitting in front of me at my school, or anonymous internet posters? In this case, the anonymous posters. But I don't think that's true in general.

Still, how did you not realize your MCAT and GPA were over the average stats of matriculants for EVERY SCHOOL IN AMERICA?

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Anyhoo to get this thread back on track...

1. Where exactly does your husband live? Are you planning long-distance for the next four years? Are there any options closer than 8 hours since that seems to be the closest you've told us among the four schools? I'd reopen your search to consider other choices if it means not doing long-distance.

2. You need to start over and do some research on these schools on your own. Your misconceptions about Barnes-Jewish in particular show a disturbing amount of ignorance (it is, for one, a much better teaching hospital than Yale and has better residency program offerings in nearly every field). Similar to in your original post listing two "top 10" hospitals that aren't really known for the quality of their residency programs.

3. Money money money. You have your pick of some great schools and if the difference in prestige is marginal than you need to consider the financial ramifications.

4. 24 isn't "non-trad". That's the average age of matriculation.

 

[breakintheroof]

Honestly I don't feel like that's realistic if you want to ensure you get the highest quality education and opportunities you can (i.e. attending selective med schools), unless you just happen to love things like work-intensive, productive pursuits that result in recognition amongst your peers.

I feel that the person you described here is in fact exactly what medical schools search for. At the interviews I went to, it seemed like most people I met had followed their interests and ended up with evidence of success in this kind of pursuit. Medicine itself is work-intensive, productive, and focused on recognition among one's peers--it makes sense to select those who love that kind of thing.

Whether it is realistic to advise premeds to do this I am not sure. But while high-risk, it is also a high-reward way to get selected to attend a medical school.

 

[MathGirl25]

Hi,

Since this thread is now just people insulting each other, I've removed my posts. Please continue to insult me elsewhere 🙂

Thanks

 

[Amba]

As everyone else has said, this shouldn't even be a question. WashU without a doubt. I think you are severely underestimating the name of WashU within medicine, and if your goal is to land a top residency/competitive specialty/etc, it's ridiculous to think that WashU will hold you back in any way.

 

[Danbo1957]

Wash U. And congrats...

(Most of Baltimore is like The Wire, but less glamorous. 🙂 Heroin addicts lying in the streets, literally. God what a dump. Good place to practice emergency medicine and trauma, though...)

 

[DokterMom]

OK, so if proximity to your husband drops off the radar, then I think Yale and Hopkins deserve another look. NOT because there's anything wrong with Wash U, the only 'real' deficit being that less well-educated people will not be as impressed as with Hopkins, Harvard or Yale. For people who know - the ones who will influence your career path --Wash U is certainly in the same league.

What other (non-husband) reasons do you have for preferring Wash U to Hopkins and Yale? How did each school feel? Financially, the debt load is unlikely to be a huge burden, and I'd hazard a guess that you could 'up' either Yale's or Hopkin's merit aid offer if it were a deal-breaker.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

(Before getting back on track): to be fair, I received only good advice from the pre-med office at Harvard. They are fantastic - all 2 times I interacted with them. I graduated many years before even becoming pre-med, so the majority of my advising came from another school. Since I wasn't a traditional pre-med, I didn't have the benefit of friends and support groups of people going through the process with me, and to be honest, I didn't really read SDN very much until recently. It's a tough process to feel out when you don't have peers, family, or friends to ask for advice. OF COURSE hindsight is 20/20 and now I know I will get into med school. Duh. So @SouthernSurgeon - it makes me a little sad that you basically think I'm a clueless egomaniac, but I guess that's your opinion and unlikely to change.

1. I can't control how close my husband is and I honestly don't care to try. We've spent 5+ years 200o+ miles apart, he travels 60% of the time and moves lots and unpredictably. I study better when he's not home anyways. It works for us and we're happy - every time I see him, it's special and makes us really appreciate the time we have together. Not everyone's relationship is cookie-cutter 🙂
2. How do you suggest evaluating hospitals, other than USNWR and their own websites? This is a serious question, because I don't think either source is super reliable. I've been asking students at various schools a lot about their curricula and class models, because I think that's most likely to influence my medical education the most at the beginning, whereas the hospital resources would likely have the greatest impact on my last 2 years.
3. Yep. $ is important. But how important is +/- $40k in total debt? Again, this is a serious question that I have no way to evaluate.

I didn't bring up your husband to imply that your relationship is "cookie-cutter".

But one of us has been through medical school and the other has not.

You already seem to have been unhappy in undergrad. Medical school is hard. A lot harder for most than undergrad. Your support network matters in helping get you through it.

I get more work done and am more productive when my SO is working night float. Doesn't mean that either of us are happier or less stressed during those periods.

 

[ridethecliche]

Spending time reading SDN would dispel ridiculous stuff like this...

Some people are more stubborn than others.

I am 100% with you here, MathGirl25.

I personally don't doubt that you'll be fine in residency. Though as I wrote above I think you went overboard in taking the advice you got to heart.

I didn't know that Harvard had such awful advisers... Unless they're trying to make recommendations only for HMS.

I'm sorry but if you have a 3.9 and a 42 and a Harvard degree you should have a basic ability to use google. Your credentials are better than approximately 99.9% of med school applicants. Getting anxiety attacks and extreme thinking like trying to register for the 2015 MCAT when you have a 42 just makes no sense. You shouldn't need to have your hand held through this process when the information is easily available.

I feel like this level of self doubt is troubling nonetheless. Maybe the OP will get over it, but being able to have some sort of certainty by using available info is a nice thing for a doctor to have.

Honestly I don't feel like that's realistic if you want to ensure you get the highest quality education and opportunities you can (i.e. attending selective med schools), unless you just happen to love things like work-intensive, productive pursuits that result in recognition amongst your peers.

I feel that the person you described here is in fact exactly what medical schools search for. At the interviews I went to, it seemed like most people I met had followed their interests and ended up with evidence of success in this kind of pursuit. Medicine itself is work-intensive, productive, and focused on recognition among one's peers--it makes sense to select those who love that kind of thing.

Whether it is realistic to advise premeds to do this I am not sure. But while high-risk, it is also a high-reward way to get selected to attend a medical school.

Responding to the two above quotes together... Yeah. Break is right. There are shockingly people that actually love this stuff because of the stuff not because of the supposed payout, some of those people are competitive, some of those people get lucky, but those people definitely exist. Those same people find a way to be awesome wherever they go. That's where the passion part comes from.

 

[radiologyology]

OP, I think some of the backlash from people on this forum (filled with already brilliant people) simply cannot believe that you thought you did not have a chance at getting into medical school. Somebody with both a near perfect GPA and MCAT that also graduated from the best school in the world isn't kidding anyone when he/she doubts her/his own chances. A student of that caliber should recognize their own accomplishments. False humility can be as offputting as arrogance. Think about the people (>99.9% of all students) that have inferior stats. When you say you didn't think you had a chance, it comes off as fake to everybody else. I'm not trying to be mean, it's just the truth. It's OK to know you're a rockstar, but you have to find somewhere in the middle of gloating and "self-doubt".

 

[breakintheroof]

Responding to the two above quotes together... Yeah. Break is right. There are shockingly people that actually love this stuff because of the stuff not because of the supposed payout, some of those people are competitive, some of those people get lucky, but those people definitely exist. Those same people find a way to be awesome wherever they go. That's where the passion part comes from.

There are definitely a few highly coveted people in the applicant pool who fit this definition. They are the ones who wow you the instant you meet them and only get more impressive from there.

The rest of us are a mix between what I described and what GTLO did, sometimes going for what's interesting regardless of the med school game and sometimes considering what gives the best chance of reaching that educational milestone. Most nontrads have by definition spent significant time in the former category, which I think is part of why MathGirl and I both endorse that aspect.

 

[QuantumFlame]

OP, I think some of the backlash from people on this forum (filled with already brilliant people) simply cannot believe that you thought you did not have a chance at getting into medical school. Somebody with both a near perfect GPA and MCAT that also graduated from the best school in the world isn't kidding anyone when he/she doubts her/his own chances. A student of that caliber should recognize their own accomplishments. False humility can be as offputting as arrogance. Think about the people (>99.9% of all students) that have inferior stats. When you say you didn't think you had a chance, it comes off as fake to everybody else. I'm not trying to be mean, it's just the truth. It's OK to know you're a rockstar, but you have to find somewhere in the middle of gloating and "self-doubt".

I really understand what you are trying to say, and I think overall it's a balanced perspective. But let's remember that what we know about OP (and by extension everybody else here) is really a skewed perspective of a complex person. To simply dismiss someone for having doubts, without truly understanding their psychology, their background, their life experiences and the whole mix of logic and emotion that roils about when a premed considers medical school is simplistic and kind of arrogant. I had amazing stats, and I still felt like it was a crapshoot, and that I might not get the results I wanted. Everybody around me was saying I was going to get in everywhere, but I didn't believe them. Was it logical? No! Was it pathological or indicative of some character/personality defect as some have suggested? No! Did that self-doubt hold me back? Not at all. I rocked my interviews and ultimately was fortunate enough to garner multiple acceptances at top 10 schools. Let's step back and realize that summarily passing judgement on others, when we haven't even scratched the surface of who they are is silly and counter-productive.

 

[ridethecliche]

Yeah, I think the nontrad moniker is weird. I'm 26 and I've spent a lot of time working in a hospital setting (education and clinical research) since I graduated from college. Sure, I'm 'older', but I'm not much of a non-trad except that I took time. I'd consider someone that is 24 and applying more of a non-trad than me if they took their pre-reqs after graduating and were working in...say consulting/finance/etc/... before applying.

The 'born again' non-trads range in age from their mid 20's to their 40's (and some older!) that have had a totally different path/life before the go down this rabbit hole.

GTLO and you are both right and the reality is somewhere in the middle. Heh.

I think the med school admissions process is almost like a game at times. Sure you can check the boxes and be okay, but to be at the pointy end of the stick it takes a certain drive that's necessary no matter what to get to that level. You don't just get there because you're smart and know what you have to do. Doing it all is more than half the struggle... armchair quarterback analogies come to mind.

I really understand what you are trying to say, and I think overall it's a balanced perspective. But let's remember that what we know about OP (and by extension everybody else here) is really a skewed perspective of a complex person. To simply dismiss someone for having doubts, without truly understanding their psychology, their background, their life experiences and the whole mix of logic and emotion that roils about when a premed considers medical school is simplistic and kind of arrogant. I had amazing stats, and I still felt like it was a crapshoot, and that I might not get the results I wanted. Everybody around me was saying I was going to get in everywhere, but I didn't believe them. Was it logical? No! Was it pathological or indicative of some character/personality defect as some have suggested? No! Did that self-doubt hold me back? Not at all. I rocked my interviews and ultimately was fortunate enough to garner multiple acceptances at top 10 schools. Let's step back and realize that summarily passing judgement on others, when we haven't even scratched the surface of who they are is silly and counter-productive.

I think there's a level of 'over-humility' which often accompanies brilliant individuals that have never been in a surrounding like harvard and hadn't ever expected to go to harvard that end up with a feeling of 'omg am I even supposed to be here?'. No level of achievement takes away from that if you come from a background where you are a gigantic outlier. It's very different when you're brought up rolling in a circle of peers where everyone has parents that went to the ivy league etc. I have a feeling that this might be what you're hinting at and where the OP *might* fit in.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

OP, I think some of the backlash from people on this forum (filled with already brilliant people) simply cannot believe that you thought you did not have a chance at getting into medical school. Somebody with both a near perfect GPA and MCAT that also graduated from the best school in the world isn't kidding anyone when he/she doubts her/his own chances. A student of that caliber should recognize their own accomplishments. False humility can be as offputting as arrogance. Think about the people (>99.9% of all students) that have inferior stats. When you say you didn't think you had a chance, it comes off as fake to everybody else. I'm not trying to be mean, it's just the truth. It's OK to know you're a rockstar, but you have to find somewhere in the middle of gloating and "self-doubt".

The people I know who the OP reminds me of, it's not actually "fake". It's legitimate self-doubt to the point of absurdity.

I'm talking about the junior AOA top of the class student who literally has panic attacks before exams and then spends two days afterwards feeling sick and not being able to eat until they get their grade back because they actually think they failed, then get a 98%. Repeat every 6 weeks for the first two years of med school. The person who spent two blocks of step 1 sobbing in the prometric testing center yet still got above a 260.

 

[onceawolverine]

I don't mean to come across as a jerk, but I think that a detailed character analysis of @MathGirl25 is perhaps unwarranted and any conclusions being drawn are likely invalid, given that none of us know her beyond a few sentences online. Everyone is inferring quite a lot about her, given that none of us know much of anything about her story except that she was, at one point, worried about not getting into medical school.* Not only are we being unfair to her by trying to analyze the ins-and-outs of her character based on next-to-no information, but we are probably only wasting our own time in the process. (If, for example, someone tried to pick apart and criticize the inner workings of my psyche on SDN, I would probably read it, laugh, and keep on keeping on until a "real life" person who actually knows me brought it up).

It's kind of off-topic too, as this thread is intended to help @MathGirl25 pick between 4 awesome options. I wonder if she is any closer to a decision, after all the feedback on the first page?

*Side note, I think it's perfectly normal to worry about not getting into medical school regardless of their stats. I thought my MCAT score was gonna be 29-33 forsure (despite much higher px averages) because I thought the real thing was super difficult. I didn't get the scores back until mid-June, after already submitting my app to AMCAS, and there were definitely days between test-date and score-release-date where I wondered if I should be prepping for a re-take. These aren't monumental flaws in personality (until they begin to really and truly affect your day-to-day functioning and interpersonal interactions), and they shouldn't be dissected and treated as such. @MathGirl25, hopefully NOW you know that you were an exceptional applicant, and this confidence boost will encourage you to enter medical school with the same kind of work-ethic and tenacity that got you where you are today.

EDIT: As a good friend of mine says, "Worry until the worrying stops helping you. Then worry about why you're worrying so much and then stop worrying for god's sake."

 

[radiologyology]

By no means was I attempting to be offensive, although my post could definitely be seen as crass. Regardless, you are an amazing applicant as shown by your results. I think this thread has served its purpose and now it is up to you to make the decision!

 

[breakintheroof]

Everyone is inferring quite a lot about her, given that none of us know much of anything about her story except that she was, at one point, worried about not getting into medical school.

You're right, wolverine. (And @QuantumFlame.) I was the one who originally brought what she wrote on her MDApps into the conversation. At the time I thought it would help clarify the situation, but in retrospect, it didn't.

 

[URMD]

At the very least, mathgirl can take away from this thread not only the school she should choose, but the thick skin one must develop to survive in the medical atmosphere.

 

[ridethecliche]

Also, if she really wants to go to a different school, she has more than enough to leverage offers between institutions. They all want her.

 

[MathGirl25]

Hi,

Since this thread is now just people insulting each other, I've removed my posts. Please continue to insult me elsewhere 🙂

Thanks

 

[FFH]

slight thread update, for posterity (?)

Wash U: Wash U's second look, and it's almost off the table. I couldn't imagine a more soul-crushing weekend. At age 24, I was:
a) the oldest student at second look
b) finding out that there are absolutely, completely, no resources/support for NON-21-year-olds. Every question I asked about non-traditional student life was met with confusion, and comments like "oh, we've never dealt with that situation before" or "let me check with someone and get back to you" (no one ever gets back to me).
c) NO resources for non-science undergrad majors - because there are no non-science majors. Hopkins lets people self-select into sections based on their level of comfort with the material; the lowest comfort level receives personal tutoring from the instructor.
d) I'm really worried about my lack of science background - according to my admitted student background, there are only 1 or 2 other admitted students so far who didn't major in biology, chemistry, or biochemistry. How can I possibly keep up with them in class? I know that Bio/Chem make up the majority at every school, but not 100%!! I need other people to work with - can't make it through med school totally alone.
e) I don't fit in socially at all. They spent the whole weekend barhopping to undergrad bars, talking about the "awesome hookup culture" and how 60/100 of their medical school class are in relationships with each other. Plus I had to help at least one student every evening who was too drunk to take care of themselves. Um, didn't we all grow out of that phase freshman year of college? Please.
f) Kind of a minor point, but this just speaks to the whole culture there. Some girl made a comment like "ugh, no one in medical school is old enough to be married" and everyone else was like "omg yeah we know that's crazy" and I'm sitting over there quietly trying not to smack her. This is the culture I hate. The culture of judgement. The culture of assumption that EVERYONE at Wash U is the same just because 93% of them are the same. UGH WASH U WHY ARE YOU SO HOMOGENEOUS.

Hopkins:
called their financial aid office and their admissions office pleading with them to listen to reason (i.e. other schools that ONLY give need based aid are giving me DOUBLE what you are, Hopkins!! Hopkins, my EFC is $0.00, why are you charging my family $28k??!) and they were RUDE RUDE RUDE. Valerie Mazza said, (direct quote) "Hopkins does not have the same financial resources as other schools (aside: TOTAL BS), so if it is not possible for you to attend here based on financial reasons, you should not come. Sorry you can't join us next year." I hung up quickly so she wouldn't hear me crying - I couldn't even lay out the rest of my argument because I was too insulted and sad. I have no idea why people like that go into admissions/other professions that require them to interact with people.

Summary:
- If I go to Wash U, I will be a friendless dinosaur who is at the bottom of every class. No possibility for AOA, etc. But have $0 debt.
- If I go to Hopkins, I may actually get a good education, probably do well in my class due to the presence of other non-science majors, but be around $150k in debt. Or more. Since my financial package isn't guaranteed and they probably will get even greedier next year as soon as I don't have the option to go anywhere else.

Result:
- run away and join circus, become elephant doctor (?)

As a 30 year old super non-trad at WashU second look, I say that you could not be more misinformed regarding WashU. Particularly a). I'll come back to this later, have some important tasks to perform.

 

[Copernicium]

Summary:
- If I go to Wash U, I will be a friendless dinosaur who is at the bottom of every class. No possibility for AOA, etc. But have $0 debt.

Not to discredit the "feel" you got from WashU second look, but it seems like you are being overly dramatic and making a lot of wild assumptions about them...and if you are able to score 40+ on the MCAT, I'm pretty sure you will do fine academically wherever you go

 

[Willy38]

slight thread update, for posterity (?)

Wash U: Wash U's second look, and it's almost off the table. I couldn't imagine a more soul-crushing weekend. At age 24, I was:

a) the oldest student at second look
b) finding out that there are absolutely, completely, no resources/support for NON-21-year-olds. Every question I asked about non-traditional student life was met with confusion, and comments like "oh, we've never dealt with that situation before" or "let me check with someone and get back to you" (no one ever gets back to me).
c) NO resources for non-science undergrad majors - because there are no non-science majors. Hopkins lets people self-select into sections based on their level of comfort with the material; the lowest comfort level receives personal tutoring from the instructor.
d) I'm really worried about my lack of science background - according to my admitted student background, there are only 1 or 2 other admitted students so far who didn't major in biology, chemistry, or biochemistry. How can I possibly keep up with them in class? I know that Bio/Chem make up the majority at every school, but not 100%!! I need other people to work with - can't make it through med school totally alone.
e) I don't fit in socially at all. They spent the whole weekend barhopping to undergrad bars, talking about the "awesome hookup culture" and how 60/100 of their medical school class are in relationships with each other. Plus I had to help at least one student every evening who was too drunk to take care of themselves. Um, didn't we all grow out of that phase freshman year of college? Please.
f) Kind of a minor point, but this just speaks to the whole culture there. Some girl made a comment like "ugh, no one in medical school is old enough to be married" and everyone else was like "omg yeah we know that's crazy" and I'm sitting over there quietly trying not to smack her. This is the culture I hate. The culture of judgement. The culture of assumption that EVERYONE at Wash U is the same just because 93% of them are the same. UGH WASH U WHY ARE YOU SO HOMOGENEOUS.

Hopkins:
called their financial aid office and their admissions office pleading with them to listen to reason (i.e. other schools that ONLY give need based aid are giving me DOUBLE what you are, Hopkins!! Hopkins, my EFC is $0.00, why are you charging my family $28k??!) and they were RUDE RUDE RUDE. Valerie Mazza said, (direct quote) "Hopkins does not have the same financial resources as other schools (aside: TOTAL BS), so if it is not possible for you to attend here based on financial reasons, you should not come. Sorry you can't join us next year." I hung up quickly so she wouldn't hear me crying - I couldn't even lay out the rest of my argument because I was too insulted and sad. I have no idea why people like that go into admissions/other professions that require them to interact with people.

Summary:
- If I go to Wash U, I will be a friendless dinosaur who is at the bottom of every class. No possibility for AOA, etc. But have $0 debt.
- If I go to Hopkins, I may actually get a good education, probably do well in my class due to the presence of other non-science majors, but be around $150k in debt. Or more. Since my financial package isn't guaranteed and they probably will get even greedier next year as soon as I don't have the option to go anywhere else.

Result:
- run away and join circus, become elephant doctor (?)

I'm currently considering WashU and I'm 24 with a significant other ! So maybe if we end up there we can be friends lol We can form our own old people club !

Also, 150k in debt is really not that bad considering many students take out 250k+ for school. I wasn't able to make it to second look so I'm glad you posted. I don't know what to tell you. If you really like Hopkins (despite your rude encounter on the phone) then I would go there. On the other hand, I do think you would end up enjoying washU more than you presently think. I'm sure the vast majority of people kind of splinter off in their close friend groups while still remaining friendly toward everyone else.

Sorry you had that experience, but take comfort in the fact that I (an elderly 24 year-old) and some others may be there with you!

 

[breakintheroof]

Wow, @MathGirl25, I'm sorry that you feel this way about WashU (and the Hopkins financial aid office). Your experience is your own, but I doubt that your perspective is shared by many people in St. Louis.

You have very bleak expectations for what would happen at WashU. Given your track record at predicting how your application cycle would go, I urge you to entirely discount those expectations.

 

[Lawpy]

As a 30 year old super non-trad at WashU second look, I say that you could not be more misinformed regarding WashU. Particularly a). I'll come back to this later, have some important tasks to perform.

Not to discredit the "feel" you got from WashU second look, but it seems like you are being overly dramatic and making a lot of wild assumptions about them...and if you are able to score 40+ on the MCAT, I'm pretty sure you will do fine academically wherever you go

I agree. I fail to see what's wrong with WashU in this thread, but for some reason, OP is somehow incredibly resistant and melodramatic...

It also doesn't help when she denounced Hopkins for being unprofessional. But still, I have no idea what is wrong with WashU and why it's being demeaned...

 

[Australopithekus]

slight thread update, for posterity (?)

Wash U: Wash U's second look, and it's almost off the table. I couldn't imagine a more soul-crushing weekend. At age 24, I was:

a) the oldest student at second look
b) finding out that there are absolutely, completely, no resources/support for NON-21-year-olds. Every question I asked about non-traditional student life was met with confusion, and comments like "oh, we've never dealt with that situation before" or "let me check with someone and get back to you" (no one ever gets back to me).
c) NO resources for non-science undergrad majors - because there are no non-science majors. Hopkins lets people self-select into sections based on their level of comfort with the material; the lowest comfort level receives personal tutoring from the instructor.
d) I'm really worried about my lack of science background - according to my admitted student background, there are only 1 or 2 other admitted students so far who didn't major in biology, chemistry, or biochemistry. How can I possibly keep up with them in class? I know that Bio/Chem make up the majority at every school, but not 100%!! I need other people to work with - can't make it through med school totally alone.
e) I don't fit in socially at all. They spent the whole weekend barhopping to undergrad bars, talking about the "awesome hookup culture" and how 60/100 of their medical school class are in relationships with each other. Plus I had to help at least one student every evening who was too drunk to take care of themselves. Um, didn't we all grow out of that phase freshman year of college? Please.
f) Kind of a minor point, but this just speaks to the whole culture there. Some girl made a comment like "ugh, no one in medical school is old enough to be married" and everyone else was like "omg yeah we know that's crazy" and I'm sitting over there quietly trying not to smack her. This is the culture I hate. The culture of judgement. The culture of assumption that EVERYONE at Wash U is the same just because 93% of them are the same. UGH WASH U WHY ARE YOU SO HOMOGENEOUS.

Hopkins:
called their financial aid office and their admissions office pleading with them to listen to reason (i.e. other schools that ONLY give need based aid are giving me DOUBLE what you are, Hopkins!! Hopkins, my EFC is $0.00, why are you charging my family $28k??!) and they were RUDE RUDE RUDE. Valerie Mazza said, (direct quote) "Hopkins does not have the same financial resources as other schools (aside: TOTAL BS), so if it is not possible for you to attend here based on financial reasons, you should not come. Sorry you can't join us next year." I hung up quickly so she wouldn't hear me crying - I couldn't even lay out the rest of my argument because I was too insulted and sad. I have no idea why people like that go into admissions/other professions that require them to interact with people.

Summary:
- If I go to Wash U, I will be a friendless dinosaur who is at the bottom of every class. No possibility for AOA, etc. But have $0 debt.
- If I go to Hopkins, I may actually get a good education, probably do well in my class due to the presence of other non-science majors, but be around $150k in debt. Or more. Since my financial package isn't guaranteed and they probably will get even greedier next year as soon as I don't have the option to go anywhere else.

Result:
- run away and join circus, become elephant doctor (?)

You're being ridiculous.

- WashU may be homogeneous, but I refuse to believe that nobody there starts at age 24. You're the average age of matriculation at most schools.
- 150k debt from Hopkins really isn't bad at all. You'll be fine if you prefer that option. Denying your request for more scholarship money "just because" isn't rude.
- Michigan offers equivalent resources to WashU/Hopkins, and you have 140k in scholarship money there? Pick Michigan!

The world doesn't owe you anything. You have amazing options that nearly everyone here, myself included, would gladly trade for.

 

[Enginerd2016]

I'm sorry but 24 is not old. Wow.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

age 24, I was:

a) the oldest student at second look
b) finding out that there are absolutely, completely, no resources/support for NON-21-year-olds. Every question I asked about non-traditional student life was met with confusion, and comments like "oh, we've never dealt with that situation before" or "let me check with someone and get back to you" (no one ever gets back to me).

https://www.aamc.org/download/321468/data/factstable6.pdf

Mean age of applicants at time of matriculation: Women: 24. Men: 24