Harvard Longwood

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Just a quick question-I noticed that in Scutwork all of the Mass programs are listed except for Longwood. Does anyone know why? I just wanted to get some current feedback from current residents or alum. Pgy-1-Pgy4 would be great. I hope this post doesnt cause a battle among the different Harvard programs. I'm just looking for some good feedback.
Thanks😀

I know there are posts on this topic but I was hoping for some current feedback.

 

[cleareyedguy]

I'd assume the lack of a listing reflects scutwork, not longwood.

 

[Doc Samson]

I hope this post doesnt cause a battle among the different Harvard programs.

Now that'd be cool - a 4-way gang fight between the residencies (Longwood would win hands down BTW).

Longwood wasn't listed on Scutwork even back during my application cycle - couldn't tell you why.

 

[beebs]

Sorry to push this thread in this direction, but hopefully it'll still be a useful discussion for people interested in Longwood.

I'm a bit stuck deciding between Longwood vs. UCLA as my #1.

Anyone have any thoughts about either of these two?

 

[beebs]

Well, Longwood's gonna hurt.

Why's that? Because they get worked?

 

[hotchicalica]

Well, Longwood's gonna hurt.

why do you say that?

 

[RaistlinMajere]

I know little about UCLA's program, so I can't help much there. Except for the obvious, would you prefer to live in Boston or LA?

Regarding Longwood's program. The impression that I get is that you work hard, but it is interesting, clinical work in a supportive environment. The residents and faculty are not only highly competent physicians, but also terrific people (at least the ones who I met). The call schedule is front end loaded with greater frequency in the first two years.

I thought it was an outstanding residency program.

 

[Doc Samson]

why do you say that?

My position as a Longwood alum and shameless advocate for the program is pretty well known around here - happy to answer any specific questions. To clear up bullethead's ominously erased postings though - I think he's implying that long wood would be more painful than short wood.

 

[dianamd]

Yeah, I am not sure about Longwood either. I thought it was a great program - very impressed on my interview day. If it was not in Boston, I would probably not think twice about ranking it as one of my top few (am not a huge fan of Beantown). And even being in Boston, I am still contemplating ranking it very highly.

I heard that the residents used to work a lot, but that it is being or has been scaled back -- eg the call schedule, which the program director said is now on par with all the other "top institutions" or at least will be by next year.

As for UCLA, my impression is that the residents there work a ton -- more than most programs I saw -- but most residents are happy, so it is OK. You have to think, take the best program on the entire west coast (arguably, whatever), and you can find 15 or so people who are willing to work incredibly hard What amazes me is that they can work post-call until 2-3pm, and then drive 30-60+ minutes home. Yes, they are happy (most are happy, especially in PGY1-2, all acknowledged that there are some PGY3-4's who are not so pleased), but they don't deny how hard they work.

Lately I have been wondering about whether that "Harvard name" will really help me down the road -- thereby raising Longwood in my rank list. Surely it can't hurt.

Both Longwood and UCLA are terrific programs, so I would suggest that you think more about the other factors -- LA/Boston, family/friends location, etc.

 

[CarleneM]

As for UCLA, my impression is that the residents there work a ton -- more than most programs I saw -- but most residents are happy, so it is OK. You have to think, take the best program on the entire west coast (arguably, whatever), and you can find 15 or so people who are willing to work their butts off. What amazes me is that they can work post-call until 2-3pm, and then drive 30-60+ minutes home. Yes, they are happy (most are happy, especially in PGY1-2), but they don't deny how hard they work.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they have a provision for napping (?4 or 5 hours) during overnight psych calls at UCLA? Also, did the residents say they typically stay until 2-3 pm post-call?!?! That seems a bit much on a regular basis (even during my hardest 3rd year clerkships at MGH, a resident staying that late was a once in a while thing and was generally frowned upon, violates work hour restrictions, etc). I got the impression that UCLA had easier hours than Longwood, MGH, Columbia, etc but maybe I just talked to the wrong residents.

 

[BobA]

I can't speak for UCLA, but the thing that bothered me about Longwood call was that it was rough for 2 years.

 

[dianamd]

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they have a provision for napping (?4 or 5 hours) during overnight psych calls at UCLA? Also, did the residents say they typically stay until 2-3 pm post-call?!?!

Yes, you're right about the "protected nap time" for residents! I forgot. However, if they are slammed, which is defined as a set number of admissions, the person who is sleeping is woken up.

When I did a rotation there, the post-call resident would regularly stay until 2pm or later -- it was a PGY2 and inpatient unit. Yes, it's crazy -- I could not believe it.

As for the nap time, my limited experience was about 50:50, where the person would either get an OK night and sleep some, or the resident on call would be up pretty much for the whole night.

That said, the generally laid-back west coast vibe reigns supreme. Even when people are slammed, working all night, people just aren't as intense or mean as they seem to be on the east coast.

Come PGY3 and especially PGY4, the hours seem easier than Longwood, Columbia, MGH or whatever. Before that, I would say that they work harder. And the commute is the kicker -- unless you're living in Westwood -- that I would be afraid of crashing my car post-call!

 

[dianamd]

I can't speak for UCLA, but the thing that bothered me about Longwood call was that it was rough for 2 years.

Yeah, it seems like most of the programs I am considering have a rough call for the first two years. Some have a pretty rough call in the PGY3 year. Of course, it's all relative, nothing like medicine, surgery, etc.

However, it's in contrast to my impression before I learned about programs, which is that call dropped off dramatically after PGY1.

I would think some programs have an insane call schedule -- such as NYU. But, at least for NYU, they have night float almost entirely, so you are never really doing q3-q4 call. Much better...

 

[CarleneM]

When I did a rotation there, the post-call resident would regularly stay until 2pm or later -- it was a PGY2 and inpatient unit. Yes, it's crazy -- I could not believe it.

Wow, ok, seems to violate work hours about number of consecutive hours in the hospital unless they get in relatively late on an on call day. What time did they have to get in on an on-call day?? A lot of the residents were saying they go surfing and whatnot post-call so I guess I really got a different perspective....I tend to not to care too much about the call schedules, since this is psych and its all relative, but coming in around, say 7am, and regularly staying until 2 or 3 pm the next day, is pretty bad, even by non-psych standards and violates the 30 hour limit. Maybe it was early in the rotation or with really inefficient residents???

Thanks for the firsthand perspective! Its so hard to get a real sense of schedules unless you've actually lived them. And I imagine residents on recruitment days tend to paint a rosier picture than the reality....

 

[masterofmonkeys]

Of all the work hour restrictions, it's been my experience and hearsay that the 30 hour rule is the most consistently violated of all of them, across all specialties. *shrug*

 

[billypilgrim37]

Of all the work hour restrictions, it's been my experience and hearsay that the 30 hour rule is the most consistently violated of all of them, across all specialties. *shrug*

That "10 hour off between shifts" thing gets hit pretty hard too, especially with night float systems. I've heard rumors that's going to get extended to a 12 hour requirement, which you could imagine could really kill some medicine and surgery programs (and really cut into psych moonlighting).

 

[masterofmonkeys]

these *****ers better leave my moonlighting alone. How the heck do you pay 120k debt at 6.8% interest down if you can't moonlight?

Oh and I realize that's a tiny debt burden compared to most of yall. I'm still going to whine about it, given that we're all dealing with outrageous fixed interest rates (given the current prime rate), and that the cost of tuition has so ridiculously outpaced inflation even for those of us going to state schools.

 

[dianamd]

Wow, ok, seems to violate work hours about number of consecutive hours in the hospital unless they get in relatively late on an on call day. What time did they have to get in on an on-call day?? A lot of the residents were saying they go surfing and whatnot post-call so I guess I really got a different perspective....I tend to not to care too much about the call schedules, since this is psych and its all relative, but coming in around, say 7am, and regularly staying until 2 or 3 pm the next day, is pretty bad, even by non-psych standards and violates the 30 hour limit. Maybe it was early in the rotation or with really inefficient residents???

Thanks for the firsthand perspective! Its so hard to get a real sense of schedules unless you've actually lived them. And I imagine residents on recruitment days tend to paint a rosier picture than the reality....

Also wanted to say, there are certain aspects of UCLA that balance out the long post-call days -- which of course, could have been just my PGY2's on my unit.

For example, on days with grand rounds and lecture, they residents don't have to write notes on their patients -- the attendings do it. They round in the morning, but then the attendings are responsible after that.

Things like that, or the "protected nap time," etc., as well as the potential for a ridiculously laid-back PGY4 -- these make the overall UCLA experience more laid back than a lot of places such as Columbia, MGH, etc etc.

So, when thinking about the intensity of the program, I think the 30 hour limit is just one of many factors... If it were not for the location, which I have mixed feelings about, there is no doubt that UCLA would be my #1. Good luck! 😉