Harvard NP MSTP vs. Harvard HST MSTP

[totalcommand]

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Hey guys,

I looking at the Harvard secondary once again, and am still wavering over whether or not to apply to HST.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the purpose of HST is to prepare you for biomedical research right? And, the purpose of an MSTP is similarly to prepare you for research and get you a PhD. To me, this sounds redundant a little.

I find the NP curriculum more appealing - examining specific patient cases through problem based learning. Since MSTP is going to prepare me and further my research goals, I'm not sure if I would be missing anything by not going the HST MSTP route.

Is there something I'm missing in the difference between NP MSTP and HST MSTP?

Am I just doubling my chances of getting into Harvard by applying to both programs (not that I would really care to...I think its slightly overrated).

Thanks.

PS, in case this helps - I would not attend Harvard HST by itself over an MSTP program. However, I probably would attend HST over a regular MD program.

 

[solitude]

I remember reading somewhere that a very small percentage of the MSTP students are in NP rather than HST (it was something like a newsletter where only one of the incoming students was NP and all the rest were HST). I am only speculating, but it seems possible to me that the admissions committee preferentially admits applicants that intend to enter HST rather than those that intend to enter NP.

Hey guys,

I looking at the Harvard secondary once again, and am still wavering over whether or not to apply to HST.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the purpose of HST is to prepare you for biomedical research right? And, the purpose of an MSTP is similarly to prepare you for research and get you a PhD. To me, this sounds redundant a little.

I find the NP curriculum more appealing - examining specific patient cases through problem based learning. Since MSTP is going to prepare me and further my research goals, I'm not sure if I would be missing anything by not going the HST MSTP route.

Is there something I'm missing in the difference between NP MSTP and HST MSTP?

Am I just doubling my chances of getting into Harvard by applying to both programs (not that I would really care to...I think its slightly overrated).

Thanks.

PS, in case this helps - I would not attend Harvard HST by itself over an MSTP program. However, I probably would attend HST over a regular MD program.

 

[dillanger]

Alright so heres the deal with Hahvard MSTP...

The programs are pretty disjointed with little crosstalk. HST admissions, NP admissions, and MSTP admissions are all done separately with separate interviews (and sometimes different interview days/dates) for each. So applying to more than one program WILL increase you "chances" of getting in, but chances are if you could get into one you have a pretty good shot at getting into another. In terms of numbers, they interview 100-120 students for MSTP spots and probably give around 15 acceptances for 12 spots. (Getting one of those spots is, in the words of a faculty member there, akin to teaching yourself to do robotic surgery while riding a unicycle.) The program is small (they don't put any extra money into the MSTP like some other schools do to add additional spots). I'm not sure how many HST interviews, but they have around 30 spots and probably accept a good number more. People applying for HST frequently are choosing between Harvard-HST and some other funded MSTP. NP has many more spots.

So about the HST program. It is very intense (LOTS of classtime and problem sets) and is pretty heavy on math (hence the MIT connection). Much less flexible compared to NP program. By far and away most MD-PhD's at Harvard are in the HST program and many (maybe even most) of the HST's who did not get MSTP funding end up doing a PhD anyway (with the potential for NRSA funding for the last two years of med school). So even though it is supposed to be a research program on its own right, many/most students end up doing a separate PhD anyways. New pathway, on the other hand, is much more flexible, a lot less class time, much less intense, etc etc etc.

So personally, if I were to do an MD-PhD there I'd want to do NP-MSTP just because why stress yourself out needlessly in the HST program when you are going to get the same benefit by doing the PhD...just my opinion.

Finally, if you interview there get ready for the regular MD interview questions. Having interviewed at a number of MSTP's and gotten asked the typical MSTP questions (tell me about your research, why do you want a dual degree, etc...) it threw me off when I almost had to pretend that I wasn't trying to get a PhD for an hour during the interview and answer questions about things that don't really matter as much it seemed.

 

[solitude]

Great post 👍

Alright so heres the deal with Hahvard MSTP...

The programs are pretty disjointed with little crosstalk. HST admissions, NP admissions, and MSTP admissions are all done separately with separate interviews (and sometimes different interview days/dates) for each. So applying to more than one program WILL increase you "chances" of getting in, but chances are if you could get into one you have a pretty good shot at getting into another. In terms of numbers, they interview 100-120 students for MSTP spots and probably give around 15 acceptances for 12 spots. (Getting one of those spots is, in the words of a faculty member there, akin to teaching yourself to do robotic surgery while riding a unicycle.) The program is small (they don't put any extra money into the MSTP like some other schools do to add additional spots). I'm not sure how many HST interviews, but they have around 30 spots and probably accept a good number more. People applying for HST frequently are choosing between Harvard-HST and some other funded MSTP. NP has many more spots.

So about the HST program. It is very intense (LOTS of classtime and problem sets) and is pretty heavy on math (hence the MIT connection). Much less flexible compared to NP program. By far and away most MD-PhD's at Harvard are in the HST program and many (maybe even most) of the HST's who did not get MSTP funding end up doing a PhD anyway (with the potential for NRSA funding for the last two years of med school). So even though it is supposed to be a research program on its own right, many/most students end up doing a separate PhD anyways. New pathway, on the other hand, is much more flexible, a lot less class time, much less intense, etc etc etc.

So personally, if I were to do an MD-PhD there I'd want to do NP-MSTP just because why stress yourself out needlessly in the HST program when you are going to get the same benefit by doing the PhD...just my opinion.

Finally, if you interview there get ready for the regular MD interview questions. Having interviewed at a number of MSTP's and gotten asked the typical MSTP questions (tell me about your research, why do you want a dual degree, etc...) it threw me off when I almost had to pretend that I wasn't trying to get a PhD for an hour during the interview and answer questions about things that don't really matter as much it seemed.

 

[totalcommand]

Alright so heres the deal with Hahvard MSTP...

The programs are pretty disjointed with little crosstalk. HST admissions, NP admissions, and MSTP admissions are all done separately with separate interviews (and sometimes different interview days/dates) for each. So applying to more than one program WILL increase you "chances" of getting in, but chances are if you could get into one you have a pretty good shot at getting into another. In terms of numbers, they interview 100-120 students for MSTP spots and probably give around 15 acceptances for 12 spots. (Getting one of those spots is, in the words of a faculty member there, akin to teaching yourself to do robotic surgery while riding a unicycle.) The program is small (they don't put any extra money into the MSTP like some other schools do to add additional spots). I'm not sure how many HST interviews, but they have around 30 spots and probably accept a good number more. People applying for HST frequently are choosing between Harvard-HST and some other funded MSTP. NP has many more spots.

So about the HST program. It is very intense (LOTS of classtime and problem sets) and is pretty heavy on math (hence the MIT connection). Much less flexible compared to NP program. By far and away most MD-PhD's at Harvard are in the HST program and many (maybe even most) of the HST's who did not get MSTP funding end up doing a PhD anyway (with the potential for NRSA funding for the last two years of med school). So even though it is supposed to be a research program on its own right, many/most students end up doing a separate PhD anyways. New pathway, on the other hand, is much more flexible, a lot less class time, much less intense, etc etc etc.

So personally, if I were to do an MD-PhD there I'd want to do NP-MSTP just because why stress yourself out needlessly in the HST program when you are going to get the same benefit by doing the PhD...just my opinion.

Finally, if you interview there get ready for the regular MD interview questions. Having interviewed at a number of MSTP's and gotten asked the typical MSTP questions (tell me about your research, why do you want a dual degree, etc...) it threw me off when I almost had to pretend that I wasn't trying to get a PhD for an hour during the interview and answer questions about things that don't really matter as much it seemed.

Thanks for the great post.

Your thinking is exactly the thinking that I have - which makes me wonder why most MSTPs are in HST and not NP. But anyhoo, I think I'm going to only apply to NP and not HST.

 

[SeventhSon]

the reason I applied to HST is because some people are turned off by the complete lack of anything quantitative in medical education. As an engineering undergrad, numbers are my bread and butter. It's a good opportunity for people with such a background, who are likely to ask different questions in the context of research.

It's just an interest thing... congrats if you can get into either NP or HST... i got rejected post-itnerview by both 😛

 

[ChyLn]

Just like to stick in a bit of a shout-out for HST.

Quite simply, it's awesome. You have a very small, tight-knit group of 30 ppl who are very, very passionate about science, medicine, and the science of medicine. It really is an unparalleled group... I gave up numerous very highly ranked funded-MSTP positions to join the HST group as an MD-only student.

The reason, I feel, why many mudphuds are HST is because they really love science, and the NP is perceived by even some of the NP students as pretty 'fluffy'. HST doesn't prepare you any less for becoming a clinical doctor either, we've been having case studies and patient interactions, we have friday mornings off for if you want to shadow a doctor or attend a surgery (a couple of my HST friends have already attended an open-heart surgery offered to us by one of the surgeons who gave a lecture in our anatomy class). And we get anatomy for a full semester where NP gets it for only six months.

True, we don't have real, planned, and structured patient interaction until 2nd semester, 2nd year, but you have plenty of time and opportunities to do it extracurricularly, and many HSTers do.

Be glad to answer any additional questions. Just wanted to make sure HST was getting a fair view 🙂

And to reply to some of Dillanger's posts:

HST IS very intense. On the other hand, the lectures are awesome, the faculty that we meet are awesome, and you come out of it really knowing your stuff. You're in class a lot, but it's time well spent.

I won't say anything about the math intensity, as it's only first semester, but so far, there's really not a lot of math at all involved. The MIT connection is not so much for the math or engineering, but for the research faculty that it gives you access to (you can choose from any research group in the harvard-MIT system), not to mention that you get access to all of the MIT facilities as well... such as the gym 😛

40% of HST students eventually graduate with a PhD. But then again, considering that a class of 30 students has 10 MD/PhDs. That's only about 4 or 5 extras a year.... which is not as frightening as dillanger's "many/most students end up doing a PhD"

And in my interviewing experiences, I did not have to pretend about not doing a PhD at all, we were all very open about the fact that I was a mudphud applicant 🙂

Hope this answers some questions!

 

[solitude]

Another great post, thanks! Are you planning to apply to the MSTP second-cycle, to pursue a PhD without MSTP funding, or to not pursue a PhD? Also, how are you paying for the MD portions of the degree (scholarship, family money, loans, etc.)?

Thanks again for the great post.

Just like to stick in a bit of a shout-out for HST.

Quite simply, it's awesome. You have a very small, tight-knit group of 30 ppl who are very, very passionate about science, medicine, and the science of medicine. It really is an unparalleled group... I gave up numerous very highly ranked funded-MSTP positions to join the HST group as an MD-only student.

The reason, I feel, why many mudphuds are HST is because they really love science, and the NP is perceived by even some of the NP students as pretty 'fluffy'. HST doesn't prepare you any less for becoming a clinical doctor either, we've been having case studies and patient interactions, we have friday mornings off for if you want to shadow a doctor or attend a surgery (a couple of my HST friends have already attended an open-heart surgery offered to us by one of the surgeons who gave a lecture in our anatomy class). And we get anatomy for a full semester where NP gets it for only six months.

True, we don't have real, planned, and structured patient interaction until 2nd semester, 2nd year, but you have plenty of time and opportunities to do it extracurricularly, and many HSTers do.

Be glad to answer any additional questions. Just wanted to make sure HST was getting a fair view 🙂

And to reply to some of Dillanger's posts:

HST IS very intense. On the other hand, the lectures are awesome, the faculty that we meet are awesome, and you come out of it really knowing your stuff. You're in class a lot, but it's time well spent.

I won't say anything about the math intensity, as it's only first semester, but so far, there's really not a lot of math at all involved. The MIT connection is not so much for the math or engineering, but for the research faculty that it gives you access to (you can choose from any research group in the harvard-MIT system), not to mention that you get access to all of the MIT facilities as well... such as the gym 😛

40% of HST students eventually graduate with a PhD. But then again, considering that a class of 30 students has 10 MD/PhDs. That's only about 4 or 5 extras a year.... which is not as frightening as dillanger's "many/most students end up doing a PhD"

And in my interviewing experiences, I did not have to pretend about not doing a PhD at all, we were all very open about the fact that I was a mudphud applicant 🙂

Hope this answers some questions!

 

[ChyLn]

Solitude:

I'm still intending to apply for second cycle funding for my PhD. For the first two years, it actually is working out fairly well, my sister just entered college so between the two of us, my parents actually have to contribute fairly little to my medical school education. I'm also taking out the standard unit loan from HMS.

I should also mention, that as an HST student, you can do a funded RA-ship starting your second semester of your first year. This means that next semester, while working in a lab, I'll be getting approximately 16k ( a rise from 12k) before in economic benefit. Last year, this meant that for the semester you would get 8k in tuition remission and 4k in stipend. A really good deal! (HST-only benefit 🙂)

 

[solitude]

Solitude:

I'm still intending to apply for second cycle funding for my PhD. For the first two years, it actually is working out fairly well, my sister just entered college so between the two of us, my parents actually have to contribute fairly little to my medical school education. I'm also taking out the standard unit loan from HMS.

I should also mention, that as an HST student, you can do a funded RA-ship starting your second semester of your first year. This means that next semester, while working in a lab, I'll be getting approximately 16k ( a rise from 12k) before in economic benefit. Last year, this meant that for the semester you would get 8k in tuition remission and 4k in stipend. A really good deal! (HST-only benefit 🙂)

Sounds like you are doing well financially. I vaguely recall there being another thread about this a few months ago, but what made you decide to choose HST over so many other awesome acceptances, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[dillanger]

Thanks for the insider view,.

I wasn't intending to be frightening about the many/most comment -- just wanted to point out that a lot of people end up doing PhD through HST, which makes a lot of sense actually since those are the people who are most interested in science in the first place.

Also about the interviewing, I was refering to my NP interview which was all about volunteering, social aspects of medicine, health-care etc, and didnt ask one question about research or anything related to it even though it was my biggest extracurricular. That could have well been my specific interviewer, however, and may not be a tastament to all the NP interviews

And to reply to some of Dillanger's posts:

HST IS very intense. On the other hand, the lectures are awesome, the faculty that we meet are awesome, and you come out of it really knowing your stuff. You're in class a lot, but it's time well spent.

I won't say anything about the math intensity, as it's only first semester, but so far, there's really not a lot of math at all involved. The MIT connection is not so much for the math or engineering, but for the research faculty that it gives you access to (you can choose from any research group in the harvard-MIT system), not to mention that you get access to all of the MIT facilities as well... such as the gym 😛

40% of HST students eventually graduate with a PhD. But then again, considering that a class of 30 students has 10 MD/PhDs. That's only about 4 or 5 extras a year.... which is not as frightening as dillanger's "many/most students end up doing a PhD"

And in my interviewing experiences, I did not have to pretend about not doing a PhD at all, we were all very open about the fact that I was a mudphud applicant 🙂

Hope this answers some questions!

 

[ChyLn]

Sounds like you are doing well financially. I vaguely recall there being another thread about this a few months ago, but what made you decide to choose HST over so many other awesome acceptances, if you don't mind me asking?

The people, the people, the people. The kids at HST are really, really unparalled. 30 people is just the right size for me, small enough that everyone knows everyone very well, big enough that there are a lot of different kinds of people. They're crazy about science and about having fun. I don't know. It was a hard decision for me at the time, but I haven't regretted it in the slightest. 🙂

 

[solitude]

The people, the people, the people. The kids at HST are really, really unparalled. 30 people is just the right size for me, small enough that everyone knows everyone very well, big enough that there are a lot of different kinds of people. They're crazy about science and about having fun. I don't know. It was a hard decision for me at the time, but I haven't regretted it in the slightest. 🙂

Well, thanks for the input! Hopefully I won't have such a tortuous decision come next year. Thanks again.

 

[CaipirinhaQuinho]

I heard all the MuddPhudds who care about having a big H on their transcript ditch their chosen paths and go to HST. Can you clarify Chyln?

haha, just kidding. hope everything is good C.

-mg

 

[solitude]

The people, the people, the people. The kids at HST are really, really unparalled. 30 people is just the right size for me, small enough that everyone knows everyone very well, big enough that there are a lot of different kinds of people. They're crazy about science and about having fun. I don't know. It was a hard decision for me at the time, but I haven't regretted it in the slightest. 🙂

Oh one question I thought of: do you live in the dorm? What is that like? Do many first-years live there?

I guess that's more than one question, sorry 🙂.

 

[ChyLn]

Oh one question I thought of: do you live in the dorm? What is that like? Do many first-years live there?

I guess that's more than one question, sorry 🙂.

Hey solitude,

I actually don't live in the dorms, although most of the first year class does. I managed to find myself a beauitful apartment in nearby brookline where I pay less rent than I would in Vandy for a whole ton of a lot more space. It's a bit of a walk (~15 minutes), but ideally located and really not all that far, I'm really happy with it.

To answer your question, I'd say probably 70-80% of the first year class live on campus... and then the most of them move off after the first year. Personally, I was just ready to have my own place, own kitchen, etc etc. It's nice to have my own space and campus is not far enough away that I feel like I'm disconnected.

As far as Vandy goes, the housing is pretty on par as far as medical schools go. Definitely better than places like Hopkins, Columbia, or... maybe WashU? Although I don't really rmemeber the rooms in WashU. The main push towards staying on campus is the proximity to campus and the fact that its kind of hard to find an apartment in boston without putting a siginificant amount of time down.

Ok. Long answer 🙂

 

[solitude]

Thanks!

Hey solitude,

I actually don't live in the dorms, although most of the first year class does. I managed to find myself a beauitful apartment in nearby brookline where I pay less rent than I would in Vandy for a whole ton of a lot more space. It's a bit of a walk (~15 minutes), but ideally located and really not all that far, I'm really happy with it.

To answer your question, I'd say probably 70-80% of the first year class live on campus... and then the most of them move off after the first year. Personally, I was just ready to have my own place, own kitchen, etc etc. It's nice to have my own space and campus is not far enough away that I feel like I'm disconnected.

As far as Vandy goes, the housing is pretty on par as far as medical schools go. Definitely better than places like Hopkins, Columbia, or... maybe WashU? Although I don't really rmemeber the rooms in WashU. The main push towards staying on campus is the proximity to campus and the fact that its kind of hard to find an apartment in boston without putting a siginificant amount of time down.

Ok. Long answer 🙂