Harvard Pharmacy School

[Scikotic]

Does anyone know why Harvard doesn't offer a pharmacy program? Was just curious...

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[Praziquantel86]

Does anyone know why Harvard doesn't offer a pharmacy program? Was just curious...

Why would they?

Columbia used to have a pharmacy school, but that closed many years ago.

 

[applejuju]

Harvard is too good for pharm school lol. They only do med school.

Come to think of it, none of the high end private schools offer pharmacy.

 

[inquirer89]

Someone said a while back that UPenn was going to start a pharmacy program, but I saw no evidence to prove it.

 

[SHC1984]

Why would they?

Columbia used to have a pharmacy school, but that closed many years ago.

Columbia offers social work...isn't that like ten notches lower then pharmacy? lol...

 

[bacillus1]

Someone said a while back that UPenn was going to start a pharmacy program, but I saw no evidence to prove it.

Yeah searched around on google and nothing yet, just going by ppl that claim to know that they just started building it (so not hiring anyone yet to run the program or anything like that).

 

[Pharmpills]

It largely has to do with the high tuition they charge & the pay scale for their grads bc if you think about it if someone pays 200,000 in tuition at harvard when they graduate they have the same pharmD degree & will most likely be paid the same as someone who paid 60,000 for their 4 years. Therefore, their is not a huge advantage in going to IVY league schools for pharmacy bc an employer isn't going to pay you 200,000 just bc u went to harvard.

With other degrees such as medicine & business the employer can pay the employee a large pay check based on where they graduate from. The only way they would prob. offer it is if pharmacy had a specialty that's rare & requires training at the best schools and pays over 200,000 or so.

 

[Scikotic]

Yea why isn't pharmacy a part of the "high-end" colleges? I think pharmacy is good enough, it's a respectable, reputable, and challenging profession. There must be some reason it's not associated with Harvard and other top-notch schools... anyone know??

So, what does everyone consider the "BEST" pharmacy school in the nation, or internationally?? According to "The Annals of Pharmacotherapy" which is based on perceptions, funding, and publications - the trophy goes to UCSF (University of California, San Francisco College of Pharmacy), what does everyone else think?

 

[SHC1984]

It largely has to do with the high tuition they charge & the pay scale for their grads bc if you think about it if someone pays 200,000 in tuition at harvard when they graduate they have the same pharmD degree & will most likely be paid the same as someone who paid 60,000 for their 4 years. Therefore, their is not a huge advantage in going to IVY league schools for pharmacy bc an employer isn't going to pay you 200,000 just bc u went to harvard.

With other degrees such as medicine & business the employer can pay the employee a large pay check based on where they graduate from. The only way they would prob. offer it is if pharmacy had a specialty that's rare & requires training at the best schools and pays over 200,000 or so.

I think I would have to agree with you here. Dental and Medical school at Columbia is ~53k for tuition and if you include the living expenses the total cost is around 300,000!!! There is no way in hell you can pay that off if you make only 100,000 a year...(unless you live with your parents until you are 50! ) Penn is EVEN more expensive then Columbia...Harvard is more reasonable compare to Columbia and Penn, but still around 250,000 if you include living expenses!

But my question is...Columbia has a social work program...how can social workers pay that kind of tuition? don't they make only 30,000 a year?

 

[SHC1984]

Yea why isn't pharmacy a part of the "high-end" colleges? I think pharmacy is good enough, it's a respectable, reputable, and challenging profession. There must be some reason it's not associated with Harvard and other top-notch schools... anyone know??

So, what does everyone consider the "BEST" pharmacy school in the nation, or internationally?? According to "The Annals of Pharmacotherapy" which is based on perceptions, funding, and publications - the trophy goes to UCSF (University of California, San Francisco College of Pharmacy), what does everyone else think?

UCSF and UNC are proberly the best pharmacy schools...and pharmacy is challenging and very respectable in my opinion as well...however the notion of working at Walgreens, CVS, and Target for the rest of your life makes society look down on the profession...people equate retail workers to high school dropouts...but I don't care I like what I am doing now (working at Walgreens) and do not give a **** on what other people think.

 

[Scikotic]

It largely has to do with the high tuition they charge & the pay scale for their grads bc if you think about it if someone pays 200,000 in tuition at harvard when they graduate they have the same pharmD degree & will most likely be paid the same as someone who paid 60,000 for their 4 years. Therefore, their is not a huge advantage in going to IVY league schools for pharmacy bc an employer isn't going to pay you 200,000 just bc u went to harvard.

With other degrees such as medicine & business the employer can pay the employee a large pay check based on where they graduate from. The only way they would prob. offer it is if pharmacy had a specialty that's rare & requires training at the best schools and pays over 200,000 or so.

I agree with your reasoning, everything always seems to boil down to the money... There must be people out there who are interested in an IVY league education in pharmacy, and for those there should at least be the option to pursue one, right? Maybe there will be in the future when specialized pharmacy education may be necessary, for example medicinal molecular nanobiotechnology advancements will require specialized pharmacists to dispense "nano-medicines" - according to recent articles and journals I've read (pretty cool stuff!), these jobs will offer $200K+ to the most qualified. Unfortunately these technologies will not be in effect to the masses for many many years, but hey it's something to look forward to.

 

[bluesickle]

Yeah searched around on google and nothing yet, just going by ppl that claim to know that they just started building it (so not hiring anyone yet to run the program or anything like that).

I asked a pharmacist who is well connected in the Philadelphia area and this person told me that the UPenn rumor is false. Didn't UPenn try to buy USP's pharmacy school at one point?

 

[fuCl]

Why would anyone want to go to Harvard for pharmacy? I'm sure all the extra money would really pay off when you're sitting at a chain making the same as anyone else.

 

[JamesL1585]

Columbia offers social work...isn't that like ten notches lower then pharmacy? lol...

????? Why would you undermine someone elses profession? You're a pre-pharm, isn't that lower than a social worker program?

 

[SHC1984]

????? Why would you undermine someone elses profession? You're a pre-pharm, isn't that lower than a social worker program?

Last time I check pharmacist make 120K a year and social workers make 30K a year.

 

[Praziquantel86]

Last time I check pharmacist make 120K a year and social workers make 30K a year.

And clearly, money is the end-all and be-all of social worth. I hope you use that argument at a school interview, after they ask you why you picked pharmacy.

Grow up.

 

[SHC1984]

And clearly, money is the end-all and be-all of social worth. I hope you use that argument at a school interview, after they ask you why you picked pharmacy.

Grow up.

Obviously you can't read or do math for that matter... The post is about why Pharmacy isn't in expensive, presigtious schools. Like for example Columbia has a social work program and not pharmacy but pharmacists make more then social workers...so it makes no sense why Columbia has social work and not pharmacy.
Can you understand this and do the math or does someone else have you draw you a picture? thumbdown

 

[caramel334]

Ive actually been wondering abt this for a while. Why dont any higher end schools offer pharmacy? someone told me a while ago that Georgetown was considering it, but i havent heard anything to actually prove it.
The whole retail is looked down upon thing makes sense but not everyone with a pharmD goes into retail. And it actually would make sense for them to start pharm schools at Ivys bc there are some jobs in the pharmaceutical industry that are harder to get than others. It would be easier to get a job at as a pharmacist at the CVS then it would be to get a job at the NIH....

 

[JamesL1585]

Obviously you can't read or do math for that matter... The post is about why Pharmacy isn't in expensive, presigtious schools. Like for example Columbia has a social work program and not pharmacy but pharmacists make more then social workers...so it makes no sense why Columbia has social work and not pharmacy.
Can you understand this and do the math or does someone else have you draw you a picture? thumbdown

Wow, you're a genious. I can already tell you're going to be an amazing pharmacist. God bless you.

 

[Praziquantel86]

Obviously you can't read or do math for that matter... The post is about why Pharmacy isn't in expensive, presigtious schools. Like for example Columbia has a social work program and not pharmacy but pharmacists make more then social workers...so it makes no sense why Columbia has social work and not pharmacy.
Can you understand this and do the math or does someone else have you draw you a picture? thumbdown

Obviously I understand math well enough to have gotten into pharmacy school, so I have that going for me.

If you would like to know why Columbia has a school of Social Work and not pharmacy, here is a brief rundown: the ACPE shut down Columbia School of Pharmacy in 1976, due to having outdated facilities and curricula, with no plan in place to update them. Columbia's pharmacy school suffered from low attendance and poor profitability, and it was decided that they shouldn't try to keep a sinking ship afloat.

The School of Social Work, on the other hand, is the oldest in the nation. It is also more profitable than many full universities, with an endowment over $40 million.

So, tell me what that adds up to.

 

[JamesL1585]

Obviously I understand math well enough to have gotten into pharmacy school, so I have that going for me.

If you would like to know why Columbia has a school of Social Work and not pharmacy, here is a brief rundown: the ACPE shut down Columbia School of Pharmacy in 1976, due to having outdated facilities and curricula, with no plan in place to update them. Columbia's pharmacy school suffered from low attendance and poor profitability, and it was decided that they shouldn't try to keep a sinking ship afloat.

The School of Social Work, on the other hand, is the oldest in the nation. It is also more profitable than many full universities, with an endowment over $40 million.

So, tell me what that adds up to.

You go girl/boy!!! LoL

 

[fuCl]

SHC1984:

I call that getting ownded

 

[SHC1984]

Obviously I understand math well enough to have gotten into pharmacy school, so I have that going for me.

If you would like to know why Columbia has a school of Social Work and not pharmacy, here is a brief rundown: the ACPE shut down Columbia School of Pharmacy in 1976, due to having outdated facilities and curricula, with no plan in place to update them. Columbia's pharmacy school suffered from low attendance and poor profitability, and it was decided that they shouldn't try to keep a sinking ship afloat.

The School of Social Work, on the other hand, is the oldest in the nation. It is also more profitable than many full universities, with an endowment over $40 million.

So, tell me what that adds up to.

I got into dental schools (one being Columbia, the other being Penn...) so your point?

 

[bluesickle]

I got into dental schools (one being Columbia, the other being Penn...) so your point?

Not to be rude but you sound like a broken record with your dental school references.

 

[firecoins]

strong teeth and good drugs. I love it.

 

[Praziquantel86]

I got into dental schools (one being Columbia, the other being Penn...) so your point?

And you're now back at square one, applying to professional school. So the way I see it, you're either a failure or a quitter. Pharmacy schools don't like either.

 

[Jdario86]

Wow.

 

[fhx06]

Now, now. Let's all hold hands and sing.

 

[SHC1984]

And you're now back at square one, applying to professional school. So the way I see it, you're either a failure or a quitter. Pharmacy schools don't like either.

Oh God, Oh no...if only I can be as smart as you Mr. Pharmacy man!

 

[Praziquantel86]

Oh God, Oh no...if only I can be as smart as you Mr. Pharmacy man!

My point is that if you're going to try to make yourself look better than someone else, at least have something to back it up. Having once been in Dental school but not being able to hack it isn't the greatest ammunition.

 

[Quiksilver]

back in 82 I used to be able to throw a pig skin about a 1/4 mile.


How much you wanna bet I can throw a football over them mountains
Man if coach would have put me in the 4th quarter, man we'd be state champions.no doubt, no doubt in my mind I would have gone pro, making millions in a mansion. Id be in a hot tub with my soul mate. Kip, I'd reckon you know alot about cyberspace, you ever cross over something like time travel?

 

[Sparda29]

back in 82 I used to be able to throw a pig skin about a 1/4 mile.


How much you wanna bet I can throw a football over them mountains
Man if coach would have put me in the 4th quarter, man we'd be state champions.no doubt, no doubt in my mind I would have gone pro, making millions in a mansion. Id be in a hot tub with my soul mate. Kip, I'd reckon you know alot about cyberspace, you ever cross over something like time travel?

Yeah, almost the same thing for me with Varsity tennis. I played doubles back then, and I was good but not really great at it, but whenever I was paired up with either of these 2 guys on my team, we kicked ass, we had a nice synergistic effect. (I'll refer to these two guys as Player A and Player B.)

However, when Player A and Player B, all hell broke loose and despite how great they were, they had an antagonistic effect.

The coach decided that it would be better to have these 2 play together in the playoffs, and bench me. We ended up losing.

And that my friends is how antibiotics work.

 

[JamesL1585]

Oh God, Oh no...if only I can be as smart as you Mr. Pharmacy man!

What's dental school have to do with anything?? Quit while you're ahead... save yourself the rest of this embarrassment.

 

[SHC1984]

My point is that if you're going to try to make yourself look better than someone else, at least have something to back it up. Having once been in Dental school but not being able to hack it isn't the greatest ammunition.

I quit dental school. Not sure if I want pharm yet although I did apply... You were the one bragging about being in pharmacy school... My point was most people on here are ACCEPTED to pharm school, dental school or med school so there is really nothing for you to be bragging about.

 

[fhx06]

I dunno... you pretty much gave the impression you look down on social workers by your comment. Social work is pretty damn important to those not fortunate enough to be well off, so I'd show a bit more respect. It's not always about how much money people make or what professional they can get into.

 

[Aggieanthony]

I stumbled across this forum on SDN while I was meandering about, pondering the meaning of life.

My eyes bugged out of my head when I read this,

"Last time I check pharmacist make 120K a year and social workers make 30K a year."

This thread has already digressed to the point that would be expected of something on an XboX Live forum or something, not a discussion between adults (right?) about life dealing legal drugs as a Pharmacist.

As a graduate student in Psychology working on my doctorate, and having completed internships alongside of, and working with, social workers (MSW/LCSW), I can tell you that the reason that their salary is so "low" by your standards is that they're paid by state government almost exclusively, in terms of "social workers." This is where the notoriously erroneous salary bird comes flying around the heads of students everywhere who gasp, "Oh heavens, 30 grand a year, they must be poor!" Well, to a large extent, the "social workers" you're thinking about either don't have their state licensure yet (LCSW) and are still working on their mondo-pile of 3000+ hours necessary for state licensure (During which time, you're paid a pittance) or they don't even have MSW degrees.

I know in California, "social worker I", for instance in Los Angeles County, does not even require a Master's in Social Work nor its licensed component, the LCSW.

But all of that is moot. Judging the worth of a program based on the perceived salary received by graduates is a gross error on your part, SHC1984. My wager is that the "1984" in your name denotes when you were born, because you're certainly acting like an early-20something know-it-all, when really you know nothing of which you speak.

The TL;DR version of this post is this: You can't say that a Master's in Social Work is a "lesser" degree than a Pharm.D merely on the basis of salary earning potential, because that is completely an apples vs. oranges debate. Pharmacists don't work for the state, they work for corporations/chains/franchises and the like, and hence they're entitled to a larger premium. There are many LCSWs who own private practices in West Hollywood and their earnings would blow your mind, yet they're not counted on the BLS. Why, who knows? Historically, anyone working in the "public health services" sector averages a wage much lower than anyone working in the private sector. You will find folks with Ph.D.s and licensure as clinical psychologists working at VA Hospitals and the like all across the country, making 1/3 less than they would in private practice in most cases, simply because they enjoy helping people. Is a clinical psychologist who graduated top of her class from Yale, publishes semi-annually in her field of discipline, and works for a "meager" salary in comparison to a Pharmacist's salary any less of a professional than the Pharmacist, just because she makes $55,000 a year instead of the $115,000 she'd likely make in private practice? (Ignoring all the business expenses incumbent upon a owner of a private practice for the sake of argument).

Imagine if, some day in the near future, America was placed under a universalized/nationalized health care system (Like Canada), where all the Pharmacists are paid the same, "meager" wage that a Social Worker is paid (Slightly higher perhaps, due to the elevated nature of the suffix in their name). Would that discredit Pharmacy as a legitimate, prestigious profession? Does making enough money to buy a Ferrari in cash really determine a career/profession's worth in terms of scholastic "worth"?

SHC1984, it appears as though you have a case of being spoiled pretty bad by your circumstances. More than that, I cannot say. Perhaps you're the medical profession's version of a "troll", out to elicit peoples' reactions by making ridiculously stupid and oftentimes erroneous judgments and statements based on impartial data.

Praziquantel86 attempted to enlighten you as to why there is a social work program at Columbia but not a Pharm. program, yet you chose to ignore his or her helpful post and single out a statement which was not at all disparaging to you, and you turned it into an ad hominem directed toward Praziquantel.

To wit:

"Obviously I understand math well enough to have gotten into pharmacy school, so I have that going for me." Replying to your quip,

"Obviously you can't read or do math for that matter"

Your statement is a complete falsehood, a sarcastic "burn" that seems appropriate for a 17-year-old kid to belt out at a peer, not something I'd hope a future doctor would consider a valid argumentation technique.

I mean, really.

I'll leave your forums now, for I do not want to soil your pre-pharmacy dreams with my human services rhetoric, SHC1984.

Oh, as an aside, Princeton University doesn't have a law school. I guess we can conclude, using your logic, that they don't think law is a reputable business, nor do lawyers make any money at all. Certainly not compared to pharmacists!

 

[Spock87]

I stumbled across this forum on SDN while I was meandering about, pondering the meaning of life.

My eyes bugged out of my head when I read this,

"Last time I check pharmacist make 120K a year and social workers make 30K a year."

This thread has already digressed to the point that would be expected of something on an XboX Live forum or something, not a discussion between adults (right?) about life dealing legal drugs as a Pharmacist.

As a graduate student in Psychology working on my doctorate, and having completed internships alongside of, and working with, social workers (MSW/LCSW), I can tell you that the reason that their salary is so "low" by your standards is that they're paid by state government almost exclusively, in terms of "social workers." This is where the notoriously erroneous salary bird comes flying around the heads of students everywhere who gasp, "Oh heavens, 30 grand a year, they must be poor!" Well, to a large extent, the "social workers" you're thinking about either don't have their state licensure yet (LCSW) and are still working on their mondo-pile of 3000+ hours necessary for state licensure (During which time, you're paid a pittance) or they don't even have MSW degrees.

I know in California, "social worker I", for instance in Los Angeles County, does not even require a Master's in Social Work nor its licensed component, the LCSW.

But all of that is moot. Judging the worth of a program based on the perceived salary received by graduates is a gross error on your part, SHC1984. My wager is that the "1984" in your name denotes when you were born, because you're certainly acting like an early-20something know-it-all, when really you know nothing of which you speak.

The TL;DR version of this post is this: You can't say that a Master's in Social Work is a "lesser" degree than a Pharm.D merely on the basis of salary earning potential, because that is completely an apples vs. oranges debate. Pharmacists don't work for the state, they work for corporations/chains/franchises and the like, and hence they're entitled to a larger premium. There are many LCSWs who own private practices in West Hollywood and their earnings would blow your mind, yet they're not counted on the BLS. Why, who knows? Historically, anyone working in the "public health services" sector averages a wage much lower than anyone working in the private sector. You will find folks with Ph.D.s and licensure as clinical psychologists working at VA Hospitals and the like all across the country, making 1/3 less than they would in private practice in most cases, simply because they enjoy helping people. Is a clinical psychologist who graduated top of her class from Yale, publishes semi-annually in her field of discipline, and works for a "meager" salary in comparison to a Pharmacist's salary any less of a professional than the Pharmacist, just because she makes $55,000 a year instead of the $115,000 she'd likely make in private practice? (Ignoring all the business expenses incumbent upon a owner of a private practice for the sake of argument).

Imagine if, some day in the near future, America was placed under a universalized/nationalized health care system (Like Canada), where all the Pharmacists are paid the same, "meager" wage that a Social Worker is paid (Slightly higher perhaps, due to the elevated nature of the suffix in their name). Would that discredit Pharmacy as a legitimate, prestigious profession? Does making enough money to buy a Ferrari in cash really determine a career/profession's worth in terms of scholastic "worth"?

SHC1984, it appears as though you have a case of being spoiled pretty bad by your circumstances. More than that, I cannot say. Perhaps you're the medical profession's version of a "troll", out to elicit peoples' reactions by making ridiculously stupid and oftentimes erroneous judgments and statements based on impartial data.

Praziquantel86 attempted to enlighten you as to why there is a social work program at Columbia but not a Pharm. program, yet you chose to ignore his or her helpful post and single out a statement which was not at all disparaging to you, and you turned it into an ad hominem directed toward Praziquantel.

To wit:

"Obviously I understand math well enough to have gotten into pharmacy school, so I have that going for me." Replying to your quip,

"Obviously you can't read or do math for that matter"

Your statement is a complete falsehood, a sarcastic "burn" that seems appropriate for a 17-year-old kid to belt out at a peer, not something I'd hope a future doctor would consider a valid argumentation technique.

I mean, really.

I'll leave your forums now, for I do not want to soil your pre-pharmacy dreams with my human services rhetoric, SHC1984.

Oh, as an aside, Princeton University doesn't have a law school. I guess we can conclude, using your logic, that they don't think law is a reputable business, nor do lawyers make any money at all. Certainly not compared to pharmacists!

WhooHooo!

This thread is getting more and more hostile as it goes ...lol

 

[Jdario86]

I stumbled across this forum on SDN while I was meandering about, pondering the meaning of life.

My eyes bugged out of my head when I read this,

"Last time I check pharmacist make 120K a year and social workers make 30K a year."

This thread has already digressed to the point that would be expected of something on an XboX Live forum or something, not a discussion between adults (right?) about life dealing legal drugs as a Pharmacist.

As a graduate student in Psychology working on my doctorate, and having completed internships alongside of, and working with, social workers (MSW/LCSW), I can tell you that the reason that their salary is so "low" by your standards is that they're paid by state government almost exclusively, in terms of "social workers." This is where the notoriously erroneous salary bird comes flying around the heads of students everywhere who gasp, "Oh heavens, 30 grand a year, they must be poor!" Well, to a large extent, the "social workers" you're thinking about either don't have their state licensure yet (LCSW) and are still working on their mondo-pile of 3000+ hours necessary for state licensure (During which time, you're paid a pittance) or they don't even have MSW degrees.

I know in California, "social worker I", for instance in Los Angeles County, does not even require a Master's in Social Work nor its licensed component, the LCSW.

But all of that is moot. Judging the worth of a program based on the perceived salary received by graduates is a gross error on your part, SHC1984. My wager is that the "1984" in your name denotes when you were born, because you're certainly acting like an early-20something know-it-all, when really you know nothing of which you speak.

The TL;DR version of this post is this: You can't say that a Master's in Social Work is a "lesser" degree than a Pharm.D merely on the basis of salary earning potential, because that is completely an apples vs. oranges debate. Pharmacists don't work for the state, they work for corporations/chains/franchises and the like, and hence they're entitled to a larger premium. There are many LCSWs who own private practices in West Hollywood and their earnings would blow your mind, yet they're not counted on the BLS. Why, who knows? Historically, anyone working in the "public health services" sector averages a wage much lower than anyone working in the private sector. You will find folks with Ph.D.s and licensure as clinical psychologists working at VA Hospitals and the like all across the country, making 1/3 less than they would in private practice in most cases, simply because they enjoy helping people. Is a clinical psychologist who graduated top of her class from Yale, publishes semi-annually in her field of discipline, and works for a "meager" salary in comparison to a Pharmacist's salary any less of a professional than the Pharmacist, just because she makes $55,000 a year instead of the $115,000 she'd likely make in private practice? (Ignoring all the business expenses incumbent upon a owner of a private practice for the sake of argument).

Imagine if, some day in the near future, America was placed under a universalized/nationalized health care system (Like Canada), where all the Pharmacists are paid the same, "meager" wage that a Social Worker is paid (Slightly higher perhaps, due to the elevated nature of the suffix in their name). Would that discredit Pharmacy as a legitimate, prestigious profession? Does making enough money to buy a Ferrari in cash really determine a career/profession's worth in terms of scholastic "worth"?

SHC1984, it appears as though you have a case of being spoiled pretty bad by your circumstances. More than that, I cannot say. Perhaps you're the medical profession's version of a "troll", out to elicit peoples' reactions by making ridiculously stupid and oftentimes erroneous judgments and statements based on impartial data.

Praziquantel86 attempted to enlighten you as to why there is a social work program at Columbia but not a Pharm. program, yet you chose to ignore his or her helpful post and single out a statement which was not at all disparaging to you, and you turned it into an ad hominem directed toward Praziquantel.

To wit:

"Obviously I understand math well enough to have gotten into pharmacy school, so I have that going for me." Replying to your quip,

"Obviously you can't read or do math for that matter"

Your statement is a complete falsehood, a sarcastic "burn" that seems appropriate for a 17-year-old kid to belt out at a peer, not something I'd hope a future doctor would consider a valid argumentation technique.

I mean, really.

I'll leave your forums now, for I do not want to soil your pre-pharmacy dreams with my human services rhetoric, SHC1984.

Oh, as an aside, Princeton University doesn't have a law school. I guess we can conclude, using your logic, that they don't think law is a reputable business, nor do lawyers make any money at all. Certainly not compared to pharmacists!

I love psychologists.

To add what you were saying, I think princeton also does not have a med school.

To answer the OP's question. I think no one will ever find the answer to why Harvard does not have a pharmacy school and quite frankly, I don't really care.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

The pretentious ass Ivy schools don't have pharmacy programs because back in the day, they weren't seen as mechanisms of cutting edge research. Pharmacy has always been a practical profession, best served by big state schools. Hence, the big state schools are typically the oldest and best pharmacy schools. Just look at the schools that are recognized as the better schools...Ohio State, USC, Kentucky, North Car, South Car, West Virginia, Rutgers, Texas, Florida, Pitt, Michigan...and so on...big state schools. And why don't they start them up now? Because Harvard doesn't want to be shown up by schools that are on the top 10 party school lists. If they tried to start one up, their grads would be blown out of the water by the grads out of the established schools.

That's why.

And Canadian pharmacists make as much as the ones in the US...

 

[Aggieanthony]

And Canadian pharmacists make as much as the ones in the US...

A cursory glance into the Canadian version of our BLS shows a bit of a disparity.

A Pharmacist with 20 years of experience in Manitoba, Canada (The highest paying territory in Canada for pharmacists) earns $47.17CAD, which converts into $37.79USD. Now, taking a rough approximation of a 40 hour work-week, we can deduce the following:

37.79 * 40 = ~ $1,500 weekly
1500 * 4 = ~$6,000 monthly
6000 * 12 = ~$72,000 annually

$72,000 is a fairly easily established figure for a 20 year veteran pharmacist in Canada.

Now, let's take the figures from our American BLS, shall we?

The lowest 10th percent of all pharmacists in the U.S. earned $35.10, which does indeed seem to match up decently with Canada. However, the figure I quoted from Canada was for the upper 90th percentile of wage-earners in the field (20 years experience+). For a similar comparison, BLS statistics show $60.78 as the hourly figure for a upper 90th percentile wage-earner in the field. Clearly the disparity between $30 and $60 on an hourly basis is stark.

This is what the Canadian government, in its BLS report, as "Retail Pharmacy." In my ignorance of what exactly a non-retail Pharmacist is, I didn't go looking for it. But, such a thing doesn't seem to exist.

I'm not looking to pick a fight, but it's a well known fact (Even to anyone listening to NPR 1 or 2 days a week) that there exists a large brain-drain in Canada (i.e., no specialized Podiatrists in several territories) due to the terrible working conditions that universal health care places upon physicians of all flavors, not to mention the undue burden.

Salaries are not even remotely comparable.

But that's not the purpose of this thread. You did indeed explain very thoroughly why an Ivy League school such as Harvard does not have a Pharmacy program any more. It's as likely a guess as any, but until there is empirical data, it's just conjecture.


Sources:

http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Retail_Pharmacist/Salary
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency-converter
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Damn, you're pretentious as hell. You must have went to an Ivy School.

Anyway...yeah...hooray for fluctuating currencies. About 6 months ago, in some markets they were making as much, if not more in some cases, when the Canadian dollar valued high. And when the dollar is going to dive here in a few months, they will be making more again. The point I was trying to make was that its in the same BALLPARK, anyway. There is still private enterprise. Just one third party...not a single employer...you know. Hell, I'm only making $43/hr. I wish these magical average salaries would make their way to the rust belt...

 

[evilolive]

Damn, you're pretentious as hell. You must have went to an Ivy School.

I like the way he thinks though. It's not every day that everyone lists sources at the bottom of a paragraph.

 

[Transformer]

I dunno... you pretty much gave the impression you look down on social workers by your comment. Social work is pretty damn important to those not fortunate enough to be well off, so I'd show a bit more respect. It's not always about how much money people make or what professional they can get into.

Every time a patient with no pharmacy insurance gets discharged and brings a prescription to our hospital outpatient pharmacy, I refer them to our social workers. Our social workers put in the paper work necessary to cover the patient's medication for a few days until they get their medical or private insurance back again.

Let's not loose sight of the main focus here. And that is to work the best we can with every health care professional, both pharmacists, and social workers to bring the best care for patients who are under-served and
in need of our assistance.

In the end, the more money we have, the more we spent. I agree, money is important, but to a certain degree, money is not the determining factor for everything.

As health care and future health care professionals, we should feel extremely fortunate right now; especially during this economic down turn.

Back to the topic. No one knows for sure why Harvard does not have a pharmacy school. If you're dying to know why, try calling the school and ask them yourself. You will only get speculations on this thread....

 

[Quiksilver]

absolutely fantastic thread, although I would like to point out that pharmacists do not all work in chains; a majority yes, but this is where common public knowledge and stereotyping comes in on our side of things. Pharmacists are everywhere, the work in governmental positions. Hell my benefits, my position as an intern is thanks to New York State. I think where salaries are different is due to the recent sense of need for pharmacists because it was not too long ago that salaries were in the 60 to 70K range. There was a boom in Rx's, new drug therapies and treatments. Also a heightened need for highly specialized medical care has led for pharmacy to take off. Its getting to the point that the doctors can't keep up and make effective therapeutic choices without our advice.

but this issue is really not important, you should never pick a career based on salary. You pick it on what you enjoy to do. Hell both professions are a need in society and thats all to consider. Do what works for you

 

[fuCl]

absolutely fantastic thread, although I would like to point out that pharmacists do not all work in chains; a majority yes, but this is where common public knowledge and stereotyping comes in on our side of things. Pharmacists are everywhere, the work in governmental positions. Hell my benefits, my position as an intern is thanks to New York State. I think where salaries are different is due to the recent sense of need for pharmacists because it was not too long ago that salaries were in the 60 to 70K range. There was a boom in Rx's, new drug therapies and treatments. Also a heightened need for highly specialized medical care has led for pharmacy to take off. Its getting to the point that the doctors can't keep up and make effective therapeutic choices without our advice.

but this issue is really not important, you should never pick a career based on salary. You pick it on what you enjoy to do. Hell both professions are a need in society and thats all to consider. Do what works for you

Playing guitar in my mom's basement works for me.

Dreams don't pay bills- remember that quicksilver. You can act like that since you told your interviewers that your dream is to be a pharmacist- but c'mon- get real.

 

[SHC1984]

I stumbled across this forum on SDN while I was meandering about, pondering the meaning of life.

My eyes bugged out of my head when I read this,

"Last time I check pharmacist make 120K a year and social workers make 30K a year."

This thread has already digressed to the point that would be expected of something on an XboX Live forum or something, not a discussion between adults (right?) about life dealing legal drugs as a Pharmacist.

As a graduate student in Psychology working on my doctorate, and having completed internships alongside of, and working with, social workers (MSW/LCSW), I can tell you that the reason that their salary is so "low" by your standards is that they're paid by state government almost exclusively, in terms of "social workers." This is where the notoriously erroneous salary bird comes flying around the heads of students everywhere who gasp, "Oh heavens, 30 grand a year, they must be poor!" Well, to a large extent, the "social workers" you're thinking about either don't have their state licensure yet (LCSW) and are still working on their mondo-pile of 3000+ hours necessary for state licensure (During which time, you're paid a pittance) or they don't even have MSW degrees.

I know in California, "social worker I", for instance in Los Angeles County, does not even require a Master's in Social Work nor its licensed component, the LCSW.

But all of that is moot. Judging the worth of a program based on the perceived salary received by graduates is a gross error on your part, SHC1984. My wager is that the "1984" in your name denotes when you were born, because you're certainly acting like an early-20something know-it-all, when really you know nothing of which you speak.

The TL;DR version of this post is this: You can't say that a Master's in Social Work is a "lesser" degree than a Pharm.D merely on the basis of salary earning potential, because that is completely an apples vs. oranges debate. Pharmacists don't work for the state, they work for corporations/chains/franchises and the like, and hence they're entitled to a larger premium. There are many LCSWs who own private practices in West Hollywood and their earnings would blow your mind, yet they're not counted on the BLS. Why, who knows? Historically, anyone working in the "public health services" sector averages a wage much lower than anyone working in the private sector. You will find folks with Ph.D.s and licensure as clinical psychologists working at VA Hospitals and the like all across the country, making 1/3 less than they would in private practice in most cases, simply because they enjoy helping people. Is a clinical psychologist who graduated top of her class from Yale, publishes semi-annually in her field of discipline, and works for a "meager" salary in comparison to a Pharmacist's salary any less of a professional than the Pharmacist, just because she makes $55,000 a year instead of the $115,000 she'd likely make in private practice? (Ignoring all the business expenses incumbent upon a owner of a private practice for the sake of argument).

Imagine if, some day in the near future, America was placed under a universalized/nationalized health care system (Like Canada), where all the Pharmacists are paid the same, "meager" wage that a Social Worker is paid (Slightly higher perhaps, due to the elevated nature of the suffix in their name). Would that discredit Pharmacy as a legitimate, prestigious profession? Does making enough money to buy a Ferrari in cash really determine a career/profession's worth in terms of scholastic "worth"?

SHC1984, it appears as though you have a case of being spoiled pretty bad by your circumstances. More than that, I cannot say. Perhaps you're the medical profession's version of a "troll", out to elicit peoples' reactions by making ridiculously stupid and oftentimes erroneous judgments and statements based on impartial data.

Praziquantel86 attempted to enlighten you as to why there is a social work program at Columbia but not a Pharm. program, yet you chose to ignore his or her helpful post and single out a statement which was not at all disparaging to you, and you turned it into an ad hominem directed toward Praziquantel.

To wit:

"Obviously I understand math well enough to have gotten into pharmacy school, so I have that going for me." Replying to your quip,

"Obviously you can't read or do math for that matter"

Your statement is a complete falsehood, a sarcastic "burn" that seems appropriate for a 17-year-old kid to belt out at a peer, not something I'd hope a future doctor would consider a valid argumentation technique.

I mean, really.

I'll leave your forums now, for I do not want to soil your pre-pharmacy dreams with my human services rhetoric, SHC1984.

Oh, as an aside, Princeton University doesn't have a law school. I guess we can conclude, using your logic, that they don't think law is a reputable business, nor do lawyers make any money at all. Certainly not compared to pharmacists!

You must have a lot of time on your hands to type...but I don't have a lot of time to read, but thanks for the information. I am well aware that some psychiatrists make a lot of money that can "blow my mind" it actually doesn't blow my mind since my neighbor is a psychiatrist and I know how much money he makes....nice try though...

Anyhow, the point was that most pharmacists do not make enough money to pay back the 200K to 300K tuition that are charged by Ivy League schools. Thats why Harvard, Columbia, and Penn do NOT have pharmacy schools. However, I know Columbia has a social work program...it just didn't make much sense since social workers make less than pharmacists and will most likely struggle with a 300K dollar loan.

 

[Praziquantel86]

You must have a lot of time on your hands to type...but I don't have a lot of time to read, but thanks for the information. I am well aware that some psychiatrists make a lot of money that can "blow my mind" it actually doesn't blow my mind since my neighbor is a psychiatrist and I know how much money he makes....nice try though...

The above post actually referred to Social Workers making money that could "blow your mind." In addition, the poster is studying to obtain his/her Psychology doctorate, not Psychiatry. These are two related, yet separate, fields (as I'm sure you're well aware).

If you're going to respond to something, at least have the decency to read it.

 

[SHC1984]

Playing guitar in my mom's basement works for me.

Dreams don't pay bills- remember that quicksilver. You can act like that since you told your interviewers that your dream is to be a pharmacist- but c'mon- get real.

I totally agree, If I can do anything it would not be pharmacy...but since I can't get my #1 choice I will stick with pharmacy.

 

[Quiksilver]

Playing guitar in my mom's basement works for me.

Dreams don't pay bills- remember that quicksilver. You can act like that since you told your interviewers that your dream is to be a pharmacist- but c'mon- get real.

thanks douche, next time I want to talk to some idiot who trys to be cool and smooth on the internet, I know who to turn to. you must get all the e-chicks with these sweet 1 liners.

and judging by this outstanding contribution that you made to this thread, I would think that you didn't read what I said. Thanks for taking what I said out of context. Let me spell it out for the impared: there is nothing wrong with being a social worker even if they don't make money. They do what interests them. Therefore, you should not make a choice based on money. But I know that logic is so hard to understand based on your apparent level of intelligence

 

[JamesL1585]

I totally agree, If I can do anything it would not be pharmacy...but since I can't get my #1 choice I will stick with pharmacy.

I really hope you never get to be a pharmacist.

The above post actually referred to Social Workers making money that could "blow your mind." In addition, the poster is studying to obtain his/her Psychology doctorate, not Psychiatry. These are two related, yet separate, fields (as I'm sure you're well aware).

If you're going to respond to something, at least have the decency to read it.

You're the man/woman!!!!!

And can someone give me a high five for starting up this WELL NEEDED RIOT!!!?? Sometimes people need to be put in their place!! Go Psych D.!!!