Has admissions become markedly more competitive?

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efle

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Is admissions now more selective than 10, 20, 30 years ago? In general, for top 20, etc.

My curiosity piqued by RustBeltOnc who said it's no different now than 15 years ago, just aim for a high GPA and 35+ MCAT.

Thoughts ?
 

efle

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@efle, are you drunk?!
 

GrapesofRath

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Look at his logic from that thread though: new schools are opening up left and right that's why he disagrees on it being less competitive.

I listed all the schools that have opened up since 1981 in that thread. There are essentially 5 that don't have real IS biases. So basically it's an issue of saying "the stats are higher today" vs there are 5 new schools for all to apply to we didn't have back then so that balances out the stat increase. Let's just say that's not a very logical argument.

This is what happens when you get influenced by one opinion who hasn't been involved in admissions and hasn't applied to medical school in decades.
 

strictlyanon

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I think it is. The physicians I shadow claim that as long as you have >30 MCAT you can get in pretty much anywhere... If that was truly the case back when they applied (10-15 years ago), it certainly isn't true anymore.
 

RustBeltOnc

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Look at his logic from that thread though: new schools are opening up left and right that's why he disagrees on it being less competitive.

I listed all the schools that have opened up since 1981 in that thread. There are essentially 5 that don't have real IS biases.
But those states have a lot of people!
 
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WedgeDawg

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Me 2. But 4 realz.

But in all seriousness (and I was serious before), I think that competition increases each year because people prep more for exams, grade inflation relative to previous years is a thing (as in each successive class will have an easier time achieving the same grade as the previous class), and more people are applying and doing more "cool" things that increase their competitiveness.

So yes, competitiveness increases each year and that's just something that applicants have to account for and cope with. It's not the end of the world by any means.

And yes, I'm buzzing pretty hard right now.
 

altblue

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Me 2. But 4 realz.

But in all seriousness (and I was serious before), I think that competition increases each year because people prep more for exams, grade inflation relative to previous years is a thing (as in each successive class will have an easier time achieving the same grade as the previous class), and more people are applying and doing more "cool" things that increase their competitiveness.

So yes, competitiveness increases each year and that's just something that applicants have to account for and cope with. It's not the end of the world by any means.

And yes, I'm buzzing pretty hard right now.
t I feel like more people realize how safe yet reasonably lucrative medicine is now than they did 2-3 decades ago. And it doesn't have the jerk factor that I banking has or nerd factor engineering has, either. Sure the news doesn't like doctors, but on an personal level people respect them
 

WedgeDawg

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Yeah I'm just cynical, but I feel like more people realize how safe yet reasonably lucrative medicine is now than they did 2-3 decades ago. And it doesn't have the dingus factor that I banking has or nerd factor engineering has, either. Sure the news doesn't like doctors, but on an personal level people respect them
I honestly don't remember what I typed so I can't respond to you intelligently.

Medicine has a much higher barrier to entry than engineering and a somewhat higher barrier to entry than i-banking (particularly because i-banking is so pedigree-dependent). I agree that this might be why medicine might be attracting more applications than a decade or two ago, but we can't reasonably compare this information without knowing the motivation for medicine that applicants have. At this point, it's really all speculation.
 

altblue

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I honestly don't remember what I typed so I can't respond to you intelligently.

Medicine has a much higher barrier to entry than engineering and a somewhat higher barrier to entry than i-banking (particularly because i-banking is so pedigree-dependent). I agree that this might be why medicine might be attracting more applications than a decade or two ago, but we can't reasonably compare this information without knowing the motivation for medicine that applicants have. At this point, it's really all speculation.
Oh, I know that. I was just saying that medicine is more respected than the other two.

And I'm sure what I said are factors, although I've seen nothing to indicate a greater awareness of them is responsible for making the process more competitive.
 
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GrapesofRath

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But those states have a lot of people!
Well states with tons of people makes those schools even more competitive. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are saying those new schools must have large classes since they come from states with so many people. So let's look into that.

What you are trying to say is one of those things that sounds like a good theory but lets actually look at it

For baseline comparison the average MD class has say 140-150 incoming students. Here are the stats from all MD schools to open since 1981

UC Riverside: 50 matriculates
Central Michigan: 104 matriculates
Oakland: 100 matriculates
Western Michigan: 54 matriculates
Va Tech: 42 matriculates
Commonwealth: 100 matriculates
Quinnipac: 90 matriculates
Cooper Rowan: 72 matriculates
Texas Tech Foster: 104 matriculates
Florida Atlantic: 64 matriculates
Hofstra: 98 matriculates
FIU: 119 matriculates
UCF: 120 matriculates
Cleveland Clinic: Roughly 50
FSU: 120 matriculates

So as you can see not a single one of these schools has a 1st year class that is even the average size of MD first year classes. Like I said above it sounds like a great theory to say that "there are tons of medical schools opening up and they have big classes so that negates idea that it is more competitive due to the fact that stats are rising". But when you actually take a closer look at it we are talking about roughly 5 school over the last 35 years that have opened up that don't have strong IS bias and have a total of 400 matriculates a year. That's what you are going to go with; 400 extra matriculates accounting for the rising stats of these schools? And like this data proves, the schools with IS bias don't actually take all that many students at all; all are below average in terms of matriculates they take a year.

So if you want to go with the default "we'll agree to disagree" that's all well and good but at least realize what the facts are and realize the argument you are making when you say the rising stats aren't a big deal because there are more medical schools now.
 
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RustBeltOnc

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So if you want to go with the default "we'll agree to disagree" that's all well and good but at least realize what the facts are and realize the argument you are making when you say the rising stats aren't a big deal because there are more medical schools now.
As I stated on another thread, it's a matter of perspective. The "rising stats" look to me like different shades of meh. I know that my cohort contended with a 40 % acceptance rate, the acceptance rate was south of 40 % in the mid 70s, there are more schools now, many more DO schools with greater acceptance of this pathway, plus the continued relative success of SGU et al. Anecdotally, the youths I know that belong in medical school, matriculated; the folks that would have struggled in my era, struggle now.

The reason I am insistent on this is, I don't want any motivated, qualified people intimidated by the task at hand. Fill out that AMCAS, etc, the secondaries, and slay your interviews. You may get a pleasant surprise with respect to your ability to withstand this "competition."
 
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