Has anyone else seen this website?

[dcc777]

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Members do not see this ad.

http://100rsns.blogspot.com/

Yikes....talk about killing your confidence.

 

[LETSGONYR]

I was half expecting this to say "www.youtube.com" or something. 🙂.

I hadn't seen it... I'm already a bit disillusioned with school at the moment, but at this point I'm so close to being done that there's no stopping me. 🙂.

 

[roubs]

http://100rsns.blogspot.com/

Yikes....talk about killing your confidence.

The truth is somewhere in between an applicants lofty expectations and the sad bitter world of that blog.

 

[LETSGONYR]

The truth is somewhere in between an applicants lofty expectations and the sad bitter world of that blog.

Absolutely... also, I felt that a lot of their complaint/concerns didn't necessarily apply to me, since I am earning a clinical degree and a tenure-track faculty position is not my goal.

 

[roubs]

Absolutely... also, I felt that a lot of their complaint/concerns didn't necessarily apply to me, since I am earning a clinical degree and a tenure-track faculty position is not my goal.

Not going t-t either. Still, no one can take my tweed jacket away from me.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Ha! Wish that would have been written 12 years ago...

The points made by the blog are real concerns worth thinking about. Grad school isn't for everyone and it make sense to consider if it is the right path for you or not. I think I was so blindly committed to getting in and (later) completing my degree that I didn't bother to think about whether it was a good idea or not.

Don't let it get you down. Knowledge is power and there are many paths to a good life.

Dr. E

 

[Zebra F701]

It's anti-intellectual drivel, supported by a vapid reading of the history of higher education in America and Europe.

 

[cara susanna]

Academic jobs aren't as difficult for clinical psych people because the degree has so many applications outside of academia. It's not as competitive. I mean, not that it's easy, just remember that we're better off than, say, humanities PhDs.

 

[heshmonster]

Somehow I come across this blog everytime I feel "okay" with the future of clinical psych. and grad school. haha. Though it's not directly written about semi-professional programs like clinical psych, it does contiain a whole lot of good points about the paradoxical lure of grad school and academia. If I was in the humanities, I'd be terrified.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Somehow I come across this blog everytime I feel "okay" with the future of clinical psych. and grad school. haha. Though it's not directly written about semi-professional programs like clinical psych, it does contiain a whole lot of good points about the paradoxical lure of grad school and academia. If I was in the humanities, I'd be terrified.

My gut reaction is that we're closing in on the extreme end of a pendulum swing moment in academia, and that at some point things will shift back to being a bit more humane.

Then again, I've been accused of being overly-optimistic at times. Plus, even if this is a pendulum swing, there's no telling what the whole internet and distance-learning "revolutions" will end up doing to traditional academia.

What is interesting is that I really don't ever hear my non-psych friends complaining about their job markets. Obviously things might be different if they were posting on a forum rather than talking to me in person, but while they do mention how competitive things are, in general they aren't overly-morose about their employment prospects. Perhaps it has something to do with academia being the standard path for many of their disciplines, so they knew coming in what they would be facing on the way out...?

 

[wigflip]

I've known really strong candidates who bomb on the academic job market, year after year. What I've read on 100 Reasons resonates with what I've observed firsthand, particularly the shift from T-T positions to part timer instructors without security or benefits.

 

[Ollie123]

There's no question the job market is rough right now (though this is true for a great many jobs - not just academia). Psych seems better off than many - we have more folks going applied (not much of an option for many fields), more departments willing to hire us (we could easily fit in medicine, public health, neuroscience, etc. - not really true for someone with a degree in Russian Literature), there is far more money (and therefore jobs) in health sciences than many other areas, etc.

That said, I live by a general rule that blogs and bloggers are not to be trusted or taken seriously. I recommend it. Sure, there is often some truth to what they say. However, I wouldn't recommend placing much trust in so-called "legitimate" sources of information (i.e. professional news organizations, peer-reviewed articles), let alone every twit who can sign up for livejournal.

Work hard. Keep your options open and have a backup plan to being a tenured professor at Harvard (that doesn't include being a tenured professor at Stanford). Remember that a PhD in no way guarantees all your hopes and dreams will come true. Do your homework and have reasonable financial expectations. The vast majority of folks coming out of legit programs seem to do fine, even now.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I came from a middle of the road university-psyd program and did okay, so it isn't Harvard or Bust...but it'll take a concerted effort for anyone in training now. 20 years ago it was easier, but things aren't completely screwed...just mostly. 😉

 

[Pragma]

Academic jobs aren't as difficult for clinical psych people because the degree has so many applications outside of academia. It's not as competitive. I mean, not that it's easy, just remember that we're better off than, say, humanities PhDs.

Actually, I disagree with this (having just been on the clinical T-T job market).

You have to consider a few things. Sure, there may be more competition for positions in let's say, social or experimental psych, where there are fewer applied options and thus more competition than for clinical academic jobs.

But I would argue that the competition within clinical is tougher. Looks at admissions standards for getting into a clinical program. It's a lot easier to get admitted to a PhD program in another area. The people you are competing with present ridiculous competition (and you are not competing with FSPS PsyD program graduates).

I was successful at getting a T-T job, but it was with extreme difficulty. I didn't get interviews at some places, I interviewed at places and wasn't first choice, etc, etc. I also don't want to toot my own horn, but I was a publishing machine in graduate school and my later clinical years, and also did a ton of networking. I had no idea how hard it would be to land one of these positions, and I am grateful that I did. However, I also know there are a lot of really qualified candidates out there that did not, and don't, every year.

There is some truth to this blog. I'll be interested to see what academia looks like as the years go by.

 

[Rivi]

I came from a middle of the road university-psyd program and did okay, so it isn't Harvard or Bust...but it'll take a concerted effort for anyone in training now. 20 years ago it was easier, but things aren't completely screwed...just mostly. 😉

T4C are you referring to academia, practice, or all of the above? 🙁

 

[Pragma]

My gut reaction is that we're closing in on the extreme end of a pendulum swing moment in academia, and that at some point things will shift back to being a bit more humane.

What gives you that idea? I am just curious what the mechanism would be that makes things more humane. It seems like a supply/demand issue to me, and in this era of cost-cutting, I don't see much motivation for institutions to become more humane.

I would like there to be some stricter accreditation standards for freestanding universities. But there will be online courses no matter what. They DO make sense for some types of coursework (not clinical PhD, obviously). Every institution I have been associated with has some form of online education in the works.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

T4C are you referring to academia, practice, or all of the above? 🙁

Mostly practice...but it touches on academia (less TT + more adjunct) and also on administration positions.

Academia is always competitive. Pragma is right about a lot of applicants, but less competition for certain spots....but having more of everyone drives down salaries for generalist AND speciality positions. Solid academics may be relegated to Adjunct/Instructor positions that 8, 10, 12 years ago started at the Assistant level and had the option for TT. Academic researchers are still publish or perish, but funding is tighter. Clinical/Counseling is still better off then STEM because we can also practice, but it is still competitive. There are also Academic clinicians (both TT and non-TT), and they tend to be clinicians who also do research which may or may not be funded. These positions tend to pick from the cream of the crop because you get salaried and also can pull in money on the side...but everyone and their mother will apply for this type of position. This is what I do...but it is easy to put in 60+ hours if you don't/can't buy out time for research.

Jobs that are therapy heavy/only....they are the worst off because many employers fail to differentiate between training, and many psychologists fail to make a case for why we are worth the higher salary. There will be a line of therapists will to do the work for 30-40%+ less than a psychologist. HR departments often put out advertisements that are looking for an MA/MS/MSW/Psy.D./Ph.D. to fill the position. The training for each discipline and degree type will vary, but they don't care. I get really annoyed when I see these types of positions posted in a prof. publication or listserv, but we only have ourselves to blame for failing to protect our areas of expertise.

Administration positions are very hit and miss for doctorally-trained folks because the skillset is often more business/finance focused than clinical. An MA/MS/MSW/MSN with prior management experience can fill the position quite well, and often better than a Psy.D/Ph.D. because they pursued the experiences while many doctorally-trained clinicians actively avoid committees/panels/etc. The exceptions include researchers who act as a figure head and also as a researcher and clinical heads that have supervisory roles (often in smaller settings).

All is not lost, but students needs to understand the economics of the field...and they are not in the favor of doctorally-trained clinicians who want to do therapy. You can be successful despite the competition and reduced reimbursement rates, but it is far more work than 15-20yrs ago.

 

[cara susanna]

Well, I'm going to go cry now. I've accepted that I may have to adjunct. As long as my future husband makes some income and I'm not driving to five different colleges like the horror stories I've read, it's not a terrible future.

I also want a more teaching-heavy position and not necessarily one in a school with a graduate program, so I'm hoping that helps. :/

(See cara. See cara rationalize. Rationalize, cara, rationalize!)

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Well, I'm going to go cry now. I've accepted that I may have to adjunct.

From what I recall you attend a good program and have quality experiences, so you prob. have a pretty good shot at a clinical/teaching position.

 

[cara susanna]

Aww, thanks T4C. Just need to get that publication number up, which I am working on very diligently. 🙂

 

[paramour]

Actually, I disagree with this (having just been on the clinical T-T job market).

You have to consider a few things. Sure, there may be more competition for positions in let's say, social or experimental psych, where there are fewer applied options and thus more competition than for clinical academic jobs.

But I would argue that the competition within clinical is tougher. Looks at admissions standards for getting into a clinical program. It's a lot easier to get admitted to a PhD program in another area. The people you are competing with present ridiculous competition (and you are not competing with FSPS PsyD program graduates).

I was successful at getting a T-T job, but it was with extreme difficulty. I didn't get interviews at some places, I interviewed at places and wasn't first choice, etc, etc. I also don't want to toot my own horn, but I was a publishing machine in graduate school and my later clinical years, and also did a ton of networking. I had no idea how hard it would be to land one of these positions, and I am grateful that I did. However, I also know there are a lot of really qualified candidates out there that did not, and don't, every year.

There is some truth to this blog. I'll be interested to see what academia looks like as the years go by.

Only having seen things from year after year of torturous faculty searches in our program, I have to agree with Pragma here. We've had some absolutely outstanding applicants who were surprisingly not even invited to interview. Many of the folks who were invited, I recall thinking along the lines of "how in the hell did we get them to interview here?!" We've got a few things going in our favor, sure, but we are by no means a "top tier" program where I expect folks from "R1s" who have completed some purdy darned impressive internships, fellowships, postdocs, etc. (with matching publication records obviously) to be pounding on our doors.

Hell, there are still a few who laugh at the guy who signs his emails from Yale even though he's NOT THERE ANYMORE. He's got a bit of an ego on him...

We had a student just complete his internship applying for faculty positions (while he was on internship). Not sure how it was going to work out ... because he's still a student, competitive nature of the application cycle, so on & so forth. We had heard that there were some folks who recommended against this for various reasons (at least during internship year). He actually landed a position at Baylor. The guy is beyond amazing and a research/publication robot machine though; I'm not sure if he does anything but... Other students I know who want to go that route are actually taking at least the extra year to complete one or multiple post-docs or what have you before attempting their faculty applications (which seems to be more common?)...

 

[cara susanna]

Most of the faculty in my program didn't do post-docs and were able to land the job right out of internship. But we are in a geographically undesirable location, heh.

 

[Pragma]

It really depends on the postdoc. I did a clinical postdoc, but I actually was advised by my mentor and others not to do that if I really just wanted academia. They suggested it was just a waste of time and delaying the tenure clock.

But I was stubborn and wanted my license and explore the possibility of being at an AMC. A postdoc can get you some additional connections and help you to build your research ideas more effectively, so long as there are ample research opportunities. I did almost 100% clinical work at mine, and I don't have a lot of research to show for it from my actual postdoc site. I kept other research relationships going to keep my publication count up.

I can't imagine doing a very good job on a faculty interview during my internship year, but that may have more to do with my personality and age. I felt adequately prepared given some time to think it over during my postdoc.

 

[paramour]

Most of the faculty in my program didn't do post-docs and were able to land the job right out of internship. But we are in a geographically undesirable location, heh.

We're sort of low in desirability for geographical locations ourselves, although we are at least "nearby" a major city (~1.5-2 hours)--which they PUSH as a major selling point. 😀

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It really depends on the postdoc. I did a clinical postdoc, but I actually was advised by my mentor and others not to do that if I really just wanted academia. They suggested it was just a waste of time and delaying the tenure clock.

It definitely differs if you are only consider research positions, though if you are looking to do a mix of clinical and research, you may not be as quickly shut out of some of the top end places (if you apply for clinical positions w. the option or minority % time in research to start). I believe a clinician who has a moderate level of interest in also doing research looking at a clinical position is viewed more positively compared to a heavy researcher looking at research positions who reports also wanting to do a bit of clinical work. It is somewhat of a double-standard, but your billing/overhead is easier to justify if you bring in clinical dollars than if you are more reliant on soft money.

Added...Once in the door I think it is easier to transition....though the gate keeping is always the hardest w. any academically related position.

 

[Pragma]

I think if someone is looking to do a mix of clinical and research they may not be as quickly shut out of some of the top end places (if they apply for clinical positions w. the option or minority % time in research). I believe a clinician who has a moderate level of interest in also doing research looking at a clinical position is viewed more positively compared to a heavy researcher looking at research positions who reports also wanting to do a bit of clinical work. It is somewhat of a double-standard, but your billing/overhead is easier to justify if you bring in clinical dollars than if you are more reliant on soft money.

Which is exactly why I chose not to stay in the AMC world. Not interested in bringing in clinical dollars. I do think it is sad that there is basically never better than an 80/20% split for your time in either direction (clinical vs. research), and it is so rare to find something more balanced in an AMC.

I didn't want my job to be primarily doing clinical work, and I didn't want my job to depend on soft money. T-T teaching and research work, with perhaps some private practice on the side (clinical work I can control the intensity of), was a better fit for me.

 

[Shatani]

Not going t-t either. Still, no one can take my tweed jacket away from me.

they sure can't! you've earned that!