has anyone thought that becoming a doc will make them into a stereotype

[pakbabydoll]

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I was just at a paki-Indian get together type thing and all the students in high school were talking about what residencies they are going to do once out of medical school. It kind of mad me sick because those kids have never had a job since they are all mostly Doctors kids, They have never even volunteered yet since they are mostly in 9th and 10th grade, they have not experienced life at all. They are all going to go to good college without having to worry about money problems, they all will probably get in to medical schools if not in US then their parents would send them to Pak-India where you can get admission in to a private medical school if you have enough money. They'll come out as perfect little doctors get married to girl/guy of their parents choice and then the cycle will repeat over.

 

[dth92]

I was just at a paki-Indian get together type thing and all the students in high school were talking about what residencies they are going to do once out of medical school. It kind of mad me sick because those kids have never had a job since they are all mostly Doctors kids, They have never even volunteered yet since they are mostly in 9th and 10th grade, they have not experienced life at all. They are all going to go to good college without having to worry about money problems, they all will probably get in to medical schools if not in US then their parents would send them to Pak-India where you can get admission in to a private medical school if you have enough money. They'll come out as perfect little doctors get married to girl/guy of their parents choice and then the cycle will repeat over.

This about sums up the BS/MD crowd at my (unnamed and will remain so) college. I would say they at least 75% of these kids are south asian. There really is this whole other culture based around med school for these kids, one that I was completely unaware of until college and still have trouble believing the extent of it to this day. I don't begrudge them the fact that they are headed to med school, but I feel that it creates a sort of divide between people who had to come to the decision to pursue medicine, struggle through all the necessary steps because no one in their family was a physician, and still hold, perhaps naively, some idealistic notions of the profession. Not to mention actually struggling through the regular admissions process. At least at my school, these kids behave like they are part of an exclusive club and more often then not display this exclusionary attitude towards people not a part of their world. Well, not to drone on and on, but this post really struck a chord with me. It just boggles me that kids could be "groomed" for a career so early and thoroughly.

 

[DwyaneWade]

Do you know the biggest fight in my extended family? My cousin getting into a six year BS/MD program but choosing to go into History. His parents pretty much wanted to disown him at that point. Not only is there a push, there is a huge push into medicine by many Indian parents.

It is obviously ludicrous and I was the only one with about twenty people who was on his side when this was going on. I hope people on here are doing it because they want to, and not because their parents want to. I see their side of it too - they grew up in a different culture. Where they came from, the people with the highest scores did medicine. The next step did science and engineering. The next step did commerce and arts. There was no real 'choosing', and it is not something that many of them readily understand. They know how scarce opportunities were when they grew up, and they just want what is best for their child. But you as an individual has to decide life for yourself, and have to convince them that things are different here.

Half the kids in my family are pre-meds, and the other half are going to be when they reach college age. And maybe about 5% actually have real interest in it. It's not a choice, it's pretty much indoctrination.

Great post, I would rep you if I could.

 

[DwyaneWade]

This about sums up the BS/MD crowd at my (unnamed and will remain so) college. I would say they at least 75% of these kids are south asian. There really is this whole other culture based around med school for these kids, one that I was completely unaware of until college and still have trouble believing the extent of it to this day. I don't begrudge them the fact that they are headed to med school, but I feel that it creates a sort of divide between people who had to come to the decision to pursue medicine, struggle through all the necessary steps because no one in their family was a physician, and still hold, perhaps naively, some idealistic notions of the profession. Not to mention actually struggling through the regular admissions process. At least at my school, these kids behave like they are part of an exclusive club and more often then not display this exclusionary attitude towards people not a part of their world. Well, not to drone on and on, but this post really struck a chord with me. It just boggles me that kids could be "groomed" for a career so early and thoroughly.

Just to throw in an observation, The BS/MD kids in our class are almost all Indian, with 4 Asians and 1 other person. But most of them are very nice people and mature as well.
I think that as long as they are happy long-term and do a good job in their field, is the grooming really so bad?

 

[EM84]

Just to throw in an observation, The BS/MD kids in our class are almost all Indian, with 4 Asians and 1 other person. But most of them are very nice people and mature as well.
I think that as long as they are happy long-term and do a good job in their field, is the grooming really so bad?

Parents influence their kids. That is not so shocking of an idea at least where I'm from. Furthermore, the general idea for most asian parents (and I would consider it a pan-asian phenomena) is that they invest allot into their kids not just for altruistic reasons, but also b/c kids are expected to return the favor and be the sole-caretakers for their parents once the child gets established career-wise. This is the kind of quid pro quo that takes place at the moment of asian birth and it's a cycle that is as old as asian time.

Ultimately, they want you to be in a secure career (and medicine is if nothing else a secure career and why law and engineering also place high on the list) to make sure you'll be financially stable enough to take care of them in say 30 years.

Fortunately for me, I should be done with residency by the time my asian parental loan matures.

 

[Gospe1]

Not necessarily, a lot of it had to do with location. Fact is, there are more korean owned stores in the hood than there are caucasian owned stores. But other than that, nice post. 👍

Well it also had a lot to do with the fact that a Korean storeowner killed a Black girl like a couple of weeks earlier because he thought she was stealing from the store. Stereotypes stereotypes. There are also very bizarre pictures of Korean shopkeepers with assault rifles proudly standing in front of their store after the LA riots.

 

[Drogba]

I assume you are talking about the model minority stereotype. I think its natural to assume that this sort of "positive" stereotype is somehow desired. The real truth is that the model minority stereotype can be just as damaging to Asian Americans as negative stereotypes are to African Americans. For example, people assume that Asians make more money than whites. And yes, its true if you look at household income. However, what they don't tell you is that Asians have a substantially higher average number of people working in one household. If the statistics for income are revised to per capita, both male and female Asian Americans still make less than Euro Americans on average. Secondly, the model minority stereotype leads to inaction and false assumptions on part of the general population. For example, government assistance is often cut for Asian communities, even though there are serious needs in some of these areas. Politicians (and laymen) tend to assume that those Asians are doing alright and therefore need no help. The model minority stereotype also hides many inequities. For example, 20% of Boeing's employees are Asian. Great right? Well only 2% of Boeing's management is Asian. The glass ceiling is alive and well, obscured by the relative economic success of the Asians at the lowest rung of the workforce. Third, the model minority stereotype creates unnecessary tension between different racial groups. During the LA riots, I believe more damage was caused to Korean American stores than Euro-American owned property because African Americans saw Koreans as "invading their turf" and getting government loans that aren't available to Blacks. Finally, because of the model minority stereotype, there is a perpetual push by society for Asians to take on careers like medicine, engineering, accounting etc. People assume that Asians are competent at these careers, and Asians find that they have the best career prospects in these fields because of the previous assumption. It's an endless cycle that ultimately will hurt Asian Americans and Americans in general. If we take a look back, both irish and italian immigrants who were viewed as "subhuman", "non-white" were able to overcome their impoverished status not just through economic success, but through political organization. How many Asian senators/representatives/governors do you know (excluding Hawaii which has a >50% Asian pop)?

Awesome post, although I wish you would've used paragraph formatting. Where did you learn all of this? I'm interested in seeing where the general social, political and economic trajectory of asian immigrants has diverged or intersected with the that of other minority groups. Your post reminds me I've got a lot of research to do.

 

[87138]

Furthermore, their was no need for him to share his beliefs regarding these stereotypes, keep them to your self

I severely hope your culture doesn't endorse this attitude. If so, I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to learn more about it.

 

[Auron]

I severely hope your culture doesn't endorse this attitude. If so, I ave absolutely no desire whatsoever to learn more about it.

No I just meant its best not to share your personal opinion in places where others may be offended like in this forum. Like another member mentioned, their is a time and place for everything. The fact that you admit its racist doesn't really make it better. I mean, I could mention some stereotypes regarding some ethnicity on this forum and I'm sure I'd get flak for it, and for good reason - I know some people would be offended and so it would be best to say nothing, especially if you have nothing productive/constructive to say. Anyway I'm done. No hard feelings, rest assured I'm not losing sleep over this.

 

[87138]

No I just meant its best not to share your personal opinion in places where others may be offened like this forum.

I severely hope your culture doesn't endorse this attitude. If so, I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to learn more about it.

 

[87138]

No I just meant its best not to share your personal opinion in places where others may be offended like in this forum. Like another member mentioned, their is a time and place for everything. The fact that you admit its racist doesn't really make it better. I mean, I could mention some stereotypes regarding some ethnicity on this forum and I'm sure I'd get flak for it, and for good reason - I know some people would be offended and so it would be best to say nothing, especially if you have nothing productive/constructive to say. Anyway I'm done. No hard feelings, rest assured I'm not losing sleep over this.

No offense, but people like you are the reason elementary schools around the country have eliminated dodgeball at recess, and won't grade with red pen for fear of causing anxiety attacks.

 

[Auron]

I appreciate your honesty.

However, there's no need to constantly broadcast your thoughts. Imagine if someone asked you where your neighbor was so that they could kill them - no need to be honest here.

My worry is you might perpetuate the stereotype just by mentioning it. Luckily, this stereotype isn't particularly hurtful in comparison to some others.

You and I can both imagine some worser stereotypes that, had you posted them, would have really set this thread aflame.

Smeagol said it well, guess what - you agreed with what he said so get off it.

 

[87138]

Anyway I'm done. No hard feelings, rest assured I'm not losing sleep over this.

...

You don't know the first thing about me and the racism I've had to put up with over my life, so forgive me for being a little sensitive on the matter. I'm cool man, you're the one who keeps dragging this on. Will you be mentioning your "modest" upringing again anytime soon?

 

[Auron]

No offense, but people like you are the reason elementary schools around the country have eliminated dodgeball at recess, and won't grade with red pen for fear of causing anxiety attacks.

🙄

You don't know the first thing about me or the racism and stereotyping I have faced over the years, so shut it.

 

[Gospe1]

Awesome post, although I wish you would've used paragraph formatting. Where did you learn all of this? I'm interested in seeing where the general social, political and economic trajectory of asian immigrants has diverged or intersected with the that of other minority groups. Your post reminds me I've got a lot of research to do.

A synthesis of American studies, Black studies, Polisci, and psychology. Yea liberal arts education!

 

[DwyaneWade]

🙄

You don't know the first thing about me or the racism and stereotyping I have faced over the years, so shut it.

You are showing that you haven't gotten over it.

Really what is the big deal here? Have we become so sensitive as a society that we can't say anything, even when it is the truth?! He wasn't endorsing the stereotype but he was trying to indicate that it does exist.

 

[nick_carraway]

You are showing that you haven't gotten over it.

Really what is the big deal here? Have we become so sensitive as a society that we can't say anything, even when it is the truth?! He wasn't endorsing the stereotype but he was trying to indicate that it does exist.

Hear hear!

 

[THH]

1. Why not be colorblind? Being culturally blind, maybe not, but colorblind definitely. Color does not = culture.

2. The argument for white clubs is annoying. Like when people say, "why isn't there a white history month? or a WET (White Entertainment Television)?"
Answer is there are plenty. FOX, ABC, CBS etc. And there are plenty of white clubs. The GOP is one, NRA another.

And here I thought you were the guy fighting against stereotypes! 😛

 

[dth92]

🙄

You don't know the first thing about me or the racism and stereotyping I have faced over the years, so shut it.

Ha, you guys are still going at it, huh? I think we may need to be enlightened by some real horror stories of racism and stereotyping. I'll start off: one time someone called me a derogatory term for an asian. It was horrifying to think that my fellow man could harbor such thoughts.

🙄

 

[nick_carraway]

Ha, you guys are still going at it, huh? I think we may need to be enlightened by some real horror stories of racism and stereotyping. I'll start off: one time someone called me a derogatory term for an asian. It was horrifying to think that my fellow man could harbor such thoughts.

🙄

Amazing. In fact, I'm at a loss for words 🙂

 

[Begaster]

The whole "tall, handsome doctor" thing is getting really old.

Trade you for "short, Jewish doctor. "

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Yeah, I'm pretty much the standard "Nerdy white guy" doctor. I'm a walking stereotype.

 

[flaahless]

Well it also had a lot to do with the fact that a Korean storeowner killed a Black girl like a couple of weeks earlier because he thought she was stealing from the store. Stereotypes stereotypes. There are also very bizarre pictures of Korean shopkeepers with assault rifles proudly standing in front of their store after the LA riots.

Yeah, she was buying orange juice (or milk) and was shot 2 blocks away from my crib. However, living in South Central during the riots, Korean store owners didn't seem to be disproportionately targeted than any other store owner. That place was a zoo. If you had a store, it was getting demolished, it didn't matter who you were. But I haven't seen any stats on anything, this is just from my own perception.

 

[flaahless]

And here I thought you were the guy fighting against stereotypes! 😛

Touche. Bad judgment on my part.

 

[ronaldo23]

dammmn dude you get alot of harsh comments on ur MDapps...why do you keep them?

 

[SoFlaKnight]

Trade you for "short, Jewish doctor. "

 

[TRAMD]

Trade you for "short, Jewish doctor. "

I am circumsized and I like money . . . DANG, now I am doing it!

Since this thread is completely high-jacked anyways . . .

I have heard that black people have stereotypes for white people but have never been able to get them out of any of the few black people that I have met (I live in South Dakota; mainly whites and Native Americans here.) It seems like it is a big secret. Anyone care to tell me a few of these. I think most whites believe that there aren't really any stereotypes about them. I truly would find these funny and if you are afraid of offending someone please PM me.

 

[justme456]

.......

 

[PanicAttack]

I have heard that black people have stereotypes for white people but have never been able to get them out of any of the few black people that I have met (I live in South Dakota; mainly whites and Native Americans here.) It seems like it is a big secret. Anyone care to tell me a few of these. I think most whites believe that there aren't really any stereotypes about them. I truly would find these funny and if you are afraid of offending someone please PM me.

Um...this is gonna sound weird, but I've been told that one is that we smell like wet dogs. I get this from my students (i'm white, they're all black).

 

[justme456]

Um...this is gonna sound weird, but I've been told that one is that we smell like wet dogs. I get this from my students (i'm white, they're all black).

I've heard other black people say that..... but i don't really now what a wet dog smells like..

 

[PanicAttack]

I don't either, but I don't think it's a compliment.

 

[ronaldo23]

do you guys think that fear of a becoming a stereotype has prevented alot of individuals from becoming doctors? based on not wanting to fall into the stereotype of there race/ethnicity? bc from my observations, many people stay away from a field and never really explore it out of fear of becoming the stereotype that their parent/race embodies...

 

[Thewrongstuff]

Possibly but the bigger issue is the true stereotype (is that an oxymoron lol?) parents pushing their kids to become doctors because as adults themselves they possibly suck at life but have no idea what real medicine is like. I hear it tastes like datura.

 

[rds726]

Yeah, she was buying orange juice (or milk) and was shot 2 blocks away from my crib. However, living in South Central during the riots, Korean store owners didn't seem to be disproportionately targeted than any other store owner. That place was a zoo. If you had a store, it was getting demolished, it didn't matter who you were. But I haven't seen any stats on anything, this is just from my own perception.

Untrue, from what i know.
During the LA Riots, anger from the black community caused by the verdict of Rodney King was directed to mostly Korean and other Asian immigrants.

The pictures of Korean shopowners with guns outside was because the police had abandoned them and went to protect the richer, "elite" white community in beverely hills.

from what i gathered from a class i took, the anger was taken out on Koreans because the intended targets were protected and so the looters took it out on the vulnerable Koreans and other Asian immigrants who they perceived had "stepped" on them on their way to acquiring the "model minority" status.

However, this is not the focus of the thread. i just wanted to let you know that Asians, specifically Koreans, were indeed disproportionately targeted.
here's link to Wikipedia's article on LA riots:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

 

[Lokhtar]

Great post, I would rep you if I could.

I don't know what that means, but thanks.

 

[Lokhtar]

Just to throw in an observation, The BS/MD kids in our class are almost all Indian, with 4 Asians and 1 other person. But most of them are very nice people and mature as well.
I think that as long as they are happy long-term and do a good job in their field, is the grooming really so bad?

I don't think grooming is bad. Many families have traditions, such as military, police, etc. The problem really stems when it stops being simple 'encouragement' and almost emotional blackmail, as I see so often. The parent's response to a non-traditional career (e.g, a career not as a physician) is often met with condemnation, and that kid is going to be put through hell by his family and until he changes his mind. It's a ridiculous process.

I am so thankful that I will be the first physician in my immediate family. I was in a different career for five-six years, and I came to choose medicine by myself, and I wouldn't really have it any other way. Even if it makes me into an Indian doctor stereotype. At least I have no doubts about what I want to do. I want to know how many Indian kids study anthropology (my other passion). In a class of 200 in Bio, maybe 20% were Indian, but in my upper level anthropology classes, I was the only one. It's not because having brown skin automatically makes you averse to anthropology - there is some serious cultural crap pushing you in a certain direction.

 

[flaahless]

Untrue, from what i know.
During the LA Riots, anger from the black community caused by the verdict of Rodney King was directed to mostly Korean and other Asian immigrants.

The pictures of Korean shopowners with guns outside was because the police had abandoned them and went to protect the richer, "elite" white community in beverely hills.

from what i gathered from a class i took, the anger was taken out on Koreans because the intended targets were protected and so the looters took it out on the vulnerable Koreans and other Asian immigrants who they perceived had "stepped" on them on their way to acquiring the "model minority" status.

However, this is not the focus of the thread. i just wanted to let you know that Asians, specifically Koreans, were indeed disproportionately targeted.
here's link to Wikipedia's article on LA riots:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

Thanks for the link, however, it says Korean stores were widely targeted, but it doesn't give me the actual data. Nonetheless, I'll take your word for it. However, I still believe a major reason Korean stores were targeted was because they were in the hood. Virtually every store was demolished, whether it was owned by caucasians, asian americans, african americans or mexican americans. I was living there at the time, and the collective thought didn't seem like, "Let's go target Korean store owners because they've achieved model minority status," but it was, "Dawg, they got mad VCRs at that shop on 93rd and Figueroa." If they would have been in Beverly Hills, they wouldn't have been touched. But that's from my perspective on the inside looking out, I guess things from the outside looking in are very different. Thanks for the post. 👍

 

[Thewrongstuff]

I've been told that the police actually incited some of those riots.