Have a Goal, searching for best means to that end

[Barefootone]

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I am glad to have found this forum and totally appreciate any and all advice - the good, the bad and the ugly.

My situation: I am seeking a possible midlife career change.

In my youth I worked as a peer counselor and enjoyed it immensely. For reasons not worth delving into, I did not pursue psychology as a career field, rather I went into business. I do have a twenty plus year old degree in Sociology (among other degrees - some useful, some not so much). My most favorite parts of my career have been centered around problem resolution and mediation.

Currently, the only reason I am still working is to earn enough time on the current job to be eligible for group healthcare in retirement...which is still 7 years away.
I could theoretically retire now, if the healthcare issue were not a concern.

Ok, so that brings me to the real question. It has always been a goal of mine to practice psychotherapy.

I recently started looking into making that career change. Most often, the recommended route is an MSW and subsequent licensing - which apparently can take several years.

I am at a point in my life where time is more important than money. I am looking at psychotherapy as a *second career* to supplement pension and retirement income - not as a means of full financial support and future career growth.

And yet, having a license that is widely recognized by potential employers and reimbursing entities such as insurance companies is also important.

Based on my own needs/desires/timelines - might it be more feasible to undertake a less intensive course of training - for example - a masters degree in mental health counseling leading toward a LPC licensure? Is this a faster route? (again, balancing time against money)

As I said above - all thoughts appreciated.

BFO

 

[drm246]

That is great that you are looking to make a change into the field of psychotherapy. I would recommend looking into your state's requirements to be a mental health counselor. You will certainly need to obtain a master's degree to practice, but what exactly do you want to practice? There are many types of programs and specialties (community counseling, mental health, school, marriage/couples, career/college). After obtaining the degree you will need a certain number of practicum hours before given a license by the state. You do not need to go for a more advanced degree to practice though.

A good place to start would be the council for accreditation of counseling. This will help you narrow down some programs.

http://www.cacrep.org/template/index.cfm

I hope this helps.

 

[Barefootone]

Thank you for reply. I have done some more thinking on this in order to clarify and simplify my question.

My choices:

(1) Stay in current job, retire in 7 years... probably too old/too late to start a second career

(2) Stay in current job, take part time study (MSW or Masters in Mental Health Counseling? eventually leave job when time comes to do internship, graduate - try to find federal govt job as a counselor in order to get back into the system to rebuild retirement credits/time toward retiree benefits.

Thoughts? suggestions? thanks, bfo

 

[wigflip]

Thank you for reply. I have done some more thinking on this in order to clarify and simplify my question.

My choices:

(1) Stay in current job, retire in 7 years... probably too old/too late to start a second career

(2) Stay in current job, take part time study (MSW or Masters in Mental Health Counseling? eventually leave job when time comes to do internship, graduate - try to find federal govt job as a counselor in order to get back into the system to rebuild retirement credits/time toward retiree benefits.

Thoughts? suggestions? thanks, bfo

If you've got a good healthcare plan I'd be loathe to do anything to jeopardize getting vetted, or fully invested or whatever you need to do in 7 years. If you don't mind me asking, just how old are you? I'm 43, and am also thinking career change, but most likely wouldn't even begin a masters in counseling until 2013 because I'm in the process of disentangling myself from disastrous career #3...

 

[Barefootone]

Hi there, I am 50....so I was concerned about *starting* to study for a Masters Degree at age 57/58.

I have been toying with the idea of being a non-matriculated student, taking a class here and there - at least so that when I reach the point where I do end up leaving - I already have some credits built up toward a degree.

Thanks again.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

And yet, having a license that is widely recognized by potential employers and reimbursing entities such as insurance companies is also important.

Based on my own needs/desires/timelines - might it be more feasible to undertake a less intensive course of training - for example - a masters degree in mental health counseling leading toward a LPC licensure? Is this a faster route? (again, balancing time against money)

MSW vs. Masters in Counseling (or any variation): No difference. You *may* be able to get away with a few less credits in counseling, but you are not looking at a shorter route, by and large.

You may consider doing some sort of mental health certificate (addictions, psychiatric tech, etc.). Since you have a bachelors degree, this would take significantly less time--perhaps a year of classes and a year of fieldwork. The only catch is that you'll never be able to work in private practice. And the pay is awful, but such is life with any mental health job where private practice is not an option.

I have been toying with the idea of being a non-matriculated student, taking a class here and there - at least so that when I reach the point where I do end up leaving - I already have some credits built up toward a degree.

You could probably do this--but not for long. Most programs want you to be an admitted student, and they may allow you to take 2-3 classes at most before actually being admitted to the program.

Also, most masters programs allow you 6-7 years to complete the degree, so you could easily attend part-time and then complete your internship when you leave your current position, for example. You'd be ready to go, theoretically, when you retire.

 

[wigflip]

Also, most masters programs allow you 6-7 years to complete the degree, so you could easily attend part-time and then complete your internship when you leave your current position, for example. You'd be ready to go, theoretically, when you retire.

Great idea! 👍
I hate to think of OP leaving current job before getting health insurance secured.

 

[Barefootone]

<<<Also, most masters programs allow you 6-7 years to complete the degree, so you could easily attend part-time and then complete your internship when you leave your current position, for example. You'd be ready to go, theoretically, when you retire>>>

This is beginning to look like my best route, I agree.

Now, here's another consideration if I go this route. Since I am entering the field as a second (less pressing) career, I am thinking of a Masters program that would be less intense/more enjoyable (for example, not one intended to produce future PhDs, Psych profs or reseachers)....
does it matter as long as it has the clinical focus I want and is *accredited*? Also, which accrediting bodies are the ones the insurers and state licensing boards look to? (I know I will need to go research this).

I don't think I'll need to look at the top ranked MSW schools or MS Counseling programs in the country - only those that are accredited and friendlier for an older student?...even possibly those that have a distance learning program....etc.

Thanks again

 

[Psychadelic2012]

Now, here's another consideration if I go this route. Since I am entering the field as a second (less pressing) career, I am thinking of a Masters program that would be less intense/more enjoyable (for example, not one intended to produce future PhDs, Psych profs or reseachers)....
does it matter as long as it has the clinical focus I want and is *accredited*? Also, which accrediting bodies are the ones the insurers and state licensing boards look to? (I know I will need to go research this).

I don't think I'll need to look at the top ranked MSW schools or MS Counseling programs in the country - only those that are accredited and friendlier for an older student?...even possibly those that have a distance learning program....etc.

Yeah, I think you have the right idea. You'll want a program that leads to licensure, and you should be able to get that kind of information from the program--they will promote it like crazy if that's what the degree leads to. CACREP is a good accreditation for counseling, but not necessary. Go to their Open Houses and such, you'll learn a lot from them. Social work, counseling, and psychology all have slightly different bents.

You'll find that many people on these forums discourage distance learning. The biggest disadvantage I see is the lack of connections for finding a good internship site--and that's a big deal! Where you intern can make a huge difference in your training/specialization (are you actually treating clients or just observing groups or milieu, etc.?), networking opportunities, and future job prospects. Something to consider, at least.

 

[Barefootone]

Thank you. It gets quite confusing trying to find the best route to reach the goal.

All I really want to do is become trained in order to obtain a license to practice psychotherapy as a late life career - ultimately in private practice. My last therapist was 67 and she was good and I believe part of it was due to all that life experience 😀

Of course, I need to make sure I can get reimbursed by insurers, since presumably that's how most people pay for their visits...

My primary interests are dealing with midlife issues, transition issues, relationship issues...possibly substance abuse.

Finding the best program to get to that goal, as I said, remains a challenge.

I am on the East Coast....so looks like we have fewer options here than in CA.

tks again, bfo

 

[Vasa Lisa]

BFO,

I too am on the east coast, and I too was a midlife career switcher - IMHO - security - is overrated... it is our fears that keep us as Joe Campbell says - climbing the ladder - and then we find the ladder was up against the wrong wall.

I too fall into that fear trap about security, vested retirement, health insurance etc., and when I am able to move beyond the fear, I find that again as Joe Campbell says (actually said since he has crossed over) that invisible doors open where there were none.

As a Hollis fan, you might check out the soul poetry of Rilke, Mary Oliver, David Whyte, and your own soul's song for guidance.

YMMV,
Vasa Lisa

 

[wigflip]

I am on the East Coast....so looks like we have fewer options here than in CA.

Fewer options, but the upside might be less competition too, no (unless you're in NYC)? In SoCal there are lots o' therapists--it's a popular career change for midlife folks transitioning out of careers in music or entertainment.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

[Barefootone]

Again,

Thank you for the comments.

I was doing some filtering using the CACREP site and came up with Argosy University.... I believe they are a nontraditional school, but accredited?

Anyone familiar with their program?

Thanks, BFO

 

[wigflip]

Again,

Thank you for the comments.

I was doing some filtering using the CACREP site and came up with Argosy University.... I believe they are a nontraditional school, but accredited?

Anyone familiar with their program?

Thanks, BFO

Hi BFO,

There's been a lot of Argosy talk on sdn already, perhaps more on the PhD/PsyD forum than here on the masters forum. In fact, I think that there is an active Argosy thread over there now. If you use the search function you'll come up with even more.

The consensus is that Argosy is bad news. You seem smart and thoughtful. I'm pretty sure you can do better.

wigflip

 

[Psychadelic2012]

I was doing some filtering using the CACREP site and came up with Argosy University.... I believe they are a nontraditional school, but accredited?

Anyone familiar with their program?

What do you mean by "nontraditional" school? They are not a public university, if that's what you mean. It really depends on the location of the program. I know folks who've gone to the campus in my town and they are quite competent clinicians. Ask around.

There's been a lot of Argosy talk on sdn already, perhaps more on the PhD/PsyD forum than here on the masters forum. In fact, I think that there is an active Argosy thread over there now. If you use the search function you'll come up with even more.

The consensus is that Argosy is bad news. You seem smart and thoughtful. I'm pretty sure you can do better.

I think this is true more for their PsyD programs (especially when it comes to predoctoral internship placements and high debt loads). Masters programs are a different animal. Again, I think it really depends on the location--both the location and quality of the individual campus, the location the student needs to attend school, and the comparison to other schools in the area. Much better to go to Argosy than a distance-learning/online program. But I really don't know how much worse they are than other masters programs, especially when the goal is to become licensed. You're looking mostly for reputation in the community, in order to get a competitive practicum placement, I'd say.

Really depends on your goals. And if getting a terminal masters is the goal, I really don't know that the school matters all that much in terms of better vs. worse. That is probably not going to be popular around these parts, but you're not looking to go into a PhD/PsyD program or be focused on research, right? You probably want to be in a program with more mature students? You want psychology over social work or counseling? Then a professional school sounds like a great way to go if it's a major choice in your region.

 

[Barefootone]

Thank you for the feedback. I have been looking at various schools.

For example, one in NY - SUNY New Paltz (MA in Mental Health Counseling) does not have CACREP accreditation (sp?), but Argosy does, so we are doubting CACREP? I guess I am confused.

I am likely to go to school in either the DC area or NY. I was accepted into the SUNY Albany MSW program earlier this year, but decided not to enroll...again, for various reasons.

I have BAs in Literature and Sociology, as well as an MBA (although these degrees are several years old)....and graduated at least cum laude from all programs - so my ability to pass a rigorous academic program is well tested.

Again, not looking to teach/do research or long time involvement in a community setting - simply looking to practice psychotherapy as a late, second career, ultimately in private practice, although I acknowledge that experience in a community setting will be valuable...

Thanks again.

 

[Barefootone]

Another thought - I think of schools like Pacifica and Saybrook in CA and Naropa in Colorado - then look at what's offered on the East Coast of the US and it's like we're all living in two different countries...

bfo - just a thought.

 

[Vasa Lisa]

Another thought - I think of schools like Pacifica and Saybrook in CA and Naropa in Colorado - then look at what's offered on the East Coast of the US and it's like we're all living in two different countries...

bfo - just a thought.

The CACREP thing will become important as the process of licensure continues to tighten. In some states, without graduating from a CACREP program - it can be very difficult to get licensed - the winds of change are blowing that way.

I too dreamed of Pacifica, CIIS, JFK, Saybrook, Naropa, etc and settled for a university that was close and affordable. I was definitely on a different continent than most of my professors - and some made trips to my side of the world to check out my world view and some didn't. In the end, here I am in my residency in partnership with fine colleagues who are archetypal and depth oriented and provide me with splendid supervision as I earn my residency hours.

I too had multiple degrees before I returned for this degree - and this degree was a means to an end - so that I could do what I love - which is what I am now doing.

Along the way - I made sure to go to events like the Psychotherapy Networker conference, Expressive Arts workshops, I continued my own therapy journey and participated in consultation groups with like minded travelers.

Barefootone - no matter where YOU go there YOU are and you are the ingredient that matters most. I trust that you will find your way - you are asking all the right questions.

Vasa Lisa

 

[Vasa Lisa]

Of course, I need to make sure I can get reimbursed by insurers, since presumably that's how most people pay for their visits...

Well BFO - Maybe - Maybe not!

Depends on how you want to practice and how much money you need to make. I don't take insurance because I cannot as a resident - and my clients who have insurance pay me something between their copay and my rate - and then they don't have a mental health dx with the insurance company.

I can offer a sliding scale because I do not participate as an insurance provider. I have a few clients who I see on temporary fee reductions and the rest just pay my fee straight up. It took me about six months to build a nice small practice and now I am able to pay my overhead and draw a small salary from the practice.

At this rate, the practice will support me within a couple of years - but I live a simple life and have financial security from my previous working life.
YMMV,

Vasa Lisa