Have I Screwed Myself Over?

[Paradoxnc14]

Alright, Here goes:

I am a former active duty military member. After my 4 "wonderful" years of service I decided to attend college. I attended a community college and ended up earning a A.A. Pre-Major Sociology degree from there. I transferred to NCSU, a respected school in my state, and this is my first semester. I'm taking Bio II, Orgo Chem I, Calc I and a PE class this semester. I know that I am going to fail Orgo, but I will be making a B (maybe A) in Bio, and A's in the other classes. Also my transfer GPA from the CC was 3.2. I am going to retake Orgo during Summer session. I also am a part-time phlebotomist (working 25 hours a week), and I also landed an undergrad research position in a Neuro lab on campus for next year. I will be taking the MCAT in the spring of next year, I have been scoring between 32-34 on practice tests.

I talked to someone in my PreMed advising office today and she said I would be a good podiatry applicant. Not to say that it is a horrible careerfield--but I am more interested in Neuro...not feet so much.

So, I'm half way through my B.S. Biological Sciences degree (minor in Sociology).

Have I already screwed myself over for Med school or what?

>>I want to apply to UNC-Carolina MS, Brody MS, and Wake Forest MS.

---Thank you in advance for any replies or suggestions.

---

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[WisePrincess227]

First to answer your question...no. I believe that taking organic's over the summer is probably not the best solution. I have personal experience in this department and would not recommend it. I know that you have seen the material once through the regular semester, but to digest the information and still do well on the Biology parts on the MCAT...I would suggest waiting on Organic until the fall...continue with your research and your part time job...accumulate some ec's and score well on the mcat... best wishes

 

[Paradoxnc14]

Thanks very much for the reply. I had some reservations when I signed up for the summer Orgo's. I think I will look and see what else I can take over the summer instead of those.

Thanks Again.

 

[st0w]

Nope, you've not screwed yourself over. If you really want it bad enough, don't ever let anybody tell you that you can't do it. Just keep a plan as to how you'll deal with the obstacles.

 

[Paradoxnc14]

Thank you. I feel horrible for failing that class--its my first "F." I'm not going to let it kill me, but it has been stressing me out for the last couple of weeks. I just wonder how negatively the Med School admission commitees will look at me for it--even if I retake and make a good grade in it. If I can pull off A's in 90% of my classes until the time I graduate, and B's in the other 10%, then my total cumultive GPA will be 3.6. That is the average GPA for the matriculated class of Carolina MS for 2007.

Does anyone know what their cut-off GPA is for even bothering to look at your application?

 

[Pemberley]

Thank you. I feel horrible for failing that class--its my first "F." I'm not going to let it kill me, but it has been stressing me out for the last couple of weeks. I just wonder how negatively the Med School admission commitees will look at me for it--even if I retake and make a good grade in it. If I can pull off A's in 90% of my classes until the time I graduate, and B's in the other 10%, then my total cumultive GPA will be 3.6. That is the average GPA for the matriculated class of Carolina MS for 2007.

Does anyone know what their cut-off GPA is for even bothering to look at your application?

This is a question nobody can really answer -- for one thing, it's probably different for different adcomms, and for another, most schools don't admit to having a cut-off anyway. Personally, I think they do sort their spreadsheets in some way that has to do with GPA, so there ends up being an effective cut-off if not an official one. I would aim for a minimum of 3.5 for allopathic schools -- I don't know a thing about what you can work with in osteopathic admissions.

Yes, the F will hurt you. The most important thing is to look at why you're getting an F. If you can't handle the classwork that's a very bad sign, but if you're getting it because you simply took too many classes to do well in while working full time, that's different. If that's the case, slow down. Take fewer classes at a time and do well in them. Every semester F you get is going to require 7 semester-courses of straight As to pull up to a 3.5, so hurrying now will just slow you down in the long run anyway.

 

[chopstick1]

pre med advisor.....yeah whatever. if medicine is what you want, you can do it! max the mcat, do better in your classes to help your gpa. take org again. when you apply you have to put down the org I grade (sorry) but also put down the repeat grade and you can choose which higher level bio/chem class to use. that'll help you gpa a little when they calculate it. 3.6 and mcat 32-34..... you'll be fine. good luck!

 

[Paradoxnc14]

Thanks for the advice.

The reason I am going to fail the class is multi-fold. One, the courseload was too much with having to work at the same time. Two, my brother almost died during the middle of the semester, and had a subsequent surgery after that episode. Three, I just moved here in the middle of said semester. I think all the combined stress of those things finally made me realize and cross my breaking point.

I do understand the material, its not the easiest in the world, but nothing too difficult. I missed so much class dealing with my brother that I was unable to study sufficiently for 2 of 4 test and I bombed them. The Instructor would not offer any other routes for me to pursue, so I lost heart/hope in the class and let myself slip away.

If anything, I have learned that if I want this badly enough that I have to prove it. I have fallen but I'm getting back up and walking the path again.

 

[chopstick1]

in some sense it's ok to bomb a course if there's a good reason (I know it's not good for the transcript). as long as you can take it over and get an A and explain it during the interview, I wouldn't worry. make sure you take what you just wrote above and wrap it up in a sentence or two in your PS. the interviewers would rather see something tragic happen and you bounced back from it rather than you made a C because you're a ******* and didn't do remedial training. it shows character, maturity...and esp being a non trad, that's a strong edge that'll seperate you from the others. the whole point is to get the numbers and a good PS written to get yourself to the interview, then sell what you've got to the committee.

"I do understand the material, its not the easiest in the world, but nothing too difficult".....you just summed up med school right there!

 

[njbmd]

I'm taking Bio II, Orgo Chem I, Calc I and a PE class this semester. I know that I am going to fail Orgo

I also am a part-time phlebotomist (working 25 hours a week), and I also landed an undergrad research position in a Neuro lab on campus for next year.


Have I already screwed myself over for Med school or what?

>>I want to apply to UNC-Carolina MS, Brody MS, and Wake Forest MS.

---Thank you in advance for any replies or suggestions.

Your issue here is that you are going to fail Organic Chemistry and therefore an analysis of why you are going to fail this couse is in order. The first thing I see is that you have way too much in terms of coursework with your work schedule. Calculus and Organic Chemistry are both problem-heavy courses and thus, taking one or the other but not both together with work would be a better choice. In applying to medical school as a non-traditional student, you don't have to hurry. Take your time and do well. It's performance and not course load that will make the difference.

Thank you. I feel horrible for failing that class--its my first "F." I'm not going to let it kill me, but it has been stressing me out for the last couple of weeks. I just wonder how negatively the Med School admission commitees will look at me for it--even if I retake and make a good grade in it. If I can pull off A's in 90% of my classes until the time I graduate, and B's in the other 10%, then my total cumultive GPA will be 3.6. That is the average GPA for the matriculated class of Carolina MS for 2007.

Does anyone know what their cut-off GPA is for even bothering to look at your application?

The "cutoff" numbers are not going to make any difference in what your strategy for gaining acceptance will be. They are averages of the past and you anticipate application/acceptance in the future. By the time you apply, these numbers are likely to have changed (the usual trend is higher) so resist the urge to fixate on an average and concentrate on making sure that you achieve the highest grades that you can in addition to "damage control" because of your "F".

A retake of a course that you fail even if you achieve an A will average out to a C for those hours. If you take another course of equal hours and achieve an A, you raise the average to around a B and so on. This is why doing GPA damage control takes a bit of work.

At this point, there is nothing that you can do about the F but you can do some preventive work in the future and that means making sure that you either cut back on your working hours or cut back on your course hours to ensure that all of the rest of your grades are As.

The reason I am going to fail the class is multi-fold. One, the course load was too much with having to work at the same time. Two, my brother almost died during the middle of the semester, and had a subsequent surgery after that episode. Three, I just moved here in the middle of said semester. I think all the combined stress of those things finally made me realize and cross my breaking point.

If anything, I have learned that if I want this badly enough that I have to prove it. I have fallen but I'm getting back up and walking the path again.

Again, you have zeroed in on the problems that caused you to fail this course. Don't set yourself up for failure again and do your best from here on out. Also, resist the temptation to "blame the instructor" as this is useless in terms of explaining what happened. You failed and that the end of the story. You have to run your own race and get back in the saddle as quickly as possible.

As harsh as it seems, your course work is YOUR business. It doesn't matter if the "devil himself" is teaching that course, you do what you have to do to get the job done. This means making sure that you have plenty of time to devote to your coursework and not overloading yourself with work or other demanding courses so that you can do your best. It means that you get every dollar's worth of instruction and learning out of that course no matter how the professor grades or schedules the exams. What ever challenges are put in front of you, you rise to meet and exceed them.

Let the MCAT review go until you have completed (or near completed) your coursework. Right now, if you are failing courses, you need to put your emphasis in your coursework. Doing practice MCAT tests before you have completed your premed coursework takes time away from your studies (you don't have that much extra time at this point anyway). If you are failing your courses, the MCAT isn't going to help you get into medical school.


Your strategy:

Focus on the most immediate goals at hand and the number one goal is to get an A in your retake. On your retake, at the first sign of trouble, be in your instructor's office and get your problems solved. Don't wait until your have done poorly on a test to get help, go early and go often. I had a 98 average in both semesters of Organic chemistry and my instructor saw me more than anyone else in the course. He actually complained that I didn't need to come because I was doing well. My answer to that was that I told him I didn't want him to be lonely or bored during office hours. Your instructor gets paid to teach you so make him/her earn every dollar of that paycheck. Go early and go often even if you think you are on the right track. Make him/her reinforce what you are learning so that your mastery is better.

Leave the MCAT review until you have your coursework done. You cannot review what you have not mastered in the first place. Anything that you are doing at this point is a distraction and not helping you.

Make an Excel worksheet, calculate your GPA after every semester and keep track of what you need to get yourself into a competitive GPA range (3.5-3.6). If you are not where you need to be, then take the time to take additional coursework (do well) and get that GPA up.

Make no excuses for what happened in the past. When asked why you received an F in Organic chemistry, mention your brother's illness but nothing more.

Don't take on any additional projects or work hours until you are sure that they will not interfere with your coursework. You "job" is to get As in your courses and that's where your focus should be.

If you have to put off the MCAT (and applying) do so if this ensures that you will be successful. Rushing through this process and doing a mediocre or poor job wastes your time and your money. Make everything that you do from here on out count.

Finally, if you want to go to Podiatry School, then go to Podiatry school. If you want to go to medical school, then do whatever it takes to achieve your goal. If this was an easy process, everyone would be doing it. It's hard, it's long but success comes when you figure out your problems and solve them. Keep moving forward.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Alright, Here goes:

I am a former active duty military member. After my 4 "wonderful" years of service I decided to attend college. I attended a community college and ended up earning a A.A. Pre-Major Sociology degree from there. I transferred to NCSU, a respected school in my state, and this is my first semester. I'm taking Bio II, Orgo Chem I, Calc I and a PE class this semester. I know that I am going to fail Orgo, but I will be making a B (maybe A) in Bio, and A's in the other classes. Also my transfer GPA from the CC was 3.2. I am going to retake Orgo during Summer session. I also am a part-time phlebotomist (working 25 hours a week), and I also landed an undergrad research position in a Neuro lab on campus for next year. I will be taking the MCAT in the spring of next year, I have been scoring between 32-34 on practice tests.

I talked to someone in my PreMed advising office today and she said I would be a good podiatry applicant. Not to say that it is a horrible careerfield--but I am more interested in Neuro...not feet so much.

So, I'm half way through my B.S. Biological Sciences degree (minor in Sociology).

Have I already screwed myself over for Med school or what?

>>I want to apply to UNC-Carolina MS, Brody MS, and Wake Forest MS.

---Thank you in advance for any replies or suggestions.

No, it's definitely not over but you will need to do some damage control. You are most definitely taking on too much as once: classes, MCAT practice, working 25 hours per week, showing interest in research. Here is my suggestion: Drop everything except your classes.

If you can borrow more money (if this is the reason for working as a phlebotomist), you should. If you are working as a phlebotomist to show continued interest in medicine, now is not the best time.

Stay well away from research while you are taking classes and studying for the MCAT. Research experience is not essential to gain admission to medical school - especially state schools. My best suggestion would be to perhaps focus on your classes, then the MCAT, then take a research job while you apply to medical school if you want to do research for its own sake.

Retake the organic chemistry class and get at least a B+. This is almost essential if you are awarded an F in the first sitting.

Worry about the MCAT only when you have at least a three-month window where you are not being distracted by classes, and take a prep. course if you have the money. Keep in mind that learning chemistry, biology, and physics well when you take them as prerequisites is good prep. for the MCAT.

Good luck!

 

[Paradoxnc14]

Wow...

Thanks for all the advice everyone, I never expected to get this sort of response--I appreciate it greatly.

 

[cdpiano27]

Hi, I go to NCSU but I am a PhD student. Take orgo with Dr. Sandberg and avoid Dr. Brown if you want to improve your grade. Brown, I heard is good, but has very high expectations which may / may not be good depending upon your personal taste.

Did you have Brown?

 

[deleted113029]

an F in orgo I at NCSU?! that is something that an adcom will not overlook. there's a reason why orgo is the weed out class for premeds. your outcome is a result of NOT studying; not doing chapter problems, going to lecture, reading the chapters, etc. No one goes through Orgo with an F without being a major contributor. your premed advisor's comment about podiatry is not so far-fetched.

the F in orgo while taking Calc I and Bio II is a red flag. Medschool curriculum is challenging to say the least and adcoms want to see you're able to handle difficult course loads. People who have applied & been admitted have definitely succeeded in getting B's and A's in those classes concurrently.

of all the people here, i'm gonna go out on a limb and say you've screwed yourself. UNLESS you get a B or better in your Orgo I retake and Orgo II, then you will have a very difficult time getting into medschool. i agree with someone earlier stating not to retake over the summer...wanna screw yourself a second time?

something tells me you're a "potential" student with some motivational problems. you sound like a smart person who will succeed in life IF you put your mind to it. good luck.

 

[1Path]

of all the people here, i'm gonna go out on a limb and say you've screwed yourself. :

Sometimes I wonder if people are as big a jack ass in person as they are on the internet. Yeah................

To the OP, my advice as one of the few people on SDN who flunked prequisite courses yet managed to get acepted to med school is this:

1) Hopefully by this point, you either dropped the course or took an incomplete. If you didn't, then definitely DON"T take the course over the summer.

2) DEFINITELY audit the course over the summer then take it for credit in the Fall. Or audit it this Fall, but if I were you I wouldn't take it again until I had done that. While auditing the course, meet with the prof on the regular so you can get a better understanding of where you're going wrong. Then do practice problems indefinitely until the class is over.

3) The absolute best book of organic chemistry in my humble opinion is by Fesseden and Fesseden. A close second is by Carey. Be sure to get the workbook and answerbooks too.

4) I should also mention that I not only passed Orgo, but I earned both a Bachelor's and Master's degree in Chemistry. The ONLY things that changed were my attitude and my study habits, so tune out EVERYONE that says you can't overcome this because you can when you decide you want to.

Finally as a Chapel Hill alum, I can tell you that getting in there is going to be pretty difficult even if you hadn't earned an "F", but certainly give it a shot if that's what you want.

All the best!

 

[deleted113029]

Alright, Here goes:

I'm taking Bio II, Orgo Chem I, Calc I and a PE class this semester. I know that I am going to fail Orgo, but I will be making a B (maybe A) in Bio, and A's in the other classes. Also my transfer GPA from the CC was 3.2. I am going to retake Orgo during Summer session. I also am a part-time phlebotomist (working 25 hours a week), and I also landed an undergrad research position in a Neuro lab on campus for next year. I will be taking the MCAT in the spring of next year, I have been scoring between 32-34 on practice tests.

I talked to someone in my PreMed advising office today and she said I would be a good podiatry applicant. Not to say that it is a horrible careerfield--but I am more interested in Neuro...not feet so much.

So, I'm half way through my B.S. Biological Sciences degree (minor in Sociology).

Have I already screwed myself over for Med school or what?

>>I want to apply to UNC-Carolina MS, Brody MS, and Wake Forest MS.

---Thank you in advance for any replies or suggestions.

an F in orgo I at NCSU?! that is something that an adcom will not overlook. there's a reason why orgo is the weed out class for premeds. your outcome is a result of NOT studying; not doing chapter problems, going to lecture, reading the chapters, etc. No one goes through Orgo with an F without being a major contributor. your premed advisor's comment about podiatry is not so far-fetched.

the F in orgo while taking Calc I and Bio II is a red flag. Medschool curriculum is challenging to say the least and adcoms want to see you're able to handle difficult course loads. People who have applied & been admitted have definitely succeeded in getting B's and A's in those classes concurrently.

of all the people here, i'm gonna go out on a limb and say you've screwed yourself. UNLESS you get a B or better in your Orgo I retake and Orgo II, then you will have a very difficult time getting into medschool. i agree with someone earlier stating not to retake over the summer...wanna screw yourself a second time?

something tells me you're a "potential" studentwith some motivational problems. you sound like a smart person who will succeed in life IF you put your mind to it. good luck.

Sometimes I wonder if people are as big a jack ass in person as they are on the internet. Yeah................

To the OP, my advice as one of the few people on SDN who flunked prequisite courses yet managed to get acepted to med school is this:

1) Hopefully by this point, you either dropped the course or took an incomplete. If you didn't, then definitely DON"T take the course over the summer.

2) DEFINITELY audit the course over the summer then take it for credit in the Fall. Or audit it this Fall, but if I were you I wouldn't take it again until I had done that. While auditing the course, meet with the prof on the regular so you can get a better understanding of where you're going wrong. Then do practice problems indefinitely until the class is over.

3) The absolute best book of organic chemistry in my humble opinion is by Fesseden and Fesseden. A close second is by Carey. Be sure to get the workbook and answerbooks too.

4) I should also mention that I not only passed Orgo, but I earned both a Bachelor's and Master's degree in Chemistry. The ONLY things that changed were my attitude and my study habits, so tune out EVERYONE that says you can't overcome this because you can when you decide you want to.

Finally as a Chapel Hill alum, I can tell you that getting in there is going to be pretty difficult even if you hadn't earned an "F", but certainly give it a shot if that's what you want.

All the best!

if you read my last comments, where do i say anything negative about the OP? in fact, where in my reply do i say anything mean? me a jerk? i do not sugarcoat things as you do...just look at your last comment. you giving false hope is worse than me being a 'jerk.'

peace.

 

[1Path]

if you read my last comments, where do i say anything negative about the OP? in fact, where in my reply do i say anything mean? me a jerk? i do not sugarcoat things as you do...just look at your last comment. you giving false hope is worse than me being a 'jerk.'
peace.

Ok, so the "jerk" comment may have been a little strong but I guess if I had a dollar for every JERK who told me I couldn't, wouldn't, shouldn't do ANYTHING, I'd be a gazillionare by now.

So I'll let you choose the word for saying I'm giving the OP false hope. Bottom line is that neither you nor I can say for sure what the OP will or will not do since the "fat lady" is far from having her encore in this situation.

It's not sugarcoating things to say that WHEN ( ) the OP gets her/his act together, aces the rest of the premed prequites, then blows out the MCAT, that an acceptance to Chapel Hil, THE best public Med school on the east coast, is an impossibility. The dude or dudette is former military (hopefully navy ) so I seriously doubt a med school acceptance can't be had one day.