Have you ever had that one amazing professor in undergrad where you question why they didn't go MS?

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Pre Med MF

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My question is if you've ever had that one inspiring, well educated science professor during your pre-med, you start wondering where they didn't just go "all the way" and become a doctor?

I'm taking Organic Chemistry with a wise 65 year old and i can't stop thinking how you would've been an excellent physician.
 
Uhh...because everyone's goal in life isn't to be a physician. Don't get yourself caught up in a superiority complex where anyone who isn't a physician is inferior/dumber/less intelligent.

Thanks for the kind reminder. I definitely don’t feel superior to anyone. Just asking the forum for opinions if they ever felt this way before in a humble manner of course.
 
Do you not realize that phds doing research is the driving force of modern medicine. Phds and professors are doctors in their fields whereas MD/DO are just doctors in applied science fields.
Who do you think finds cures to disease and creates antibiotics and medications: the Biologist, chemists ect. The road to becoming a phd is sometimes way harder and sometimes even longer than 4 years of medical school. A MD is a "doctorate" degree just like a phd or a jd or a dpm or a dpt. Every single successful medical doctor owes their education and success in some part to their professors who had phds.
Medicine would still be in the dark ages without biologists and scientists.

Where would medicine be without phds such as Marie Curie who sacrificed her health researching radiation to help discover xrays?
How about you ask Marie Curie why she "didnt go all the way and become a doctor"
 
I still remember sitting down with one of my professors that was going to write me a letter of rec and he was trying to convince me to go Ph.D instead. In his mind going "all the way" was probably that route. Chances are your organic chemistry professor didn't want to be a physician
 
My question is if you've ever had that one inspiring, well educated science professor during your pre-med, you start wondering where they didn't just go "all the way" and become a doctor?

I'm taking Organic Chemistry with a wise 65 year old and i can't stop thinking how you would've been an excellent physician.
I was once teaching a small group of OMSIIIs with a clinician colleague, and after throwing out some bon mot, she said, "Goro, you're so smart! You should go to medical school!"

With skipping a beat I sad "**** that! I'm too old and fat for that sort of nonsense!"

I was was pre-med for maybe ten minutes in UG. I know that this will destroy your belief system, and I hope you're sitting down: not everybody wants to be a doctor.
 
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My question is if you've ever had that one inspiring, well educated science professor during your pre-med, you start wondering where they didn't just go "all the way" and become a doctor?

I'm taking Organic Chemistry with a wise 65 year old and i can't stop thinking how you would've been an excellent physician.

these people teaching you are doctors... good luck getting a LOR from these ‘sellouts’. The faster you can lose this attitude the happier you’ll be. Seriously...
 
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My question is if you've ever had that one inspiring, well educated science professor during your pre-med, you start wondering where they didn't just go "all the way" and become a doctor?

I'm taking Organic Chemistry with a wise 65 year old and i can't stop thinking how you would've been an excellent physician.

Becoming an MD/DO is a lot easier than becoming a tenured professor.
 
I'm pretty sure M.Ds stole the term "Doctor" (edit: it was a white coat not the term doctor lol) from Ph.Ds to legitimize themselves. Kinda like how nurses are doing now to M.Ds..

Anyway, very few of the smartest people I know want to become doctors. Occupation isn't a way to measure somebody's worth. Even it did, to be honest, I think Ph.Ds tend to be higher on the totem pole than M.Ds anyway.
 
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“All the way” implies becoming a doctor is the end goal of all professions lol. No, I never ask why they didn’t become MDs, because they obviously had their own reasons. Not being good enough is unlikely to be a reason, since they’re PhDs. And tenure is HARD to get.
 
I was once teaching a small group of OMSIIIs with a clinician colleague, and after throwing out some bon mot, she said, "Gor o, you're dsop smart! You should go to medical school!"

With skipping a beat I sad "**** that! I'm too old and fat for that sort of nonsense!"

I was was pre-med for maybe ten minutes in UG. I know that this will destroy your belief system, and I hope you're sitting down: not everybody wants to be a doctor.
But... Grey’s Anatomy?
 
Even it did, to be honest, I think Ph.Ds tend to be higher on the totem pole than M.Ds anyway.

Not in the public’s eye. A doctor is a physician. A PhD is someone who likes science but couldn’t hack it in med school.

Note: I don’t feel this way (my sister just got her PhD, and I’m super proud of her), but a lot of people do.
 
I'm pretty sure M.Ds stole the term "Doctor" from Ph.Ds to legitimize themselves.

I’m interested in the evidence for this? I could see how doctors in the 1800s would have had to legitimize themselves since their duties were basically to provide first aid more or less, with some treatments that might help or kill the patient (bloodletting, for example).

However, the idea of a doctor is that he or she is an expert in their field. A PhD in biochemistry means the person is an expert in biochemistry. You would go to them for questions about it, and you’d trust what they tell you without much doubt. Similarly, MDs are experts in medicine. You go to them for questions about health, disease, and treatment. You’d trust their advice and answers.

Socially, no a PhD in chemistry is not seen as “higher” than an MD.
 
I’m interested in the evidence for this? I could see how doctors in the 1800s would have had to legitimize themselves since their duties were basically to provide first aid more or less, with some treatments that might help or kill the patient (bloodletting, for example).

However, the idea of a doctor is that he or she is an expert in their field. A PhD in biochemistry means the person is an expert in biochemistry. You would go to them for questions about it, and you’d trust what they tell you without much doubt. Similarly, MDs are experts in medicine. You go to them for questions about health, disease, and treatment. You’d trust their advice and answers.

Socially, no a PhD in chemistry is not seen as “higher” than an MD.
I'm pretty sure M.Ds stole the term "Doctor" from Ph.Ds to legitimize themselves. Kinda like how nurses are doing now to M.Ds..

Anyway, very few of the smartest people I know want to become doctors. Occupation isn't a way to measure somebody's worth. Even it did, to be honest, I think Ph.Ds tend to be higher on the totem pole than M.Ds anyway.


While the PhD degree came first, medieval European universities basically existed to train physicians, lawyers, theologians and priests. Natural sciences and engineering joined the fray but the term “natural philosophy” still referred to what we now know as “STEM” for centuries. “Doctor” as a Latin term just means “teacher” and part of the terminal degree was receiving a license to teach the subject. Early PhDs didnt even do any research or produce dissertations for the first several centuries, they simply had to pass examinations to certify them as knowledgeable in their subject. So Doctor of Medicine was the original doctorate but was not really a professional degree in the way that it is now as quite a lot of people without degrees practiced what we might call today Medicine or surgery at a professional level (barber surgeons, alienists) by becoming an apprentice to a member of the trade. It took quite a few centuries for the whole enterprise to become recognizably professional across Europe, probably not until the late Middle Ages. Even then, there was a massive turf war between the priests and physicians as to who was best equipped to treat some diseases, particularly cognitive and mental ones like hallucinations/chorea/schizoid disorders/depression (see Andrew Scull's excellent book Madness and Civilization). This was the result over arguments about whether humans were entirely material, or not, or something in between; whether or not certain mental and physical disorders were caused by possession or sin or distraction or sloth or "humors".

Also, medieval doctors didn't just do "basically first aid" and bloodletting. Don't get me wrong, medieval and victorian medicine especially surgery was pretty barbaric (see The Butchering Art), but that doesn't mean that people werent making a concerted effort to make discoveries and learn things about the human body. In China, around 200 BC systematic forms of medical education were already being taught (the earliest textbook being the Yellow Emperor's Classic of Internal Medicine). Of course, a lot of the theory here was not based on experimental or evidentiary science (a lot of Traditional Chinese Medicine is based on Chinese Cosmology, believe it or not, which was a lot more robust itself as a science than TCM in relative terms) but it was a theory. The classical Islamic world is responsible for retaining most of the information from classical western civilization and reintroducing it back to Europe in the Middle-Ages. At that time, Islamic natural philosophers like Ibn-Sina (Avicenna in the Romanticized form) were publishing books on anatomy and physiology and case studies of patients using methods that would be closer to modern science than would be seen in Medieval Europe for some centuries. India had medical universities thousands of years before Europe, etc.

tl;dr: PhD came first but MDs and PhDs were not understood to be doing anywhere near similar things until the twentieth century and they would have never been in competition for credibility in any way.

The modern “MD” professional degree originated in 17th century Scotland and was imported to North America by first Columbia P&S and later Harvard, Yale.
 
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My question is if you've ever had that one inspiring, well educated science professor during your pre-med, you start wondering where they didn't just go "all the way" and become a doctor?

I'm taking Organic Chemistry with a wise 65 year old and i can't stop thinking how you would've been an excellent physician.

You should ask him this. He might give you extra credit
 
Uhh...because everyone's goal in life isn't to be a physician. Don't get yourself caught up in a superiority complex where anyone who isn't a physician is inferior/dumber/less intelligent.

Exactly this. One of my good friends is a chemistry major and wants to become a chemistry professor and do research. He is a tutor for chemistry classes at my school. I used to work with him when I was also a tutor. All As in his chemistry classes even the p chems and advanced chemistry classes. Never met a better tutor. He knows his stuff and can really teach it. Very high science gpa in the other sciences as well. As in all the maths too. Very smart. He thought about healthcare but really loves teaching and chemistry research. It’s so funny how people think if you’re a professor, work in research, or any other position in healthcare you just weren’t good enough. Healthcare or being a doctor just isn’t what some people are passionate about. Also got another friend with a 3.8+ GPA who decided on PA school. He just didn’t want to go to med school for 10 years and PA side of medicine is what he liked more.
 
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Thanks for the kind reminder. I definitely don’t feel superior to anyone. Just asking the forum for opinions if they ever felt this way before in a humble manner of course.

You’re stupid. But I say that in a humble way of course.
 
My question is if you've ever had that one inspiring, well educated science professor during your pre-med, you start wondering where they didn't just go "all the way" and become a doctor?

I'm taking Organic Chemistry with a wise 65 year old and i can't stop thinking how you would've been an excellent physician.
Because being a physician is a relatively shallow intellectual field in comparison to being a PhD-level professor
 
I'm pretty sure M.Ds stole the term "Doctor" from Ph.Ds to legitimize themselves. Kinda like how nurses are doing now to M.Ds..

Anyway, very few of the smartest people I know want to become doctors. Occupation isn't a way to measure somebody's worth. Even it did, to be honest, I think Ph.Ds tend to be higher on the totem pole than M.Ds anyway.
We stole the white coat from scientists, but the term doctor was originally used by the authorized teaching members of guilds, not by universities.
 
PhDs are super important, but it's also worth noting that there is an absolutely massive range in the level of rigor between PhDs. Some programs, absolutely anybody could get into, while others are more selective than most med schools.

I've met PhDs in math/physics who are more intellectually intimidating than anyone in medicine, but I've met a PhD in gender studies who would break down crying when attempting to debate a particularly sharp middle schooler (in her own area of "expertise") and who quite possibly didn't have to deal with a single falsifiable piece of information in her entire curriculum.

A PhD isn't a PhD isn't a PhD.
 
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Welp, this thread was a big fail but also an eye opener for me. I know professors choose their PHD for the passion of teaching and how a MD isn’t everyone’s end goal.

After all without professors there’d be nobody to spread knowledge to. My apologizes if I offended anyone. I meant it as more of a compliment to my professor than attacking his choice of career.
 
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Some people just love teaching. When I took it this year, I actually really enjoyed teaching O.Chem material to a couple students that weren't studying or paying attention in their lecture. I can see how someone might be more satisfied teaching others.

Also, organic chem scientists are often more interested in synthesis of compounds and working in the lab. They wouldn't see much of this (O. chem) material in Med School.
 
Some people just love teaching. When I took it this year, I actually really enjoyed teaching O.Chem material to a couple students that weren't studying or paying attention in their lecture. I can see how someone might be more satisfied teaching others.

Also, organic chem scientists are often more interested in synthesis of compounds and working in the lab. They wouldn't see much of this (O. chem) material in Med School.
I found my niche in life in teaching!
 
The underlying assumption with your thought process is that medicine (specifically physicians) is the best career out there and it is at the top of the totem pole. I'm biased and also think that as a career, it's the best, but that doesn't mean it is at the top and above other people. I had some genius friends in undergrad who were pre-meds, now they are some of the most successful attorneys and investment bankers out there and some of them make more in a year than some doctors will make in a decade. Same thing applies for the biological sciences... yes, medicine and the biological sciences complement each other and are interrelated, but that does not mean that a career as a physician puts you at the pinnacle of every field in the biological sciences. You have to remember, medicine is not just hard biological science, but is also an art form. Just because you know every single thing about medicine, it does not mean you will be a great doctor. You have to also master how to communicate well with patients and your medical team. You have to know how to talk to people, you have to have a certain level of sensitivity, and sometimes, the hours are ridiculous... it's not for everyone. Some people prefer to be in the lab and on the cutting edge of new developments... others like to be in the classroom educating students about a topic that they are passionate about.
 
People have different lifestyles. My school's pre-medicine adviser is so knowledgeable on the application process, because he wants to help others get to medical school. Your professor could just want to help set up students for success.
 
People have different lifestyles. My school's pre-medicine adviser is so knowledgeable on the application process, because he wants to help others get to medical school. Your professor could just want to help set up students for success.
My premed advisor is like this too. She was pre-Med at one point but decided is wasn’t for her, and got her PhD instead. The only thing I’ve ever thought about her choice is to be grateful that she chose another path and I ended up under her advisement.

I also have a friend who makes straight As like they’re a piece of cake in the hardest classes. She chose medical laboratory science instead of Med school because she doesn’t like people, and she doesn’t want to go through several more years of training. Whatever lab gets her will have an excellent employee.
 
We stole the white coat from scientists, but the term doctor was originally used by the authorized teaching members of guilds, not by universities.

Aah I think you're right actually about the white coat thing. I mixed it up - woops.
 
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