Having second thoughts about DO school

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EarthToDoc

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I submitted my primary last week. Gathering all the letters and preparing for the MCAT (2 weeks) has stressed the hell out of me. I read on a few of the websites for the schools about the secondary questions. The ones that ask about why you want to be an osteopathic physician or why you want to practice osteopathic medicine. When I try to answer this question I feel sick to my stomach because I have no truthful answer, I don't care about osteopathic medicine or OMT, I just want to be a doctor. Unfortunately I have been told this well keep you out.

I do not want to start my medical career with a lie and I am getting stressed out at the beginning I can only imagine how bad the rest of it could be. I don't know if I can handle being marginalized for the rest of my life because I chose osteopathic medicine and not being good enough for MD school. My stats are not impressive enough to go to an MD school, so I was thinking if I should do a masters?

Please do not take this as offensive to osteopathic physicians or DOs, as my favorite physician is a DO. This is a weakness in me and I was wondering if anybody else felt this way. Any insight is appreciated.
 
EarthToDoc said:
I submitted my primary last week. Gathering all the letters and preparing for the MCAT (2 weeks) has stressed the hell out of me. I read on a few of the websites for the schools about the secondary questions. The ones that ask about why you want to be an osteopathic physician or why you want to practice osteopathic medicine. When I try to answer this question I feel sick to my stomach because I have no truthful answer, I don't care about osteopathic medicine or OMT, I just want to be a doctor. Unfortunately I have been told this well keep you out.

I do not want to start my medical career with a lie and I am getting stressed out at the beginning I can only imagine how bad the rest of it could be. I don't know if I can handle being marginalized for the rest of my life because I chose osteopathic medicine and not being good enough for MD school. My stats are not impressive enough to go to an MD school, so I was thinking if I should do a masters?

Please do not take this as offensive to osteopathic physicians or DOs, as my favorite physician is a DO. This is a weakness in me and I was wondering if anybody else felt this way. Any insight is appreciated.
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I would read the dos by Norman gevitz. Should give you insight and hopefully make you realize why you might want to be a do. Another possibility is to shadow a do and that might help you also.

As a side note dos aren't inferior to MDS. Its easier to get an MD degree then it is a do degree.

If at the end of all this you still don't want to be a do (even if your reasons are silly) then I would suggest to continue to bolster your app to get MD. Its gonna take a lot longer to do that but you're gonna be whatever you decide (do or md) for the rest of your life.
 
You will not be marginalized as a DO.

I'd suggest what @DoctorSynthesis suggested reading as well as really take some time to meet osteopathic physicians. Get in touch with students to see if you can settle those doubts.

If not, shoot for that postbac/SMP to get into the MD programs.
 
AlteredScale said:
You will not be marginalized as a DO.

I'd suggest what @DoctorSynthesis suggested reading as well as really take some time to meet osteopathic physicians. Get in touch with students to see if you can settle those doubts.

If not, shoot for that postbac/SMP to get into the MD programs.
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I'm actually currently reading the book being that a do school suggested for me to read it. I really like it so far as it gives an unbiased opinion on the profession.
 
A little homework assignment:
Draw up a list comparing and contrasting osteopathic medicine vs allopathic medicine.

If you have shadowed a DO and an MD, what two unique things did you learnfrom or about each?

There you have the answers to your secondaries.

Just avoid quoting Wiki word for word, OK?

EarthToDoc said:
I submitted my primary last week. Gathering all the letters and preparing for the MCAT (2 weeks) has stressed the hell out of me. I read on a few of the websites for the schools about the secondary questions. The ones that ask about why you want to be an osteopathic physician or why you want to practice osteopathic medicine. When I try to answer this question I feel sick to my stomach because I have no truthful answer, I don't care about osteopathic medicine or OMT, I just want to be a doctor. Unfortunately I have been told this well keep you out.

I do not want to start my medical career with a lie and I am getting stressed out at the beginning I can only imagine how bad the rest of it could be. I don't know if I can handle being marginalized for the rest of my life because I chose osteopathic medicine and not being good enough for MD school. My stats are not impressive enough to go to an MD school, so I was thinking if I should do a masters?

Please do not take this as offensive to osteopathic physicians or DOs, as my favorite physician is a DO. This is a weakness in me and I was wondering if anybody else felt this way. Any insight is appreciated.
Click to expand...
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
I'm actually currently reading the book being that a do school suggested for me to read it. I really like it so far as it gives an unbiased opinion on the profession.
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I saw that book at Barnes and Nobles and really wanted to get it. Unfortunately I have to wait until next pay cycle to get it.
 
AlteredScale said:
I saw that book at Barnes and Nobles and really wanted to get it. Unfortunately I have to wait until next pay cycle to get it.
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AlteredScale said:
I saw that book at Barnes and Nobles and really wanted to get it. Unfortunately I have to wait until next pay cycle to get it.
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I bought it used off of amazon for like 15. Compared to the cost of just applying to schools I think its a worth while investment. 🙂
 
Do you know anything about OMT? It's actually pretty interesting and a great way to work on palpatory skills/getting comfortable touching other people. Of course there's nothing that says you have to use OMT in your future practice.

Is it worth another 2-3 years of further prep before you attempt admission to an MD school? Well, that's up to you. I know that I wouldn't (didn't) want to when the opportunity cost was $500,000+.

I get that you don't want to "settle" for a DO degree, but when you realize that your education is almost precisely the same as your MD counterparts... the letters don't make such a difference. If you would never be secure as a DO, though, ... don't go to an osteopathic school! Simple.
 
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I will read the book as soon as I take my MCAT. Goro I wish I could compare the two but I shadowed an MD surgeon and a DO ER physician. Comparing the DO to the other MDs in the ER, there were absolutely no differences (as far as I could tell). It gets worse because when I asked the doctor what is osteopathic medicine about he practically quoted the whole "holistic medicine" junk. Although he did mention that OMT can be handy at times, he chose not to use it. Perhaps I need to find general physicians to shadow.

I do not mean that DOs are inferior at all when I say marginalized. I just don't like being different. I hear physicians saying there is no difference between MD and DO but from reading the posts of the AOA all I hear is about how unique "osteopathic medicine" is, they keep making me think in a certain way that DOs are different. When I first heard the whole thing about "holistic" medicine, I was like that's a no-brainer, you're telling me that MDs don't consider that.

I guess I will have to shadow some more to understand.
 
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EarthToDoc said:
I submitted my primary last week. Gathering all the letters and preparing for the MCAT (2 weeks) has stressed the hell out of me. I read on a few of the websites for the schools about the secondary questions. The ones that ask about why you want to be an osteopathic physician or why you want to practice osteopathic medicine. When I try to answer this question I feel sick to my stomach because I have no truthful answer, I don't care about osteopathic medicine or OMT, I just want to be a doctor. Unfortunately I have been told this well keep you out.

I do not want to start my medical career with a lie and I am getting stressed out at the beginning I can only imagine how bad the rest of it could be. I don't know if I can handle being marginalized for the rest of my life because I chose osteopathic medicine and not being good enough for MD school. My stats are not impressive enough to go to an MD school, so I was thinking if I should do a masters?

Please do not take this as offensive to osteopathic physicians or DOs, as my favorite physician is a DO. This is a weakness in me and I was wondering if anybody else felt this way. Any insight is appreciated.
Click to expand...
You can write an essay about how you believe in becoming a physician first and foremost and yet be able to articulate positive aspects of Osteopathic Medicine. People won't take offense to someone saying that the professions are equal and complimenting positive aspects of DO. Don't feel you need to lie to get in. For example, I believe both professions are equal, but I appreciate being in an environment that has an underlying philosophy that is patient centered and that learning OMT can help me with palpatory skills.
 
EarthToDoc said:
I will read the book as soon as I take my MCAT. Goro I wish I could compare the two but I shadowed an MD surgeon and a DO ER physician. Comparing the DO to the other MDs in the ER, there were absolutely no differences (as far as I could tell). It gets worse because when I asked the doctor what is osteopathic medicine about he practically quoted the whole "holistic medicine" junk. Although he did mention that OMT can be handy at times, he chose not to use it. Perhaps I need to find general physicians to shadow.

I do not mean that DOs are inferior at all when I say marginalized. I just don't like being different. I hear physicians saying there is no difference between MD and DO but from reading the posts of the AOA all I hear is about how unique "osteopathic medicine" is, they keep making me think in a certain way that DOs are different. When I first heard the whole thing about "holistic" medicine, I was like that's a no-brainer, you're telling me that MDs don't consider that.

I guess I will have to shadow some more to understand.
Click to expand...

If you haven't even taken the MCAT yet I would suggest for you to focus on that and not worry about the whole md vs do thing for now.
 
EarthToDoc said:
I will read the book as soon as I take my MCAT. Goro I wish I could compare the two but I shadowed an MD surgeon and a DO ER physician. Comparing the DO to the other MDs in the ER, there were absolutely no differences (as far as I could tell). It gets worse because when I asked the doctor what is osteopathic medicine about he practically quoted the whole "holistic medicine" junk. Although he did mention that OMT can be handy at times, he chose not to use it. Perhaps I need to find general physicians to shadow.

I do not mean that DOs are inferior at all when I say marginalized. I just don't like being different. I hear physicians saying there is no difference between MD and DO but from reading the posts of the AOA all I hear is about how unique "osteopathic medicine" is, they keep making me think in a certain way that DOs are different. When I first heard the whole thing about "holistic" medicine, I was like that's a no-brainer, you're telling me that MDs don't consider that.

I guess I will have to shadow some more to understand.
Click to expand...

If you can, shadow a DO who is in FM or Primary care who uses OMT in their practice. That'll really give you a run for your money when it comes to seeing a difference in their approach and may perhaps add some additionally perspective to help guide you 🙂
 
At the end of the day, you are a doctor. If you don't like OMT, you can do a MD residency and never have anything to do with the DO profession again (this is probably what 60% of DOs do).

And the "DO philosophy" shouldn't make anyone sick. MDs agree with "holistic" healthcare too.

The only people in your entire life who will ever care whether you are a MD or a DO are ignorant pre-meds.

But, if you'd rather spend a few more years building up your app before you enter med school and are okay with being that much older before you earn a real income, go for it.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
It just feels right using that money for this book.
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Definitely! Incredibly rich history, albeit that Still was a bit of an eccentric at times. I do find it really interesting that Gevitz also started the book by explaining the old "eclectic" medical schools and things like magnetism and hydrotherapy.... Just goes to show that osteopathy has a solid foundation and utility to make it last unlike the many other theories presented.
 
osteohack10 said:
Definitely! Incredibly rich history, albeit that Still was a bit of an eccentric at times. I do find it really interesting that Gevitz also started the book by explaining the old "eclectic" medical schools and things like magnetism and hydrotherapy.... Just goes to show that osteopathy has a solid foundation and utility to make it last unlike the many other theories presented.
Click to expand...

I think gevitz mentioned the homeopathy was the only one that was kinda close? I'm actually reading it right now and I'm so far loving the book.
 
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EarthToDoc said:
Please do not take this as offensive to osteopathic physicians or DOs, as my favorite physician is a DO.
Click to expand...

This is one of my top reasons for choosing DO over MD. I work with several really awesome DOs, almost all of whom came from 2 schools. Looking up to those particular docs got me started thinking about applying primarily to DO schools.

If you have a DO who is a role model, that can be a reason to want to give those schools a try.

No one has to justify "why allopathic?" I think that putting too much emphasis on "why osteo?" is the cause of the overstatement of the differences between them. Just talk about how you want to be a physician, and knowing a good physician who is a DO set you down this path vs. the other.
 
AlbinoHawk DO said:
You can write an essay about how you believe in becoming a physician first and foremost and yet be able to articulate positive aspects of Osteopathic Medicine. People won't take offense to someone saying that the professions are equal and complimenting positive aspects of DO. Don't feel you need to lie to get in. For example, I believe both professions are equal, but I appreciate being in an environment that has an underlying philosophy that is patient centered and that learning OMT can help me with palpatory skills.
Click to expand...

This is what I did for both secondaries and interviews last cycle. It seemed to work out for me.
 
Don't base your opinion on DOs based off an online forum like SDN, which btw is full of obnoxious and stuck up "pre"-medical students. Go and get your own independant perspective/opinion by shadowing some more DOs. If your heart is set on going to MD school, nothing wrong with that. You will simply have to improve your application to meet their requirements. That means spending more years + more money. DOs and MDs are essentially the same, except for the additional OMT training the former receives. This whole holistic approach is a matter of a physician's personal choice/beliefs. Although, DO schools do emphasize this approach.
 
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AlbinoHawk DO said:
You can write an essay about how you believe in becoming a physician first and foremost and yet be able to articulate positive aspects of Osteopathic Medicine. People won't take offense to someone saying that the professions are equal and complimenting positive aspects of DO. Don't feel you need to lie to get in. For example, I believe both professions are equal, but I appreciate being in an environment that has an underlying philosophy that is patient centered and that learning OMT can help me with palpatory skills.
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I did as well. I even wrote about how the DO (emergency doc as well) who I shadowed said that it's not the degree that makes a difference; it's the person and the effort they put into their own education. And then I wrote about finding the school with the philosophy that was the best fit for me.
 
I am currently rotating through surgery at an 800+ bed Level 1 Trauma hospital. Took this photo in the locker room shared by surgeons, anesthesiologists and radiologists because it really put this whole never ending MD vs DO thing into very sharp perspective..

rsz_mdo1 (2).jpg


Don't let that certain contingent of the SDN crowd get to you. Work hard and get your name on a locker..
 
I just have to laugh every time I see one of these threads... How can someone be so "committed" to medicine if they are so consumed with merely the letters after their name? Shouldn't they be concerned about the actual medical education they receive? Their personal desire to interact with patients? What about their own ability to be good at their job and contribute to their community? In my own limited experience I have seen year after year of people just give up rather than taking the initiative to utilize all the options available to them. They end up sitting around for years probably talking about "If only I had done this, this, or this." The reality is, if they were really committed to medicine they would utilize the resources available to practice it. That's why I don't understand how anyone can fault someone that went overseas, or to the Caribbean, or to a low-tier school, or whatever the deal is. Everyone that struggled wanted to be a doctor more than any other option. What's more committed than unwavering resolve in the presence of adversity? That's the end of the story.

With that said there are some legitimate, albeit more subtle, reasons to "prefer" MD over DO, but they are entirely based on the schools you are looking at. Much like other professions, connections usually end up being the name of the game, and it is hard to deny the differences in flow of money and recognition at certain institutions. For most however, this won't matter. The liquidity of your position as a medical student, resident, fellow, etc. increases over time; you certainly aren't limited to the scope of the location of your preclinical years.
 
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DoctorSynthesis said:
If you still have that MCAT amazon gift card this could be a perfect use for that.
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Haha I actually already used it on a Gypsy Jazz composition study book. If anyone else doesn't plan on using theirs you can PM me! 😛
 
kalat said:
With that said there are some legitimate, albeit more subtle, reasons to "prefer" MD over DO, but they are entirely based on the schools you are looking at. Much like other professions, connections usually end up being the name of the game, and it is hard to deny the differences in flow of money and recognition at certain institutions. For most however, this won't matter.
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True enough. Even my "preference for DO over MD" is really about preferring 2-3 schools over a few other possibilities, not really about one flavor of physician vs another. Our OR locker room looks much the same as the one above. Except holy crap are those small lockers for the doctors. Those are nurse-sized lockers. The ones in our physician locker room are practically small self-storage units.
 
Chiroptile said:
I am currently rotating through surgery at an 800+ bed Level 1 Trauma hospital. Took this photo in the locker room shared by surgeons, anesthesiologists and radiologists because it really put this whole never ending MD vs DO thing into very sharp perspective..

View attachment 183929

Don't let that certain contingent of the SDN crowd get to you. Work hard and get your name on a locker..
Click to expand...

This should be shared...and shared.
 
If your gpa is bad and your mcat turns out decent, like a 32, then you might want to consider a SMP.
 
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I now dream of havinz my ownz corner locker. :happy:
 
On a more nuts and bolts level, you don't necessarily have to demonstrate an overwhelming commitment to osteopathic medicine. In my essays and interviews I addressed the subject as truthfully as I could without understatement or exaggeration. I believe osteopathic medicine has a little more focus on producing doctors that tend to view the patient a little more "holistically," for lack of a better word. This is based off of my own experience with D.O.s, not based off of the AOA or whatever. As for OMM in particular, I just see it as another tool in your belt to help take care of patients so why not learn it and use it? I have seen it used in a family practice and I can see how useful it is in certain situations.

I got accepted to all of the schools I interviewed at and I don't feel like I demonstrated any kind of strong desire specifically for osteopathic medicine. When I was asked the, "Why DO?" question I responded honestly and OMM/osteopathy were minor reasons. Instead, I focused on making it clear that I have a strong desire and commitment to becoming a physician. MD, DO, whatever, I just want to be able to be a good physician and take care of people who need it. I also had a few other reasons, I got a 32 MCAT and could have applied M.D. but without grade replacement my GPA would have been a bit worse, making D.O. a more sure route. I'm a non trad with a family and can't be wasting any time and once you get out of your twenties it seems like that whole "prestige" thing with the letters after your name becomes rather petty. So that was never important to me, what is important to me is becoming a good doctor and I have every confidence that the D.O. school I am attending will help me to achieve that in a way that fits with my particular personality and situation.

So again, in short, make your desire to become a doctor your focus rather than feeding them full of how passionate you are about osteopathic medicine if you really aren't. With that in mind, maybe you shouldn't worry so much about, "why osteopathy?" and instead see it as, "why are you taking this route?" Of course you have to be able to demonstrate an understanding and acceptance of osteopathic medicine, but I honestly never felt like they wanted to see a fanatical devotion or something. It helps to have some concrete examples or stories of experiences with D.O.'s. When I first started looking into all of this I was one of those, "what is a D.O.?" kind of people. Because when my wife and I moved into the area and asked family and friends for physician recommendations, nearly every one of them was a D.O. When I talk to respiratory techs, X-ray techs, ER techs, etc., and they find out I am going to a D.O. school they always make comments like, "Oh good, I love the D.O.s I work with they are so much easier to work with than the M.D.s," hey I didn't say it, they did. 😀
 
2 Things you might want to consider (for what it's worth I chose DO over MD without a second thought despite having MD #s).

#1 Everyone goes through life with a lot of automatic psychological filters. Depending on what individuals unconsciously filter for, they can be left with the impression of an event either being wonderful, terrible, or something in between. The role these filter systems play in daily life is enormous (ie. I'd argue this dictates a lot of the courtship process).
One game I've had for myself is trying to alter my base filters to find positive value in every situation or thing I'm exposed to.
In your situation, if you can bring yourself to consider this notion, then even if you never intend to practice OMM AND consider most of it to be pseudo scientific BS (in other words about the most negative bias you could have on OMM), and you never alter those beliefs, there is still a lot of positive value you can extract from learning OMM, provided your mind is primed to look for it.
For instance, dynamic anatomy is extremely valuable to know, but almost most anatomy taught to non DO medical students is static anatomy. The OMM curriculum (at least at my school) is designed to teach a lot of clinically valuable knowledge/development in addition to just what is needed to do OMM. I know I am repeating myself, but if you can change your filters bias a little bit, you can find a lot of that.
In addition to that, a lot of medical students come in being highly skeptical of OMM, and then once they work with it decide it actually is very good.

#2 Many DOs that practice do not appear different from MDs, but many also embody vary shades of the distinctions between MDs and DOs (ie. being more holistic rather than just paying it lip service). It sounds like you shadowed a less osteopathic DO, but if you spent more time exploring it, you'd see that single example was not sufficient to generalize the entire dataset. I have talked to a lot of of people about their shadowing observations/osteopathic physician exposure, and noticeable differences were very commonly observed.
 
Chiroptile said:
I am currently rotating through surgery at an 800+ bed Level 1 Trauma hospital. Took this photo in the locker room shared by surgeons, anesthesiologists and radiologists because it really put this whole never ending MD vs DO thing into very sharp perspective..

View attachment 183929

Don't let that certain contingent of the SDN crowd get to you. Work hard and get your name on a locker..
Click to expand...
Why does the DO locker have a scratch on it's left superior lateral side? Even in locker assignment, there is discrimination.
 
Goro said:
A little homework assignment:
Draw up a list comparing and contrasting osteopathic medicine vs allopathic medicine.

If you have shadowed a DO and an MD, what two unique things did you learnfrom or about each?

There you have the answers to your secondaries.

Just avoid quoting Wiki word for word, OK?
Click to expand...
This right here. I did not really have answers until I shadowed. I realized that realistically MDs and DOs are very, very similar. But I was able to find a couple small things that I am really espoused to, that the DOs did regularly. Maybe some MDs do the same thing? Who cares.... the DOs that I shadowed had certain aspects in their practices that I liked and were good mentors and thus I feel called to follow in their footsteps. Its really just about that simple really. Your job is not necessarily to define a specific reason to go down that profession and NOT go down the other, its more or less to have experiences that backup that you know what the route entails and that you are interested in it.
 
Most MDs and DOs are exactly the same. They are people who wanted to go into medicine, just like us. The FM or PC approach is usually the only difference. My good friend is a DO and is loved by all of his patients and colleagues. Nobody cares about what letters come after your name. The only things that matter are (1) can you care for a patient in need and (2) are you a good person at the end of the day?

As far as writing about the DO philosophy, read some of the literature out there and come to your own conclusions. Follow advice given on SDN. There are a lot of caring, intelligent people on this forum who want to see you succeed no matter what route you choose.
 
Finished reading the DOs a week ago and just remembered this thread. I get it now and I can't wait to become an osteopathic physician! Who would've thought that my preferences about the kind of doctor I want to be, would be compatible with the mission of osteopathic medicine. I am surprised and excited for the future. It was hard to recognize those subtle differences between DO and MD until I knew what to look for.

For all of you on the fence about osteopathic medicine read this book ASAP. I think DO schools should make it required reading; It is written well except that super dense and boring chapter of medicare,medicaid, and insurance.

If anybody wants to know the specifics of what it was that made me go over the fence to osteopathic medicine, just message me. Its too much to post and I am kinda tired right now.
 
AlbinoHawk DO said:
You can write an essay about how you believe in becoming a physician first and foremost and yet be able to articulate positive aspects of Osteopathic Medicine. People won't take offense to someone saying that the professions are equal and complimenting positive aspects of DO. Don't feel you need to lie to get in. For example, I believe both professions are equal, but I appreciate being in an environment that has an underlying philosophy that is patient centered and that learning OMT can help me with palpatory skills.
Click to expand...
This is almost exactly what I said in an interview. Turns out my interviewer was an MD. I think she really appreciated how I put it: that overall they are similar, so its not like I could never do the other path (MD), and that in fact I had worked with some amazing and caring MDs, but its just that experiences while shadowing made me want to specifically follow in the DO's example. The example being subtle distinctions that I truly do believe only came from going to DO school.
 
I just said I like DO because they do OMM. It's a pretty simple answer that no one can argue with. Even at a traditional DO school, their interviewers might be MD's and not know much about what's unique about DO anyway, so you just say whatever you think and educate them.
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_MD_and_DO_in_the_United_States

This really helped me solidify applying DO. Yes DOs basically do the same "things" as MDs, but on a large scale (not person by person) the way they do these "things" is different. It shows that more DOs think about the socioeconomic status of their patients. It shows more DOs use their patients first name (develop a closer relationship). And more DOs think about the emotional status of their patients.

I'm not saying that none of these can be done by an MD. But since it appears that DOs do them at a higher rate than their MD colleagues, it might be due to their osteopathic training.
 
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