head and neck reirradiation

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radoncle

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I have a pt who was treated 2 years ago elsewhere with CRT for a base of tongue cancer. He has since failed in the BOT/AE fold and has b/l neck nodes positive. He underwent laser excision of the AE fold/BOT tumor with positive margins and LND with 2/19 nodes positive (one from each neck).
How would people treat?

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65.. ecog 1. He had surgery (excised the primary BOT recurrence with pos margin) and had a b/l LND with 2 nodes positive and another area found in the neck dissection of "invasive carcinoma in fibroadipose tissue without evidence of lymph node tissue which may represent completely replaced LN tissue, measuring up to 3.8 cm"
Yes, he can get chemo. No DMs on PET
 
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I have a pt who was treated 2 years ago elsewhere with CRT for a base of tongue cancer. He has since failed in the BOT/AE fold and has b/l neck nodes positive. He underwent laser excision of the AE fold/BOT tumor with positive margins and LND with 2/19 nodes positive (one from each neck).
How would people treat?
Attempt at least 60 Gy range with chemo and BID 1.2 Gy fractions and a cord max of about 20 Gy if possible. Very involved fieldish I would think (ie avoid sclav ENI, no need).

HPV status?
 
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Attempt at least 60 Gy range with chemo and BID 1.2 Gy fractions and a cord max of about 20 Gy if possible. Very involved fieldish I would think (ie avoid sclav ENI, no need).

HPV status?
p16 positive. Thanks. I haven't seen his prior plan yet so I'll have to check dose constraints. I assume he received 70 Gy though.
 
p16 positive. Thanks. I haven't seen his prior plan yet so I'll have to check dose constraints. I assume he received 70 Gy though.
Agree, assume max doses. You kind of have to not get too worried about dose constraints (at the end of day, you’re trying to achieve at least a summed in field dose of 120 Gy or more, lifetime) except the cord. I give it a 50% discount off its previous dose and always assume it got a max of 50 Gy in the prior plan regardless (unless I know for sure it got more which obv has been known to happen, sometimes).
 
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I think your planning will be highly dependent on the initial plan and where you need to treat now. I would treat positive margin and maybe involved neck. OARs will dictate your dose.
 
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66 Gy in 2 Gy fx to primary with concurrent chemo. If no ECE I would avoid the neck to try to decrease the risk of carotid blowout.
 
66 Gy in 2 Gy fx to primary with concurrent chemo. If no ECE I would avoid the neck to try to decrease the risk of carotid blowout.
You wouldn't recommend treating the neck even with that weird "invasive carcinoma in fibroadipose tissue without evidence of lymph node tissue which may represent completely replaced LN tissue, measuring up to 3.8 cm" thing?
 
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You wouldn't recommend treating the neck even with that weird "invasive carcinoma in fibroadipose tissue without evidence of lymph node tissue which may represent completely replaced LN tissue, measuring up to 3.8 cm" thing?
Not whole neck. I would stay in the general LN station region. Would talk to ENT, ideally in presence of patient, to get sense of extent(s) of disease and the areas they’re concerned about if any.
 
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Sounds like he bought himself a full reirradiation course with chemo, including primary and neck in my book. Protons unlikely to help you with high dose regions. You could turf it but id be confortable treating 66-70/33-35. Keep carotid max to composite 110-120. Would consent and document very well for carotid blow out. Need to get dicoms from previous plan to plan your radiation as OARs will dictate how much you can do.
Other option is kick can further with systemic therapy but you will likely need to treat eventually.
 
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You wouldn't recommend treating the neck even with that weird "invasive carcinoma in fibroadipose tissue without evidence of lymph node tissue which may represent completely replaced LN tissue, measuring up to 3.8 cm" thing?
I totally missed that update from OP. I would absolutely treat that postop to 66 Gy. No elective neck.
 
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Attempt at least 60 Gy range with chemo and BID 1.2 Gy fractions and a cord max of about 20 Gy if possible. Very involved fieldish I would think (ie avoid sclav ENI, no need).

HPV status?
Rtog protocol for reirradiation similar to this and I have had some success. Minimal if any elective xrt. I am more liberal with the cord. I think rtog allowed a bit more. If cord revived 45 gy originally at 1-4-1.5 fraction and allow for recovery, do have some room.
 
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Rtog protocol for reirradiation similar to this and I have had some success. Minimal if any elective xrt. I am more liberal with the cord. I think rtog allowed a bit more. If cord revived 45 gy originally at 1-4-1.5 fraction and allow for recovery, do have some room.
20 Gy max is aspirational ;)
 
65.. ecog 1. He had surgery (excised the primary BOT recurrence with pos margin) and had a b/l LND with 2 nodes positive and another area found in the neck dissection of "invasive carcinoma in fibroadipose tissue without evidence of lymph node tissue which may represent completely replaced LN tissue, measuring up to 3.8 cm"
Yes, he can get chemo. No DMs on PET
oof. 60 in 30 fx with cisplatin. Target only areas of prior gross disease.

Would be eligible for ECOG 3191. Good source for constraints as well if questions.
 
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I have a pt who was treated 2 years ago elsewhere with CRT for a base of tongue cancer. He has since failed in the BOT/AE fold and has b/l neck nodes positive. He underwent laser excision of the AE fold/BOT tumor with positive margins and LND with 2/19 nodes positive (one from each neck).
How would people treat?
65.. ecog 1. He had surgery (excised the primary BOT recurrence with pos margin) and had a b/l LND with 2 nodes positive and another area found in the neck dissection of "invasive carcinoma in fibroadipose tissue without evidence of lymph node tissue which may represent completely replaced LN tissue, measuring up to 3.8 cm"
Yes, he can get chemo. No DMs on PET

Tough situation.

But yes, would re-RT.

66 to + margin + the quoted area which is basically a long way of screaming ECE. I presume all disease is in one neck? whichever neck didn't have the frank ECE. Treat focused area of ECE + entire nodal level the ECE was in + say 1cm sup/inf to 60Gy.

We say shoot for carotid constraint < 120Gy composite but the onyl series I am aware of from UPMC evaluating this showed basically no DVH parameters for it.... but yes avoid hotspots in the carotid at re-treatment. If anyone is aware of better DVH parameters as predictors of carotid blowout (there's data for aorta blowout with thoracic re-RT at 120Gy composite dose, is that what people are extrapolating?).... I would love to read it.
 
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Tough situation.

But yes, would re-RT.

66 to + margin + the quoted area which is basically a long way of screaming ECE. I presume all disease is in one neck? whichever neck didn't have the frank ECE. Treat focused area of ECE + entire nodal level the ECE was in + say 1cm sup/inf to 60Gy.

We say shoot for carotid constraint < 120Gy composite but the onyl series I am aware of from UPMC evaluating this showed basically no DVH parameters for it.... but yes avoid hotspots in the carotid at re-treatment. If anyone is aware of better DVH parameters as predictors of carotid blowout (there's data for aorta blowout with thoracic re-RT at 120Gy composite dose, is that what people are extrapolating?).... I would love to read it.
My own feeling is that DVH factors are not the primary predictor but malignancy/carotid propinquity
 
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Tough situation.

But yes, would re-RT.

66 to + margin + the quoted area which is basically a long way of screaming ECE. I presume all disease is in one neck? whichever neck didn't have the frank ECE. Treat focused area of ECE + entire nodal level the ECE was in + say 1cm sup/inf to 60Gy.

We say shoot for carotid constraint < 120Gy composite but the onyl series I am aware of from UPMC evaluating this showed basically no DVH parameters for it.... but yes avoid hotspots in the carotid at re-treatment. If anyone is aware of better DVH parameters as predictors of carotid blowout (there's data for aorta blowout with thoracic re-RT at 120Gy composite dose, is that what people are extrapolating?).... I would love to read it.
Thank you.
Nodes were positive in each neck unfortunately. The ECE description node level wasn’t specified unfortunately.. just that it was found from levels 2-4 dissection. I can try to call the pathologist to see if they have any more info.
 
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Nodes were positive in each neck unfortunately. The ECE description node level wasn’t specified unfortunately.. just that it was found from levels 2-4 dissection. I can try to call the pathologist to see if they have any more info.
Reading that this was p16+ and is a OPhx primary -
If he had pN1 disease observation could be considered in the upfront setting and I would consider observing the non-ECE size. I wouldn't observe on the ECE side, though. Is there pre-op imaging? Usually a 3.8cm soft tissue mass would be visible on pre-op imaging. Could basically see where that would be and go 1-2cm sup/inf to that for potential microscopic extension of ECE if pathology isn't helpful.
 
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Since we're talking a out radiation and blood vessel damage, figured I'd show an interesting couple of pictures from a case I had. Oral tongue/BOT primary that was essentially the entire tongue.
1661454021338.png

Did induction chemo to try to shrink a little while logistics of getting to treatment/feeding tube etc were worked out, then chemoRT. At last follow-up, pain was better, NED on scope. Improving. This was 6 weeks post treatment. 2 weeks later he passed away with this "non-con" CT.
1661454175657.png

Presumably the cancer, or the cancer dying caused it. I discussed potential for ruptured blood vessel and death with him as it was a clear risk from the start given the advance primary. Was expecting it to be an artery, though. Anybody seen this before?
 
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Since we're talking a out radiation and blood vessel damage, figured I'd show an interesting couple of pictures from a case I had. Oral tongue/BOT primary that was essentially the entire tongue.
View attachment 358829
Did induction chemo to try to shrink a little while logistics of getting to treatment/feeding tube etc were worked out, then chemoRT. At last follow-up, pain was better, NED on scope. Improving. This was 6 weeks post treatment. 2 weeks later he passed away with this "non-con" CT.
View attachment 358830
Presumably the cancer, or the cancer dying caused it. I discussed potential for ruptured blood vessel and death with him as it was a clear risk from the start given the advance primary. Was expecting it to be an artery, though. Anybody seen this before?
Explain what I need to be looking at/for here lol (I mean I see the T7 tongue tumor)
 
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Explain what I need to be looking at/for here lol (I mean I see the T7 tongue tumor)
Mostly just showing the primary to illustrate the degree of invasion at presentation. The more interesting pic is the CT 2.5 months after RT. In case it's not obvious, and wasn't to me, you shouldn't see the vasculature on a non-con CT (those aren't gyri).
 
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Mostly just showing the primary to illustrate the degree of invasion at presentation. The more interesting pic is the CT 2.5 months after RT. In case it's not obvious, and wasn't to me, you shouldn't see the vasculature on a non-con CT (those aren't gyri).
So what do they think happened. He just had a stroke? Any cancer can make you hypercoaguable I suppose?
 
So what do they think happened. He just had a stroke? Any cancer can make you hypercoaguable I suppose?
I'm not sure I've gotten a straight answer on that as he was helicoptered out and thats the last image I saw. The presumption was some type of connection between a blood vessel and an airway. He didn't bleed out, so presumptively a vein. Going back in time, at pres, the venous trunk that receives blood from the mouth and face goes straight into the tumor, though no clear involvement of the IJV. Presumably there were pulmonary infarcts as well, and could've had a PFO. Basically the entirety of the cerebral circulation and right carotid below the lower extent of the CT head were filled with air.
1661461527053.png

Maybe I'm just missing a simple explanation here? I guess I can't see how a clot could cause this.
 
Since we're talking a out radiation and blood vessel damage, figured I'd show an interesting couple of pictures from a case I had. Oral tongue/BOT primary that was essentially the entire tongue.
View attachment 358829
Did induction chemo to try to shrink a little while logistics of getting to treatment/feeding tube etc were worked out, then chemoRT. At last follow-up, pain was better, NED on scope. Improving. This was 6 weeks post treatment. 2 weeks later he passed away with this "non-con" CT.
View attachment 358830
Presumably the cancer, or the cancer dying caused it. I discussed potential for ruptured blood vessel and death with him as it was a clear risk from the start given the advance primary. Was expecting it to be an artery, though. Anybody seen this before?

My dude/dudette, the carotids are not involved in the case described. Neither is the IJ. They both look pretty pristine to me.

I know a brain shouldn't have that much black in it but I'm not sure what I'm looking at... hemorrhagic stroke? Ischemic stroke? little wiggly parasites in the brain?
 
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I'm not sure I've gotten a straight answer on that as he was helicoptered out and thats the last image I saw. The presumption was some type of connection between a blood vessel and an airway. He didn't bleed out, so presumptively a vein. Going back in time, at pres, the venous trunk that receives blood from the mouth and face goes straight into the tumor, though no clear involvement of the IJV. Presumably there were pulmonary infarcts as well, and could've had a PFO. Basically the entirety of the cerebral circulation and right carotid below the lower extent of the CT head were filled with air.
View attachment 358834
Maybe I'm just missing a simple explanation here? I guess I can't see how a clot could cause this.

Oh... the black... it's air. Werd. Not sure why we think this is from cancer or cancer therapies though. He had an open/exposed vessel that he was... getting air into? Because of cancer? Or cancer treatments? Not something unrelated?
 
Oh... the black... it's air. Werd. Not sure why we think this is from cancer or cancer therapies though. He had an open/exposed vessel that he was... getting air into? Because of cancer? Or cancer treatments? Not something unrelated?
I agree. None of the explanations I've gotten have made sense. What I do know is that his entire tongue was a cancer, and killing it had to do something to the structural integrity of the involved normal anatomy. I'm not up on all the causes of an aeroembolus affecting the entirety of the cerebral circulation.
 
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I agree. None of the explanations I've gotten have made sense. What I do know is that his entire tongue was a cancer, and killing it had to do something to the structural integrity of the involved normal anatomy. I'm not up on all the causes of an aeroembolus affecting the entirety of the cerebral circulation.

You sure about that? I presume the patient didn't have a giant hole in his tongue at the end of your treatments, that there was normal tissue healing while the cancer died, etc. etc.
 
One of the med oncs I work closely with just had an inpatient that had a weird air-embolism episode. She had previous floor of mouth/mandibular leiomyosarcoma met (~3cm) that got 5x5 that resulted in excellent clinical response, though did have some toxicity with RT recall with her cabozantinib months later. She ends up needing enteral, then parenteral feeding support in hospital because of this. Also palliated some hilar/lung nodules with 8Gy x 2 previously as well with good response. Then suddenly as an inpt, she went unresponsive with flexor posturing, and found to have air embolism on re-read of her CT head. MRI showed lack of diffusion everywhere. She woke up a day later almost entirely neurologically intact and no one really knows what caused it. PFO study was negative. We can’t figure where it came from. Might have been iatrogenic or through her IVs, who knows.
 
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Especially when support staff is stretched thin and a revolving door of travelers
 
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