Head Gas Man a Wimp?

[LADoc00]

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WASHINGTON (AFP) - The American Society of Anesthesiologists called on its members not to attend executions of death sentences by lethal injection, even if called to do so by a court.

In a letter addressed to some 37,000 members, association president Orin Guidry recalled the American Medical Association's code of ethics, which says: "A physician, as a member of a profession dedicated to preserving life when there is hope of doing so, should not be a participant in a legally authorized execution."

Cant physicians decide what is moral on their own without having some beauracrat playing their Jimney Cricket conscience?!

Doesnt the Hippocratic oath also state something about abortion, yet you dont see OB crowd issuing such statements....hypocrisy?

 

[cubs3canes]

first...read his letter.

http://www.asahq.org/news/asanews063006.htm

I do not think that he is telling us what to do. I think he is helping us get out of the middle of this issue.

Ideally the people that do not want the executions would love us to just say no to executions. The state would like us to help them with the executions.

We are in a bind. He is getting us out of the middle. He makes a clear point in the letter to say that we are NOT part of the pro versus anti-death penalty discussion. He just does not want to system to involve us in that decision.

I agree with his letter completely and I am pro-death penalty. It is the state's responsibilty to make sure the inmate (killer, murderer, a**h*le, whatever) is killed without cruel and unusual punishment. Not ours.

The question on abortion is different. They are questioning the begining of life. They are not questioning the methods of stopping that fetus from growing. The death penalty issue concerns end of life and we have a constitution that forbids cruel and unusual punishment. While I hope these convicts suffer until the day that they meet their maker, it is not my job to help with the transition.

 

[militarymd]

. It is the state's responsibilty to make sure the inmate (killer, murderer, a**h*le, whatever) is killed without cruel and unusual punishment. Not ours.

It is the state's responsibility, but who does the state employ that has the expertise?

The state has wisely asked "experts" to assist in making sure that there is no pain and sufferring.

I think the wise thing for the ASA to have done is to remain SILENT....neither condemning nor supporting.

I'm pro-death penalty.....and I think one drug.... pancuronium or potassium is enough to do the job.

 

[Faebinder]

I am surprised that a medical association would try to get involved in this ethical argument... Frankly, we all have different beliefs and it's important to respect different points of view. You are right.. they should have kept quiet, neither pro nor against.

 

[LADoc00]

I am surprised that a medical association would try to get involved in this ethical argument... Frankly, we all have different beliefs and it's important to respect different points of view. You are right.. they should have kept quiet, neither pro nor against.

Absolutely, obviously government jackboots are not about to coming knocking on anyone's door to force them to kill inmates. This supposedly politically neutral letter true intent was to marginalize those MDs who do take part in the process. That is an outrage, pure and simple. Guidry should be immediately removed from his position for even assuming he has the power to dictate morality from his petty beuracratic soap box. Who the hell does he think he is? The pope?

This screams medical hypocrisy and laypeople and political pundits are already shouting this. It makes all MDs look bad, even those not in gas.

Just another embarassing foray of stupid liberal leftist MDs into public policy making it even tougher for the rest of us to make a buck....thanks.

Im so pissed I might volunteer to do State executions for free, with a dull Stryker saw and bottle of Jack Daniels. FFS, Richard Ramirez (aka night stalker) has been on death row forever! Kill 'em already.

 

[militarymd]

Absolutely, obviously government jackboots are not about to coming knocking on anyone's door to force them to kill inmates. This supposedly politically neutral letter true intent was to marginalize those MDs who do take part in the process. That is an outrage, pure and simple. Guidry should be immediately removed from his position for even assuming he has the power to dictate morality from his petty beuracratic soap box. Who the hell does he think he is? The pope?

This screams medical hypocrisy and laypeople and political pundits are already shouting this. It makes all MDs look bad, even those not in gas.

Just another embarassing foray of stupid liberal leftist MDs into public policy making it even tougher for the rest of us to make a buck....thanks.

Im so pissed I might volunteer to do State executions for free, with a dull Stryker saw and bottle of Jack Daniels. FFS, Richard Ramirez (aka night stalker) has been on death row forever! Kill 'em already.

Why don't you send the ASA a letter? I think I'm going to.

 

[Trisomy13]

Just another embarassing foray of stupid liberal leftist MDs into public policy making it even tougher for the rest of us to make a buck....thanks.

You're welcome.

 

[underdog27]

It is the state's responsibility, but who does the state employ that has the expertise?

The state has wisely asked "experts" to assist in making sure that there is no pain and sufferring.

I think the wise thing for the ASA to have done is to remain SILENT....neither condemning nor supporting.

I'm pro-death penalty.....and I think one drug.... pancuronium or potassium is enough to do the job.

I like your attitude Mil!!!!! 👍

 

[cubs3canes]

You do not need one drug. All you need is a bullet or a rope. I think it would be cheaper. I also think that most Americans do not care if the killers suffer.

I still disagree with you. I am glad the ASA took the position that the state should not use us anesthesiologists as a reason to not use lethal injection.

 

[Noyac]

So if a state was to use the electric chair, would they enlist a electrician?

 

[jwk]

Absolutely, obviously government jackboots are not about to coming knocking on anyone's door to force them to kill inmates. This supposedly politically neutral letter true intent was to marginalize those MDs who do take part in the process. That is an outrage, pure and simple. Guidry should be immediately removed from his position for even assuming he has the power to dictate morality from his petty beuracratic soap box. Who the hell does he think he is? The pope?

This screams medical hypocrisy and laypeople and political pundits are already shouting this. It makes all MDs look bad, even those not in gas.

Just another embarassing foray of stupid liberal leftist MDs into public policy making it even tougher for the rest of us to make a buck....thanks.

Im so pissed I might volunteer to do State executions for free, with a dull Stryker saw and bottle of Jack Daniels. FFS, Richard Ramirez (aka night stalker) has been on death row forever! Kill 'em already.

I'm curious if you've read his entire letter. He prefaces it by stating up front that it's a combination of the ASA's stated position AND his personal views. I think it's one of the most rational discussions I've seen on the subject. His closing (shown below) is excellent, particularly the statement about being well informed, which I think is the main intent of his letter.


"However if the only way to accomplish this appropriate level of anesthesia is with an anesthesiologist using all of our tools AND anesthesiologists will not participate, then are anesthesiologists stopping capital punishment and making public policy?

Not in my opinion. Lethal injection was not anesthesiology’s idea. American society decided to have capital punishment as part of our legal system and to carry it out with lethal injection. The fact that problems are surfacing is not our dilemma. The legal system has painted itself into this corner and it is not our obligation to get it out.

This is a complex subject and anesthesiology is being reluctantly thrust into the middle of it. My advice would be to be well informed on the subject and steer clear."


There's certainly nothing stopping any of you that are truly interested in participating from calling your state Bureau of Prisons and offering your services. And although I'm pro-capital punishment, the reality of pulling the trigger or turning the stopcocks and pushing the drugs is very likely quite different than the fantasy.

 

[militarymd]

There's certainly nothing stopping any of you that are truly interested in participating from calling your state Bureau of Prisons and offering your services.

Oh, but there is...loss of privileges at your hospital, loss of provider number, etc...

 

[Dr. J?]

Doesn't this s hit violate the Hippocratic Oath?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

 

[LADoc00]

Doesn't this s hit violate the Hippocratic Oath?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

The oath has largely been abandoned, or let me put this way: basically the medical establishment conveniently invokes the oath when it fits a specific political purpose or goal and then conveniently sweeps it under the rug to cover those inconsistencies in its policy.

 

[militarymd]

The oath has largely been abandoned, or let me put this way: basically the medical establishment conveniently invokes the oath when it fits a specific political purpose or goal and then conveniently sweeps it under the rug to cover those inconsistencies in its policy.

That's why I never took the oath with my classmates when we graduated from medical school.

 

[VolatileAgent]

pro-death penalty here. but, i feel, in general, doctors should stay out of this business. it doesn't take an anesthesiologist-level of training to kill someone gently. it just takes an EMT to start the iv and the right combo of drugs, which can be administered through a protocol.

but, if they still think they need physician help, let kevorkian out of prison in michigan. he's got a lot of experience in this arena. and he's just a pathologist.

 

[Tenesma]

a point blank bullet to the head is pain free... however it doesn't guarantee death...

 

[nutmegs]

the fact that you'll someday be my colleagues is almost enough to make me rethink my career choice. fortunately I learned the first day of med school that SDN doesn't accurately reflect reality. 🙂

 

[nimbus]

Medicine=healing, helping people.

Execution=killing people

I don't know why the state is trying to medicalize execution. If a physician assists in an execution, he (doubt it would be a chick) is using skills learned during his training to act as an executioner. He would not be acting as a physician. This is akin to physicians who use their skills for other purposes such as torture, doping, management consulting or whoring for big pharma. Skills acquired during medical training can be used for other stuff besides medicine.

 

[militarymd]

Medicine=healing, helping people.

Execution=killing people

I don't know why the state is trying to medicalize execution. If a physician assists in an execution, he (doubt it would be a chick) is using skills learned during his training to act as an executioner. He would not be acting as a physician. This is akin to physicians who use their skills for other purposes such as torture, doping, management consulting or whoring for big pharma. Skills acquired during medical training can be used for other stuff besides medicine.

Some people need some healing.....others, need some killing.

There is nothing wrong with killing.....There is a lot wrong with committing heinous crimes against other human beings.

Besides, all the government wants is for the MD to make sure that the "killing" is done in a humane fashion....no where does it ask you to do the killing.

 

[LADoc00]

the fact that you'll someday be my colleagues is almost enough to make me rethink my career choice. fortunately I learned the first day of med school that SDN doesn't accurately reflect reality. 🙂

Actually SDN in no way reflects the true extremes that exist in medicine, SDN is rational, reasonable discourse, while real medicine has street brawls, espionage, turf fights and true physical confrontation....stay away, there are already WAY too many of us. Go get an MBA, you will be much more happy!


~Concerned Committee for the Discouragement of All Premeds (currently serving as Secretary and Treasurer) a.k.a. premeds are rat-like creatures with such an amazing ability to reproduce, they will overpopulate the Earth and lead to an "Inconvenient Truth".

 

[MirrorTodd]

a point blank bullet to the head is pain free... however it doesn't guarantee death...

Disclaimer: I am not a psychopath
Wouldn't that be with a certain caliber? Or the wrong angle? I'm sure there is some mathematical way to figure out the perfect angle to ensure death. Do people survive a high-powered rifle shot directly to the brain. They could use a .50 sniper rifle. I guess that's too messy. Why don't they give them cyanide pills? I'm not sure if that's painful though. The government could raise cobras. I've heard that it's actually a very peaceful death. And no, there wasn't a person who came back as a ghost or anything.

 

[cloud9]

Disclaimer: I am not a psychopath
Wouldn't that be with a certain caliber? Or the wrong angle? I'm sure there is some mathematical way to figure out the perfect angle to ensure death. Do people survive a high-powered rifle shot directly to the brain. They could use a .50 sniper rifle. I guess that's too messy. Why don't they give them cyanide pills? I'm not sure if that's painful though. The government could raise cobras. I've heard that it's actually a very peaceful death. And no, there wasn't a person who came back as a ghost or anything.

A lower caliber hollow-point would accomplish it. No unjustifiable suffering, quick death, cost of a bullet.

Mess? Soap and gun oil.

Cyanide? Doesn't that start with foaming at the mouth and stuff? I would imagine it would be at least a little painful.

 

[nutmegs]

Actually SDN in no way reflects the true extremes that exist in medicine, SDN is rational, reasonable discourse, while real medicine has street brawls, espionage, turf fights and true physical confrontation....stay away, there are already WAY too many of us. Go get an MBA, you will be much more happy!


~Concerned Committee for the Discouragement of All Premeds (currently serving as Secretary and Treasurer) a.k.a. premeds are rat-like creatures with such an amazing ability to reproduce, they will overpopulate the Earth and lead to an "Inconvenient Truth".

not premed
~chair, official personal statement procrastinators union

 

[lkcmd]

The oath has largely been abandoned, or let me put this way: basically the medical establishment conveniently invokes the oath when it fits a specific political purpose or goal and then conveniently sweeps it under the rug to cover those inconsistencies in its policy.

Perfectly said - it infuriated me that we read a "modified" hippocratic oath at my med school graduation. But then again, its not just the medical establishment that does this, the liberal left sees this as a way of life.

I said it, I feel better, now you can attack me.