Heard bad things....

[Faze2]

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I have really been looking closely at SMP programs because my undergrad was pretty terrible, <3.0. I have been trying to bring it up as best I can with my post-bac work, successfully so far. I figured that since it will still not be competetive because of undergrad, that an SMP would be the perfect thing for me to better improve my chances for med school. I have been looking into them extensively and seem to like what I hear, have read, etc about their success rates.

But I spoke to an admissions director of a very good local school, and she warned me, very intensely, not to do an SMP!!! She emphasized how bad they were and how they "trick" students to spending a lot of money and don't get them into school. She told me she cannot count how many times students have been in her office crying to her that "they have done so well in their SMP so why do they keep getting rejected?"

It just made me panic because I was pretty much dead set on trying to do an SMP next year, and it seems like from everything I have read that they are a catalyst for getting people like me into med school. But now here she comes telling me that it would be the "worst decision I could make" and she made me promise that I would not apply to any. (She was very nice and helpful though. This part just kind of threw me.)

So.....what the hell? Is she right? Has everyone been lying to me? I thought of a one or two things that could explain it.

1) She is at a school that does NOT have an SMP program of their own. (However, she talked about how taking more undergrad courses would be a better option, which I could not do at her school, because it has no undergraduate school. So it isn't a "spend your money here thing.")

2) These students who are crying in her office are trying to get into her school, which is a very tough school. Just because they are getting rejected from their, does not mean they could not get in somewhere else.


Please share your thoughts on this, because now I am just confused......

 

[DrMidlife]

Ask this adviser to name a dozen SMPs. If she can't, then she doesn't know what she's talking about. Because there are 30 now. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=489913

Most SMPs publish the percentage of their graduates who are currently enrolled in medical school. The SMPs that put their students in actual medical school courses, and measure their students against med students, are able to publish med school acceptances over 70%.

The people who are crying in her office because an SMP took their money and didn't get them into medical school didn't read the fine print - here, I'll make it big: YOU HAVE TO ACE AN SMP FOR IT TO GET YOU INTO MEDICAL SCHOOL. If you're not at the top of your SMP class, you gain nothing but additional debt. Edit: furthermore, some medical school applicants are simply not ever going to get in unless they go to charm school or do the Peace Corps or both.

The whole point of an SMP is to put you through some subset of the first year of medical school to prove you can handle medical school. It's not an economical or pretty way to go about getting into med school.

Best of luck to you.

 

[CoolSpot7Up]

A couple weeks ago I spoke with an admissions director from a Top 20 med school for about 40 minutes in her office. I brought up that I was going to do an SMP, and she knew exactly what they were. She asked which ones I was applying to, and I told her: Georgetown, Cincinnati, and BU. She said she would definitely consider an applicant who attended any one of those.

I'm not sure why the person you spoke to would say what she did. Yes, you do need to do well, but if you have a bad GPA with everything else excellent, it's your best option.

Since I was a science major in undergrad, took nearly every upper-level science course I could (and did well too...just first 2 years were bringing my GPA down)...doing graduate work is my only option since there's nothing left for me at the undergraduate level. She said going back to school and doing an SMP is a very good decision.

 

[caliprincess]

Reiterating what others have said, there are several things to consider.

1) You MUST do well at your SMP! Nothing less than a B+. Period.

2) An SMP is a good idea if you have a lot of credits behind you, making it nearly impossible for you to bring up your undergraduate GPA in a reasonable amount of time.

3) You need to do well on your MCATs (obviously)

4) I think the students that cried in this woman's office were not strategic when they applied to medical school. Strategy is key if you are enrolled in a special master's program.
a) These students had either bad timing or possibly applied to medical schools that pre-screen their applicants. Any medical school that does this is going to look at your undergraduate GPA for the screening process. So, if these students had <3.0 in undergrad and they applied to pre-screening schools, then it doesn't matter that they did well in graduate school. They wouldn't have gotten looked at in the first place! A good example of schools that pre-screen and/or have very strict minimums: all of the UC schools, VCU, Wake Forest, Arizona...those are the one's that I can think of off the top of my head.
b) When she says they did well and couldn't get in, that is very subjective. To her, doing well may mean obtaining a 3.4 graduate GPA. Unfortunately, it is unlikely that you will get into medical with that number. That is considered mediocre by most medical schools, so she has been misinformed (if that is the case).

5) Being in a special master's program does not = admission into medical/dental school. It can improve your overall application if it is very lopsided (high MCAT low GPA). However, it is not a sure thing. Yes, it is true that some programs are ridiculously expensive and are money makers for their adjacent medical schools. Others truly care about helping you get to your final destination. Pick a program with a solid reputation. If it is a newer program, I would be a little weary, unless they guarantee you an interview to their medical school by doing the program, or have a combined MS/MPH degree (or something that balances out its "newness")

Again, do your research. Talk to admissions directors at a few other medical schools and get their opinion. I am sure that you will find this woman that you spoke to is misinformed or a quack.

 

[Isoprop]

1) You MUST do well at your SMP! Nothing less than a B+. Period.

B+ average = 3.3 GPA. a 3.5 is minimally sufficient. but i would say that a 3.7 is needed to overcome any prior undergrad GPA issues. so nothing less than an A-.

 

[CoolSpot7Up]

B+ average = 3.3 GPA. a 3.5 is minimally sufficient. but i would say that a 3.7 is needed to overcome any prior undergrad GPA issues. so nothing less than an A-.

Agreed. It will be tougher to get that A- in the med school classes of an SMP (requiring you be in the top half of the high passers usually), but that's why you have the pure grad school classes to boost it up. You need solid A's in the grad classes, then try to do your best in the med schools ones. Nothing lower than a A-/B+ in those.

 

[Instatewaiter]

4) I think the students that cried in this woman's office were not strategic when they applied to medical school. Strategy is key if you are enrolled in a special master's program.
a) These students had either bad timing or possibly applied to medical schools that pre-screen their applicants. Any medical school that does this is going to look at your undergraduate GPA for the screening process. So, if these students had <3.0 in undergrad and they applied to pre-screening schools, then it doesn't matter that they did well in graduate school. They wouldn't have gotten looked at in the first place! A good example of schools that pre-screen and/or have very strict minimums: all of the UC schools, VCU, Wake Forest, Arizona...those are the one's that I can think of off the top of my head.
b) When she says they did well and couldn't get in, that is very subjective. To her, doing well may mean obtaining a 3.4 graduate GPA. Unfortunately, it is unlikely that you will get into medical with that number. That is considered mediocre by most medical schools, so she has been misinformed (if that is the case).

While I will agree about the UCs and Wake Forrest, VCU does not always screen out those with a low GPA. If you are enrolled in an SMP (especially theirs) they will usually put you on hold for grades from the SMP.

To add to the advice, it is a good idea to update your schools on your grades as you get exam grades in the SMP. That way, if you are on hold or on the fence, you will get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[caliprincess]

B+ average = 3.3 GPA. a 3.5 is minimally sufficient. but i would say that a 3.7 is needed to overcome any prior undergrad GPA issues. so nothing less than an A-.

In a sense we are both right. At my SMP, a B+=3.5 and there are no minus grades. So depending on the grading system of the SMP, nothing less than a B+ or A- should be aimed for.

 

[RuseMD]

IMO aren't the grades for Undergrad/Postbaccs standardized to a 4.0 grading scale regardless of the differentiation in school grading systems? I would say push for the highest grade you can achieve. Always aim high. It's better to hit a star than the land in the dirt. Good luck!

 

[Vihsadas]

In a sense we are both right. At my SMP, a B+=3.5 and there are no minus grades. So depending on the grading system of the SMP, nothing less than a B+ or A- should be aimed for.

Unfortunately, regardless of what your university transcript says, AMCAS will take your B+ and make it a 3.3 anyway. So don't go by your University grading system!!! Think about what AMCAS will do! Get that A or A-!

IMO aren't the grades for Undergrad/Postbaccs standardized to a 4.0 grading scale regardless of the differentiation in school grading systems? I would say push for the highest grade you can achieve. Always aim high. It's better to hit a star than the land in the dirt. Good luck!

Yes exactly. See above.

B+ average = 3.3 GPA. a 3.5 is minimally sufficient. but i would say that a 3.7 is needed to overcome any prior undergrad GPA issues. so nothing less than an A-.

I'll see your 3.7 and raise you to 3.8. My rationale is that a 3.7 puts you on the 'A-' bar which is 'high pass' for medical schools courses. Get to that 3.8 and it shows that you are nearing the 'Honors' range for pretty much everything.

In my opinion, a B+ in the medical school courses of your SMP is TOO LOW. The medical school courses are by far the most important part of your SMP. You should always, always aim to score in the 'honors' range for these courses. Anything lower than A- in any of them is unacceptable.