Heart Failure - Diary of a Third Year Medical Student

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DermViser said:
With all due respect, you agreeing really isn't relevant. I agree, you are free to defend yourself. But any situation is always a he said/she said situation, unless there is some video camera recording of the situation. When you throw a punch, you lose any recourse. As a medical student you have no power.
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you would literally be better off to throw yourself to the ground and wail/cry/beg for mercy loud enough that the whole floor heard you. If I'm alone in a room with an attending and they come out with a bruise, I lose. My number of bruises is basically irrelevant in all but the most extreme circumstance.

Remember this isn't a conflict in America between two citizens who are equal. It's a conflict in medical education between (pardon the norse imagery) thor and a mortal. Even a tough mortal can't survive when the other gods start throwing lightning around because a mortal dared challenge them. It's not cool or ok but we just aren't on equal footing. Winning is defined as getting to be an attending, not keeping your pride for the day because you swung back.
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sb247 said:
you would literally be better off to throw yourself to the ground and wail/cry/beg for mercy loud enough that the whole floor heard you. If I'm alone in a room with an attending and they come out with a bruise, I lose. My number of bruises is basically irrelevant in all but the most extreme circumstance.

Remember this isn't a conflict in America between two citizens who are equal. It's a conflict in medical education between (pardon the norse imagery) thor and a mortal. Even a tough mortal can't survive when the other gods start throwing lightning around because a mortal dared challenge them. It's not cool or ok but we just aren't on equal footing. Winning is defined as getting to be an attending, not keeping your pride for the day because you swung back.
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Exactly. I don't think people realize the HUGE imbalance of power between an attending and a medical student. Even between an attending and a resident there is still a huge imbalance of power. You can ask female residents who have lodged (valid) sexual harassment complaints.
 
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DermViser said:
Exactly. I don't think people realize the HUGE imbalance of power between an attending and a medical student. Even between an attending and a resident there is still a huge imbalance of power. You can ask female residents who have lodged (valid) sexual harassment complaints.
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yep....until you are an attending, you are not in the club. You are the pledge they beat up at parties. It all changes the day you make attending but you are totally vulnerable until that day. That's why a med student can lose their spot for some racist comments online while their dean can get pulled over for suspicion of DUI and keep their job. A resident can lose their spot for having "poor interpersonal and professional skills" but an ENT doc can be caught sexually assaulting patients repeatedly and gets the slap on the wrist of needing a chaperone.

Know the powerlessness of your situation and react accordingly. The antelope should not fight the lion.
 
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DermViser said:
I don't see how whether or not they continue GME is relevant to what he points out.
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I think it matters. Why didn't they continue? Were they not competitive enough to match? If not, that means their overall performance was probably subpar as well. This increases the likelihood that they are lashing out and blaming "the system" because they couldn't match where they wanted to. If they are lashing out, then they will embellish the experiences they had in order to make it sound even more scandalous.

How many people are willing to take on the financial burden of a loan and then walk away to do nutritional advice or academic anthropology? To me those don't seem like the obvious first choice.
 
Shjanzey said:
I think it matters. Why didn't they continue? Were they not competitive enough to match? If not, that means their overall performance was probably subpar as well. This increases the likelihood that they are lashing out and blaming "the system" because they couldn't match where they wanted to. If they are lashing out, then they will embellish the experiences they had in order to make it sound even more scandalous.

How many people are willing to take on the financial burden of a loan and then walk away to do nutritional advice or academic anthropology? To me those don't seem like the obvious first choice.
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So then either way you win. If they leave GME, then they were "lashing out and blaming the system". If they don't leave, then they're just whining. God forbid they're actually pointing out real failings in medical education, and this is at Tufts.
 
DermViser said:
So then either way you win. If they leave GME, then they were "lashing out and blaming the system". If they don't leave, then they're just whining. God forbid they're actually pointing out real failings in medical education, and this is at Tufts.
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Well no, I only mentioned it weakens their credibility and you said leaving GME wouldn't weaken their credibility. I merely proposed a probable scenario. I can't say 100% that this is what happened, because if it went the way I said, then I could say they have 0 credibility. Since I can imagine such a scenario as being highly likely, it merely weakens their credibility. If what they say is 100% true, then it goes the other way.
 
Shjanzey said:
Well no, I only mentioned it weakens their credibility and you said leaving GME wouldn't weaken their credibility. I merely proposed a probable scenario. I can't say 100% that this is what happened, because if it went the way I said, then I could say they have 0 credibility. Since I can imagine such a scenario as being highly likely, it merely weakens their credibility. If what they say is 100% true, then it goes the other way.
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So pointing out of observations and the truthfulness of them is dependent on if the observer in question finished GME years later. Got it.
 
Shjanzey said:
No need to be stubborn. I am trying to figure out if you are being intentionally obtuse or really missed the point.
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I'm not being stubborn or obtuse. How does him completing GME have anything to do with observations on MS-3 clerkships?
 
DermViser said:
I'm not being stubborn or obtuse. How does him completing GME have anything to do with observations on MS-3 clerkships?
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MS3 comes after he took step1. He already knew if his chances to match were diminished. If he was shooting for Neurosurgicaldermoplatics and he barely passed that puts a dent in his plans. It also ruins his outlook for the next two years. He also wrote this book long after he graduated, which means he had plenty of time to ruminate about how he wanted to undermine the system. Honestly, the fact that he didn't complete GME means that his experience pool to choose from, as far as criticizing healthcare, is extremely limited. Down to only 3rd and 4th year. Just a few things I can think of off the top of my head.
 
Shjanzey said:
MS3 comes after he took step1. He already knew if his chances to match were diminished. If he was shooting for Neurosurgicaldermoplatics and he barely passed that puts a dent in his plans. It also ruins his outlook for the next two years. He also wrote this book long after he graduated, which means he had plenty of time to ruminate about how he wanted to undermine the system. Honestly, the fact that he didn't complete GME means that his experience pool to choose from, as far as criticizing healthcare, is extremely limited. Down to only 3rd and 4th year. Just a few things I can think of off the top of my head.
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Quite a HUGE leap of logic on your part esp. since he wrote the book in 1999 ---- When he graduated.
 
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DermViser said:
Except it's not. You extrapolated to the stratosphere. Esp. since he graduated from Tufts with Honors.
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He said he graduated with honors in his books, which is an embellishment. Someone pointed out earlier in the thread that he didn't have honors, just an honors research class or something like that.

I only responded this time because I want to have the last word. It's mine!
 
Shjanzey said:
He said he graduated with honors in his books, which is an embellishment. Someone pointed out earlier in the thread that he didn't have honors, just an honors research class or something like that. :nono:

I only responded this time because I want to have the last word. It's mine!
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:rolleyes:
 
DermViser said:
:rolleyes:
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I was referring to the following

As to this Michael Greger interacting well with patients remember he's the one telling the story. The fact that he's reporting the fact he was taken aside a few times lets you know it was much worse than he reported. The only time attendings, especially chiefs take a medical student asside it is because they are doing a terrible job. That this happened twice and he says he graduated with honors is suspect. I bet his grades from peds and surgery were terrible. Note he isn't AOA. Hmm...
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Also the fact that he made up people for his quotation further diminishes his credibility. He is caught in one lie, how much else is made up?
 
Shjanzey said:
I was referring to the following



Also the fact that he made up people for his quotation further diminishes his credibility. He is caught in one lie, how much else is made up?
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No one has established that he "made up" the quotation. And that user said it's "suspect". I'll refrain from commenting about the poster himself.
 
DermViser said:
No one has established that he "made up" the quotation. And that user said it's "suspect". I'll refrain from commenting about the poster himself.
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I can concede to your first point, however I would like to note you ignored the second part of the post where I pointed out that the author likes to fabricate things.
 
Shjanzey said:
I can concede to your first point, however I would like to note you ignored the second part of the post where I pointed out that the author likes to fabricate things.
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Um, that's bc it's your opinion he fabricated things - which doesn't make sense.
 
Shjanzey said:
In the bottom right hand corner, under web references, you will see the book you posted as the source of his existence...

You got served, I win. Please let it end here
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:smack: I know. The heading says 'Web references'. See Employment History. Nvm.
 
KanyeWes said:
The problem here is that med schools are not unbiased. Their primary directive is to protect themselves. Not to help you or to serve justice.

So, if you punch and fight back, you have the potential to get screwed over by a judicial committee, which often comprises of a bunch of self righteous loser narks who get their revenge of the nerd justice by screwing you over.

Plus some schools Have a "zero tolerance" policy towards violence. So even if you are defending yourself against someone who is repeatedly assaulting you, you would lose and get kicked out because of that policy.

It doesn't make sense, but these school policies are designed .
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With you, until the zero tolerance policy thing. If they're repeatedly assaulting you, you absolutely can defend yourself. If your med school gives you crap for that, they're asking for major PR trouble. I don't advocate messing with the med school machine ,but if you're gonna let someone do that to you, that's too far. If that policy ever got taken to court, student could sue the school for millions in damages due to that policy. The school can't make you sign a policy that egregiously violates law, nor is it binding in the event that you do sign it. They can get you on things like "professionalism " and all that BS, but if it's actually self defense in a legal sense, you win 100/100 and they have 0 shot. Can you imagine the PR from that? Tonight at 5 : " Medical School has policy where students are required to allow assault from superiors." I'm not trying to screw with anyone or make battles for myself, but if my school tried to give me crap for actually defending myself when it was necessary, I'd have fox/nbc/cbs on the line immeadiately.
 
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DermViser said:
:smack: I know. The heading says 'Web references'. See Employment History. Nvm.
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That is likely under the employment history BECAUSE the reference stated he was from Harvard Medical School, not the other way around.

I imagine any professor or someone high up from Harvard Medical School would be googleable (and show up in something besides this Heart Failure thing).
 
pmarank said:
Its an anagram for "So Deform"...
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...and the even more appropriate lament of “O Serfdom.”

GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
"I made a pact with myself. Throughout third year I was going to wear a QUESTION AUTHORITY button on my coat. And I have."

****.
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  • “He sees my Ad Hoc Committee button, ‘Patients Not Profits.’”
  • “Or as the button Holly gave me yesterday says, ‘Gandhi Would Have Smacked You in the Head.’”
  • “I want a button with the three words a dear friend ended an Email with: ‘Defiantly Still Smiling.’”
  • “I'm amazed at how far I can get with a sticker on the forehead; I am transformed into a clown guru. From my fluorescent orange hippo to my plush purple platypus, on every white coat button hangs a beanie baby clone, in every button-hole a stuffed animal's foot is stuffed. From fuzzy pink rabbit ears on my head to plastic rainbow slinkys trailing at my feet. And it's not even really for the kids. True it's for everyone. True it tones down The Coat. But mostly it's for two reasons. One, I am not like you. Nor you, soul-snatcher, I am me. Not another white coat, and certainly not another MD. I'm me, damn it.”
Is this a thing? I just have the standard handful of school pins on my white coat.

 
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loris said:
...and the even more appropriate lament of “O Serfdom.”


  • “He sees my Ad Hoc Committee button, ‘Patients Not Profits.’”
  • “Or as the button Holly gave me yesterday says, ‘Gandhi Would Have Smacked You in the Head.’”
  • “I want a button with the three words a dear friend ended an Email with: ‘Defiantly Still Smiling.’”
  • “I'm amazed at how far I can get with a sticker on the forehead; I am transformed into a clown guru. From my fluorescent orange hippo to my plush purple platypus, on every white coat button hangs a beanie baby clone, in every button-hole a stuffed animal's foot is stuffed. From fuzzy pink rabbit ears on my head to plastic rainbow slinkys trailing at my feet. And it's not even really for the kids. True it's for everyone. True it tones down The Coat. But mostly it's for two reasons. One, I am not like you. Nor you, soul-snatcher, I am me. Not another white coat, and certainly not another MD. I'm me, damn it.”
Is this a thing? I just have the standard handful of school pins on my white coat.

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I removed all pins from my white coat, to get that sleeper look. No one would ever think I got 500 horses under the hood(car joke) without the 14 pins the typical med student has.
 
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PL198 said:
I removed all pins from my white coat, to get that sleeper look. No one would ever think I got 500 horses under the hood(car joke) without the 14 pins the typical med student has.
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I wish you had responded earlier. I was pretty inspired by the author’s use of stickers and Beanie Babies to brighten everyone’s day, so I just went ahead and duct taped a cat to one of my pockets. Now I have to figure out how to peel everything off without messing up my coat and getting bitten.
 
I have one pin on my white coat. That's it. Not until I become an attending will I put anything sports related on there. Then I may have 2 pins.
 
evilbooyaa said:
I have one pin on my white coat. That's it. Not until I become an attending will I put anything sports related on there. Then I may have 2 pins.
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I found it so funny when surgeons would wear the nursing union pin so their cases would get into the OR faster.
 
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evilbooyaa said:
I have one pin on my white coat. That's it. Not until I become an attending will I put anything sports related on there. Then I may have 2 pins.
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Remove that one, it'll be the best feeling of your life. I literally have people in my class with 7-8. I'm not sure how they take themselves seriously.
 
SDN and MedSchoolHell made me think med school and 3rd year were going to be horrible and leave me a souless, shell of a human being. I'm a 4th year now, and sure it's been tough and I've seen some of the stuff I had read about, but man there is a lot of dramatization going on here.
 
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Rocher said:
SDN and MedSchoolHell made me think med school and 3rd year were going to be horrible and leave me a souless, shell of a human being. I'm a 4th year now, and sure it's been tough and I've seen some of the stuff I had read about, but man there is a lot of dramatization going on here.
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MedSchoolHell no longer exists: http://www.medschoolhell.com/

It depends also what specialty you're aiming for.
 
DermViser said:
MedSchoolHell no longer exists: http://www.medschoolhell.com/

It depends also what specialty you're aiming for.
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In other words, surgery=shell, anything else = still human.

I've half seriously joked that if I had to do my 2 surgery months as an intern back to back, my third month would see me over in the psych building at the hospital one way or the other.
 
Siggy said:
In other words, surgery=shell, anything else = still human.

I've half seriously joked that if I had to do my 2 surgery months as an intern back to back, my third month would see me over in the psych building at the hospital one way or the other.
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Haha you have a point there, fortunately I'm not going into surgery, but God bless those masochistic folks who are.
 
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Siggy said:
In other words, surgery=shell, anything else = still human.

I've half seriously joked that if I had to do my 2 surgery months as an intern back to back, my third month would see me over in the psych building at the hospital one way or the other.
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LOL. I was saying depending on how competitive the specialty you're going for then your clerkship rotation grades might matter even if it has absolutely nothing to do with your chosen specialty.

For example, if you're going for Peds, then you don't really have to care, mainly bc Peds PDs could give hoot how you did on Surgery.
 
kirbymiester said:
This is some really potent and powerful stuff, but the guy seems to clearly have psychiatric issues. His perception of certain events really appears pathological. Like yeah, it bugs me when I see patients get sub-optimal care because the doctor doesn't have enough patience to deal with them, but you just let it roll off and tell yourself you learned a lesson of what NOT to be.

Not to say the author's concerns aren't valid, but it just seems like he hasn't taken off those rosy-colored MS1 glasses and was psychologically assaulted as a result.
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Ok my boyfriend likes putting Roman candles and sparklers up his butt and lighting them,we both know that there is a burn risk,we are not stupid.is there any other risks?
 
Smartcookie said:
Ok my boyfriend likes putting Roman candles and sparklers up his butt and lighting them,we both know that there is a burn risk,we are not stupid.is there any other risks?
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Glad you asked. There's a risk of not having enough fun -- might want to get a couple cacti too.
 
sb247 said:
I want a "capitalism in medicine" pin...
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Man let's get on this. I'll pay oodles of money to see this created. I will abandon the sleeper no pin look for a capitalism pin 100 %.
 
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Closest thing I can find so far:

Dollar_lapel_pin__43510.1363805313.1280.1280.jpg


or

team_one_percent_anti_occupy_lapel_pin_buttons-r86ab58a30956471f9df2c1684c9252aa_x7j3i_8byvr_512.jpg
 
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