heart murmur

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zpinkpanther

zpinkpanther

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So, I took my kitten into work today to get his vaccines. Everyone was so excited to see how much he'd grown since I took him home! (I adopted him after our UPS guy saw someone dump him from a car on the street.) Anyway, the doctor said that he has a very, very low-grade heart murmur, and he thinks it's a sinus murmur (I think that's what he said?). I was looking it up in my Merck and could only find systolic murmur, so I was wondering if anyone knows anything about that? I'm just curious, and I thought it would make an interesting topic, since I've really had no experience with heart murmurs. Then again, I could always just grill the doc for information next time I see him. 🙄
 
I don't really know much about heart murmurs but I had a cat (he was a chubby russian blue) with a low grade murmur. I was 6 when he was diagnosed so i didn't ask much about it, but my dad being an MD asked a lot of questions. Looking back on it now, its quite impressive because this was 17 years ago and all I remember was when heart-transplant came up (not for him just that they did it) my dad was impressed! It wasn't anything major so we let him be and he lived a healthy happy 15 years after that! Just a short anecdote i thought id share!
 
CalpardNY said:
I don't really know much about heart murmurs but I had a cat (he was a chubby russian blue) with a low grade murmur. I was 6 when he was diagnosed so i didn't ask much about it, but my dad being an MD asked a lot of questions. Looking back on it now, its quite impressive because this was 17 years ago and all I remember was when heart-transplant came up (not for him just that they did it) my dad was impressed! It wasn't anything major so we let him be and he lived a healthy happy 15 years after that! Just a short anecdote i thought id share!
Click to expand...

That is neat! I didn't even know that they did heart transplants nowadays; I'm pretty impressed! And thanks, it's great that your cat was okay. The doc assured me that it wouldn't hurt him at all, I'm just a huge dork and had to whip out the Merck to learn more about it. 😛
 
zpinkpanther said:
That is neat! I didn't even know that they did heart transplants nowadays; I'm pretty impressed! And thanks, it's great that your cat was okay. The doc assured me that it wouldn't hurt him at all, I'm just a huge dork and had to whip out the Merck to learn more about it. 😛
Click to expand...

I mean I think it was really rare back then and i remember them only doing it in on place (Tx comes to mind but Penn might have been it!). I KNOW they do kidney transplants now adays (and i Know that the owners must adopt the donor cat...usually a stray...which i think is really cool!). Anyway, OT...but yes i figured you had a bit of concern which is why i figured the unscientific anecdote would be helpful. But trust me, i think we all understand desire to investigate every little thing - especially with our own pets. Good luck with him!
 
The only "sinus" I know related to the heart is a sinus arrhythmia...

Murmurs either occur during systole (systolic), diastole (diastolic) or continuous (holosystolic).

You'd have better chance of finding someone to clone a cat versus perform a heart transplant. To my knowledge it has never been done in a clinical patient, unlike renal transplants. Not that it couldn't be done. However, I don't believe a suitable work-around the ethical dilemma of having to kill a healthy cat in order to harvest a donor heart for transplant has been achieved. Then there's how hard a time and complications small animal patients have had coming off bypass machines...
 
Congrats on your new kitten! 🙂

My guess is that your vet might have said "sinus arrhythmia" if you truly heard the word "sinus" in there. I think sinus arrythmias are much more common in dogs--or at least, much easier to hear! Come to think of it, they might not ever occur in a cat...sorry for the musing. Anyways, if you think you might have heard the word "systolic," then that's the most likely scenario.

The term "systolic" simply refers to the phase of the cardiac cycle (systole) during which the murmur can be heard. This gives an indication of which valve(s) are likely to be affected, depending on the exact sound and location of the murmur. (If a valve is supposed to be closed during systole and there's a leak, you hear a murmur.)

However, both puppies and kittens can have "innocent" murmurs that disappear as they get older. Typically, these murmurs disappear by the age of six months. Life expectancy is completely normal for these guys!

Cats are also weird and can have so-called "physiologic" murmurs in stressful situations (such as going to the vet). These murmurs are transient and not reliably reproducible. My stupid cat cost me $500 because I worked up a "new" murmur--only for him to have a completely normal echocardiogram. Ah, well--would rather he be healthy!

Unless it's really loud or your kitten is showing signs of cardiovascular problems (collapse, weakness, exercise intolerance, lethargy), then your vet will likely just watch it and hopefully the murmur will disappear.

Cool, huh?
 
fetch said:
You'd have better chance of finding someone to clone a cat versus perform a heart transplant. To my knowledge it has never been done in a clinical patient, unlike renal transplants. Not that it couldn't be done. However, I don't believe a suitable work-around the ethical dilemma of having to kill a healthy cat in order to harvest a donor heart for transplant has been achieved. Then there's how hard a time and complications small animal patients have had coming off a bypass machine...
Click to expand...

It's entirely possible I was wrong...I was 6! Maybe it was a valve replacement or valve surgery of some sort? I know there was some technically advanced surgery being discussed but I probably got lost among all the medical talk and its very possible i jumped to inaccurate conclusions.
 
I'm sure at 6 you didn't understand the specifics. Just like I didn't understand at the time when I was 4/5 why the family dog couldn't be "saved" after being ran over by the neighbor because of the high lumbar luxation that was present. Sure, I know that now...but then, not so much...

I'm not picking on you. Honest.

Just supplying the facts as I know/understand them, sir. Consider it a personality quirk.

🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
 
alliecat44 said:
Congrats on your new kitten! 🙂

My guess is that your vet might have said "sinus arrhythmia" if you truly heard the word "sinus" in there. I think sinus arrythmias are much more common in dogs--or at least, much easier to hear! Come to think of it, they might not ever occur in a cat...sorry for the musing. Anyways, if you think you might have heard the word "systolic," then that's the most likely scenario.

The term "systolic" simply refers to the phase of the cardiac cycle (systole) during which the murmur can be heard. This gives an indication of which valve(s) are likely to be affected, depending on the exact sound and location of the murmur. (If a valve is supposed to be closed during systole and there's a leak, you hear a murmur.)

However, both puppies and kittens can have "innocent" murmurs that disappear as they get older. Typically, these murmurs disappear by the age of six months. Life expectancy is completely normal for these guys!

Cats are also weird and can have so-called "physiologic" murmurs in stressful situations (such as going to the vet). These murmurs are transient and not reliably reproducible. My stupid cat cost me $500 because I worked up a "new" murmur--only for him to have a completely normal echocardiogram. Ah, well--would rather he be healthy!

Unless it's really loud or your kitten is showing signs of cardiovascular problems (collapse, weakness, exercise intolerance, lethargy), then your vet will likely just watch it and hopefully the murmur will disappear.

Cool, huh?
Click to expand...

Thanks! I figured when I couldn't find anything about sinus murmur, but I saw systolic everywhere, that I might have heard wrong. He also said that it's not there every time, so maybe it's one of the transient or innocent ones? He even let me have a stab at it with the stethoscope, but damned if I know how to use the thing... 🙄 I think what I heard was fur, fur, and some more fur. It was kinda fun anyway, though. 😀 Thanks for the info, though, this is all very foreign and interesting to me, since the clinic where I work seems to get a lot of animals with endocrine issues and not much else. 🙂
 
fetch said:
The only "sinus" I know related to the heart is a sinus arrhythmia...

Murmurs either occur during systole (systolic), diastole (diastolic) or continuous (holosystolic).

You'd have better chance of finding someone to clone a cat versus perform a heart transplant. To my knowledge it has never been done in a clinical patient, unlike renal transplants. Not that it couldn't be done. However, I don't believe a suitable work-around the ethical dilemma of having to kill a healthy cat in order to harvest a donor heart for transplant has been achieved. Then there's how hard a time and complications small animal patients have had coming off bypass machines...
Click to expand...

I think I'd be just as impressed with a renal transplant. I'm still pretty fascinated with blood transfusions. :laugh: I'm just easily amused!
 
We've sent a few shelter animals to the cardiologist at CVRC in Towson (http://www.cvrc.com/). Dr. Rosenthal is really nice. If you ever do have to have your kitty worked up further, you might consider going there.


You should listen to more hearts - it's really fun to be able to start detecting murmurs and things!
 
fetch said:
I'm sure at 6 you didn't understand the specifics. Just like I didn't understand at the time when I was 4/5 why the family dog couldn't be "saved" after being ran over by the neighbor because of the high lumbar luxation that was present. Sure, I know that now...but then, not so much...

I'm not picking on you. Honest.

Just supplying the facts as I know/understand them, sir. Consider it a personality quirk.

🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
Click to expand...


Fetch I totally understand you weren't picking on me. I'm one of those people who doesn't mind being corrected (though If im sure of something i will stand my ground 😛). But i appreciate you pointing it out. Glad I didn't go into an interview and make myself look stupid :laugh:!
 
Pandacinny said:
We've sent a few shelter animals to the cardiologist at CVRC in Towson (http://www.cvrc.com/). Dr. Rosenthal is really nice. If you ever do have to have your kitty worked up further, you might consider going there.


You should listen to more hearts - it's really fun to be able to start detecting murmurs and things!
Click to expand...

Yeah, we've sent a few patients over there, too. Seems like a nice/good place, so if it comes to that (eep, poor kitty!), I think I'd definitely go there.

I've got a stethoscope at home (got it for Christmas when I was 16- yay dorkage! 😀), so maybe I'll give it a shot on my own when I'm not rushed to get back to work. 🙂
 
Speaking of murmurs, does anyone know of a website that has audio files of the different kinds of murmurs? That would be pretty cool.
 
The kitty attached to my aviator is Thomas and he has a heart condition as well. My vet diagnosis him with a PDA and then I took him to the Vet School for an echocardiogram. I heard they had a new cardiologist on loan and I wanted to meet him 😀 and well it was a benefit for Thomas. He diagnosised him with perimembranous left to right shunting ventricular septal defect. Now the cardiologist is working with my vet to manage his care. It is my understanding that he would need surgical repair of the defect; palliative pulmonary arterial banding or we can just try to manage his care. So far we have gone with just managed care and he is doing great. He is on some meds but the local pharmacy flavored the liquid meds so they are tuna flavored 😛. He loves it. We had to use a local pharmacy b/c he's so young that we needed the dose formulated. He's now growing like a weed. Anyway he'll have the best life for whatever time he has.
 
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