Help! Alternative Routes to MD/PhD

[lacunae]

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Hi everyone. I want to be a physician-SCIENTIST. I love research and I want to do primarily research (translational), but I want the option to see patients. I want both an MD/PhD, but I am unfortunately not competitive for programs.

I have always been a horrible standardized test taker, and this was no different with the MCAT. All of my practice tests were 32-38, but I could not reproduce these on the real test. I took the MCAT three times and I received a high of 29 (low VR). The rest of my application is okay (3.7GPA from unknown LAC, 3yrs as research tech and 3yrs undergrad research, presentations but no pubs), so I think I can get into separate degree programs (MD at my state school).

I have numerous acceptances to top10 PhD programs, and I can enter one of these in the fall. The grad school I am interested in attending has a no deferment policy. I am also considering not joining a PhD program and instead applying for med school next year. For all of you guys that did your degrees separately, which method would you advise? I am not financially well off, so I would like a route that is the least costly. I would also like a route that will take the least amount of time, so I can get a real job at a reasonable age.

Thank you so much for your help

Lacunae

 

[sirrileydog]

You have to ask yourself whether it's worth spending 4 years of your life learning to diagnose colds and treating bladder infections just because you might want to treat patients one day.

I'm concerned that you'd be chasing the MD PhD due to the stipend, above other paths. If you are looking for the quickest path, it would be a good idea to raise the expected timelines with the PhD programs you're considering. You don't need an MD to do translational medicine, and I work with many PhDs who continually make that same point to me.

Do the PhD. Gravitate towards a mentor with an interest in translational science. Ultimately, if you see yourself in the lab, this is a good way to go.

 

[QofQuimica]

Hi everyone. I want to be a physician-SCIENTIST. I love research and I want to do primarily research (translational), but I want the option to see patients. I want both an MD/PhD, but I am unfortunately not competitive for programs.

I have always been a horrible standardized test taker, and this was no different with the MCAT. All of my practice tests were 32-38, but I could not reproduce these on the real test. I took the MCAT three times and I received a high of 29 (low VR). The rest of my application is okay (3.7GPA from unknown LAC, 3yrs as research tech and 3yrs undergrad research, presentations but no pubs), so I think I can get into separate degree programs (MD at my state school).

I have numerous acceptances to top10 PhD programs, and I can enter one of these in the fall. The grad school I am interested in attending has a no deferment policy. I am also considering not joining a PhD program and instead applying for med school next year. For all of you guys that did your degrees separately, which method would you advise? I am not financially well off, so I would like a route that is the least costly. I would also like a route that will take the least amount of time, so I can get a real job at a reasonable age.

Thank you so much for your help

Lacunae

Depends on how much you really want an MD. I agree with sirrileydog; you can definitely do translational research with just a PhD. If you need access to patients, you'd team up with an MD. Research teams are the norm--the days of some guy with weirdo hair shut up in his lab alone all night are gone.

If you definitely want both degrees, my advice is to focus on getting into medical school. It's a lot easier to add on a PhD as a med student than it is to get into med school as a grad student. PhD-to-MD is doable, but it's by far the most difficult option for getting an MD/PhD versus combined programs or MD-to-PhD. Another option you might consider is MD/MS. In any case, if you're going to apply for med school, you'd better make sure you beef up your clinical and service ECs. Compared to MD/PhD programs, MD-only programs care a lot about those things, and they don't care as much about your research experience.

to you. 🙂

 

[Brunette1981]

I would just second the idea that you shouldn't enter a top 10 PhD program with the expectation you will be able to transfer into the MD/PhD program.

I am at a huge MSTP program and I've only ever heard of 1 person doing this. On the other hand, we generally get 1-3 MD students transferring into the program after 1st year - that's no cakewalk either but is significantly easier because most straight-MD students actually don't want to do research.

If you want to be mostly research, then go for the best PhD program you get into. If you have your heart set on MD/PhD, go to a med school with a program and work your a$$ off first year.

Bear in mind that medical schools are filled with former pre-meds who are good test-takers so you might not do as well in med school as you thought you would since grading is largely test-based your first two years. Then, you might find yourself unable to get into the MD/PhD program - so ask yourself first if you are willing to be a clinician who does clinical research instead a bench scientist or if you are willing to commit to an NIH-type postdoc that might take 4-7 years after medical school? And what residency you imagine yourself doing in case that is also very competitive. Plus, that way, you have to pay for the whole med school experience.

 

[ABCXRT]

If you really want MD/PhD and it's really the 29 MCAT that's holding you back, why not retake the test? Just study study study (mainly verbal) and retake.

If your grades are also a problem or if your research isn't so strong then obviously retaking the MCAT isn't going to help. Also you may not get into a med school with good research options (i.e. funded programs). If money's not a problem (unlikely), get the MD and then focus on research. If money is a problem (very likely) you have to decide how important patient care is to you.

 

[lacunae]

I really want both an MD and a PhD, since I want to do both research (primary focus) and patient care. In regards to shirrleydogs concern that my motivation for pursuing an MD/PhD is financial, it is to some extent. My family is not financially well off, so I will be taking out loans to pay for med school. I do not know how feasible it is to repay 100-200k of debt on an academic salary. Since my passion is research, I do not want to be pushed into a career path I do not want (private practice) due to this large amount of debt.

ABCXRT, I took the MCAT several times before my most recent 29. I have consistently done poorly on real exams relative to practice tests (both the MCAT and GRE). My practice tests were all between 32-38, but I cant seem to break 30 on the real tests. Hence, I do not think retaking will get me anywhere. If I had a competitive score I would apply MD/PhD strait out. The rest of my app is okay (3.7GPA and ~5yrs research). If I apply to med school, I probably will apply to a few lower level MD/PhD programs too but I am not counting on any picks.

I know transferring from a PhD program is not an option. If I do a PhD first, I would apply to med school after I completed grad school. Is transferring from an MD program with a low MCAT even possible. My state school (in the top 10) said that it would not be possible with my low mcat even if I was in the top of the MD class. Are most schools this way or is it just this particular school?

Assuming I can not transfer into an MD/PhD program, are there any particular benefits to going MD to PhD over going PhD to MD?

 

[QofQuimica]

Assuming I can not transfer into an MD/PhD program, are there any particular benefits to going MD to PhD over going PhD to MD?

Based on your goals, I'd still tell you to go to med school first. You can get an MS and/or do a research year while you're there. Most if not all medical schools in the country offer the opportunity for students to take a fifth year for research, even state schools. Separate degrees are a long haul--it's going to take me a total of 14 years to get both my MD and PhD. (I did my PhD first.) You don't need both degrees to do what you want, so don't beat yourself up over it if you don't get them both. A medical degree is more flexible than a PhD, which is the ideal for someone like you who wants to see patients as well as do research. Plus, getting into medical school is significantly harder than getting into grad school is. Finally, more time away from undergrad isn't likely to help you in terms of your MCAT, which you will definitely have to retake if you go to grad school first. (The scores are only good for 2-3 years.) The downside, of course, is that you almost certainly won't be funded for medical school if you do an MD only or you get separate degrees, regardless of what order you do them in.

 

[DrJekyl]

I recommend that you apply to medical schools that will allow transfers into a dual degree after the second year. These programs do exist. You might have to call each school and ask about their policies.