HELP--As a resident you should know best--right?

[Valmont]

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Guys I need some help here. I am a 27-year-old medschool hopeful working at MUSC. I am waiting to hear from allopathic schools and debating on seeking admission to a DO program if I don?t get in. This is my first year applying, but lets face it, I am NOT getting any younger---and if I get to do ortho., and I pray I do, that will make for a long residency.

So, from the standpoint of a resident I will trust your advice. It is my opinion that you all should know best which route will be in my best interest. If I am not accepted to an allopathic program should I take an acceptance to an Irish program? Do any of y?all know residents that went to an Irish school? I know it has a lot to do with the schools relationship with where you try to match.

Should I take a DO offer, if I get it, and stay state side? This would make it easier for me to get a sure residency, but I am just learning about DO programs. Is it better to match through the allopathic match program or just the same through the ostio. route if you are trying to do surgery?

Lastly,-------- what the hell----, what is the consensus on "good Caribbean schools." I know that Ross and some others do a fine job of preparing you for the steps. I guess I want to know how much each option will limit me?

PLEASE HELP---I have to make a decision soon!

 

[neilc]

not a resident, but i am also an older student, and an international student. i am happy to share my thoughts...

as far as the international vs. DO debate, it has been rehashed here several times. many strong opinions out there. however, i think that it has never been conclusively shown that coming from the Irish/Australian programs is better or worse than a DO program when looking at allopathic residency stats. Some programs don't look at IMG's some don't want DO's, some don't care. but, coming from a DO school does give you the option of getting an osteopathic residency in ortho.

personally, i would always go DO over international. there seems to be no big benefit either way at the allopathic programs, but the added possibility of matching at a DO program, the fact that you get to stay in the states and the lack of the extra IMG hoops (ecfmg) make it worthwhile to go DO first, in my opinion.

you also ask what makes a good carib school. just a couple things stand out...1. they have grads licensed in all 50 states 2. they have a good (and viewable!) match list

if you look at those 2 qualifications, i think ross, auc and especially st georges stand apart from the rest.

in short, ortho will be a tough match from any route, even allopathic US schools. if that doesn't work out, you need to really figure out what works best for you and kick ass in school, on the boards, and at your audition rotations. the "which school is better" question has a much smaller impact when you are comparing the top carib, the irish/australian and the DO schools. out of that group of schools, the particular school you went to won't make the difference. what you have done with that education will be much, much more important.

good luck!

 

[Goofyfoot]

Don' t let age be a factor in your decision. There are a LOT of medical students much older than you. Being older can even be a plus (more mature) or a minus (won't take orders form young bucks) as a candidate for residency.

Allopathic, osteopathic, and international medical students are smart people, make great students and residents. If ortho is your interest, as it is a very tough residency position to obtain, allopathic would be your best bet. Unfortunately, it is a struggle for osteopaths and IMGs to gain tough residencies because there is some discrimination because of there training background even though they might have outstanding scores and grades. I would strongly consider the allopathic route just to save yourself some headache. If you must reapply, shore up your CV, retake those MCATS, whatever you need to do- the competition is tough for all medical schools. i am sure i will get responses in disagreement but this is what i have noted from what friends of mine in those situations have said.

Good Luck!!

 

[hotbovie]

Don't jump into the DO/foreign school/carribean school track too fast. Not that good folks don't go to those schools, or that you can't do what you want (or even ortho) from those schools. However, recognize that graduates from those types of schools are often stigmatized and it will be more difficult to match, especialy in a competitive field like ortho, if you go to one of those. I'd say European schools would generally be better regarded, but you'll still have to spend quite a bit of money overcoming all the testing obstacles you'd expeirience as IMG.

I'd strongly suggest try reapplying to allopathic schools first. If you get rejected, many schools will tell you why and what you could do to shore up your application. Even if you have to take a full year without reapplying to shore it up and then reapply in the second year after your first application, I'd do that. Several people im my class applied several times (up to 4) before getting accepted.

DO NOT WORRY ABOUT YOUR AGE. You are a spring chicken compared to many of us. I was 10 years older than you when I first applied to med school. I was rejected, and busted ass taking some extra classes and MCAT prep class to reapply the following year, when I was accepted

Now I am 13 days from finding out where I will start as a general surgery intern at age 42. That's 5 years, and add 2 for a trauma fellowship after that. I'll be 49 when I finish my training (provided I don't take any research years)

Again DO NOT WORRY ABOUT YOUR AGE. You are as young as you feel. During my interviews, my age was rarely a concern. If anything, it was seen as an advantage...the fact that I have had jobs before was seen as a plus vs someone whose first real job will be that of a resident. Only 2-3 times was I asked anything about age, and the question always was "do you have any problem taking orders from people younger than you?", usually asked by a resident interviewing me who was struggling to come up with questions.

 

[shag]

Hotbovie is right on! I am 28 and in my 3rd year. With a sub-par GPA and MCAT, I was rejected the first time I applied. I studied for and retook the MCAT, improving my score. During the year off, I took a biochem course and rounded with the trauma team at the school I wanted to attend. I was accepted on the 2nd go-around.

I talked to several other quasi- nontraditional students and truly nontrads like hotbovie and have yet to have one tell me they got in on their first app. Most were more qualified than me on their first app. Make an appointment with the admissions guy at the school to which you applied, ask what you could do to improve your application, and do it!

After I was rejected I set an appointmet with the admissions guy at my school. He advised that improving my MCAT and staying close to the medical field in the meantime would show motivation and increase my chances of being admitted. It did...

Placing all political correctness aside, a DO is unlikely to match in a competitive MD residency. It is even rarer for an IMG to do this. On my psych rotation, I had an IMG resident who was a competent (in my opinion, brilliant) ER doc in Pakistan. He spoke with residency directors in the US, and was told that the only way he would get an ER residency, and later board certification, was to complete a DO or MD degree in the USA.

Good Luck!

 

[Neurogirl]

I agree that it is difficult for DOs to match to competitive specialties, however, please realize that it is also difficult for US MDs. I personally know several DOs who did quite well and matched at good programs in general surgery, urology, radiology, rad onc, etc. so it can be done.

 

[hotbovie]

Neurogirl is right, and I too, know or know of several DO/IMG that placed in competitive speicalties.

However, I think we all realize that those individuals have a harder time and are generally stigmatized (rightfully or wrongfully, it is still a fact nontheless)

Now that I'm awaiting match day, I'm VERY glad that I made the effort to reapply to allopathic programs first. I did consider going DO/IMG route as well. I think anybody who get rejected on the first time applying to allopathic (which is most applicants) and is thinking of applying to DO/IMG should really consider shoreing up the application and reapplying allopathic as well. You could even do both in one applciation cycle. No reason to make your match process any more difficult than it already is, and coming from an allopathic program makes even the most cuthroat match easier.

 

[Neurogirl]

Hotbovie makes good points, but I'd like to add my own experience to give another perspective for the original poster and others who might read this thread.

I too was an older applicant eager to get started. My MOST important criteria was finding a good school close to home. In the end, I applied to only 3 schools (2 DO and 1 MD). I was accepted to one DO school and waitlisted at the other two. The allo school (and the other osteo school) begged me to reapply, telling me I was certain to get a spot in the next cycle. I decided I didn't want to wait another year and took the bird in the hand. When it came time for residency, I took a similar approach (best program closest to home). Again, I applied and interviewed at a small number of programs in my region. I got my first choice (an allopathic program).

I realize that neuro is not a competitive field and I feel lucky to have become interested in something that was a relatively easy match. However, pretty much everyone in my class did well and ended up in good programs in their fields of choice. I should add that I live in a part of the country with LOTS of DOs and we are widely accepted. This may not be the case in other regions.

When it comes to the future and getting an acutal job...well, I'm not losing any sleep over it. I'm only a pgy-2 (soon to be pgy-3) and have already been recruited by 3 different groups, not to mention a couple of headhunters (still don't know how they found me).

Anyway, as you can see, I'm pretty happy with the way things have turned out and just wanted to share my story so that those who are considering the osteo route won't feel they'll have no choices if they decide to go DO.😀

 

[goooooober]

All these people make good points. But there is only one way to find out the real answer: Follow me lucky charms to Ireland.

 

[Neurogirl]

Huh?

 

[shag]

Huh??

I think this must be some type of "looseness of association" .

 

[Valmont]

Please pardon the spelling up front---no time to check it right now.

I just wanted to take the time to thank you all for the time you allowed me in responding. I have placed apps. w/t 2 MD programs, 4 Irish, 7 DO, and am requesting Info on the islands. I'm not sure what I will do yet. GOD I WOULD LOVE TO STAY IN CHARLESTON! As for not accepting most first time apps. and then asking us to reapply---I am inclined to ask, "Where the #$&* do you get off!" Lets face it, the process is costly and highly redundant. I'll stop bitching now.

Part of me gets excited about the prospect of doing my work in Irland or about getting training in a proactive holistic DO approch. Then there is the practical side of me that railes at the very thought. HUMMMM! I have been so down to earth and focused to get to this point---often doing things that I did't want to at length just to look good for and admissions team. I didn't even try to get in untill I had what I was told they expected: two years clinical experance, a basic science publication, two years basic science work at a medical school, three months ER, OR and psy. exp shadowing.

I may just take off to Irland for school for the experance and adventure. God knows I'll not get the chance to see the world once I start an MD program here.

It is great to know that there are people out there that have done the same and that I can talk with. Thank y'all once more! I will let the board know if I get an acceptance at a MD school.

 

[Newdoc2002]

DO's are consistently and increasingly getting into tough spots in allopathic programs.

Foreign grads also get into some of these specialties as well but I can almost guarantee you that they are looked at LAST. It doesn't mean they are less qualified but it is the way it is done.

Although, M.D. ortho for D.O. is still nearly impossible. I have a fellow grad who killed the USMLE and the COMLEX, was ranked in the top 5 in our class and had great activities, etc., etc., ate and slept ortho and was still ignored by many of the allopathic programs. He got his choice in D.O. programs and their are a good number out there. I'm not sure of the numbers but you have a lower ratio of qualified applicants to spots in DO residencies for ortho.

Don't go D.O. simply for back-up. You may end up disappointed if it doesn't jive with you. I saw many students embittered over their good education but were too short sighted with a MD wannabee attitude.