help...cant decide

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ssf77

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I got accepted to uic and northwestern, but cant decide where i want to go. I wanna go to uic cuz its cheap and plus I get to do rotations in cook county and the VA. I like northwestern...maybe cuz of the name...I dont know. I dont know if I am right but since NU has a national reputation, would it help me at residency time?

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what do you really want to do after med school? If you are planning being a big shot academic go to NW. Other than that, unless you have strong personal feelings which it seems you don't, I can't imagine paying the difference in tuition between those two schools to go to NW. But thats me - I'm cheap ;)
 
I think your question would be best answered in the "Allopathic" forum.

However, I can tell you (as you may well know) that you will get a greater wealth of experiences with rotations at Cook County than with NU hospital affiliations.

Also, I'm not so sure what type of curriculum UIC offers, but NU offers a curriculum that fosters independent learning. If that little tidbit is of any consequence to you, then maybe that can help your decision-making process.

As far as research, I think they are very similar as far as their emphasis.

I'd choose NU over UIC, but for the wrong reasons. UIC is very close to my old high school (Whitney Young). Ya know how familiarity breeds contempt? Classic case.

Congrats and good luck with your decision!
 
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depends on what residency you want to do (competitive vs non-), i assume, and where you'd like to apply (location)
 
Originally posted by lalalala
depends on what residency you want to do (competitive vs non-), i assume, and where you'd like to apply (location)

This is a total crock, you can apply to competitive residencies regardless of where you go, dont buy into that b.s. Go wherever u like it the best. I woud say cost is a huge issue if you are at all intersted in making money and not being in the eternal poorhouse.. go with UIC.. School has no relevence on residency.. study hard and ace boards, be a good clinician and u will hvae ur topc pics
 
Originally posted by ssf77
I got accepted to uic and northwestern, but cant decide where i want to go. I wanna go to uic cuz its cheap and plus I get to do rotations in cook county and the VA. I like northwestern...maybe cuz of the name...I dont know. I dont know if I am right but since NU has a national reputation, would it help me at residency time?

From one Illinoisan to another...

County is going to soon be exclusively covered by Rush. I'm not sure exactly when that is going to happen.

Illinois nowadays has some big problems with the VA system. Lakeside VA right near Northwestern is closing down if it hasn't already (I work as an EMT for a private ambulance service and we used to have the VA contract- the VA's are a cool place). Westside VA that is right near UIC is going to now be covered by both UIC and Northwestern. I drove past Westside VA this week and it looks like they are building a new building in back. I don't know exactly what this building will be used for (anyone at UIC currently know?).

I would think also of learning styles and how overall each school treats its students. Think where you will be happiest the next few years.
 
http://www.infoplex.northwestern.edu/class/alumni/

I wouldn't put too much stock in this notion that "yeah, just do really well and ace your boards, and get honors in rotations and you'll get in anywhere." Sure, this is true IF you're at the top of your class anywhere, but the average case is always the likeliest. If you're the median student at both, NU will help you more. If you're interested in a highly competitive residency, NU on average will give you a better chance at it. On the other hand, if you are sure you want to be a family doc, I'd go to UIC.

Another thing to consider, do you want to stay in the Chicago area for residency and beyond? NU has a stronger rep on the coasts and will help you more.
 
I think Lakeside VA (inpatient, not outpatient) is scheduled to close 2010 at which point both UIC/NU will get rotations at westside (which is a great facility btw)

Oh, I also think this is a much more interesting question than people with Cornell vs. Columbia or whatever. You're going to get really different experiences at either school, and each has different strengths. Maybe write out every factor you consider important - cost, environment, curriculum, rep, diversity, etc and compare each feature. Good luck deciding.
 
I know that certain things at Lakeside have already been closed down..I'm just not sure what. I think their ER may be restricting patients/not operational, because we took a guy who lived a few blocks away from Lakeside in an apartment with a back problem to Westside because Lakeside was trying to cut down on people...
 
I think you need to honestly evaluate how much you are willing to pay for med school. If there's even a question about putting forth the cash for Northwestern, then you're clearly willing/able to pay, and I think that school is worth it. If you're at all interested in ever doing research of any sort, having a Northwestern education is going to make that MUCH easier. You'll get the great clinical experiene that UIC offers, but you'll get much more also. I don't thing Northwestern offers any regrets, but UIC will not open as many doors. I'm by no means saying it's a bad school or that their grads don't do well, they do. But Northwestern is undoubtedly better.
 
Well, having debated the merits of choosing between UIC and other Chicago area schools on SDN I'll just say this. You get what you pay for. Mind you that with the state's $5 billion budget crisis this could mean a variety of things for UIC....some of which may not be that pleasant. UIC's tuition is already at $21,658/yr. While I'm sure it will never reach up into the $30k range you have to wonder where UIC may start cutting stuff in its own budget. Something to think about.

Aside from the tuition difference though, the schools are incredibly different in terms of curriculum and philosophy. I think the difference can be summed up as this: At UIC you get too much lecture and at Northwestern you perhaps get too little lecture. UIC has a philosophy that it likes to cram as much as it can down your throat as fast as possible producing very miserable med students in the first two years (ask any M1/M2 at UIC if he/she "likes" UIC and you'll know what I mean :) ). Friend of mine there claims that the "joke" around UIC is that you need 28 hours in a day to study everything you need. NU on the other hand takes a self-directed learning approach which minimizes lecture and emphasizes PBL and independent study. You'll have time for other things but it seems some students there feel that they end up paying $30k+/yr for just a couple hours of lecture per day.

In terms of residency, well, word on the street is that UIC's match list is pretty good. I think its pretty good myself. Lot's of EM on there it seems.

http://www.uic.edu/depts/mcam/osa/osanews/suppl/2002MatchResultsbySpecialty.htm
 
thanks everyone! I have been asking around fellows , residents, and med students I know. I think I would pick NU any day if my parents and I were filthy rich. Unfortunately, that's not the case. I am waiting to see how much fin aid I get. Another question...I was speaking to a fellow at UIC ans she claims that NU students dont get as good of a clinical training than UIC kids cuz NU sees a lot of rich patients who dont like med students examining them. Is that true?
 
Originally posted by ssf77
thanks everyone! I have been asking around fellows , residents, and med students I know. I think I would pick NU any day if my parents and I were filthy rich. Unfortunately, that's not the case. I am waiting to see how much fin aid I get. Another question...I was speaking to a fellow at UIC ans she claims that NU students dont get as good of a clinical training than UIC kids cuz NU sees a lot of rich patients who dont like med students examining them. Is that true?

partially. the flip side of it being that UIC students clinical exposure is in underfunded institutions so they get too much scut work which is not very educational. There is truth in both. At either you will get the training you need, just with different emphasis.
 
Originally posted by ssf77
I was speaking to a fellow at UIC ans she claims that NU students dont get as good of a clinical training than UIC kids cuz NU sees a lot of rich patients who dont like med students examining them. Is that true?


When I asked my boss about this his response was:

"Yeah, but you'll only kill more people at UIC." :laugh:

His point being that as an M3 and even an M4 you still don't know jack. Plus, most patients can't tell the difference between an orderly and an attending physician anyway. Better to have a little more supervision than a little less I guess was his point.

While there may be grain of truth to it, you should know that this line is standard UIC interview boilerplate. I had at least 2 or 3 students at my interview mention the same thing to entice the interviewees into coming to UIC over a school like NU or UofC. Consider the source I guess is what I'm trying to say. You may want to ask some NU student's for their perspective; specifically M3s or M4s.
 
That kind of broad statement is just not accurate. As a medical student, you're going to learn the basic stuff, and you're going to learn that at both places.

How much you learn as an M3 or an M4 will depend on how active you are and how much initiative you have. Most of your clinical education will come as a resident in your specialty. Don't worry, you will be a good doctor as long as you put in the effort the whole way through. Northwestern does great in residency matching (comparing the 2002 match lists, I would say it easily beats UIC in breath of competitive specialties, national placement, and prestigious institutions). I don't think those residencies would want NU students if the training was as poor as that fellow said.

Now, cost IS a legit concern. You say you would pick NU any day if you had hte money. If your preferences are that strong, I would make every effort to try to go. Like many of us, you're probably going to loan most of if not, all of your education costs. Keep in mind NU has a debt cap where any loans beyond a limit (I think it's like ~130k? you should check) are paid for by the school. If you took out all loans for UIC, I would think that'd be 30k a year or so for tuitition + everything else, that'd still be over 100k.
 
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