Help classifying hours

[Guacamolerat]

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hello all, I’m hoping to apply this upcoming cycle but am having some doubts on what to label my hours on the app. To preface, I have been classifying one of my EC as nonclinical, as it’s in a nursing home and is primarily involved with resident well being rather than feeding and cleaning as some would think a clinical aspect would be. My advisor says I should label it as clinical, as I do help with transporting and do interact with the residents directly, but this would shift my hours to around 320 total of clinical, with only around 70 of non clinical. If I were to label it as non clinical, it would rather be a 200/190 split. I’m not sure to be honest, i know some say clinical is more important than non clinical, but at the same time I feel 70 can be pretty low. Let me know what yall think.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I am still waiting for a WAMC profile, btw.

How is a NURSING home not considered clinical? Yes, I'm aware that responsibility classification is very subjective, but that's why strong applicants don't lean on just one experience to cover the "clinical experience" or "non-clinical community service" boxes.

 

[Med Ed]

Clinical and non-clinical are both necessary to be competitive. The pattern of strong metrics, strong clinical, strong research, weak service is common in reapplicants.

I think it’s fine to use the gestalt of the experience in classifying the hours.

With regards to the term “nursing home,” there is obviously a broad array of different types of facilities that fall under this moniker. It could be anything from a senior living community where residents live fairly independently in their own spaces all the way up to 24/7 memory care. I suggest you find and use the most precise term.

 

[LizzyM]

Seeing a WAMC will help us help you but frankly, I think that you'd benefit from an additional year to prepare the best application you can muster. The alternative is to submit an application that is short on hours and then have to reapply. Do it right and you'll only have to do it once.

 

[Guacamolerat]

I am still waiting for a WAMC profile, btw.

How is a NURSING home not considered clinical? Yes, I'm aware that responsibility classification is very subjective, but that's why strong applicants don't lean on just one experience to cover the "clinical experience" or "non-clinical community service" boxes.

I posted my WAMC in the WAMC thread when you first inquired about it. I have no removed it as most people said they can’t help without an mcat score. I still have it saved if you would like to see it.

 

[Guacamolerat]

Clinical and non-clinical are both necessary to be competitive. The pattern of strong metrics, strong clinical, strong research, weak service is common in reapplicants.

I think it’s fine to use the gestalt of the experience in classifying the hours.

With regards to the term “nursing home,” there is obviously a broad array of different types of facilities that fall under this moniker. It could be anything from a senior living community where residents live fairly independently in their own spaces all the way up to 24/7 memory care. I suggest you find and use the most precise term.

It’s a home for individuals with a range of abilities. I’ve worked with residents with Alzheimer’s and dementia, and I’ve worked with residents who are simply there because of age. I work on the recreation staff, not the nursing team.

 

[Guacamolerat]

Seeing a WAMC will help us help you but frankly, I think that you'd benefit from an additional year to prepare the best application you can muster. The alternative is to submit an application that is short on hours and then have to reapply. Do it right and you'll only have to do it once.

I understand this mentality of having a lot of hours, but could you explain what you believe to be “sufficient?” I feel my hours have shaped me greatly, and while they are not equivalent to that of a non trad, they will still having meaning on my application.

 

[Med Ed]

It’s a home for individuals with a range of abilities. I’ve worked with residents with Alzheimer’s and dementia, and I’ve worked with residents who are simply there because of age. I work on the recreation staff, not the nursing team.

Non-clinical is probably the best fit.

 

[LizzyM]

I'd like to see at least 150 non-clinical hours not counting service in a facility for the infirmed. This averages 1 hour per week, year round, for three years.

 

[Guacamolerat]

I'd like to see at least 150 non-clinical hours not counting service in a facility for the infirmed. This averages 1 hour per week, year round, for three years.

Is there a reason you don’t count volunteer service in a nursing home as decent non clinical hours? Personally speaking, I believe it’s an underserved population in healthcare.

 

[LizzyM]

It can be additional hours but the real test is your willingness to serve the most marginalized people in the community. Yes, nursing home patients are in a tough spot but they have 3 meals per day and a roof over their heads. What about the members of the community who struggle to have even that minimum or who fall below that threshold?

The other thing that we talk about frequently here is whether nursing home is clinical or non-clinical. The people are "residents" and you are in their "residence" so some folks in the business do not consider them to be "patients" and their residence is not a "clinic" or a "hospital". On the other hand, some folks in those settings are there for rehabilitation and require the daily care of nurses and therapists. Some of the care provided by patient care technicians is very much similar to that provided by similar staff members in the hospital: bathing, turning, transferring, toileting, etc. So, sometimes it feels as if people are gaming the system such as playing the piano in a SNF and calling it "clinical" or wheeling someone to the dining room and calling it non-clinical (while if a volunteer at the hospital wheeling someone to the front door for discharge would be clinical).

It is all rather messy.

 

[Guacamolerat]

It can be additional hours but the real test is your willingness to serve the most marginalized people in the community. Yes, nursing home patients are in a tough spot but they have 3 meals per day and a roof over their heads. What about the members of the community who struggle to have even that minimum or who fall below that threshold?

The other thing that we talk about frequently here is whether nursing home is clinical or non-clinical. The people are "residents" and you are in their "residence" so some folks in the business do not consider them to be "patients" and their residence is not a "clinic" or a "hospital". On the other hand, some folks in those settings are there for rehabilitation and require the daily care of nurses and therapists. Some of the care provided by patient care technicians is very much similar to that provided by similar staff members in the hospital: bathing, turning, transferring, toileting, etc. So, sometimes it feels as if people are gaming the system such as playing the piano in a SNF and calling it "clinical" or wheeling someone to the dining room and calling it non-clinical (while if a volunteer at the hospital wheeling someone to the front door for discharge would be clinical).

It is all rather messy.

That makes sense, I can definitely see how it can be observed in different ways. In the nursing home I work in, they are known as residents, but the nursing staff you discuss of is present and a major component of the home. Yes I work on the recreation team, but my work ranges from one on ones to transporting residents to helping with daily exercises. It’s not a major organization and the connections are personal. That’s what my initial question posed to the thread as well, I’m unsure on whether to list it as clinical or non clinical, as the role is diverse. And to expand on my hours, I will working as a part of matriculate during the summer, a program focused on providing university application support to those underrepresented in the application pool. Yes, it will be anticipated hours, but I will be able to talk about it once secondaries and interviews roll around.

 

[LizzyM]

That makes sense, I can definitely see how it can be observed in different ways. In the nursing home I work in, they are known as residents, but the nursing staff you discuss of is present and a major component of the home. Yes I work on the recreation team, but my work ranges from one on ones to transporting residents to helping with daily exercises. It’s not a major organization and the connections are personal. That’s what my initial question posed to the thread as well, I’m unsure on whether to list it as clinical or non clinical, as the role is diverse. And to expand on my hours, I will working as a part of matriculate during the summer, a program focused on providing university application support to those underrepresented in the application pool. Yes, it will be anticipated hours, but I will be able to talk about it once secondaries and interviews roll around.

Supporting first generation students and others under-represented in the application pool is okay as a non-clinical experience but once again, it is not getting into a situation that is uncomfortable and working with people vastly different than yourself and that are in dire straits. This is why direct service to those in need through food pantries, homeless shelters, outreach to the unhoused, and so forth are the usual "go-to" non-clinical volunteer opportunities.

 

[Med Ed]

That makes sense, I can definitely see how it can be observed in different ways. In the nursing home I work in, they are known as residents, but the nursing staff you discuss of is present and a major component of the home. Yes I work on the recreation team, but my work ranges from one on ones to transporting residents to helping with daily exercises.

Which choice would you rather defend? Is transporting someone inherently clinical? If you coached a youth sports team would the exercise be inherently clinical?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

My input on this (which is hard because I'm trying not to repeat what has already been shared):

For the nursing home, where are the doctors? Do you see residents rotating for three years serving patients there? I do think you might cross paths with palliative care or pain/rehab physicians or PAs, but this is not a regular location to see doctors working.

Is it a regular place to see nurses, working? Clearly yes. Nurses are health professionals (side-eye glance at DOE), and you can argue this as clinical experience. So you can be correct technically. But to argue for your professional discernment as a PHYSICIAN, this would be a stretch to those physicians who are judging your profile.

On the PA side, I think this qualifies more as healthcare experience unless you are actively engaged in doing what nurses do with taking vitals or communicating with physicians (more direct care experience). If you aren't working with a chart or patient record when you are in a nursing home, you are in a clinical or healthcare-adjacent setting but not doing clinical work.

One hospice had a hair salon for its residents. Is the barber engaged in a clinical experience?

Working with patients with daily exercises is great. Physical therapists and athletic trainers do this, but the professionals are following doctors orders when it comes to the types of exercises and evaluations to measure specific improvement. Running and lifting weights just for daily activities... that's harder to chalk up as "patient care." (General wellness, of course, yes.)

Patient transport in a hospital vs. in a nursing home is pretty similar so I need more information.