Help! Dog aggressive with other dogs

[Crazy Hippos]

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My dachshund is starting to become aggressive around other dogs. He is neutered so I'm not sure why he's had this sudden change in behavior but I've noticed that it's only around puppies and certain breeds. Can anyone give me advice on how I can stop this? I usually just put him on his back when it happens and say "NO," but it doesn't seem to be working. Is physical touch ever okay? I don't mean spanking (NOT okay), but a Cesar Milan poke?
Thanks gusys!

 

[cowgirla]

My dachshund is starting to become aggressive around other dogs. He is neutered so I'm not sure why he's had this sudden change in behavior but I've noticed that it's only around puppies and certain breeds. Can anyone give me advice on how I can stop this? I usually just put him on his back when it happens and say "NO," but it doesn't seem to be working. Is physical touch ever okay? I don't mean spanking (NOT okay), but a Cesar Milan poke?
Thanks gusys!

Cesar 👎

Make him focus on something else. It's a little different, but my pup used to get overly excited at other dogs, especially bigger ones. As soon as another dog came into view, I'd reverse direction for a few steps (if we were out walking) then ask for a sit, and treat. Or another trick depending on her level of focus at the moment.

I'm no expert, but I imagine positive reinforcement might work better. Start simply-- as soon as he looks at you, give him a treat, and work on getting him to move, voluntarily, away from the other dog. You can use a "watch me" type of command as well.

And if this is sudden onset, have you considered a medical reason? A thyroid check might not hurt, I have heard of that causing temperment changes.

 

[Shanomong]

My dachshund is starting to become aggressive around other dogs. He is neutered so I'm not sure why he's had this sudden change in behavior but I've noticed that it's only around puppies and certain breeds. Can anyone give me advice on how I can stop this? I usually just put him on his back when it happens and say "NO," but it doesn't seem to be working. Is physical touch ever okay? I don't mean spanking (NOT okay), but a Cesar Milan poke?
Thanks gusys!

Aggression in dogs is generally attributed to fear. Poking/punishing will only increase anxiety (even the "NO" and moving him away from the action can cause him increased anxiety and/or association that dogs=punishment). The best thing would be to find a safe spot where you can see dogs but aren't interacting. Find a distance that's just within your dogs comfort zone, where he can be easily distracted with his favorite thing (treats/toy) and let him experience other dogs in relative comfort. Little by little (like, many training sessions... not on the first try) you should be able to be closer to the action without a reaction. I highly recommend watching "It's Me or the Dog" for some good training tips... her methods are AVMA approved. Cesar, on the other hand, is generally not OK with folks in the veterinary world. His methods are not condoned and can be hazardous to the dogs involved, and the owner who tries to mimic and gets bitten (slightly OT... I know you weren't suggesting going full on alpha-roll on the dog 😉, but it's good info. I didn't know this before vet school!)

Good luck with your pup. Your vet and/or a behaviorist is always a good place to go for info if the situation seems beyond your control!

You can use a "watch me" type of command as well.

And if this is sudden onset, have you considered a medical reason? A thyroid check might not hurt, I have heard of that causing temperment changes.

^^Also great info

 

[Crazy Hippos]

Cesar 👎

Make him focus on something else. It's a little different, but my pup used to get overly excited at other dogs, especially bigger ones. As soon as another dog came into view, I'd reverse direction for a few steps (if we were out walking) then ask for a sit, and treat. Or another trick depending on her level of focus at the moment.

I'm no expert, but I imagine positive reinforcement might work better. Start simply-- as soon as he looks at you, give him a treat, and work on getting him to move, voluntarily, away from the other dog. You can use a "watch me" type of command as well.

And if this is sudden onset, have you considered a medical reason? A thyroid check might not hurt, I have heard of that causing temperment changes.

He just got his bloodwork done and everything was okay. Maybe it's just PMS. 😛

I should also mention that his "episodes" happen at the dog run so it's hard to get him away from the other dogs without physically taking him out of the run (which I have been doing). It's a real shame though. I'd really love for him to have fun with the other dogs like he used to.

 

[NStarz]

This is a situation that we cannot help because we don't know your dog. I would recommend speaking to a veterinary behaviorist or qualified trainer that can get to the bottom of your pooch's issues and work through them with you.

I would recommend NOT doing ANYTHING until you consult someone with intimate knowledge of your dog and his specific aggression issues. (Not to say you don't know anything about behavior, but...) If you attempt to fix this yourself, you may get you and your dog into trouble. My dog was attacking my other dog and I consulted outside advice, despite the fact that I am very knowledgeable about dog behavior. I was just too close to the situation to see it objectively.

Like everyone else said, Cesar is not good news. No tirade intended, but at the bottom of the screen on his show says "don't try this at home." Never will you find such a warning accompanying It's Me or the Dog's positive reinforcement training methods.

Just to be clear, dog-dog aggression does NOT lead to or is any way related to a dog showing aggression towards people. They are entirely separate entities, so don't let anyone bully you into thinking otherwise.

With any aggression issues, you need a professional. Don't want to step on anyone's toes, but it is very difficult to come up with a behavioral modification plan or even say "do this, do that" without knowing the specific situation. Good luck!

ETA: I just reread the OP. "I usually just put him on his back when it happens and say "NO," but it doesn't seem to be working." That seems like alpha-rolling to me, Shanomong. Alpha-rolling is a component of so-called "dominance theory" in that your dog is misbehaving/doing something normal dogs do in order to dominate his/her owner. Dominance theory is NOT applicable to dogs, and is even an over-emphasized theory in wolves. Often, there is more than one breeding female in a wolf pack (disproving the "alpha female" theory). Anyway, as Shanomong said, alpha-rolling is not a technique condoned by the AVMA and is an outdated and dangerous training technique. In all honesty, it's a really good way to get bit!

I don't mean to attack, and I'm sorry if it came off that way, I just want to make sure you are doing right by yourself and by your dog. As I said, I believe it would be best for you to seek out a qualified (CTC, CCPDT, etc.) dog trainer or a veterinary behaviorist.

 

[Shanomong]

"I usually just put him on his back when it happens and say "NO," but it doesn't seem to be working." That seems like alpha-rolling to me, Shanomong.

TOTALLY missed that. I read it as "pull him back".

I agree that a behaviorist is a good idea, but I disagree that implementing the other methods in the meantime (or if you arent able to see a behaviorist due to cost/availability in your area/etc...) is a bad idea. I've spent some time with the behaviorists here at Penn and they truly believe (i didn't want to speak in absolutes before because I personally don't agree with anything being an absolute..) that all dog aggression is fear based, and generally recommend the above. I would venture to say though, if your attempts at effecting a change with positive reinforcement fail, you should speak to a vet regarding alternative measures +/- chemical intervention.

Also, even if all of the bloodwork is normal, you might want to consider your dogs diet and make sure his nutritional needs are being met appropriately. Nutrition can have a big impact on behavior. And that's something you should speak to a vet about.

 

[sumstorm]

Stop taking your dog to places where it gets to practice the behavior.

If it can't do dog runs well, then don't take him to dog runs. I realize that seems like really basic advice, but practice makes permenant. If he is stessed or fearful enough to become aggressive, why would you keep doing it?

Have you discussed this behavior with a vet that focuses on behavior? Not even suggesting a specialist, but there are vets that are not speciaists that are focused on behavior. Other vets are using archaic and inappropriate techniques.

Just like you wouldn't go leaping out of a plane without training because you saw it on TV, don't go poking, yanking, or flipping dogs because you saw it on TV. Especially that breed; you can risk back damage.

You need to work with a knowledgable professional. Until then, control the environment, don't put your dogs in situations where it is likely to aggress.

 

[BarnyardPunch]

My pound mutt was totally fine at the dog park until he started to grow out of puppy play. He *h a t e s* adolescent dogs now. He doesn't go after them unprovoked, but if they approach him and do the licky licky face thing, he'll show his teeth and trot off.

My dog is very alpha, so I'm not sure if the young dogs are ingratiating themselves to him or what, but they tend to be very persistent. He's said "go away" and will remove himself from the puppy several times, but if it insists on getting in my dog's face--it's over. The puppy will be pinned and my dog will go OFF. Mind you, he's not really biting the puppy hard, but making a huge show of if it. He will not let the puppy up till I pull him off, a definite over-correction. Not a great way to make dog park friends, so if we show up to the park and there are lots of goofy 10 month old Labs running around, we go for a walk instead.

Anyway, I probably fall into the 80% positive reinforcement/20% correction category for behavior modification with my dogs. I'm not opposed to physically correcting a dog, but rolling them on their backs just seems both ineffectual and potentially dangerous, especially with other dogs around.

What's helped (but not 100% fixed) my dog is:

- be willing to pack up your toys and go home. If he's acting out, he's instantly done for the day. He's able to put 2 and 2 together pretty quick on this

- watching for early signs of annoyance and removing ourselves for a quick walk around outside the park to change the dynamic

-being more vocal with the other owners. Often they're on their cell phones or socializing and not paying attention at all. I'll proactively ask them to engage with their dog elsewhere. Yeah, my dog should behave himself, but their nudge of a dog should have something better to do too

- as sunstorm mentioned, don't set your dog up for failure. If you know your dog is reactive to a particular age or type of other dog, avoid them. Make sure your dog is playing with other dogs that are age and size appropriate

With regard to neutering, from what I understand and what we generally communicated at the S/N clinic I used to work at, neutering on its own does not help much at all for behavior modification.

Good luck!

 

[deleted266066]

Not to be a spoil sport, but I thought we couldn't give medical advice on here? Given that vets specialized in behavior are typically the one to go to for this type of issue, I thought that would fall under the category of vet med advice as well...?

Don't mean to step on anyone's toes or anything, but I'd like to know what kinds of questions are appropriate to ask in case I eventually have a question along this line myself and can avoid getting the thread locked if it's okay (or not okay) 🙂

 

[cowgirla]

Not to be a spoil sport, but I thought we couldn't give medical advice on here? Given that vets specialized in behavior are typically the one to go to for this type of issue, I thought that would fall under the category of vet med advice as well...?

Don't mean to step on anyone's toes or anything, but I'd like to know what kinds of questions are appropriate to ask in case I eventually have a question along this line myself and can avoid getting the thread locked if it's okay (or not okay) 🙂

Who knows....

It seems to be mostly the "should I put my dog down" or "how do i convince my parents not to put my cat down" type of threads that get locked. I've seen bunches of behavioral threads. I guess the logic is something like 'only a vet can euthanize or treat medically,' but there are dozens of ways to be qualified to give training advice?

 

[BarnyardPunch]

Not to be a spoil sport, but I thought we couldn't give medical advice on here? Given that vets specialized in behavior are typically the one to go to for this type of issue, I thought that would fall under the category of vet med advice as well...?
🙂

It's funny several of you have mentioned going to the vet for behavior reasons. Aside from going in to rule out a pathological cause to behavior problems, I'd never even thought of asking a vet for training advice. Of all the vets I've used for my own animals and the ones I've worked for, none of them would have had much of a clue in that area!

With regard to locking the thread, behavior advice isn't medical advice, so while it's off topic, doesn't seem like they should lock the thread unless people started suggestion physiological reasons for the behavior or specific medical treatments. But then, I'm not a moderator either 😀

 

[NStarz]

🙄

Not to be a spoil sport, but I thought we couldn't give medical advice on here? Given that vets specialized in behavior are typically the one to go to for this type of issue, I thought that would fall under the category of vet med advice as well...?

Don't mean to step on anyone's toes or anything, but I'd like to know what kinds of questions are appropriate to ask in case I eventually have a question along this line myself and can avoid getting the thread locked if it's okay (or not okay) 🙂

I was thinking this as well. You wouldn't go onto the pediatrician forum and ask for help with your child (or jerking your child around on a choke collar or shocking them with a shock collar, as it were 🙄).

 

[sideways]

I'm not a vet, but even *I* know you need to be the Paaag Leeeyer...

 

[Crazy Hippos]

I know vets and Cesar Milan do not agree (I believe there was a previous thread on this). I don't condone his methods, but the "poke" seemed okay since it snapped the dog out of it without being physically painful. After reading the comments though, it seems that this would be ineffective, so fear not, I will not poke (and have not poked)!

Funny enough, my vet is actually the one who recommended that I put him on his back, clap my hands, and then say "NO!" I realize that he is not an animal behaviorist so I'll seek professional help. If anyone can recommend a good trainer in Columbus, OH, please let me know!

Thanks for the advice!!!

 

[karmapple]

If anyone can recommend a good trainer in Columbus, OH, please let me know!

If you live in Columbus, you are lucky enough to be near a vet school and have access to the veterinary behaviorist at OSU. You can call the front desk of the SA Veterinary Teaching Hospital about scheduling, cost, etc.

 

[twelvetigers]

Noooooo where did the bouncy poodle go? 🙁

 

[ReadyBeVet]

Alpha rolling isn't going to be helpful.

Check out this link regarding dominance: http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/dominance statement.pdf

 

[cowgirla]

Noooooo where did the bouncy poodle go? 🙁

...Bad things happen when you go away for a week

 

[karmapple]

Noooooo where did the bouncy poodle go? 🙁

This from the person that is always switching avatars on us! 😉

I'm sure the bouncy poodle will make a reappearance.

 

[sumstorm]

With regard to locking the thread, behavior advice isn't medical advice, so while it's off topic, doesn't seem like they should lock the thread unless people started suggestion physiological reasons for the behavior or specific medical treatments. But then, I'm not a moderator either 😀

Actually, aggression is an issue for experts. Technically, part of the concern in givin advice is the liabiity of the site when a lay person reads and follows the advice. Just saying 'aggressive' starts to put it in a realm where anything other than 'don't keep causing it to happen' and 'seek a professional' is irresponsible, because advice might endanger the dog or handler.

 

[dyachei]

It is against SDN's terms of service to ask for medical advice. Closing thread, please see link for details

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=729693