Help I don't understand MONEY

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I never understand the purpose of questions like that. Do you literally think things through before you post? Do you really think you're going to have the same car for 30+ years? Do you understand how many factors are necessary for giving that question an even half-a** accurate answer? What's your husbands/wife's income going to be?

Seriously, the new golden rule for any pre-med money question is this: If you are ever concerned about money, work hard in undergrad, get into an average priced medical school. Work hard in medical school, get into an aspect of medicine that typically pays average or better. Work hard in residency. manage your money well. Don't buy a bunch of brand new **** as soon as you start making money. You still should reward yourself, but don't go insane and spend 500k your first year. If you do these things as a physician, you will be in a good situation financially. You aren't even close to a situation where putting numbers to anything is viable. We're talking 10+ years before questions like that even are plausible in terms of their complexity and the rapidly changing nature of life/medical profession.
 
PL198 said:
I never understand the purpose of questions like that. Do you literally think things through before you post? Do you really think you're going to have the same car for 30+ years? Do you understand how many factors are necessary for giving that question an even half-a** accurate answer? What's your husbands/wife's income going to be?

Seriously, the new golden rule for any pre-med money question is this: If you are ever concerned about money, work hard in undergrad, get into an average priced medical school. Work hard in medical school, get into an aspect of medicine that typically pays average or better. Work hard in residency. manage your money well. Don't buy a bunch of brand new **** as soon as you start making money. You still should reward yourself, but don't go insane and spend 500k your first year. If you do these things as a physician, you will be in a good situation financially. You aren't even close to a situation where putting numbers to anything is viable. We're talking 10+ years before questions like that even are plausible in terms of their complexity and the rapidly changing nature of life/medical profession.
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Last questions: How long is anesthesiologist residency( Is it 3 years + an internship year making it four or is the internship year apart of the 3) ? Can they practice with dentist, or do dentist administer their own anesthesia? How easily do DO match into anesthesia?
 
listener23 said:
Last questions: How long is anesthesiologist residency( Is it 3 years + an internship year making it four or is the internship year apart of the 3) ? Can they practice with dentist, or do dentist administer their own anesthesia? How easily do DO match into anesthesia?
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Gas is 4 years total. With the exception of MFS dentists do their own gas. Anesthesia is one of the friendlier DO specialties.
 
Certified Financial Planners can help you understand net worth, income minus expenses (including complex debt) over time, and the relative/compared financial pay-offs from different career paths. I personally hired Ameriprise, but there are many out there. Just don't choose someone on commission or they will likely provide bias information and try to sell you stuff like junky insurance policies. (If you want to make an appointment to get help comparing the pay-outs of different careers, you should say so when you make the appointment AND ask what information will be necessary to make those estimates. You can then gather the information and bring it to an expert. These calculations can be more difficult than they seem. IMO, they are easy to mess up by oversimplifying, overlooking/leaving out factors.)

Some stuff to consider:
Length of career (and amount of time for your retirement accounts to grow interest income)
Expense of training (and lack of high income during the years in training)
How long it takes to work your way up to a higher pay rate (differs drastically depending on your occupation)
Average pay per hour despite annual numbers
Bonus amounts (more relevant if comparing medical careers to financial, business, or legal careers)
Career-Related Expenses (like what will be deducted from your income)
HR Benefits (like free gym, free meals, free childcare/daycare, etc. Some occupations get better freebies than others.)
Impact of your work on your health and mental health (you WILL end up paying for that too)
Quality of life (if the point of your making money is to enjoy life)

etc.
 
Last edited:
listener23 said:
Last questions: How long is anesthesiologist residency( Is it 3 years + an internship year making it four or is the internship year apart of the 3) ? Can they practice with dentist, or do dentist administer their own anesthesia? How easily do DO match into anesthesia?
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Listen, if you're chasing money, reevaluate your decision to pursue medicine. The financial nature of medicine has been changing for decades and its only changing faster. Pursuing a medical degree is by far one of the hardest things anyone can do, which is why I think it is given so much respect (despite even the respect becoming a diminishing return).

Their is no easy route in any of this (MD/DO).

And when I saw business's opportunities, I am not referring to becoming a TV doctor. I'm talking about MSO's, urgent care centers, etc... I know plenty of physicians who use start the companies because there MD/DO opens the opportunity. These physicians then sit back and enjoy the returns from these businesses. This opens up flexibility on their part to work the hours they want to in the clinical setting.
 
WillburCobb said:
Gas is 4 years total. With the exception of MFS dentists do their own gas. Anesthesia is one of the friendlier DO specialties.
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Coolest nickname ever
osckey said:
Listen, if you're chasing money, reevaluate your decision to pursue medicine. The financial nature of medicine has been changing for decades and its only changing faster. Pursuing a medical degree is by far one of the hardest things anyone can do, which is why I think it is given so much respect (despite even the respect becoming a diminishing return).

Their is no easy route in any of this (MD/DO).

And when I saw business's opportunities, I am not referring to becoming a TV doctor. I'm talking about MSO's, urgent care centers, etc... I know plenty of physicians who use start the companies because there MD/DO opens the opportunity. These physicians then sit back and enjoy the returns from these businesses. This opens up flexibility on their part to work the hours they want to in the clinical setting.
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Who the hell said I was chasing money, Im an engineering major I could easily use that as a source of 6 figures right out of undergrad with out the worry of 200k in student loans....
 
jonnythan said:
You can be rich!
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To my standards any of the 2 career path would make me rich. But I shadowed an engineer and many physicians i really cant see myself doing anything else but medicine. Enough talk its time to prove it on the mcat
 
NervousNerd said:
Really? Man I was in vanguard index funds since I was 19. Take a few hours this weekend and read up. It really was a great decision I made years ago
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Yea i know its bad but I've been on a google binge studying retirement since I opened this thread. It'll take a few weeks but i should be ok
 
listener23 said:
To my standards any of the 2 career path would make me rich. But I shadowed an engineer and many physicians i really cant see myself doing anything else but medicine. Enough talk its time to prove it on the mcat
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Don't worry about being rich, man. You won't really get rich through work; you get rich through your capital. While the latter is related to your income, it isn't entirely correlated with it. A lot of the people you see out there who look "rich" (doctors included) actually aren't, despite their high incomes. Look up "lifestyle creep" for the explanation of how this happens.

If you want to be a doctor, if it's the kind of job you would do even if you were a billionaire, then focus on that. Be smart with your money, however much you make, and work on the other stuff that matters.
 
Gauss44 said:
Certified Financial Planners can help you understand net worth, income minus expenses (including complex debt) over time, and the relative/compared financial pay-offs from different career paths. I personally hired Ameriprise, but there are many out there. Just don't choose someone on commission or they will likely provide bias information and try to sell you stuff like junky insurance policies. (If you want to make an appointment to get help comparing the pay-outs of different careers, you should say so when you make the appointment AND ask what information will be necessary to make those estimates. You can then gather the information and bring it to an expert. These calculations can be more difficult than they seem. IMO, they are easy to mess up by oversimplifying, overlooking/leaving out factors.)

Some stuff to consider:
Length of career (and amount of time for your retirement accounts to grow interest income)
Expense of training (and lack of high income during the years in training)
How long it takes to work your way up to a higher pay rate (differs drastically depending on your occupation)
Average pay per hour despite annual numbers
Bonus amounts (more relevant if comparing medical careers to financial, business, or legal careers)
Career-Related Expenses (like what will be deducted from your income)
HR Benefits (like free gym, free meals, free childcare/daycare, etc. Some occupations get better freebies than others.)
Impact of your work on your health and mental health (you WILL end up paying for that too)
Quality of life (if the point of your making money is to enjoy life)

etc.
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Are you serious? You did this as a pre-med? You paid someone who knows very little actually about medicine, to plan out the value of your potential career, which basically no one knows as the administration is people is going to significantly change physician's compensation. If you have common sense, you don't need things like these. Anyone good enough to give me advice about my career from a financial perspective where I would believe them, is either out a student's price range, or family. So I really hope you're related to them.
 
listener23 said:
I see what you are saying but I live by the saying " you can't take it all with you". The average black male in my state dies around 67-69 (males die quick in my family, they usually get on dialysis at around 60 and die a few years later, so I'm looking at around 63-65). I don't want to live modest for 50 years just to only get to enjoy life for 15. I want get a wife have 3 kids and go on lavish vacations and buy my wife a nice car while I'm around and able bodied
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LOL! Idk why but this post is funny to me
 
listener23 said:
I see what you are saying but I live by the saying " you can't take it all with you". The average black male in my state dies around 67-69 (males die quick in my family, they usually get on dialysis at around 60 and die a few years later, so I'm looking at around 63-65). I don't want to live modest for 50 years just to only get to enjoy life for 15. I want get a wife have 3 kids and go on lavish vacations and buy my wife a nice car while I'm around and able bodied
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Hey man, missed this the first time around

Don't worry about cars or lavish vacations or any stupid stuff like that. You know what your wife and kids will care about? Quality time with you--that's cheap! You should be able to provide for them, of course, but this doesn't entail expensive stuff. Your enjoyment of life won't come from your income or from being rich, it'll come from spending time with friends and family and working a job that means a lot to you. Medicine may well fulfill this but you should really think about it first.

I've mentioned Roth IRAs and other stuff in this thread, but from what you've said here, your priority should really be on adjusting your mentality. I had a similar attitude for a long time and it didn't do me any good. Studies have shown that beyond a certain point (~$70k or so), increased income has little to do with happiness.

EDIT: By the way, please don't take this as me criticizing you, I really don't mean it that way.
 
blackkrim said:
Hey man, missed this the first time around

Don't worry about cars or lavish vacations or any stupid stuff like that. You know what your wife and kids will care about? Quality time with you--that's cheap! You should be able to provide for them, of course, but this doesn't entail expensive stuff. Your enjoyment of life won't come from your income or from being rich, it'll come from spending time with friends and family and working a job that means a lot to you. Medicine may well fulfill this but you should really think about it first.

I've mentioned Roth IRAs and other stuff in this thread, but from what you've said here, your priority should really be on adjusting your mentality. I had a similar attitude for a long time and it didn't do me any good. Studies have shown that beyond a certain point (~$70k or so), increased income has little to do with happiness.

EDIT: By the way, please don't take this as me criticizing you, I really don't mean it that way.
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I don't think your criticizing but you make it seem like I only care about money. I just wanted to be schooled a little on how having money works. This post is rather pointless I should be spending my energy focused on getting into a school first
 
listener23 said:
I don't think your criticizing but you make it seem like I only care about money. I just wanted to be schooled a little on how having money works. This post is rather pointless I should be spending my energy focused on getting into a school first
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Haha well I don't know you so all I have to go by is what you've posted here. You're probably a really chill dude and I trust that you're motivated to go into medicine for the right reasons. I don't think this post has been pointless; like it or not, money is important and I hope all this info helped you. Best of luck, man.
 
Whole Foods is the coolest thing ever. Any time I'll go into a grocery store and not buy anything(because it's all so damn expensive), but just look around for stuff, you know it's awesome.
 
listener23 said:
Yea i know its bad but I've been on a google binge studying retirement since I opened this thread. It'll take a few weeks but i should be ok
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That's a great start! That's how I went about it for myself. Just be sure to have a hearty understanding of all the options and nuisances before investing in a specific fund. Good luck and PM if you have specific questions!
 
PL198 said:
Whole Foods is the coolest thing ever. Any time I'll go into a grocery store and not buy anything(because it's all so damn expensive), but just look around for stuff, you know it's awesome.
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The store is smelly and over priced, even for common brand things (La Croix, etc). Too bad this is the only grocery store in my school town and am not willing to spend so much. Anyone try Peapod beforE?
 
magicaldinosaur said:
The store is smelly and over priced, even for common brand things (La Croix, etc). Too bad this is the only grocery store in my school town and am not willing to spend so much. Anyone try Peapod beforE?
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There's more than one Whole Foods. They don't all smell. I usually rationalize the higher price by shamelessly eating all the cheese samples (oh! Maybe that's why it smells!). But a rich person can go to whatever grocery store and get everything they want.
 
PreciousHamburgers said:
There's more than one Whole Foods. They don't all smell. I usually rationalize the higher price by shamelessly eating all the cheese samples (oh! Maybe that's why it smells!). But a rich person can go to whatever grocery store and get everything they want.
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LOL. I've been to probably 6 and they all smell. There's actually two in even my small town. I think it's the products they have. But yeah, unless I see the difference in ingredients, I can't justify Aldi vs Whole Foods. But, I am starving. I haven't eaten a decent meal in 4 days. Yesterday I was physically sick and didn't think it was because I didn't eat.
 
magicaldinosaur said:
LOL. I've been to probably 6 and they all smell. There's actually two in even my small town. I think it's the products they have. But yeah, unless I see the difference in ingredients, I can't justify Aldi vs Whole Foods. But, I am starving. I haven't eaten a decent meal in 4 days. Yesterday I was physically sick and didn't think it was because I didn't eat.
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Costco and BJ's are the best. I can't stand my local grocery stores because I live in the ghetto (that's probably not the PC term). I also rationalize paying higher prices at Whole Foods because I don't have to deal with ignorant loudmouths... There was a time after I graduated where I couldn't afford food, so I really don't mind spending money on food now.
 
There were people who thought I was rich growing up because I lived in a single family house and my parents paid for food with cash (not food stamps). I think those people would either laugh or get angry to hear white people say that doctors aren't rich. So, you're right, "rich" is a relative term. Because of my background, and even though I make a comfortable living now, I definitely consider most doctors to be rich, even though I intellectually understand that in the larger picture in the US they are more likely middle to upper-middle class.
 
PreciousHamburgers said:
Costco and BJ's are the best. I can't stand my local grocery stores because I live in the ghetto (that's probably not the PC term). I also rationalize paying higher prices at Whole Foods because I don't have to deal with ignorant loudmouths... There was a time after I graduated where I couldn't afford food, so I really don't mind spending money on food now.
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I've been to Whole Foods and Trader Joe's a few times, and the people there are more annoying than the people at Walmart or the grocery. Target seems like a good middle ground for clientele..
 
jonnythan said:
I've been to Whole Foods and Trader Joe's a few times, and the people there are more annoying than the people at Walmart or the grocery. Target seems like a good middle ground for clientele..
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Especially when they don't know Aldi owns TJ's and repackages many of the same products lol.
 
magicaldinosaur said:
Especially when they don't know Aldi owns TJ's and repackages many of the same products lol.
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True. But it is important to not go to the grocery store hungry, because then everyone everywhere is terrible. I mean, if I overhear someone in Whole Foods asking if the pink salt is gluten-free my head explodes a little bit, but it's not as bad as listening to some trashy woman scream at her awful kids that 'they ain't gettin' nothin'!' with the thickest Boston accent you've ever heard.
 
PreciousHamburgers said:
True. But it is important to not go to the grocery store hungry, because then everyone everywhere is terrible. I mean, if I overhear someone in Whole Foods asking if the pink salt is gluten-free my head explodes a little bit, but it's not as bad as listening to some trashy woman scream at her awful kids that 'they ain't gettin' nothin'!' with the thickest Boston accent you've ever heard.
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I agree, but Whole Foods is screwing you while they screw you. You pay for the container instead of just the food and they lie about how much is in the containers. http://time.com/2920613/whole-foods-overcharging/
 
osckey said:
You may see that, in time, your MD will open up many doors for business endeavors. I know many physicians using their MD to attract business offers.

The business endeavors that open up due to having a medical degree can prove to be far more lucrative than the actual application of your medical knowledge in a clinical setting.
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And if there's one thing physician's are known for, it's making sound business investment decisions.
 
TheWeeIceMan said:
And if there's one thing physician's are known for, it's making sound business investment decisions.
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LOLOLOL this a million times over. The average physician is so financially illiterate it's scary. I feel like if you compared them to the average person, their knowledge is worse, or just the same and more dangerous. I mean that as in, due to being a doctor, a lot of people have a false sense of being able to successfully manage their money, which is more dangerous than not knowing what you are doing and being aware of this.

I literally know students that day trade.
 
PL198 said:
LOLOLOL this a million times over. The average physician is so financially illiterate it's scary. I feel like if you compared them to the average person, their knowledge is worse, or just the same and more dangerous. I mean that as in, due to being a doctor, a lot of people have a false sense of being able to successfully manage their money, which is more dangerous than not knowing what you are doing and being aware of this.

I literally know students that day trade.
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Has anyone tried to determine if non-trads do better with their finances because they have been outside of academia?
 
It took about half a page for me to realize two things:
1. The OP is either a troll, idiot, or still in middle school. (see they're/their/there confusion & lack of basic money skills learned once outside the parent's nest)
2. The OP has no interest in learning about money, investing, or why having a high gross income (most all physicians) does not equate to a guaranteed high net worth (very few physicians). Makes you wonder why someone would ask a question with the intent to disregard the answer.

Seems more like a thread spawned by a rhetorical question to me but I'll add this just in case...http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+white+coat+investor
 
Disapproving dog disapproves.
disapproving+dog.JPG
 
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