MD2b20004

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OCD as a kid
depression on and off between 18-22
HUGE ANXIETY and PANIC ATTACKS from 19-now but mostly highest where it became disabling was the past 2 years. like so bad that like i dropped out of med school and lost tons of money cause i found out i was green/red color blind and the panic made me have all these irrational thoughts that my eyes will be worse, i wont be able to pay off my cosigner, etc.... same thing happened when i enrolled in MBA. basically my anxiety and panic attack is so bad i cant work or go to school for the past 2 years. no family support really, they are old school and unless they see a tumor 10 inches on ur head they dont think ur sick.

my currect meds are : 20mg lexepro once per day, 400 mg seraquil once at night, 2mg xanax 3 times a day, what you guys think of my situation, meds, prognosis, when is that light at the end of the tunnel going to show up, when am i going to improve enough to function and due my daily duties and stop living like a a paniky vegetible.
Thanks for ur advice.
 

Anasazi23

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I think we'd need a lot more formal case-presentation style information before we could legitimately evaluate your medication list or come up with a reasonable diagnostic differential.

What does being red/green colorblind have to do with dropping out of medical school?
 

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this is absolutely not the correct place to get good answers, many/most of us are not psychiatrists, or even close. please take any advice with that in mind. good luck.
 

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From my background in psychology/medicine, it sounds like you might have a more serious underlying thought disorder that is manifesting itself as co-morbid anxiety/panic/depression. Go see a new psychiatrist and get a second opinion.
 
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Anasazi23 said:
I think we'd need a lot more formal case-presentation style information before we could legitimately evaluate your medication list or come up with a reasonable diagnostic differential.

What does being red/green colorblind have to do with dropping out of medical school?

The anxiety and panic attacks get to high enough levels that make u think irrationally to the point where u know its over worrying but the green/red color blind was just the only trigger i needed for the panic and anxiety to set in and take over my mind and body mentally and physically and make me believe that my eyes will just get worse, i wont be able to see good enough to be a doc, i wont make it to a residency, i wont be able to pay off my loans and i had a cosigner what if i went blind or my eyes got worse, look up GAD and panic disorder in its most extreme form and u will understand.
 

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Hang in there my friend, There are many of us out there who have experianced this kind of challange and have not recieved the quick recovery society or even ourselves anticipate. There is an awnser for you out there, you have just not yet found it. I understand the whole thought process(one after the other, after the other, on top of the other etc.) that you spoke of, and also understand the feeling that nothing will ever work for you. Iunderstand all of your future concerns and aphrension anxiety. Dont beat yourself up about leaving medical school you can always go back, and trust me be a better physician for it. But you must first help your self no matter how long it takes. Take comfort in knowing that you are in no way unique in what you are going through no matter what thoughts cross your mind. Continue to work with your doctor or possibly find a new one to whome you can better relate.

and hey dude there are people out there rooting for you that your not even aware of....also remember God loves you, never become bitter, life in not easy
 

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MD2b20004 said:
OCD as a kid
depression on and off between 18-22
HUGE ANXIETY and PANIC ATTACKS from 19-now but mostly highest where it became disabling was the past 2 years. like so bad that like i dropped out of med school and lost tons of money cause i found out i was green/red color blind and the panic made me have all these irrational thoughts that my eyes will be worse, i wont be able to pay off my cosigner, etc.... same thing happened when i enrolled in MBA. basically my anxiety and panic attack is so bad i cant work or go to school for the past 2 years. no family support really, they are old school and unless they see a tumor 10 inches on ur head they dont think ur sick.

my currect meds are : 20mg lexepro once per day, 400 mg seraquil once at night, 2mg xanax 3 times a day, what you guys think of my situation, meds, prognosis, when is that light at the end of the tunnel going to show up, when am i going to improve enough to function and due my daily duties and stop living like a a paniky vegetible.
Thanks for ur advice.
1. if you are not satisfied w/ u'r tx, get a new psychiatrist
2. Think of CBT as an add-on to meds.
 

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Not to be insensitive, but in my law & medicine class when I was a medstudent, the teacher who was a practicing lawyer reccomended that no doctor ever give medical advice to someone who is not officially their patient. Of course there's exceptions such as if the person is in an emergency. Otherwise the best course of action is to refer that person to the doctor or establish a specfic patient-doctor relationship with that person.

Supposedly the repurcussions are that if you give this person any advice--any outcome however bad is now your legal responsibility, because by telling that patient some advice you are now legally their doctor and bound by the doctor patient relationship--which allows you to be sued should anything go wrong if any bad outcome is associated with your advice.

Given that advice is often in a setting where labs, a thorough history, physical exam and other things cannot be taken, you're opening yourself up to some risk with giving advice to such a person.

Note that the lawyer did also mention that advice could be given if someone were to say "in theory if someone had these symptoms---what would you do?" Because in that situation there is no one who is specificially becoming your patient. Note in the above example, the poster is specifically referring to himself.
 

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Point well taken

However there is nothing wrong with some words of support and encouragement, when one is in need, and should be one of the few reasons we have chosen to enter medicine :thumbup:
 

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InfiniteUni, where did you get the image of the Fukitol pill??! That's absolutely hilarious! :laugh:
 

scienceguy

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When did u Graduate Adelphi
I also graduated there
Doing The MSc in molecular Biology Now @ AU
Interested in Psych
Where do You go to School Now
 

bth7

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whopper said:
Not to be insensitive, but in my law & medicine class when I was a medstudent, the teacher who was a practicing lawyer reccomended that no doctor ever give medical advice to someone who is not officially their patient. Of course there's exceptions such as if the person is in an emergency. Otherwise the best course of action is to refer that person to the doctor or establish a specfic patient-doctor relationship with that person.

Supposedly the repurcussions are that if you give this person any advice--any outcome however bad is now your legal responsibility, because by telling that patient some advice you are now legally their doctor and bound by the doctor patient relationship--which allows you to be sued should anything go wrong if any bad outcome is associated with your advice.

Given that advice is often in a setting where labs, a thorough history, physical exam and other things cannot be taken, you're opening yourself up to some risk with giving advice to such a person.

Note that the lawyer did also mention that advice could be given if someone were to say "in theory if someone had these symptoms---what would you do?" Because in that situation there is no one who is specificially becoming your patient. Note in the above example, the poster is specifically referring to himself.

This post is really depressing to me. The idea that you would not give your full effort to helping someone because of legal concerns is another unfortunate sign that our society has become so litigous as to be dysfunctional.

"Supposedly the repercussions are . . . you are legal responsible?" Supposedly? You don't sound very convinced. I'm certainly not.

What about your moral responsiblity? Does that mean anything? Or even on a more basic level then that . . . would you simply not want to help another human being?

What if you did simply hide behind the law, keep your mouth shut and send them to a doctor? And what if that doctor gave them horrible treatment . . . would you be "legally responsible" for that?

The frustrating truth which the poster must undoubtedly live with every day is that ultimately he is the one responsible. He must get up every morning and live with this dibilitating condition. He must learn to live with it, and he must make the choices that we bring him to wellness. This is reality.

A psychaitrist would no doubt be a valuable ally in that process, having access to special options and knowledge. I would highly recommend finding a good one.

But I'd also encourage him to talk to friends and peers. Since you were a med student at one point, it would seem your discussing it in this forum is an attempt to do just that. Perhaps you could find client forums, to seek out others with your condition, and learn what resources they used. I'd also recommend wholeheartedly trying some of the myriad practices that people have used throughout history to cope with anxiety . . . prayer, meditation, yoga, diet, exercise, etc.

Lastly, I'd suggest that you find some way to educate your family. You need their support. Without it, you may find that the external distruptions created by your anxiety attacks are worse then they need to be.

Best of luck.
 

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bth7 said:
What if you did simply hide behind the law, keep your mouth shut and send them to a doctor? And what if that doctor gave them horrible treatment . . . would you be "legally responsible" for that?
No, so long as the physician is properly licensed (and, if the condition dicates it, specialty certified).

IMO, the OP will fare better with a real psychiatrist than receiving anonymous advice from a "virtual" forum like this one, no matter how well intentioned.
 

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Im so glad you posted what you did...I feel the exacct same way, but honistly did not want to turn this discussion into an arguement

bth7 said:
This post is really depressing to me. The idea that you would not give your full effort to helping someone because of legal concerns is another unfortunate sign that our society has become so litigous as to be dysfunctional.

"Supposedly the repercussions are . . . you are legal responsible?" Supposedly? You don't sound very convinced. I'm certainly not.

What about your moral responsiblity? Does that mean anything? Or even on a more basic level then that . . . would you simply not want to help another human being?

What if you did simply hide behind the law, keep your mouth shut and send them to a doctor? And what if that doctor gave them horrible treatment . . . would you be "legally responsible" for that?

The frustrating truth which the poster must undoubtedly live with every day is that ultimately he is the one responsible. He must get up every morning and live with this dibilitating condition. He must learn to live with it, and he must make the choices that we bring him to wellness. This is reality.

A psychaitrist would no doubt be a valuable ally in that process, having access to special options and knowledge. I would highly recommend finding a good one.

But I'd also encourage him to talk to friends and peers. Since you were a med student at one point, it would seem your discussing it in this forum is an attempt to do just that. Perhaps you could find client forums, to seek out others with your condition, and learn what resources they used. I'd also recommend wholeheartedly trying some of the myriad practices that people have used throughout history to cope with anxiety . . . prayer, meditation, yoga, diet, exercise, etc.

Lastly, I'd suggest that you find some way to educate your family. You need their support. Without it, you may find that the external distruptions created by your anxiety attacks are worse then they need to be.

Best of luck.
 

bth7

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Point #1

Part of the "advice" he's receiving on the this anonymous forum is to see a psychatrist.

Point #2 This isn't able "advice" - its about support. And you can never get too much of that - virtual, anonymous or otherwise. In fact, sometimes the only place people feel safe discussing such issues is in a place such as this.

People pipe right up to endlessly discuss their board scores or their annoying psyiology prof, but when someone comes around actually needing help everyone wants to have an intelectual debate about legal responsibility. It pisses me off. It really shows where your average med student mind is at - up their own ahole.
 

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scienceguy said:
However there is nothing wrong with some words of support and encouragement, when one is in need, and should be one of the few reasons we have chosen to enter medicine :thumbup:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. :thumbup:
 

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bth7 said:
This post is really depressing to me. The idea that you would not give your full effort to helping someone because of legal concerns is another unfortunate sign that our society has become so litigous as to be dysfunctional.

"Supposedly the repercussions are . . . you are legal responsible?" Supposedly? You don't sound very convinced. I'm certainly not.

What about your moral responsiblity? Does that mean anything? Or even on a more basic level then that . . . would you simply not want to help another human being?
"moral responsibility" is the reason why you shouldn't give advice on an internet forum. it would be unethical to give advice without first properly establishing a legitimate physician-patient relationship.
 

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doc05 said:
"moral responsibility" is the reason why you shouldn't give advice on an internet forum. it would be unethical to give advice without first properly establishing a legitimate physician-patient relationship.
There's two levels of morality going on here:

1) As physicians, it would be ethically irresponsible for us to diagnose and treat the OP based on his/her cry for help. As you properly point out, we do not have a "legitimate physician-patient relationship" in this case.

However--
2) This person identifies themselves as a peer, on a peer-support network. It is therefore a proper moral and humanistic response to offer support, encouragement, and positive suggestions which they can use in their follow- up with a legitimate physician-patient relationship.
 

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bth7 said:
Point #1

Part of the "advice" he's receiving on the this anonymous forum is to see a psychatrist.

Point #2 This isn't able "advice" - its about support. And you can never get too much of that - virtual, anonymous or otherwise. In fact, sometimes the only place people feel safe discussing such issues is in a place such as this.
Whether it is support or advice, I still believe that the principal problem is that we cannot be sure of the OPs actual condition.

Although we are all interested in a patient's subjective experiences, we are usually careful to reconcile that with our own impressions of the patient's situation.

In a virtual forum such as this one, this is simply not possible.

bth7 said:
People pipe right up to endlessly discuss their board scores or their annoying psyiology prof, but when someone comes around actually needing help everyone wants to have an intelectual debate about legal responsibility. It pisses me off. It really shows where your average med student mind is at - up their own ahole.
I hope that in the course of your studies on Mare Island, you'll be able to sustain your enthusiasm for helping others.
 

bth7

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Miklos said:
I hope that in the course of your studies on Mare Island, you'll be able to sustain your enthusiasm for helping others.
I hope so to. I think it is possible. If you keep things in perspective.
 

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I respect EVERY opinion, so please dont take this the wrong way, anyone.
The OP has already seeked out help from a PDoc, and has not yet found the right combination for him. There is an answer for all lifes problems out ther u just have to hang in there and seek it out. So although his post read "PDocs help me please" he is really looking for a differant form of help, which very well may in combination with other treatments help him a great deal. I feel most psychiatrists and any other physicians have no idea what their patients feel at all which is why they automatically look to just cover their a$# in most situitations. So i believe that the legal stuff in this situitation is a bunch of crap, and out of line at this time. However had i not hit rockey roads myself im not so sure my answer would have been exactly the same.

I hope the OP comes back on b/c i will be more then happy to give him the support he may truely need (and leave it up to him if he wants to sue me)


bth7 you lived in a monastery
how did that happen, must have been a very cool experiance, share a bit of it if you dont mind.....love to hear about it
 

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Hi folks,

I think Whopper was only trying to be helpful and to make us mindful of potential pitfalls in this situation, in this day of medical litigation. Of course, we all would like to be as helpful as we could be in every way, but the sad reality is that there are crazy lawsuits out there...I hear of a few a month that just seem to get more and more wild.

Today a medical student was soliciting advice from me about her boyfriend, who is having some difficulties. I was very willing to give answers to all the pharmacological and therapeutic questions she had. However, I'd by lying if I say I didn't have some sort of trepidation about the advice I had given, given that I had never seen the man in my life.

The reality is that litigation and lawsuits are a part of medical practice. A large portion of the tests and imaging I order each day are to cover my rear, and the attending's. Is this good medicine? Not really. Is it reality? Unfortunately yes, for the time being.
 

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Anasazi23 said:
Hi folks,

I think Whopper was only trying to be helpful and to make us mindful of potential pitfalls in this situation, in this day of medical litigation. Of course, we all would like to be as helpful as we could be in every way, but the sad reality is that there are crazy lawsuits out there...I hear of a few a month that just seem to get more and more wild.

Today a medical student was soliciting advice from me about her boyfriend, who is having some difficulties. I was very willing to give answers to all the pharmacological and therapeutic questions she had. However, I'd by lying if I say I didn't have some sort of trepidation about the advice I had given, given that I had never seen the man in my life.

The reality is that litigation and lawsuits are a part of medical practice. A large portion of the tests and imaging I order each day are to cover my rear, and the attending's. Is this good medicine? Not really. Is it reality? Unfortunately yes, for the time being.
excellent reply.....unfortinetly what you have stated about the legality part of medicine is very sad, and it is what we have to deal with. I assume from your post you are a practicing physician. Although i am not i do understand your view.........so i guess the best thing to do would be to proceed with slight caution
 

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Last month a radiologist told me about when he was sued for missing a small tumor in a woman's breast. The litigation went on for over 3 years. This same woman then sued another radiologist that DID eventually find the small tumor on mammogram because she felt too much tissue had been taken in biopsy, and that this was the radiologist's fault for suggesting the extensive biopsy, which turned out to be largely benign.

Not psychiatry, I know...but still makes you think.

That radiologist now no longer reads mammograms at all.
 

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well now that we have exhausted the legal side of this topic.......
im hoping that the OP sign's on soon so we can continue to lend him the needed support
 
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MD2b20004

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I didnt mean this to turn into a medicine/law discussion, i was just merely stating my case and was wondering since some of you may went thru the same symptoms i wanted a different prospectives and see what worked for each individual in their cases, and since this is a pysc residency forum i also thought there may be some residents, or chief residents who can give me advice or prospectives, and rest assure, i WONT sue anyone... so please keep the advice and experiences coming, drop the law part for a bit because like i said no sueing going on here, just a ex med student in horrible medical condition as seen in my previous posts in this forum that checking out different prospectives , advice, experiences, etc...
 

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MD2b20004 said:
I didnt mean this to turn into a medicine/law discussion, i was just merely stating my case and was wondering since some of you may went thru the same symptoms i wanted a different prospectives and see what worked for each individual in their cases, and since this is a pysc residency forum i also thought there may be some residents, or chief residents who can give me advice or prospectives, and rest assure, i WONT sue anyone... so please keep the advice and experiences coming, drop the law part for a bit because like i said no sueing going on here, just a ex med student in horrible medical condition as seen in my previous posts in this forum that checking out different prospectives , advice, experiences, etc...
hey buddie

you have to be strong and precistant....keep trying differant meds, find a psychologist who you get along with. its a long process, and i have not yet found my answer but you need to keep searching. Drugs will not cure you by any means but they will help you fight and learn to accept this problem. A similar problem has kept me from going to med school, i am currently in a MSc program, to give myself time.
Hang in there my friend
never give up
and keep talking to us
 
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scienceguy said:
hey buddie

you have to be strong and precistant....keep trying differant meds, find a psychologist who you get along with. its a long process, and i have not yet found my answer but you need to keep searching. Drugs will not cure you by any means but they will help you fight and learn to accept this problem. A similar problem has kept me from going to med school, i am currently in a MSc program, to give myself time.
Hang in there my friend
never give up
and keep talking to us

Thanks for the inspiration but i get too scared to keep changing docs and change meds cause it takes these meds weeks if not months to kick into effect so if i keep changing docs, meds, etc... it will take years to get over my problem, i rather stick to one doc and give the meds he gives me and keep trying them as long as possible so i wont have to go all over again and go thru the whole cycle of new drug, and all the anxiety of what the heck the new drug is going do or if its going to work or if its just going to waste more of my life time, etc... its so stressful no wonder my anxiety and panic attacks keep getting worse
 

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MD2b20004 said:
Thanks for the inspiration but i get too scared to keep changing docs and change meds cause it takes these meds weeks if not months to kick into effect so if i keep changing docs, meds, etc... it will take years to get over my problem, i rather stick to one doc and give the meds he gives me and keep trying them as long as possible so i wont have to go all over again and go thru the whole cycle of new drug, and all the anxiety of what the heck the new drug is going do or if its going to work or if its just going to waste more of my life time, etc... its so stressful no wonder my anxiety and panic attacks keep getting worse
Eventually when you get this under control, even if it takes a long time, if its still what you want to do I would strongly incourage you to go back to medical school.....its so unfortinate that most doctors have no idea what its like to have suffered. I feel there need to be more people who have experianced things like this to persue medicine. The PDoc i was going to was an A##hole. he told me well if the medicine did not fix the problem its all in your head. I since met a 79 year old psychiatrist who is a fellow student of mine in the MSc program which i am enrolled. His wife just passed away and he needs to keep him mind occupied. We became very close and shared experiances. He explained to me how he has battled depression and anxiety since his early teen years. The man is so understanding and caring which can make a huge impact on a patients out come, he has helped me tremendously. He has been a successful Physician, had a successful marrage, owned a nice house, had children and had all the things every other doctor had, sure he suffered at times but it made him a much better physician........

take your time
muscle through the bad
things will work