Help me understand.

Started by Daggum
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Daggum

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I am a little confused about incentive spirometry and how it helps with PNA. I know you are supposed to encourage a patient to use his/her IS 10q1hr or w/e but how does it work? I know the IS helps prevent atelectasis but how does that prevent PNA? The only thing that I can think of is that there is decreased blood to areas where there is under-ventilation so there is less wbcs, etc to the area which can lead to infection?

Please RTs or RNs help me understand this. and whats the best way to explain this to a patient to encourage them to use their IS.
 
I actually have another stupid quesiton: how does a right-sided lying position help prevent aspiration in pts with ng tubes? I know if the pt cant tolerate the sitting position or if its contraindicated, you are supposed to put them in a right-sided lying position but why? I know it prevents aspiration but how? I know it has to do with the stomach, but it doesn't make sense to me.
 
I am a little confused about incentive spirometry and how it helps with PNA. I know you are supposed to encourage a patient to use his/her IS 10q1hr or w/e but how does it work? I know the IS helps prevent atelectasis but how does that prevent PNA? The only thing that I can think of is that there is decreased blood to areas where there is under-ventilation so there is less wbcs, etc to the area which can lead to infection?

Please RTs or RNs help me understand this. and whats the best way to explain this to a patient to encourage them to use their IS.

All the IS does is help a patient visualize how to take slow deep breaths that improve ventilation (air-filling) of their alveoli. Where this matters most is the dependent alveoli (the lower back lung fields (bases) of your typical patient).

Although perfusion (blood flow) is better in these lung fields than at the apex, the alveoli there are more vulnerable to the effects poor ventilation and infiltrative/transudative/exudative fluids in the alveoli (i.e. pulm edema, pneumonia) or around the lung (pleural effusion).

These fluid-filled and/or collapsed alveoli are not only unavailable for gas exchange, but fluid/secretions in these regions are stagnant and become a favorable environment for bacteria.

I actually have another stupid quesiton: how does a right-sided lying position help prevent aspiration in pts with ng tubes? I know if the pt cant tolerate the sitting position or if its contraindicated, you are supposed to put them in a right-sided lying position but why? I know it prevents aspiration but how? I know it has to do with the stomach, but it doesn't make sense to me.

I have never heard of that- do you have a reference that you can cite? I have no idea how a R-sided lying position could help prevent aspiration- that does not sound correct to me. All the literature I have read supports maintaining the head of the bed at least 30 degrees.

Here is a link to a reference that might help you:
http://www.aacn.org/wd/practice/con...tion-practice-alert.pcms?pid=1&&menu=practice
 
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Thanks so much! I don't have a link or anything, but in my skills book and my skills instructors, always talks about putting the patient on the right side if they can't sit in a semi-fowers or fowers position because it helps promote stomach emptying or something.

I am still alittle confused about the IS..I mean I kinda get what you are saying, but maybe I just need to read more pathio on PNA because I don't understand how atelectasis leads to PNA; my pathio/med-surg book doesn't really go into detail on it...it just says that atelectasis can lead to PNA.
 
Thanks so much! I don't have a link or anything, but in my skills book and my skills instructors, always talks about putting the patient on the right side if they can't sit in a semi-fowers or fowers position because it helps promote stomach emptying or something.

I think their reasoning for this is actually that if you have a patient with an NG tube they may vomit, and keeping them on their side will make them less likely to aspirate the vomitus (like you'd do with a drunk friend...).
 
Thanks so much! I don't have a link or anything, but in my skills book and my skills instructors, always talks about putting the patient on the right side if they can't sit in a semi-fowers or fowers position because it helps promote stomach emptying or something.

I am still alittle confused about the IS..I mean I kinda get what you are saying, but maybe I just need to read more pathio on PNA because I don't understand how atelectasis leads to PNA; my pathio/med-surg book doesn't really go into detail on it...it just says that atelectasis can lead to PNA.

These fluid-filled and/or collapsed alveoli are not only unavailable for gas exchange, but fluid/secretions in these regions are stagnant and become a favorable environment for bacteria.

This is the best explanation I've got. Secretions and fluids don't circulate well in poorly ventilated sections of lung. Anwhere there is stasis of fluids, be it lung or urinary tract, you lose that mechanical flushing mechnism that helps to prevent bacteria from forming a stronghold.

I think their reasoning for this is actually that if you have a patient with an NG tube they may vomit, and keeping them on their side will make them less likely to aspirate the vomitus (like you'd do with a drunk friend...).

Lol, drunk friend. That line of reasoning crossed my mind, BUT, here's the thing, if your patient is actively vomiting, then it is appropriate to turn the patient to the lateral position (doesn't matter which) to facilitate the removal of vomitus from the oral cavity. Being johnny on the spot with the Yankauer helps. In this situation, I still would not lower the head of the bed any further than needed to get this person onto their side. The next step (or if someone can give you a hand) is to disconnect the tube feeding and hook it up to suction. Tube feeding shouldn't be resumed until cause of vomiting is identified and corrected.

If a patient only has an NG tube and for whatever reason, must be flat, it isn't appropriate to give TF via the NG, even if they are on their side because that person is at high risk for reflux and aspiration (gross and micro). If that person is expected to require such position limitations for a prolonged time, TF should be held until there is a relatively safer route (percutaneous J-tube for ex). We also put the bed in rev T-burg if appropriate.

One real life example that I can offer is a patient we had in the Rotorest bed for weeks. We used a combination of TPN, enteral feeding through the J-tube and LWS via NGT.


Doing some quickie internet googling, I tried to find some evidence that gastric emptying was more rapid on the right side. I found this. It's pretty old, though. Most of the other stuff had to do with babies and reflux. Maybe someone else has some better references.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1282856/pdf/jphysiol00723-0397.pdf
 
The next step (or if someone can give you a hand) is to disconnect the tube feeding and hook it up to suction. Tube feeding shouldn't be resumed until cause of vomiting is identified and corrected.

I think it's funny that tube feeding hadn't even crossed my mind as a reason for an ng tube and I thought solely of gi decompression. Shows what surgery does to you.
 
I tried to find some evidence that gastric emptying was more rapid on the right side. I found this. It's pretty old, though. Most of the other stuff had to do with babies and reflux. Maybe someone else has some better references.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1282856/pdf/jphysiol00723-0397.pdf

No references, but lying on the right side puts the pyloris/duodenum in a gravity-dependent position, which likely aids in gastric emptying.

If you have GERD, however, it seems that lying on the left side offers relief. Nothing to do with aspiration, in that case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/26/health/26really.html?_r=1
 
The Rigth Path and everyone else your guys are awesome! Yeah, I re-read your explanation and I get it now lol...I probally have some kind of reading comprehension problem because you explained ir very clearly earlier. Thank you everyone who posted references because I started looking up stuff like how calcium carb helps with hyperkalemia and the good lung down thing for patients with unilateral pna lol.

One last thing, if you anyone can help, for foleys caths, is there a certain area you are supposed to tape it to for males? I know for females, you are supposed to tape it to the inner thigh with that holder thing but for males, are you supposed to tape it pointing towards the umbilicus or thigh? Sorry for these stupid questions but I haven't really been able to practice some of these skills in clinicals yet so I ask because I feel like I forget things since when I don't acutally do them.
 
No references, but lying on the right side puts the pyloris/duodenum in a gravity-dependent position, which likely aids in gastric emptying.

If you have GERD, however, it seems that lying on the left side works better.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/26/health/26really.html?_r=1

Right. That's a good point. I did find anecdotal examples of L side, head of bed raised/propped on pillows relieving GERD in my internet googling.

Then there's the question of which factor is more significant in aspiration- gastric volume or reflux, or are those two factors related? I found a link to one study that investigated the relationship between these two factors.

http://www.aacn.org/WD/CETests/Media/A0817062.pdf

There is also the issue of a patient receiving continuous TF isn't going to be left in one position all the time. But for those that receive bolus feedings, maybe there is some benefit to turning the patient to one side or the other in addition to HOB elevation.

Also, if you have a patient on cont. TF that has a high residual, would positioning have any significant impact on increasing stomach emptying? And would that have any significant impact on the rate of aspiration pneumonia? I imagine someone out there has or is investigating that kind of stuff.
 
The Rigth Path and everyone else your guys are awesome! Yeah, I re-read your explanation and I get it now lol...I probally have some kind of reading comprehension problem because you explained ir very clearly earlier. Thank you everyone who posted references because I started looking up stuff like how calcium carb helps with hyperkalemia and the good lung down thing for patients with unilateral pna lol.

One last thing, if you anyone can help, for foleys caths, is there a certain area you are supposed to tape it to for males? I know for females, you are supposed to tape it to the inner thigh with that holder thing but for males, are you supposed to tape it pointing towards the umbilicus or thigh? Sorry for these stupid questions but I haven't really been able to practice some of these skills in clinicals yet so I ask because I feel like I forget things since when I don't acutally do them.

The only stupid question is the one that doesn't get asked, right? Well most of the time.

I was going to make some jokes about hard-ons and whatnot, but nevermind. You still secure the foley tubing to the thigh in males. I pick a spot that isn't going to dig into the other thigh of the hefty patients and also high enough up on the thigh so that the tubing has enough slack for the patient to abduct their thigh without yanking the tube. A lot of things come together when you get to put theory to practice.
 
The only stupid question is the one that doesn't get asked, right? Well most of the time.

I was going to make some jokes about hard-ons and whatnot, but nevermind. You still secure the foley tubing to the thigh in males. I pick a spot that isn't going to dig into the other thigh of the hefty patients and also high enough up on the thigh so that the tubing has enough slack for the patient to abduct their thigh without yanking the tube. A lot of things come together when you get to put theory to practice.

Thank you!