Help.Used to always get high score in undergrad....struggling to get class avg.

[bertstare]

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Hi all, new to SDN.

Anyways, in undergrad I was that annoying kid who always got high score. Yeah I studied a lot, but stuff just came easy.

Welcome to med school...the test are like all rote memorization and I'm getting my ass kicked studying like i used to...meanwhile it seems everyone around me effortlessly gets 90's.

I feel too stupid to be here sometimes...kind of a shock after never getting a B in undergrad....

Any tips to help me adjust? Thanks 🙁

 

[Rollo]

You need to tell us more about your study habits.

 

[bertstare]

You need to tell us more about your study habits.

Ok- sure thing.

Basically my day goes like this...

Wake up around 8am, class at 9am.
Class from 9am-3pm....then I go workout and do stuff til 6.

I TRY to study from 6 to midnight....but I find that I get distracted with the internet, football games, anything. My "studying" is often a combination of reading while on the computer...so facebook or some crap might distract me. Its not focussed studying.....so my actual pure study time is 1-2 hours a day.

In undergrad I studied like 1 hour a day...but with the massive amount of info thats pure memory (and requires 0 cognitive skills) I need to spend more time.

I'm just frustrated at the amount of memorizing in med school and lack of critical thinking/cognition....seems like its just a contest of who studies more..probably is.

 

[bertstare]

Pretty much depressed and have no confidence....

 

[Telencephalon]

There is a lot of critical thinking in medical school

Just not in first year or largely second year. Which makes sense.

What are you going to think critically about if you don't know basic anatomy, physiology, pathophysiology and how they affect clinical presentations? Once you get some of those basics down then you use those tools to think critically about your patients, using their chief complaints and symptoms to form a hypothesis or differential and then testing it with history, physical, laboratory and imaging studies.

Right now don't get caught in the trap of thinking you are bad at memorization its counterproductive. Just work hard, learn everything you possibly can, set up a base of knowledge that you can draw on to think about what the body does in disease.

Hang in there

 

[bertstare]

There is a lot of critical thinking in medical school

Just not in first year or largely second year. Which makes sense.

What are you going to think critically about if you don't know basic anatomy, physiology, pathophysiology and how they affect clinical presentations? Once you get some of those basics down then you use those tools to think critically about your patients, using their chief complaints and symptoms to form a hypothesis or differential and then testing it with history, physical, laboratory and imaging studies.

Right now don't get caught in the trap of thinking you are bad at memorization its counterproductive. Just work hard, learn everything you possibly can, set up a base of knowledge that you can draw on to think about what the body does in disease.

Hang in there

It is probably a matter of being strict with my schedule and just busting my ass...

I need to wake up and realize this is med school...not the joke that was undergrad

 

[Frank Nutter]

Ok- sure thing.

Basically my day goes like this...

Wake up around 8am, class at 9am.
Class from 9am-3pm....then I go workout and do stuff til 6.

I TRY to study from 6 to midnight....but I find that I get distracted with the internet, football games, anything. My "studying" is often a combination of reading while on the computer...so facebook or some crap might distract me. Its not focussed studying.....so my actual pure study time is 1-2 hours a day.

In undergrad I studied like 1 hour a day...but with the massive amount of info thats pure memory (and requires 0 cognitive skills) I need to spend more time.

I'm just frustrated at the amount of memorizing in med school and lack of critical thinking/cognition....seems like its just a contest of who studies more..probably is.

you are spending your most productive hours in sitting in class

 

[clifftacopter]

I never had trouble in college, so I never learned how to study. We've had about 5-6 tests so far, and I've really gotten into the groove of things. For me, it's all about efficiency. I started out scoring about average, putting in about as many hours as you put in per day (slightly less, but probably slightly more focused). Over time, I got a feel for what was important and what was not so important as I was studying, and this allowed me to DRASTICALLY reduce the amount of time I spent studying. I now study 1-2 hours a day and not at all on Fridays or Saturdays (unless there is a test that Monday) and am doing quite well. You need to learn how to efficiently study. Unfortunately, it's not really something easily taught... you just have to figure it out for yourself.

Also, it would help tremendously if you separated yourself from TV and your computer when you studied. This was one of my problems, too. Now, I stay at school an extra hour or two to study without distraction before I go home.

Unlike previous posters, I would actually recommend continuing to go to class. I know a lot of people don't... but for me, it provides structure to my day, which is really important. It's also a very useful tool IF you first learn the material before the lecture (not that in depth, but get the general idea). Class is not particularly useful otherwise (at least in my experience).

 

[UAAWolf]

you are spending your most productive hours in sitting in class

We automatically fail if we skip 3 classes (serious)

 

[UAAWolf]

I never had trouble in college, so I never learned how to study. We've had about 5-6 tests so far, and I've really gotten into the groove of things. For me, it's all about efficiency. I started out scoring about average, putting in about as many hours as you put in per day (slightly less, but probably slightly more focused). Over time, I got a feel for what was important and what was not so important as I was studying, and this allowed me to DRASTICALLY reduce the amount of time I spent studying. I now study 1-2 hours a day and not at all on Fridays or Saturdays (unless there is a test that Monday) and am doing quite well. You need to learn how to efficiently study. Unfortunately, it's not really something easily taught... you just have to figure it out for yourself.

Also, it would help tremendously if you separated yourself from TV and your computer when you studied. This was one of my problems, too. Now, I stay at school an extra hour or two to study without distraction before I go home.

Unlike previous posters, I would actually recommend continuing to go to class. I know a lot of people don't... but for me, it provides structure to my day, which is really important. It's also a very useful tool IF you first learn the material before the lecture (not that in depth, but get the general idea). Class is not particularly useful otherwise (at least in my experience).

I need to stop procrastinating. Yeah I got 80 on this anatomy test but I crammed in 1 day....learning the entire abdomen in 1 night is not realistic

I realize my habits are sloppy and stupid and I'm willing to change....To OP...just get in the library and grind it out

 

[Rollo]

Ok- sure thing.

Basically my day goes like this...

Wake up around 8am, class at 9am.
Class from 9am-3pm....then I go workout and do stuff til 6.

I TRY to study from 6 to midnight....but I find that I get distracted with the internet, football games, anything. My "studying" is often a combination of reading while on the computer...so facebook or some crap might distract me. Its not focussed studying.....so my actual pure study time is 1-2 hours a day.

In undergrad I studied like 1 hour a day...but with the massive amount of info thats pure memory (and requires 0 cognitive skills) I need to spend more time.

I'm just frustrated at the amount of memorizing in med school and lack of critical thinking/cognition....seems like its just a contest of who studies more..probably is.

If your school does NOT have a mandatory attendance policy, then STOP going to class now.

Seriously.

As somebody above me said, you're wasting the most productive hours of your day sitting in a classroom.

Think for a minute how much you can accomplish (i.e. memorize) in 6 hours of focused studying in a quiet area by yourself. Obviously, you're not going to sit there for 6 hours straight and study. You get my point though.

I always say that "treat medical school like a job...you clock in, get your work done, and clock out for the day".

No distractions! Go to the library and find an isolated corner if you need to, but NO DISTRACTIONS in the period of the day you're supposed to study (i.e. 9-3).

Try it.

 

[FrickenhugeMD]

We automatically fail if we skip 3 classes (serious)

This sounds miserable

Class = biggest waste of time

 

[ar2388]

OP i feel the exact same way as you.. ive learned that its ok to barely make the class averages sometimes..... i was never too good at memorizing and the volume of material is overwhelming... but i think about it as taking the top 5-10% of people in undergrad and putting them all into class together. there is no way to stay on top when you are surrounding by top people already unless you really bust your a** studying and sometimes i am just not willing to bust my a** that hard...

 

[hot sauce]

If your school does NOT have a mandatory attendance policy, then STOP going to class now.

Seriously.

As somebody above me said, you're wasting the most productive hours of your day sitting in a classroom.

Think for a minute how much you can accomplish (i.e. memorize) in 6 hours of focused studying in a quiet area by yourself. Obviously, you're not going to sit there for 6 hours straight and study. You get my point though.

I always say that "treat medical school like a job...you clock in, get your work done, and clock out for the day".

No distractions! Go to the library and find an isolated corner if you need to, but NO DISTRACTIONS in the period of the day you're supposed to study (i.e. 9-3).

Try it.

I would say you need to figure out what works best for you. For me going to most of my classes was a good way for me to learn the material but I know others get very little out of class. If you find you aren't learning from the classes then try studying on your own. Also consider picking and choosing what classes to attend some lectures are great and help a lot others are a complete waste of time.

Remember everyone in medical school got good grades in undergrad even the "average medical students" so don't beat yourself up.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

OP i feel the exact same way as you.. ive learned that its ok to barely make the class averages sometimes..... i was never too good at memorizing and the volume of material is overwhelming... but i think about it as taking the top 5-10% of people in undergrad and putting them all into class together. there is no way to stay on top when you are surrounding by top people already unless you really bust your a** studying and sometimes i am just not willing to bust my a** that hard...

I've noticed that many of the top exam scorers spend hour upon hours memorizing the lecturers' favorite facts just to get a few extra points. I don't think it's worth those extra hours to get to the tip top of the sigmoidal curve.

 

[Frank Nutter]

We automatically fail if we skip 3 classes (serious)

That is draconian and ******ed.

i'd study during lecture with music using these:

 

[gravitywave]

We automatically fail if we skip 3 classes (serious)

how? do they do roll call at the start of each lecture?

 

[Jay Leno]

Ok- sure thing.

Basically my day goes like this...

Wake up around 8am, class at 9am.
Class from 9am-3pm....then I go workout and do stuff til 6.

I TRY to study from 6 to midnight....but I find that I get distracted with the internet, football games, anything. My "studying" is often a combination of reading while on the computer...so facebook or some crap might distract me. Its not focussed studying.....so my actual pure study time is 1-2 hours a day.

In undergrad I studied like 1 hour a day...but with the massive amount of info thats pure memory (and requires 0 cognitive skills) I need to spend more time.

I'm just frustrated at the amount of memorizing in med school and lack of critical thinking/cognition....seems like its just a contest of who studies more..probably is.

Well there's your problem right there. You're speding an hour or so commuting to school, six hours in lectures, during which time you may or may not be learning, and then you spending 3 hours doing nothing really relevant (not that I have anything against excercising but spending 3 hours working out seems excessive). That's a total of 10 hours gone right there. And to top it off, it doesn't seem like you're very efficient with your studying habits (i.e. using facebook or surfing the internet). Honestly, unless you have mandatory attendance or plan on competing in the Olympiad, I would stay at home and podcast some of the lectures and cut back on the amount of excercise time. If you did that and used that 10 hours studying productively, you won't even have to study after 6 pm and you can use all that time to surf the internet and facebook as much as you want.

 

[RedSHIFT]

med school is 100 percent informational recall. idiot savants rule the day....until year 3 and 4.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Agree with previous posters. I was the person that ALWAYS went to class during first and second year. In retrospect, it was a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME. You are better off studying somewhere else, reading, doing practice exams, relaxing, working out, staying healthy. If you are forced to go to some classes, then go if you must. But if I had to do it all over again, I would NEVER go to class unless held at gunpoint.

 

[aggie08]

Ok- sure thing.

Basically my day goes like this...

Wake up around 8am, class at 9am.
Class from 9am-3pm....then I go workout and do stuff til 6.

I TRY to study from 6 to midnight....but I find that I get distracted with the internet, football games, anything. My "studying" is often a combination of reading while on the computer...so facebook or some crap might distract me. Its not focussed studying.....so my actual pure study time is 1-2 hours a day.

In undergrad I studied like 1 hour a day...but with the massive amount of info thats pure memory (and requires 0 cognitive skills) I need to spend more time.

I'm just frustrated at the amount of memorizing in med school and lack of critical thinking/cognition....seems like its just a contest of who studies more..probably is.

You're studying very, very little. Now, to re-emphasize what others have said, you need to figure out if class time is productive for you or not. If class is not mandatory and you are not getting anything out of it then stop going.

Go to school when class is supposed to start and sit in the library while everyone is in class. Study. If internet is what's distracting you then don't connect to it. There's got to be a little bit of self-discipline if you want to do well.

Try to get through the lectures ~3 times before an exam. Only use your book if you are a total book learner or you don't understand something. Reading can be a huge time-consumer and if you're only doing it because you feel like you're "supposed to" then it's not worth it. If you learn by reading that is the only way it's worth the time required.

You gotta give a little to get your returns.

Good luck and don't get discouraged. Find your study style (I think this is the most important part of med school's first 2 years) and go with it.

 

[da8s0859q]

You're studying very, very little. Now, to re-emphasize what others have said, you need to figure out if class time is productive for you or not. If class is not mandatory and you are not getting anything out of it then stop going.

Go to school when class is supposed to start and sit in the library while everyone is in class. Study. If internet is what's distracting you then don't connect to it. There's got to be a little bit of self-discipline if you want to do well.

Try to get through the lectures ~3 times before an exam. Only use your book if you are a total book learner or you don't understand something. Reading can be a huge time-consumer and if you're only doing it because you feel like you're "supposed to" then it's not worth it. If you learn by reading that is the only way it's worth the time required.

You gotta give a little to get your returns.

Good luck and don't get discouraged. Find your study style (I think this is the most important part of med school's first 2 years) and go with it.

OP, this is basically it -- might as well end the thread here. If class is worth it, go. If it's not, don't go. Make sure you're connecting the dots when you study as opposed to just blankly reading a bunch of words.

In college, I went to class because it helped a lot as far as providing what I absolutely needed to know for tests and minimizing study time afterward.. In med school, where you are given the material you are expected to know for exams and beyond, it's just not worth it anymore for a lot of people.

Oh, and if your exams are 99.9% off of class notes like most med schools, don't feel bad -- like you're going to miss something -- when skipping class. For the last two months of M1 (and more and more these days), I didn't watch or listen to the recordings for the lectures I didn't attend. My final exam scores of M1 were the highest I had to that point, and I had more time in the day to do whatever than I would have if I went to sit through two hours of a pharmacology lecture, THEN sat down to try and make sense of it.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Hi all, new to SDN.

Anyways, in undergrad I was that annoying kid who always got high score. Yeah I studied a lot, but stuff just came easy.

Welcome to med school...the test are like all rote memorization and I'm getting my ass kicked studying like i used to...meanwhile it seems everyone around me effortlessly gets 90's.

I feel too stupid to be here sometimes...kind of a shock after never getting a B in undergrad....

Any tips to help me adjust? Thanks 🙁

What school do you go to? You have to think in order to do well to pass exams at my school. Memorization alone will not help you.

 

[medstudent87]

med school is 100 percent informational recall. idiot savants rule the day....until year 3 and 4.

that's good to hear 👍

 

[Rollo]

med school is 100 percent informational recall. idiot savants rule the day....until year 3 and 4.

So you won't be recalling information during clinical years?

 

[LifetimeDoc]

So you won't be recalling information during clinical years?

At least at my school, NBME exams rule your grade in 3rd year though if you suck at the clinical part of the rotation that can keep you from getting honors. Idiot savants still rule the 3rd year as long as they get by in the clinic. If you aren't doing well in 2nd year, you equally won't be doing well in 3rd year because of the exams, with the additional insult of having less time to study.

 

[2012mdc]

At least at my school, NBME exams rule your grade in 3rd year though if you suck at the clinical part of the rotation that can keep you from getting honors. Idiot savants still rule the 3rd year as long as they get by in the clinic. If you aren't doing well in 2nd year, you equally won't be doing well in 3rd year because of the exams, with the additional insult of having less time to study.

Same situation at my school. My friend missed an A on the IM shelf by 2 points so he won't get an A even though he had A's on every part of the rotation.

I will say there is less recall 3rd year - random diseases aren't tested as much - but there still is a good amount and on rounds the questions aren't multiple choice

 

[Mace1370]

In order to combat this obvious bit of disappointment, I have taken proactive measures: I have stopped taking my phone to class, I am taking notes on paper instead of computer so I don't surf during lecture, and I study from extra aids like BRS and Golijan's. But this does not address the root of my problem: I do not want to study all the time, but I want the grades of the people who study all the time.

Thanks for reading my rant.

Sadly, we cannot have our cake and eat it to 🙁

I look at it this way, 4 years of pain now for a better career for the rest of my life.

 

[Laryngophed]

Sadly, we cannot have our cake and eat it to 🙁

I look at it this way, 4 years of pain now for a better career for the rest of my life.

This will probably sound melodramatic and unnecessary to some of you, but it gets me through the day. I try to remind myself that no matter how menial or awful it may seem to study for another hour or two, a better understanding of this basic science will help me better understand the pathophys. will help me better understand the rationale for treatment or the presentation and will (ideally) help me to better serve my patients and make me a better doctor. I dunno, it gets me through the day.

 

[Untraditional]

I'm not sure I get that last poster's rant. Are you like me, studying all the time and dumbfounded by how easy it seems to be for everyone else to miss only one or two on exams? I am going nuts trying to keep up.

I do think I'm going to stop going to classes. I find when I'm reviewing that I don't remember anything the profs are saying anyway.

I want to get good grades too but have no idea why I'm not. I'm one of those "1% below the mean on every test" kinds of guys and it makes me sick. I have no interest in doing rural family medicine (no offense to anyone who does).

 

[fahimaz7]

You're studying very, very little. Now, to re-emphasize what others have said, you need to figure out if class time is productive for you or not. If class is not mandatory and you are not getting anything out of it then stop going.

Go to school when class is supposed to start and sit in the library while everyone is in class. Study. If internet is what's distracting you then don't connect to it. There's got to be a little bit of self-discipline if you want to do well.

Try to get through the lectures ~3 times before an exam. Only use your book if you are a total book learner or you don't understand something. Reading can be a huge time-consumer and if you're only doing it because you feel like you're "supposed to" then it's not worth it. If you learn by reading that is the only way it's worth the time required.

You gotta give a little to get your returns.

Good luck and don't get discouraged. Find your study style (I think this is the most important part of med school's first 2 years) and go with it.

You mean I can't make A's in medical school if I don't study? What a novel idea.

Seriously MS1's, the days of slacking and cramming are over. Get on the ball, quit multi-tasking while studying (internet, radio, tv, cooking, whatever), and start focusing at the task at hand.

You waste 3 hours a day between class and when you get home? Perhaps you should study from 3-6, go for a quick run, grab some food, and get back to studying by 7:30.

 

[ArthurIhde]

i need more details

 

[UAAWolf]

Agree with previous posters. I was the person that ALWAYS went to class during first and second year. In retrospect, it was a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME. You are better off studying somewhere else, reading, doing practice exams, relaxing, working out, staying healthy. If you are forced to go to some classes, then go if you must. But if I had to do it all over again, I would NEVER go to class unless held at gunpoint.

People in my class act like missing class is a sin. So stupid...

 

[da8s0859q]

People in my class act like missing class is a sin. So stupid...

What do they say?

 

[ar2388]

The students who sit in the top 25% study all the time. If they do not understand a concept as it is being taught, the whole lecture comes to a stand-still until they understand. The top 25-50% study every other day, so they are knowledgable. The bottom 50-75% study once or twice a week, and the bottom 25% don't study until the exam.

I am in the bottom 50-75% as I always score 1 or 2 questions less than the mean. I do not study everyday because I have gestalt view in learning. Things make more sense when I know the bigger picture, and concepts are continuously reinforced over lectures.

But by being in the bottom 50-75%, I am increasingly becoming frustrated knowing that I will be lucky to get a 230+, while knowing that I need a 240/250+ step1 and great grades during wards in order to match into radiology or radiation oncology.

In order to combat this obvious bit of disappointment, I have taken proactive measures: I have stopped taking my phone to class, I am taking notes on paper instead of computer so I don't surf during lecture, and I study from extra aids like BRS and Golijan's. But this does not address the root of my problem: I do not want to study all the time, but I want the grades of the people who study all the time.

I am passing all my exams by being 1-2% above or below the class average, but I want to get into a speciality that I am the most passionate about.

Thanks for reading my rant.

dude, you just described me a to t......

 

[ArcGurren]

This used to be a problem for me in first year. My main advice

1. GET RID OF DISTRACTIONS. Get away from the computer if you don't absolutely need it, leave your phone off, get away from the TV etc

2. Study smart, not just hard. Look at the most tested facts and try to memorize those first THEN move on to the minutiae and still be smart about those... don't memorize blindly it never works unless you study from sunup to sundown.

3. Practice questions, practice questions, practice questions

4. What helped for me is if i'm making lists of drugs or diseases, i would literally make lists of my lists, and further more condensed lists until i find the points which are absolutely essential. Sure it eats up paper and kills trees but that's how you gotta do it.

 

[2012mdc]

The students who sit in the top 25% study all the time. If they do not understand a concept as it is being taught, the whole lecture comes to a stand-still until they understand. The top 25-50% study every other day, so they are knowledgable. The bottom 50-75% study once or twice a week, and the bottom 25% don't study until the exam.

I am in the bottom 50-75% as I always score 1 or 2 questions less than the mean. I do not study everyday because I have gestalt view in learning. Things make more sense when I know the bigger picture, and concepts are continuously reinforced over lectures.

But by being in the bottom 50-75%, I am increasingly becoming frustrated knowing that I will be lucky to get a 230+, while knowing that I need a 240/250+ step1 and great grades during wards in order to match into radiology or radiation oncology.

In order to combat this obvious bit of disappointment, I have taken proactive measures: I have stopped taking my phone to class, I am taking notes on paper instead of computer so I don't surf during lecture, and I study from extra aids like BRS and Golijan's. But this does not address the root of my problem: I do not want to study all the time, but I want the grades of the people who study all the time.

I am passing all my exams by being 1-2% above or below the class average, but I want to get into a speciality that I am the most passionate about.

Thanks for reading my rant.

Not necessarily true. I can't speak for everyone in the top 25% but I can speak for myself. Because I do not want to burn out and go crazy I take my time off when I need it. 1st year I could get away with a week, 2nd and 3rd year a few days. Studied hard but not even close to all the time. The way I look at it it's much more efficient to go hard when you are focused and engaged and realize the days you don't have that focus to enjoy life so med school doesn't drive you insane. Figure out the best way to maximize your time and study smarter.

Don't like to ask questions during class - ask my classmates for simple stuff I may have missed/forgotten, try to figure out medium difficulty stuff on my own, and ask the profs outside of class for the really hard stuff.