Help with neuropsychology track - intl. applicant!

[CaptainCognition]

Hi all, I'm a European aspiring clinical neuropsychologist. I graduated almost ten years back in psychology and then got a master's in neuropsychology. I've been working in psychology but haven't done clinical training yet. Over the past few weeks I've sent out lots of emails to US universities with little progress. I guess where the forum beats emails is in receiving broad advice.
Can anyone please clarify if there are any clinical neuropsychology programs? It seems to be a clinical psychology program followed by a specialisation in neuropsychology.

Any ideas on how to fund it? I wouldn't be eligible for a federal loan I'm sure so would need a university stipend or scholarship maybe?

Does anyone know of any examples of other international applicants that have done it?

and lastly (sorry!), does anyone know of any suitable courses still taking applications for Fall '18 start?

I would like to end up doing specialist assessments - I'd be content with that.

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[deleted343839]

You are correct - neuropsychology is a specialty within clinical psychology. You get a doctorate in clinical psychology, not neuropsychology. Some doctoral programs emphasize or offer more training opportunities in neuropsychology, but specialty training is completed during an internship and postdoctoral fellowship. Without this more specialized training (following generalist training), you cannot become a neuropsychologist. For more information, visit: TrainingPrograms - SCN Division 40

I went to graduate school with several international students. My understanding was that they were all able to take advantage of the fully funded tuition model and receive stipends for TA/RA positions. There may have been some additional fees associated with being an international student, but I think these were relatively modest. I don't think the funding issue should hold you back from applying to these programs if you are otherwise qualified.

You will need to look carefully at the program materials (usually readily found on the program's web site) for each program's application requirements, due dates, and so forth. In general, do not email the programs or ask for help if the information you're seeking is already available on the web site. If you haven't taken the GRE yet, that would be one barrier to completing an application as this is required by all reputable programs. Most programs also require demonstration/examination of English language proficiency for international applicants. It's probably too late to start the process for fall 2018 unless you have prepared more than you're letting on. Many deadlines have already passed.

 

[deleted343839]

One other thing -- you should train in the US if your intent is to work/practice within the US or Canada after licensure. Otherwise it makes little sense to get an American degree.

 

[CaptainCognition]

Thank you so much for your reply MamaPhD and encouragement. I guess my dream is to study and work in an area like California or Florida, somewhere nice and warm! That's where I'd like to settle. But I'm in my early 40s now and eager to make something happen out of all this psychology work so considering all options.
I've pushed for clinical psychology here in the UK for years which has been really difficult, I've come close but not there yet. The thing is, I'm more suited to neuropsychology than psychology for example I enjoy assessment, not so much therapy. I know it's not as simple as that but definitely more interested in the investigative aspect
Argosy seem really friendly and are suggesting I can get scholarship funding to cover tuition and living expenses, but I see they are a 'pay your way' style univ. which probably isn't a good thing - but would it be enough to secure employment afterwards?
Any idea what the stipend might be on a PsyD compared to a PhD? Actually beginning to consider a PhD in cognitive neuropsychology now etc. Maybe it's a pipe dream. I picture myself becoming an expert in my field and having great quality of life helping students and hitting the beach all the time! Any idea how much time I'd have to try to get other work?

 

[deleted343839]

You don't have to provide psychotherapy as a neuropsychologist, but you do need to demonstrate a basic level of proficiency in it by the end of your training. And for that matter, having some therapy skills is useful even in an assessment setting (for instance, giving difficult feedback, making treatment recommendations, etc.).

I'm not at all surprised that Argosy has been friendly toward you - they are a for-profit institution and have a relatively weak reputation in the field. Their graduates are not very competitive for subspecialty fellowships such as those required for neuropsychology. They are simply lying to you re: the funding situation. It's amazing what they and their ilk can get away with, really despicable TBH. Especially for someone looking to enter a field as competitive as neuropsychology, I would not recommend giving Argosy so much as a second look.

I would look instead to university-based or medical school-based programs that have small cohorts. This will narrow your options to a number of PhD programs but a relatively smaller number of PsyD programs. You might look at the Ph.D. offered by the University of Texas Southwestern medical school, which offers good training in neuropsychology and is a slightly shorter program than most (this is rare among quality programs): http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/education/graduate-school/programs/phd-degrees/clinical-psychology/.

The decision to pursue a clinical versus non-clinical degree should not be taken lightly. If you pursue a degree in cognitive neuroscience (not cognitive neuropsychology) it would be important to choose a strong (read: competitive) academic program and work hard to have a shot at a tenure track college or uni job, for which the competition is even more cutthroat. Not much time for the beach!

 

[WisNeuro]

Stay away from Argosy. Everywhere I have been (3VAs, 1 non-profit system) have summarily rejected neuro applicants from the Argosy programs outright for internship and postdoc apps. It's just not worth it financially and having multiple doors closed to you in the training process.

 

[CaptainCognition]

Thanks for your replies, I realise now that Argosy and Alliant are not authentic reputable courses.
I am in touch with Loma Linda who seem to have a neuropsychology track - and could potentially fund me for the program. That UTSW course looks really good - only thing is the deadline has passed. I would love to start something Fall '18. However, it has crossed my mind I may need to wait it out until the following year.
So I get the impression finding work in academia is more difficult than in a clinical setting?
That UTSW phd is rare in that it prepares you as a clinical psychologist and researcher. Any more like that?

 

[Kadhir]

... I guess my dream is to study and work in an area like California or Florida, somewhere nice and warm! ... helping students and hitting the beach all the time!

Lol. I won't knock you down. Everyone should have some interest in their own QOL, but even in those places, be prepared to work. Hard. I don't think those UCSD kids are hitting the beach routinely. In the end, your research interests should dictate where you go if you are aiming for a reputable, mentor-based clinical PhD program with funding.

That UTSW phd is rare in that it prepares you as a clinical psychologist and researcher. Any more like that?

It is rare in its setup... a captive internship, more clinically focused than your traditional clinical PhD. It is NOT rare in preparing you for both practice and research. All PhD programs should be doing that. I would carefully consider schools like UTSW (Northwestern is another that comes to mind) if funding is a primary concern... these are located within medical schools and do not follow the same model as psych departments (read: they're typically not fully funded... there are other threads about this).

 

[Kadhir]

But I'm in my early 40s now and eager to make something happen out of all this psychology work so considering all options.

Also, make sure you consider how long this road will take for you and where you want to be, professionally and personally in the next decade. Absolutely, anyone has the right the pursue anything at any age. But this path is arduous even in your 20s and 30s, so make sure you've really gone through all your options to have an enriching career before jumping into the clinical psych PhD pool. Maybe not such a big deal deadlines have passed this year. Do your due diligence, and if it's still something you want, all the best to you.

 

[deleted343839]

That UTSW course looks really good - only thing is the deadline has passed. I would love to start something Fall '18. However, it has crossed my mind I may need to wait it out until the following year.

Most deadlines for clinical programs seem to fall in December. If you haven't yet taken the GRE or secured strong letters of recommendation, you would most likely need to wait until next year.

One thing to look for on every program's web site is a link usually called "Student Admission, Outcomes, and Other Data." In one of the tables is a line titled "Students who obtained APA/CPA accredited internship." This is a critical piece of outcome data. I recommend that you choose a program that averages >85%+ in this category. Not obtaining an APA or CPA accredited internship will make licensure more difficult and will limit your job opportunities.

So I get the impression finding work in academia is more difficult than in a clinical setting?

That is a fair assumption. Some clinical jobs also offer protected time for research or teaching, and these tend to be more competitive. A tenure-track uni job is probably the most competitive position in the field.

That UTSW phd is rare in that it prepares you as a clinical psychologist and researcher. Any more like that?

No, not at all! Any clinical psychology program worth its salt will train you in both research and clinical practice. Programs vary in the extent to which they emphasize these roles. Some are more clinically focused, some are pretty balanced or flexible depending on trainees' interests, and some are more heavily research focused. But they all provide some degree of training in both areas.